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Underage model? in Photography Talk
I completely agree with Chanel. I shoot minors all the time and that's usually how it goes. Check out my younger models page of website: http://falaterphotography.com/Photograp … /index.htm
Fri Nov 26 10:39 2010 in reply to Chanel Rene
Repeated threads... in Off-Topic Discussion
another: Hi I'm new=) (always with the smiley face) or: why comment for comment on main page? shooting minors? or (in the digital art section): Help me with this photo! or (in the general feedback): Which to keep? or (in the hair and make up): which product? or (in the photography) your opinion on AB?
Sun Nov 7 22:15 2010 in reply to marissa charles
Can your escort wait in the car? in General Industry
Obviously. That's part of the problem. You care nothing of other's perspectives, other than your own. I'm sorry if you don't see it, but if I have a choice of believing the countless photographers, models, industry professionals, and lawyers in regards to shooting minors, or believing an 18 yr old model who works with a lot of carefree shooters...I know who I believe. Peace out.
Thu Nov 4 00:04 2010 in reply to emleighdee
Repeated threads... in Off-Topic Discussion
Canon vs Nikon Shooting Minors Model Releases I have a legal question Filters on DSLR
Wed Nov 3 06:39 2010 in reply to marissa charles
Would I use my Polaroid film on you? in Fun and Games
I'd probably say no just because of you age. I'm not planning on shooting minors. But you're adorable and have really nice energy in front of the camera. [img]http://modelmayhm-7.vo.llnwd.net/d1/photos/101015/13/4cb8b5d72a57e_m.jpg[/img] Let me know when you're 18?
Mon Oct 18 14:32 2010 in reply to Randi Bennett
Shooting Minor - No Implied Though! ??? in General Industry
plus ONE. I shoot minors all the time. No problem and no big deal.
Mon Oct 11 22:37 2010 in reply to Mike Kelcher
Shooting Minor - No Implied Though! ??? in General Industry
Generally, the only issue with shooting minors is the use of the pictures. If you plan on using them in your port, it's good to get a release signed by the parent/gaurdian. If you plan on publishing them, that would be mandatory. Otherwise, make it a fun day.
Sat Oct 9 10:37 2010 in reply to JoeFong
Children and preteen modeling portfolios in Photography Talk
I personally don't shoot minors, not worth the headaches to me.
Tue Sep 21 19:08 2010 in reply to Jay Lee Studios
Photographing Models (-18) in Photography Talk
If you do a search, you'll find 100's of threads on this subject. I've shot several under 18 girls, shot a 15 year old just this past Saturday. Signed release, and her mother was in the room the entire time. Nothing sexy, more like senior picture type stuff. I think the whole shooting minor thing is common sense. If your the slightest bit worried about what your doing could get you in trouble.......don't do it. Couldn't be more simple.
Mon Sep 20 00:34 2010 in reply to BOYWITHCAMERA
I shoot minors all the time.
Sun Aug 29 07:56 2010 in reply to Dan Gregory Photography
I shoot minors all the time. Sometimes without guardian present. If I need a release, I can get their guardian to sign one, or I can wait until they turn 18 and they can sign for themselves. Generally, teens perform better when their parents are not watching. Thus, I prefer not to have parents around or keep them in a separate room.
Sun Aug 29 07:52 2010 in reply to Dan Gregory Photography
I shoot minors quite often. I also have had legal advice on what precautions to take.
Sat Aug 28 01:54 2010 in reply to Dan Gregory Photography
Model Release Forms? in Photography Talk
Well, as for shooting minors, I do quite often because all of my friends are under eighteen. I would feel weird about asking them to sign releases, though, especially if the photos are casual. But I suppose it's better to be safe. Can I be sued for posting photos of someone online without a release?
Sat Aug 14 07:50 2010 in reply to Gaze at Photography
15 yr old model in a TF in Photography Talk
+1 Shooting minors alone = Possible major offense
Sat Jul 24 19:07 2010 in reply to Brian Baybo
17 Implied nudes in Model Colloquy
First, OP you are very beautiful and should have a great future ahead of you in modeling or a related field; don't worry about corporate employers down the road at this point in your life. As someone on here observed, you are actually over the age of consent in your country, so there can be nothing except busy bodies objecting. Secondly, don't mean to hijack the thread, but this might give perspective to the discussion: being in the US I've been very careful over the past ten years, and even avoided shooting minors at all for a while. Then, I realized that an enterprising prosecutor or cop can make trouble for me WHATEVER I do, photographically or otherwise. So I've chosen to apply common sense and enjoy making art. Young models are sometimes the most fun to work with, and as long as a parent is there and approves, I'm good. If I get hassled, I probably would have been anyway. Same with the OP: know the law in your area, and stay within it, and ignore the clucking from people who don't know better. It's your life, enjoy it.
Sat Jul 17 10:31 2010 in reply to AJ_In_Atlanta
Do you have any thoughts as to when it would not be OK to shoot minors in public places? Both morally/socially and legally.
Thu Jul 8 09:02 2010 in reply to Fotographia Fantastique
Opinion/Personal Business Practice: We always have a parent or legal guardian present when we shoot minors, even senior pictures, and a release/permission form is always required from the parents or legal guardians before hand. No exceptions, no complications, no problems for us! Mike
Thu Jul 8 07:38 2010 in reply to Photons 2 Pixels Images
OK, in relation to THIS THREAD which was locked, the OP was encouraged to start another on the same topic. I haven't seen it, so I'm starting one. There seems to be paranoia and confusion when it comes to shooting minors. Photographers should know their rights, whether they choose to exercise them or not. I know many of you have opinions on this subject, which is good. Let's try to keep this on course and stick to a format for discussion. If you have an opinion to share, please preface it with OPINION and if you have something legal on the subject to share, please preface it with LEGAL and cite the associated law/code. If you think it's a law but can't find the relevant cite, please indicate this as well. Also, if you are posting about customs, opinions, and/or laws that are based in a country other than the U.S.A, please indicate this as well. Opinions can be universal, obviously, so you need only indicate this if it's a prevailing opinion in your country but maybe not others. EDIT: I don't want to turn this into a discussion of child pornography or anything even close. For purposes of this discussion, let's assume that the photographs we're talking about do not fall into that category. Thank you.
Thu Jul 8 07:08 2010
Do most photographers require proof of age? in Model Colloquy
And, I don't shoot minors, even for fashion or portrait work.
Sun Jul 4 22:54 2010 in reply to Henri3
Minor model photography - advise request in Photography Talk
I only shoot minors with a parent or guardian present.
Tue Jun 29 12:23 2010 in reply to StrawberryImages
Minor model photography - advise request in Photography Talk
I personally will not shoot minors without parent present ever!!
Tue Jun 29 08:18 2010 in reply to StrawberryImages
Seriously? I don't see the connection. Personally, I think the people running around crying "perv" are the ones with the issue. I don't shoot minors in glamour style but that's simply a practical decision. Morally I think it’s a non-issue.
Fri Jun 25 19:14 2010 in reply to Swank Photography
shooting minors nude is not illegal...omg...
Fri Jun 25 10:51 2010 in reply to Swanson Studios
yeah better play it safe huh? do you know how many artists have gone to jail, because they wouldn't compromise their art? artists have had to push the envelope since the middle ages...i'm not just talking about shooting minors, im talking about social statements... at one time, artists were executed for portraying christ in perspective, in a painting.. geeze its to the point where cops are arresting people for taking legal perfectly legal photographs in public.... well ill tell you one thing..the cops and government should be afraid of the people, not the other way around... our founding fathers must be spinning in their graves....we dont deserve our own constitution...no wait, i do, cause im willing to fight for it....
Fri Jun 25 10:34 2010 in reply to Swanson Studios
This is why I don't shoot minors also.
Thu Jun 24 10:23 2010 in reply to Barrett Graphics
+1. But that isn't what I want to do, just a good point. Let me repeat. Shooting minors in highly sexual situations is not my intention as a photographer.
Thu Jun 24 09:32 2010 in reply to mErocrush
The truth is, high fashion photographers shoot minors in highly sexual situations every day. I don't know why everyone is pretending that's not the case.
Thu Jun 24 09:24 2010 in reply to Josh McCaghren
Why me is it something in my profile? rant! in Photography Talk
Wow...one of the reasons I don't shoot minors. haha
Fri Jun 18 14:25 2010 in reply to ontherocks
List of underage model (so 16-17 for MM) in General Industry
[img]http://modelmayhm-7.vo.llnwd.net/d1/photos/100101/22/4b3ee27a6789b_m.jpg[/img] Yes this is only one of the advantage available. I hope this topic became a reference for everyone interest on shooting minor.
Wed Jun 16 22:53 2010 in reply to D M E C K E R T
List of underage model (so 16-17 for MM) in General Industry
[img]http://modelmayhm-7.vo.llnwd.net/d1/photos/100526/05/4bfd1a60a90bc_m.jpg[/img] [img]http://modelmayhm-6.vo.llnwd.net/d1/photos/100525/15/4bfc52ad6688b_m.jpg[/img] [img]http://modelmayhm-8.vo.llnwd.net/d1/photos/100525/14/4bfc4309774de_m.jpg[/img] [img]http://modelmayhm-6.vo.llnwd.net/d1/photos/100613/19/4c15934020286_m.jpg[/img] There are many models with potentiality. I believe that even those who prefer don't shoot minors perhaps some could change mind giving a bit of visibility at these models.
Tue Jun 15 03:42 2010
Photographer asked me to bring an escort... in General Industry
Does this have anything to do with shooting minors in the nude or pissing off nuns? As for having the model bring an escort- fuck that noise. If the model is going to lie, the person they brought along will back THEM up not you. Then its two against one. I have an assistant who I prefer to work with. I've done lots of shots one-on-one with the model as well and its worked out fine.
Thu Jun 10 09:54 2010 in reply to -Koa-
Not wanting to speculate on why. I shoot minors when they fit the casting.
Mon Jun 7 18:26 2010 in reply to VanessaNicole
Bill, Your experience with shooting minors is much like mine!
Sun Jun 6 14:35 2010 in reply to Bill Mason Photography
That's fine then. I'm in Grand Rapids and will gladly take money to shoot minors if you don't want it. Honestly, I'm laughing at the raw paranoia in this thread. Don't you people understand- YOU are helping make things worse with those attitudes!
Sun Jun 6 13:30 2010 in reply to Brian Douglas Ahern
I've been shooting minors since way before the Internet came to be. Wish you were here!
Sat Jun 5 18:25 2010 in reply to VanessaNicole
Liability issues. Someone under the age of 18 cannot sign a legally binding contract, and usually require an escort, which some photographers don't allow. It's illegal to shoot minors in sexual ways, and lots of photographers enjoy doing nude/lingerie/glamour photography. Also, maturity issues.
Sat Jun 5 17:48 2010 in reply to VanessaNicole
Model contacted me for nudes, 17 years old... in General Industry
Not being funny but he's probably busy shooting minors tongue
Fri May 14 18:25 2010 in reply to ClickMore
Implied with 17yo in Model Colloquy
Personally, I don't shoot minors simply because it's a sticky situation. Morally, I don't see anything wrong with it... And even the laws are generally on your side as long as it's not sexual in nature. But when it comes down to it, much of society is very conservative, and all it takes is one person getting offended for you to be in a world of hurt. I play better safe than sorry... YMMV.
Fri May 14 17:57 2010 in reply to DMesser Photography
Implied with 17yo in Model Colloquy
Which is why, the smart ones here say "jut don't do it." It also doesn't change the fact that, there is at least some forms of nudity, which will not be illegal. The problem is drawing the line in the sand, which is why shooting minors in the nude is crazy.
Thu May 13 15:48 2010 in reply to House of Thailand
Naked Minors in General Industry
So say something in writing. Something like "I don't shoot minors nude (in lingerie, whatever)".
Tue May 11 13:32 2010 in reply to John Jebbia
What is a photographers NIGHTMARE? in Newbie Forum
ahh my studio is in my home too, so i dont shoot minors in my studio, but i dont see the problem going on location with them, do you?
Thu Apr 15 20:04 2010 in reply to E Martin Photo
Making young models feel comfortable in Photography Talk
common sense is having a parent or guardian or witness present when shooting minors. I guess common sense doesn't exist in your part of Canada?
Sun Apr 11 11:05 2010 in reply to LinguaDentata
I has teh new peektures. in SF2
......there's a legal way to shoot minors, right? RIGHT???? Morgan, these may be your best work so far. Very impressed.
Thu Apr 1 15:52 2010 in reply to M A B
looking for models over 21? in General Industry
Age doesn't mean anything to me, it's more the way the model can look. Leaving age limits out, you can be surprized what you can find here. I never shoot minors though, must be 18-up. Paul
Thu Mar 18 09:11 2010 in reply to Raccoon Carobtree
17 and nude. in Model Colloquy
just don't shoot minors at all, unless you are doing a good business in senior portraits its just not worth the hassle. It really doesn't matter what they are wearing or not wearing, just wait 10 mo. and its a non-issue. Maybe its my middle age talking, but whats the big deal over 10 mo, or even a whole year, it goes by way too fast to worry about it.
Wed Mar 17 15:17 2010 in reply to bd michaels studio
Shooting in the Nude in Photography Talk
Donnie shoots minors without their pants on? Tsk tsk.
Sun Mar 14 07:40 2010 in reply to Greg Easton Photography
Photographer needs Driver's License # in Model Colloquy
Can anyone, anyone at all, post a link to a law that requires valid ID for nudity, per se (with the sole exception of work that falls under 2257)? Given that you can legally shoot minors nude, I won't be holding my breath :-)
Fri Mar 5 19:09 2010 in reply to allison mindy
Safety when shooting minors in Photography Talk
I don't shoot minors for any reason, whatsoever, without the parent's signature on the release, and a parent-(and another witness for myself)- present the whole time.
Thu Mar 4 18:51 2010 in reply to James Snaps
15 year old implied topless.. What would you do??? in Photography Talk
This is not a good deal at all.....young models need to realize although they want to be all the way into the Modeling Industry they need to wait like everyone else. You open up a lot of negativity if you choose to shoot minors in implied or nudes..
Mon Feb 22 08:59 2010 in reply to ADB-Fotografie
17 year model 18 year old escort !!! in Photography Talk
The person who asked why you need a release does have a point. A release is necessary when you want to publish work in connection with goods or services (ie, commercial usage). The publisher requires the release. As to shooting minors, whether commercial or not, check on your state laws.
Thu Feb 18 16:00 2010 in reply to SF glamour
first time nude shoot in Model Colloquy
Yes, I know shooting minors nude isn't illegal.
Wed Jan 6 12:57 2010 in reply to _Siobhan_
Ok Question.... in Model Colloquy
Oh this has always been my favorite rant. So here is where you see the Jail-house lawyers come out of the woodwork telling you what is legal and not legal... Then tell you how people need to pull their heads out... Those are the ones that scare me. Suggestive is what ever you find to be and where do we draw the line? When your door gets knocked in and hauled away to jail. It is the world we live in, and more-so will continue to live in. I don't like it, I hate it, but that is me. Drawing the line can only happen from within but there will always be those who don't care about a line... My stance? Make shooting minors more difficult and hope for the best. Reality, more Chester's will buy more cameras. (My opinion, don't like it, too bad)
Wed Dec 23 21:57 2009 in reply to Sarah Slaykitty
FBI Called Me Today... in Model Colloquy
This is a bit frightening to me, since I am in that part of the state. Luckily I too require photo id from all my models, and I am not in the habit of shooting minors to avoid scenarios just like this one. If you are willing to share the model in question Jake, feel free to send me a PM. Good luck, and I hope everything works out without further complications. I love your style and have long admired your work even though I am no where near that "level." Kevin
Tue Dec 22 18:55 2009 in reply to Jake Garn
On approaching minors, for modelling.... in General Industry
Do they stop being "crazy" on their 18th birthday? Even though it's kinda pathetic, I don't shoot minors without someone else there, usually a parent. I did talk with one 18 year old model who had been pushed into doing nudes, *by her mother.*
Fri Dec 11 22:04 2009 in reply to alexphotog
Question if a model release is needed, plz help!! in Photography Talk
It's not against the law to shoot minors without parental consent (as far as I know) and I was not trying to state that it was. I was only pointing out that just because the law does not require a release (OP's question) that he may still wish to seek parental consent. Law may not REQUIRE him to have it, but some people get pretty upset about "some photographer" taking pictures of their precious children without their consent and I can live without any of that kind of drama. Legal or not.
Mon Nov 30 09:20 2009 in reply to GM Photography
parental consent? i am so thoroughly confused in Model Colloquy
This is sadly funny. Just like in the "is it legal to shoot minors nude?" threads, people are throwing around a dozen different interpretations of what they think the law should day, what uncle joe's weekend card buddy told them it says, or what they read somewhere sometime and maybe might remember correctly, but no one has cited the actual law in the state where the OP resides. Contract law varies from state to state. The OP is in California. I don't have time to research it, but the State of California has their laws on-line. Why not try there? http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/calaw.html
Sun Oct 11 09:04 2009 in reply to Kate Cooper
16 and 17 year olds "I Don't Do Nudes" in Model Colloquy
I'm confused - perhaps its the late hour or my old brain is fried. Is it or is it not legal to photograph someone under 18 in the nude? Or is there no simple law to answer this question. N.B. I have not and do not shoot minors nude, semi-nude, implied nude or any other form of nude. REPEAT I do NOT.
Sat Oct 10 22:04 2009 in reply to Extreme Body Art
Can I photograph a 17 year old without parent? in General Industry
AMEN! I shoot minors all the time without discussing it with their parents. They just understand that the clothes stay on, must be age appropriate and we're all good. As stated, they cant sign a release, but they do have cash! Now if the photos were that good, then contact mommy and have her sign one so you have a parents consent to use them. In the mean time, nothing wrong with making an honest dollar.
Mon Oct 5 08:28 2009 in reply to Doug Lester
Man arrested for painting & shooting 7 year old in Off-Topic Discussion
I responded directlly to the comment that there is no difference between shooting minor children in a studio setting... The comment I made is directly relevant.
Fri Oct 2 00:58 2009 in reply to Danger Ninja Production
So a 17-year old wants to shoot with me in General Industry
Tested - really. How much does it cost to be the one doing the testing or being tested? Here is an excellent example of what could happen to lots of parents and photographers. http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/arizona-coupl … id=8624533 A quick google search will find you all sorts of cases where photographers have been charged with all sorts of things only to be exonerated later. In fact, there is not need to even go so far as google. You can search the MM forums and find all sorts of cases where photographers have had legal dealings - even when they were in the right. You've put words in my mouth. At no point did I make any implication of legal or illegal behavior. Nor, have I made any statement that shooting minors may or may not be illegal. What I have advocated is knowing the law and making and educated decision about what you do. And, if you want to know, go to the best source of information available. I'm pretty sure A.J. and Lisa Demaree wouldn't have taken their images to Wal Mart for processing had they been aware of the legal risks they were taking. While ultimately, they were acquited, the personal and financial cost have been devastating. You don't have to be wrong, someone just has to make the claim. My advice to the OP remains that IF he wants a legal opinion, he ought to visit his attorney rather than relying on the information in a mm forum. You're advice seems to be that this isn't a case where the OP should consult with his attorney. His common sense and MM forums discussions are sufficient. One of the great things about this country is that we can disagree.
Wed Sep 30 22:09 2009 in reply to CGI Images
Lol, to call my prerogative narrow minded, that's narrow minded. I guess to me, growing up as a model from 14 wouldn't be ideal. There is too much to learn and lessons that needed to be acquired first, your lucky the nature of the business didn't harm you then. I don't shoot minors. Sorry if I offended you. I didn't say I was against it.
Sat Sep 19 22:03 2009 in reply to Alisyn Carliene
Shooting minors is a waste of tie unless agency signed, or you know them.
Sat Sep 19 20:47 2009 in reply to AlphaPhotoandvideo
Without the smart ass remark.. Anyways. I wouldn't do it. I don't shoot minors, and if I did.. you need protection from them being present.
Fri Sep 18 23:13 2009 in reply to PYPI FASHION
Shooting minors is no big deal. I have been modeling since I was 13 and it really isn't that much of an issue, or at least it never has been for me.
Fri Sep 18 23:08 2009 in reply to AlphaPhotoandvideo
How a photog works with a model under 18 in General Industry
The OP indicated later in the thread that she is actually only interested in the legalities of shooting minors. She should probably edit the opening post.
Wed Sep 16 10:07 2009 in reply to Sophie Edwina
nudity and children - deja vu all over again in Photography Talk
This has happened time and time again. I think a child molester is the lowest form of a human, but things like this make me shake my head. What parent does not have a picture of their kids playing in the bath? Be careful when shooting minors folks!
Sun Sep 13 16:01 2009 in reply to AVD AlphaDuctions
Asking for Proof of Age in General Industry
I have a place on my model release for age and I always ask for photo ID, most states require you to carry one, when shooting minors I usually have a parent present !
Wed Sep 9 16:36 2009 in reply to Rohrvision Photography
Photographers bringing escorts? in Off-Topic Discussion
I'm not worried about losing stuff. Ironically the only time I've had a camera stolen was at an apartment complex community room where a security guard was supposed to keep an eye on things. I would worry more about false accusations in this day and age. For us male photographers, it's absolutely wonderful to have a female assistant working closely with the teenaged female models. There is one assistant I miss greatly. She was a model, professional make up artist, and trained ballet dancer. Her name was Ava, and she was very important to have with me when shooting minor aged girls for their actor and model portfolios. Ava and I worked like a team. But she moved away to go to nursing school in Oregon or Washington. By now, she has probably married a doctor and raising a family?
Fri Jul 31 10:23 2009 in reply to Divo Models
Taboo Subject? in General Industry
Mostly because as diverse as each profile and portfolio is...the opinions expressed within the forum is also just as diverse (and sometimes rather heated too, which is why if you scoot down to the lower right part of the forum, you'll see what is known as the "brig" list...click on that and you'll get an eyeful of just who has the strongest opinions and who likes to exercise their "freedom of speech" quite often LOL! I've been here just over a year now and truthfully when I see threads like "Escorts", "shooting minors nude", etc. I just roll my eyes and keep looking (elsewhere) to see if anything is funny enough or worthwhile enough for me to pop in and make a post on. It's like over in the "Soapbox" section of the forum...you want to see some heated banter and adults having snit fits...trying poking around in that for a few minutes (but word of caution here, if you post in there, you could be "shark bait" because some mighty big sharks roam freely throughout there and they have razor sharp teeth that can cut through your hard drive to get at you LOL!). You know you are new here...chances are you'll make one or two posts that might get your ass chomped on by several and in turn you'll chomp others as well. But wear your battle wounds with pride and keep plugging away with posts! LOL! Good luck Sue Swank Photography http://www.swank-photography.com
Wed Jul 29 02:42 2009 in reply to PBK Photography
Taboo Subject? in General Industry
Well, when it comes to shooting minors, Pedobear always gives his seal of approval.
Wed Jul 29 01:58 2009 in reply to PBK Photography
Model 3 months from her 18th birthday...nudes? in General Industry
Agree. The martyr best be someone who clearly was not shooting minors nude but got snared by 2257 regardless, which will go much further to expose the injustice. There is no defense for actually doing what 2257 claims to prevent.
Fri Jul 24 08:34 2009 in reply to Starburst Photography
Get Nekid or Get Lost! in General Industry
You misread it. Because I shoot minors who cannot disrobe, I see no reason to tell the 18 y/o she has to due to her age. So the field is level and they rules are the same. Just because you legally can, doesnt mean I'm going to take advantage of it
Thu Jul 23 22:12 2009 in reply to Swank Photography
Get Nekid or Get Lost! in General Industry
OP...its NOT okay to shoot minors nekkid...Your reasoning, as stated above, is not excusable by any means. Its disgusting. EDIT: just read your response. sorry
Thu Jul 23 22:12 2009 in reply to PBK Photography
Contacted by underage model: Disturbing in General Industry
Thats logical if they dont mix business like that, that makes sense. Saying many pro's dont shoot minors simply because of age doesnt. I dont put my bondage shots on the same web port as my high school sports shots either.. its a business decision not an age based one.
Sat Jul 4 17:37 2009 in reply to nexiste plus
Under 18 shoot in Newbie Forum
QFT. Not to mention all the automated photo booths at the malls, wonder how many of them have had to explain themselves to a judge? Shooting "minors" is a HUGE percentage of the retail photography business, to act like there is some "risk" in that requires a lawyers help is silly at the least.
Sat Jul 4 10:40 2009 in reply to Lumigraphics
working with minors... in Photography Talk
As you can see, and as you no doubt know, shooting minors in the nude (legal or illegal) is fraught with risk. It might not be illegal were you are from, but in all seriousness do you want to have to potentially go through all the shit that comes with it to find out? Look at it like this. If one of those "citizens with concerns" does report you (legal or not) the police are going to come and they are most likely going to take you to the station. They are going to question you and based on the outcome of that they will either release you or arrest you. Oh and if you are arrested, its going to cost you crap loads on lawyers to find out you were innocent. Personally, I say fk that, its not worth it. John
Wed Jul 1 14:24 2009 in reply to D P P I X
I dont know about you Doug, but that is the mentality that would make me look at someone twice in this topic. The "I can only think of one reason in my head why someone would take a picture of an 8yr old naked" Ummmm... Stay away from my 8yr old please, comes to mind.The point was, this question has been ask numerous times before. WHY? What is the interest in shooting minors without clothes? It just strikes me as strange that there is ALWAYS someone seeking validation in doing something that some societies say is taboo. When someone asks "when can I" "why can't I". I begin to think the worst of their intentions.
Sun Jun 21 08:43 2009 in reply to CGI Images
so then by using that standard, its illegal to shoot minors at all...clothed or unclothed... geeze... were all in a heap of trouble...
Fri Jun 19 22:38 2009 in reply to Swank Photography
NUDE MODELLING- age in CALIFORNIA in Newbie Forum
Kymberly, I do not recall the OP even asking to shoot minors in suggestive manners..... I understand where you are coming from, but the OP only asked what the legal age is
Thu Jun 18 04:20 2009 in reply to Kymberly Jane
NUDE MODELLING- age in CALIFORNIA in Newbie Forum
:sigh: THIS IS WRONG INFORMATION. Google the following to see just how wrong: Sally Mann David Hamilton Jock Sturgis Dost Test 18USC2256 Alessandra's Smile Note that I am not endorsing the idea of shooting minors nude. It is still legally risky and nude images of models under 18 are not allowed on MM, regardless of legality.
Thu Jun 18 01:35 2009 in reply to Kymberly Jane
Escort wants to leave.... in Photography Talk
I don't shoot minors for that reason (but on a seperate note) as stated above - I wish escorts would leave lol...
Wed May 13 09:04 2009 in reply to ShadowBox Studio Photos
Shooting pictures of minors in Newbie Forum
choo choo trainwreck personally, i just opt out of shooting minors, the bodies are a pain to hide.
Tue Apr 28 15:24 2009 in reply to PhotSam
Photographers and younger people in Model Colloquy
Obviously, not at the same place as you do. If the act that I protect myself while shooting minors with model releases signed by their parents (which takes very little effort) means that I believe in aliens and Bigfoot, you just gave me the biggest laugh of the day. The same people that claim to know "the facts", or have "industry standard" information don't seem to be able to provide links to documentation to support their "facts". So, in the presence of the information that I have, and the opinions of those that I have consulted with, and those that I have asked, I will continue to protect myself in a way that I see fit. I hope that answers your question.
Fri Apr 10 20:04 2009
Photographers and younger people in Model Colloquy
Yes, we do. Those that do not can roll the dice, and take their chances. I'm not going to compromise my comfort level because somebody says "Dude, shooting minors is not a big deal".
Fri Apr 10 16:37 2009
Group Shoot Albion, MI- Possibly August in Events
I say leave it 18+ as many photographers wont shoot minors unless a parent accompanies them to sign the release. I'd be interested in attending.
Thu Apr 9 20:46 2009
Do you need parent's signature when working TFCD in General Industry
I can't speak to the laws that may relate to shooting minors for given purposes in various states. However, I think the idea that the issues of release are tied more to the type of compensation than image use is an idea that is going to cause you problems.
Sat Apr 4 14:10 2009
16 year olds doing Pin-up work in Model Colloquy
Legally speaking I suspect you don't have a clue what you are talking about, But that is just my opinion. And I suspect you don't really grasp what the range of "pin up" is... but that's another issue as well. So how about you stop spreading the manure? If you are not comfortable shooting minors that's fine, If you want to say you don't think it's a good idea that's fine. but child porn??? Good god... give it a break.
Mon Mar 30 08:29 2009
How come photographers won't work with me? in General Feedback
Unfortunately these points are a very strong reason. Even worse, is that people still believe the crap about shooting minors. I do all the time and have NEVER had an issue. Probably because I'm NOT worried about there being an issue. Heck, my avatar is 17. Amazingly, I'm not posting this from the county or state jail.. However, as many have said, age is probably the biggest issue. But also as someone mentioned, might be a good idea to hire a photographer and MUA and show the world what you can do.
Fri Mar 27 20:55 2009
True. My point was that this woman's life was ruined because of a FALSE CLAIM that she was shooting minors nude.
Fri Mar 27 19:46 2009 in reply to unknown
On "minors" and "18" in General Industry
How do stat rape laws apply to photography? Are you just using that as an example of how laws and their legal interpretations can change? And if so, again. I'd still say trouble is highly UN-likely when it comes to shooting minors in a legal professional fashion.
Sat Mar 21 14:07 2009
On "minors" and "18" in General Industry
Well put Doug, its the complete lack of logic some people interject into this topic that gets me so agitated. Often its just a matter of opening their eyes and looking around themselves during everyday life that would prove what they put out there as fact is completely obviously false. There are hundreds of thousands of Senior Portrait photographers that make a living shooting "minors" 99.9% of them never have an issue. And I've seen many pretty "sexy" senior portraits.
Fri Mar 20 19:59 2009
Photography Myths. in Photography Talk
72 dpi. You need experience and a good portfolio to be considered for a fashion agency. It's illegal to shoot minors nude. America's Next Top Model You own the copyright so you can do whatever you want with the pictures. Copyright always belongs to the photographer. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. Use 32 mb memory cards. Your work is awesome.
Tue Feb 24 11:28 2009
Photography Law Question in Photography Talk
See but earlier you've also said: Which to me implies that the model was under 18 otherwise why is a guardian present and why would a friend bring it up? Thinking on it more I believe in the UK and probably in the US (but I'm not a lawyer so don't quote me) that the police could seize your equipment if they have a "reasonable suspicion" that you could have child pornography. Could this image and a phone call from a concerned parent of that "friend" be reasonable suspicion? I don't know but maybe. If someone was to take your hard drive now how many pictures of young girls that are either nude or near nude are there and do you have documented proof to say that each of them are over 18? How long would they have your camera and computer gear until they're happy that there is nothing untoward going on? This is why model releases are so important. I see a lot of photographers say they won't shoot minors period and I think it's the wise choice.
Mon Feb 23 16:40 2009
underage nudes and the law in Photography Talk
One voice is not enough. The African Americans were criminalized for being black until a million of them marched on Washington and fought for their rights. When a million photogs are ready to shoot minors nude and post them proudly I will promise to be right there with them (even though my photography sucks lol) and make my voice heard (cant arrest us all lol).......dont hold your breath haha
Sat Feb 7 17:51 2009
Legalities, Being a Minor, and General Ignorance in Model Colloquy
this might be way off base but ill put it out there the worlds in a funny place when shooting minors (whether they are in your legal situation or not) one has to be careful what is being shot and how they go about it that being said - "lolita-anything" and being under the age of consent might be causing some concern given the connotation the term lolita solicits maybe a name change im not suggesting that theres anything wrong with the name or what youre doing (port looks fine) but it may steer some people clear (if your not getting the requests you wished via MM) but again thats just me and my observation - one has to tred lightly these days
Mon Jan 5 19:19 2009
Shooting without a parent around.. in General Industry
OP... This thread has a lot of misinformation. I'll try to sort out the fact from fiction for you. 1. It's not illegal for photographers to photograph minors with or without the presence, or consent of their parents or guardians, in any state in the US, with the possible exception of ... under certain circumstances... Oregon. This is always something that is subject to change as laws change. 2. Because many people will sue someone if the opportunity arises, most photographers will require a release. Release forms vary in their wording and many are poorly written. Essentially, though, the release boils down to a model giving a photographer permission to do various things with the images of the model. Because the signature of minor isn't legally good enough to protect the photographers from litigation, a wise photographer will require that a parent or guardian sign the release. 3. Release forms can be signed at anytime before or after a shoot. Since there is no such thing as a 'standard model release", models would be wise to ask photographers requiring a release to send it to them in advance of a shoot, so that the model and/or parent or guardian can see (in advance of a shoot), exactly what rights and permissions the model is giving to the photographer. Minors never need to sign releases...but there's nothing wrong with them doing so. 4. There is usually no need for a release for a shoot that is conducted in public place....like outside. There's probably some exceptions, so wise photographers simply cover their butts by getting one. 5. The reason some photographers feel a need to have another person present varies. Some aren't even sure why they require it, they just do. If a model claims that while the two were alone when the photographer touched them inappropriately, or raped them, it becomes one person's word against that of another...unless another person is present as a witness. (more on this below). Being a minor or an adult model doesn't matter since the alleged crime would be serious either way. I never understood why it is that photographers feel a need to have another person present for a shoot with a minor, and not with an adult model and such a requirement borders on age discrimination. I know of one instance where a photographer shot a high school senior portrait of a 17 year old girl. Somehow he felt comfortable if she brought a friend. The two minors accused the photographer of touching one girl inappropriately, and the two ruined his reputation and business in the hopes of somehow making a lot of money from a lawsuit. After about a year, friends of the two girls came forth and reported to police that they learned from the two girls that the entire story was made up and planned in advance of the shoot. The criminal and civil cases were both dismissed, but the photographer lost a business that grossed almost $600K a year. If I were afraid of a model making a planned assault on my business, the third person in the room would be one of my choosing. I don't worry about such things. 6. Regarding nudity. It is not illegal in any state (except Oregon), to photograph a minor, nude. There simply are no laws against it. However, the resulting photographs could be considered by some to be "pornography". Pornography has never been well defined from a legal perspective. One Supreme Court judge once admitted "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it." So, since pornography is not well defined, and moralities vary, it's very risky for photographers to photograph minors nude, with or without parental consent...because if it's considered to be "pornography" the photographer and the parents can be in deep crap. 7. Like JC Penney, K-Mart, Walmart, Glamour shots, and a myriad of brick and mortal national chains, who photograph minors with or without anyone else present, I'm not afraid of minors. I'll work with you. Jump on the Amtrak in Chicago and visit Minnesota. I'll pick you up at the Amtrak station here, with or without a parent, and we'll shoot. Or...if you have time on June 29th or 30th, July 1 or 2, I'll be in Chicago for the LATE ride (10,000 people on bikes riding thru Chicago for 25 miles at night)....and I'd be happy to photograph you by Buckingham fountain, the Lake, Grant Park and near the El...with or without a parent. I hope that helps. btw...I teach this kinda stuff in a course called, "The Business Side of Professional Photography".
Fri May 18 00:47 2012 in reply to Presley ONeil
Emancipated teenager in General Industry
It is interesting, to some degree, there is ambiguity as to what an emancipated minor can do, state to state. The laws have changed an evolved as well. In all states, if they are emancipated they can sign a release. I don't believe there is any state where they can buy cigarettes or alcohol. Other areas tend to be more confusing. In California, it used to be that an emancipated minor could shoot some forms of sexual nudes, where as a non-emancipated minor could not. Of course, that language also conflicted with federal law, particularly 18 USC 2256. California changed it. There are still some exceptions to what an emancipated minor can do, depending on state. In California, again by example, certain aspects of labor law change if a minor is emancipated. Until recently, if a minor was emancipated, you didn't always need a set teacher for some things. Now, with changes, sometimes you do, sometimes you don't. So, if we get away from signing releases, I agree with your point completely. I do shot minors and I solve the problem by treating an emancipated minor the same as one who is not. The only exception is that I allow them to sign their own release, so long as I have seen the actual decree. That eliminates any possibility of running afoul of the law by allowing them to do something that I should not. As I have said before, many people choose not to work with minors at all. I happen to shoot them, but I respect those who choose not to. The only exception I take is the suggestion that every shoot will become inappropriate. I have no issues shooting headshots or fashion. I've done plenty of swimwear shoots as well. I stay away from lingerie or any kind of nudity.
Tue Oct 23 11:49 2012 in reply to William Kious
Underage implied and lingerie in General Industry
Nude, Suggestive, Risque, Sexy, or Similar Photography of Minors Photography Talk > Need advice for underage shoot (Miley Cyrus/Vanity Fair-style) General Industry > Minors shooting lignerie? General Industry > Underage models. (“sexy” photos requested by model) General Industry > Suggested nudes (…of an underage model) General Industry > Underage Model (Suicide girl-style, 5+ pages) General Industry > Implied nude with minors? (5+ pages) General Industry > Photographing Nude Minors...... (5+ pages) General Industry > Under-age models & "implied" General Industry > Dilema..!! (Art nudes w/16 y/o model in UK) General Industry > What state in the US is underage... (…nude images acceptable?) (5+ pages) General Industry > Shooting a 16 y/o nude, but covered sparsely? (6 pages, locked) General">http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?threa … 63]General Industry > David Hamilton: How are his books legal? Model Matters > Underage models. How sexy is too sexy? Model Matters > Underage model nudity? (3+ pages) Model Matters > Underage models & glamour/pin-up/lingerie? Model Matters > Minors working implide Model Matters > Underage Lingerie Shooting Model Matters > how young is to young?? (“…sexy pics done hand bras…”) (3+ pages) Model Matters > Underage sister posing nude for pro photogs! (8+ pages) Photography Talk > Underage lingerie modeling (3+ pages) Photography Talk > Another Question about Minors!!! (Semi-nude) Photography Talk > Legal age to shoot nudes (3+ pages) Photography Talk > When I work with minors... (lingerie requested by parent) Photography Talk > isn't teen glamour illegal? (Trueteenbabes.com) (4+ pages) Photography Talk > Implied and underage model (7+ pages) Photography Talk > Am I being set up? (2+ pages) Photography Talk > Minors shooting nudes and fetish? Is this legal? Photography Talk > Shooting a minor in lingerie? General Industry > Underage Fashion Models posing Nude for Euro Vogue (5+ pages) Photography Talk > T Magazine & Paolo Roversi & Underage nudes State Laws regarding Child Pornography or Nudity (USA) State Child Pornography Statutes (PDF document) Federal Laws regarding Child Pornography (USA) All are part of Title 18 Part 1 Chapter 110 (Index) Note that nudity is not automatically included, and that clothed images can be included. 2251. Sexual exploitation of children § 2252. Certain activities relating to material involving the sexual exploitation of minors § 2252A. Certain activities relating to material constituting or containing child pornography § 2256. Definitions for chapter § 2257. Record keeping requirements It helps a lot if you: Understand the society under discussion. Understand the laws in that society. Understand the reasons for both of the above, and the penalties for violating either cultural norms or the law, while recognizing that the laws are not the same as the cultural mores. There are many instances where unlawful activities are widely accepted (e.g. speeding, changing lanes without signaling, tax evasion, copyright violations), and many instances where lawful activities are anathema (or are proclaimed to be anathema...) to many (e.g. adultery, adult pornography). This is an area where many peoples' beliefs are at odds with the law, yet many of them insist that There Is A Law, apparently because they feel there should be one. Certain kinds of photography of minors are unlawful--some clothed, and some unclothed. Certain kinds of photography of minors are lawful--some clothed, and some unclothed. Certain kinds of photography, even if 100% legal, may cause distress for other reasons.
Mon Jun 20 07:10 2011 in reply to Eyes Of The BHolder
Shooting pictures of minors in Newbie Forum
You will hear a lot of nonsense about this, but IMHO in the US it boils down to three answers: 1. No paperwork whatsoever is necessary to shoot pictures of minors. People do it all the time. A large percentage of all the photos ever taken have minors in them. Search for models under 18 and ask them if anyone did any special paperwork before shooting their portfolios. In many cases, the answer will be no. However, without a model release, you will be quite limited in what you can do with the pictures. 2. In general, if the model is a minor, the model release must be signed by the model's legal guardian (usually a parent, but not always). If a model claims to be an emancipated minor (a legal status that lets her sign contracts like an adult), ask her to let you make a copy of the court order. If she doesn't have a notarized copy of the court order in her wallet, trust me...she isn't an emancipated minor. Be aware that state law varies. In some states, a model release for someone under 21 may be revocable, meaning that you could lose some of your rights in the pictures you take even if you have a release. A few states also allow underage models to sign releases under certain circumstances, but you're still much better off having a parent sign the release. Search on "model release state law" for more info. 3. Before shooting nudes or implied nudes or sexually suggestive non-nudes with a minor anywhere in the picture (whether or not the minor is nude, etc.), seek qualified legal counsel in your own state. DO NOT rely on what anyone on MM or anywhere else tells you. It's your ass. Pay for and get good advice about how to keep it covered. It can be done legally, within strict limits, but if you aren't willing to pay a good lawyer and follow his advice to the letter, don't shoot the pix. There's a lot of paranoia in general about working with minors. The simplest precaution? Don't do a shoot in a private place with anyone underage, or for that matter anyone you don't have reason to trust, unless there's another responsible adult around. If a minor model can't/won't bring a parent, recruit an assistant or hire an MUA. Better yet, do both. You didn't ask about paperwork for shooting non-minors, but here's my answer anyway: Always get a model release and a photograph of the model's drivers license to show that she was of age to sign the release. Even if you don't get a model release, you still need a copy of the model's ID. There are many reasons why you might need to identify the real person in a photo, not a stage name or handle, plus if there is any nudity or overt sexuality in the image, you need to be able to prove that you had good reason to believe that the model was at least 18. Finally, if it's a TF* shoot and you ask the model to sign a release, be prepared to give her a usage license stating that she has permission to use the photos you give her for self-promotion. Any smart model will refuse to sign a model release without getting a usage license (or something else of value, like money) in return. Optional: You may wish to have the usage license limit her rights to alter the images by saying that she can only do minor retouching and that she can only resize the images, crop them, or alter the color space as required for reproduction. (E.g., cropping or resizing to fit a space in a document, converting to sRGB for websites, or converting from color to sepia or b&w for her comp card or agency profile.) Anything else requires your permission. If you do that, be sure she also signs and dates the license, acknowledging that she accepts your terms. Keep a signed copy for your files. Hope this helps! Drayke [Female pronouns are used for the model for convenience only. I'm well aware that men can be models.]
Tue Apr 28 22:29 2009 in reply to PhotSam
In the US (where the OP is), this is not the case though. Laws vary throughout the world... I rarely ever shoot alone. At the studio I shoot @, there's always someone there @ the front office. I have hair/mu 99% of the time, because it isn't worth shooting without good make-up. Otherwise, I might as well shoot for Sears... This is subjective though. Ever since those Disney brats (Britney, Christina, etc) made it big, teenage girls wear lingerie to school as outerwear... You definitely don't want to try & shoot sexually exploitive, but you can shoot quite a diverse amount of stuff with kids... Look through this girl's port: http://www.onemodelplace.com/member.cfm?ID=249879 Take note of the stuff she did with Bruce Smith for Supermodels Unlimited. She was 12 years old, when that was shot... Neverless, her stuff is impressive for being 15, but even @ 12, well, she get's a few thumbs up from me. I talked with her mom back then & would have shot her in a heartbeat - still would... If you ever would like to shoot a potential supermodel (I mean a real one, not one that is in their own mind), you have to catch them as a discovery, when they are young. By the time they're 18, they are either out of reach or over & done with... PaulIn Florida http://articles.directorym.com/Breach_o … ml#8064922 "There may be certain circumstances that may cause a contract to be null and void. If this is the case, it may be possible to get out of being accused of breaching a contract. There are many grounds that may be used to void a contract, although contacting a lawyer is recommended to see if they apply to your case. A lawyer can give you advice on how you should proceed. A contract may be voided if it is determined that a minor entered into the contract. In most states, a minor is considered anyone under the age of 18, although there may be exceptions. If a contract is signed by a minor, and then later he or she wishes to void it, it can generally be voided with no breach of contract. One way to remedy this is to have a parent or guardian over 18 sign for the minor, or to simply not enter into a contract with one in the first place." I work with minors and I will not have a minor sign a contract -- on a model release if the subject is a minor I have the parent sign on their behalf. A contract with a minor except under special circumstances ( emancipated minor) is pretty much worthless IMO if it can be null and void simply because the signor was a minor.
Mon Jun 7 05:14 2010 in reply to Paul Brecht