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Victoria Secret in Model Colloquy
I am getting pretty dam annoyed with this. A photographer telling models how to make a living and what's available etc. YOU HAVE NO CLUE how a model gets her work together because your experience of modelling is a small percentage of the type of work available; and it is focussed at the pinnacle: well there is a pretty huge pyramid underneath it. You apparently have NO understanding of the scale and amount of work offered just by fitting. EVERY company who make stuff needs fit models and they are ALL paid. With small companies it is a few weeks a year or a bit now and again. With bigger companies they can employ fitting models of all shapes and sizes. In both cases the chances are you will do some shooting, some runway. In addition to all this there is the boutique work. Unless they are going to go to the expense of running a campaign with an ad company they are NOT going to use agency models. The average boutique owner would just laugh at that. You are in CUCKOO land if you think that is going to happen. Hell I have done shoots and little shows regularly where I alone or with one or two others are the token pro models brought in to show the shop girls and the clients how to do it; because that is all the budget they have. They may employ a photographer but they get the models. Yes; we have all seen the faces of some of you guys when you think you are going to get Kate Moss and you get us. Then we get appreciated when and only when you see us actually work. You keep talking about doing things like Dove editorials. For every model that does that there are a hundred possibly a thousand doing just the boutique and fit work for designers plus all the catalogue and parts shoots. One of my colleagues does almost exlusively hands; but does some fit also for a lingerie company. I have done hand shoots too. Another girl does shoes and a bit of fit and a bit of fashion college and life drawing. Then there are all those who do the corporate and promo work with a bit of fashion etc. then the alt girls. Huge in London; there are even character agencies like UGLY - some of the girls I know are with them; but again they get most of the work themselves. Some do styling, MUA etc too; but they still do a fair bit of modelling. YES you have to work hard, be reliable, be versatile etc BUT if you do those things the work is sometimes THROWN at you - hence the need for a network of other reliable models who can cover for you. Photography is needed and sometimes it pays but if your port is getting you work that is all you need UNLESS you have aspirations to do editorial. Most of us DO NOT. I guess companies have had bad experiences too with booking models who are also agency signed only to lose them a few weeks into a collection fit: disaster. I won't audition unless it pays or shoot unless it says because I DO NOT HAVE To to get the kind of work I was inundated with. Juggling existing commitments with new work was always the hardest and often having to give away peach jobs regular and well paid because you are already doing it for somone else. The Op is NOT going to get to be the kind of model you keep talking about; neither am I, and neither are most of the girls here. BUT if they set their sights realistically it is not difficult to earn a living modelling. There is PLENTY of work; it just may not be very glamorous to do fit or showroom or fashion college or promo or catalogue or regional ad/advertorial/editorial work etc. Now. I talked about football. You talk basketball: I know nothing about that. But in soccer there are HUNDREDS of teams; below the three divisions below the premiership. They are NOT amateur: they are paid. they don't earn thousands a week, but they earn a living. You may never hear of these teams if you don't live local to them. Thousands of professional footballers. Likewise in photography. A TINY minority of you will ever get anything published in a top fashion mag. Do we get in the photography forums saying stop dreaming you'll never earn a living at photography? NO. Why? Because obviously we know a lot of photographers who are happy with their little business making a living shooting all the weddings, family portraits, shooting the local Indian restaurant interior for an ad, doing an event or a sport etc etc. They ALL may do a bit of fashion/glamour for enjoyment/practice and if lucky may graduate to do the odd nice fashion editorial for the local mag or boutique. But I just couldn't conceive of putting those guys down just because it didn't register on my radar because I had my aspirations set on being a big shot fashion model. THAT is the equivalent of what you are doing in these threads - simply because you have NO CONCEPT of all the bulk of mostly mundane modelling work below the top of the iceberg. It is insulting as much as it is ignorant of what many of us do. If I hear ONCE MORE that there are only agency fashion models and the girls who get their tits out and other than that just one or two mighty lucky tiny girls who make it doing Dove commercials I swear I am going to scream!!!!!! Can't you see it is like us saying to a photographer well either you have to shoot top fashion models or you have to shoot tits and there is NO other paid work??????? Maybe the odd model with her head stuck up her own arse may think that is the only way photographers make a living but most of us realise what else they do. Now...you earlier questioned my credibility as a payrolled model for a top fashion house. Once more; would you like me to send you proof of my PAYE tax payslips? And if I do; will you apologise? Because I think you are going to have to see it to believe it that every big clothing manufacturer has girls like us working for them and earning a living.
Mon Aug 13 09:56 2012 in reply to Tony Lawrence
Is Facebook killing Model Mayhem. in General Industry
It is so odd that this thread came up when it did. I just closed down my regular Facebook account and opened up another one strictly for models. This happened on Wed and as of today I have 18 models who have friended me. Model Mayhem was just not doing it for me so I tried an experiment. Any model who wanted to work with me as in serious and not yanking my chain had to friend me on Facebook. It worked. The last model that flaked on me, two weeks ago in fact, said she did not have a Facebook page but she sure texted a lot. No surprise. No Facebook, no shoot. Totally flaked. Facebook, in a sense, is like a model talking to you without her sunglasses on. She can't hide behind a wall of texts or messages. Her life is in the open and therefore, they will be more forth coming. My first model to follow the Facebook rule actually showed up for the shoot. We are scheduled for another one in December if she can make it back to the island. She's from the mainland US. I have come to the realization that Model Mayhem has reached a point where models feel it is actually expected and even tolerated for them to flake. Model Mayhem is no longer for professionals. The site does nothing regarding flakes and the reputation is starting to stick. And it's not like MM has not been warned by it's members, it has, dozens of times. MM in effect is become a site full of bloat. Yep, empty calories. With all that in mind, photographers are now forced to find other venues with more reliable sources and Facebook has become that alternative. On my Facebook modeling page, I only allow models and those directly related to the modeling industry. No friends, family or photographers. Because of that, I am denying a lot of friend requests. Then again, in a matter of three day's, I have approved 18 people who are interested in modeling for me. Will they? Who knows. What I do know is that Facebook targets models who are interested in me and my work. What do I offer models who join my FB page? Updates on my work, casting calls and more importantly, I provide them with news and articles which are focused on the modeling industry. No jokes, no religion, no politics, witty sayings etc. I strictly post modeling stuff, nothing else. It's what the models want. Add that Facebook is a direct annex to my website, I seem to have a winner. It seems to be working. MM really needs to get it's act together. Stuffing this site with tons of no call/no show folks and bloating membership numbers with people who have not been on the site for one, two or more years is bringing down it's viability as a serious resource for modeling and photography. Facebook is slowly eating MM's lunch. -Koa- www.borikenwarrior.com www.facebook.com/borikenwarriorstudiosmodels
Sat Aug 4 11:52 2012 in reply to Grafanovitchi
Fabulous people appreciation thread in General Industry
In no particular orer of Awesomeness; models, MUAs and others with whom I've worked and lived to tell the tale: Laura Slater - Model #1611878 Laura is the kind of model and indeed type of person, that makes Model Mayhem work (when it does works). Not only is she beautiful but she conducts herself like a true professional. She has great communication skills and is quick to respond. Laura does her own make-up to a high standard and got up at 4:30am to arrive on time for our shoot. She is wlling to trek, climb, trudge, get stung, and fight of stray Llamas all for the sake of her art. Laura, you were a complete joy to work with. Shaz - Model # 2583503 Shaz is beautiful, professional and has a wonderful physique. She has great communication skills and arrived bang on time after travelling half way up the country. Hoping we can shoot together again soon. I wouldn't hesitate to thoroughly recommend her. Elesha Eden - Model # 2475901 A wonderful girl to work with. Faultless communications. Drove 4 hours for the shoot and arrived early. Endearingly shy and beautiful. Nicky Hayden - mua - # 1403447 Nicky was great fun to work with and a creative professional. Her eye for wardrobe was a bonus too. Looking forward to working with her again. Emily Griffith - Model # 2608218 Dancer and all round nice person. An untapped talent. Rachel Betteridge Model # 2174115 Rachel is a warm and friendly person and was great fun to shoot. Carla Shepherd - Model # 2398590 A beautiful, professional and easy model to shoot. Gabrielle - Model # 588142 A creative and bendy traffic stopping crowd pleaser! Great fun working with you Gabs. : ) Darcy Jaq - Model # 2263038 A beautiful woman with a very adaptable face and look. A great professional and now a good friend. Claire O'Brien - mua #2287319 Claire bailed me out big time when a another mua had to cancel 24hrs before an all day shoot. Claire's a true professional, a seriously talented artist and a delight to work with. Claire Glauch - mua # 2284881 Wonderful mua and great fun to be on a shoot with. What more could one want. I hope she'll put up with me again. : ) Mandy Swan - # Model 512920 A very professional and fascinating woman. Elle-Rose - Model # 881729 Her portfolio says more than I ever could, and much more articulately. She is a consumate professional; ethereally beautiful. Natalie Green - model: #2289016 Wonderful model, great communication, beautiful smile, fantastic personality, wonderful company and a real professional. Stuart Reardon - model: #2225474 Top athlete, all round nice guy! Jamie Deacon - model: #2093520 Beautiful, intelligent, modest, professional and a joy to work with. Sarah Vaites - MUA: #1732977 Pleasure to work with, talented, willing, unassuming and professional.
Fri Jul 27 00:57 2012 in reply to Greg Kolack
I'm confused again... o_O in Model Colloquy
A photographer who says he can get a model in Playboy should immediately raise some eyebrows - but there are many reasons why the credits may not match. Models can and do change their modeling names on MM. When I upload a photo, I show the modeling name the model was using at the time of the shoot on my list of credits. I don't check back regularly to see if any of the models has changed her modeling name. There are other possible explanations. I shot a model (who is not on MM), and the makeup was done by a professional MUA - whose account on MM is as a model, not an MUA. When I entered the model's MM number on the credits after uploading, it showed the MUA as the model. As soon as I discovered that it was confusing, I removed the credit. But still... There's a photo of an MUA in my portfolio. She is shown as the MUA but not as the model, although she was both. Also, I may add a model under Credits, then later remove the photo because it no longer represents my best work - but the model's name is still on the list. Sometimes I add the model's name to the list before I've done the post-processing and uploaded a photo. Or I may decide after a shoot not to upload any photos from the shoot. There are two models on my Credits list that I've shot with, but I forgot to have the model sign a release at the end of the shoot. I emailed them my release form as a PDF file. Both said they would sign and return them - but I’m still waiting for the releases after 2-3 months. So I can't use the photos in my portfolio (although the models have the photos in theirs). I could demand that they remove the photos - but is it really worth it?
Sun Jul 15 14:38 2012 in reply to J Jessica
Setting up dates with photographers in General Industry
Scheduling can be difficult at times. A time slot that is open one day may not be open the next. There have been times when I approached a model about doing a shoot, and by the time the model responded to me, I had booked another model. Sometimes when time is important (an unexpected availability, a publication deadline, etc.) it's just not a good idea to contact just one model and hope for a response. Just as an example, almost three months ago a magazine contacted me to ask me to do a shoot on short notice (to replace a photo that had been yanked because they found that the model had not signed her own name to the model release). I searched MM and found 60+ local models who met the criteria. I narrowed the list to 16 and PM'd them. This was 3-4 days before the deadline. While every one of them responded to me, ten of them responded after the deadline had passed. The last one responded four days ago. Of those who responded before the deadline, only three said they could do the shoot. I selected one and scheduled the shoot - for about six hours before the magazine's deadline. Btw, the shoot never happened. As I was approaching the location, a suburban park, I phoned the model to see if she had arrived there yet. She said her 13-year-old (not a typo) daughter was backing a car out of the driveway and dragged her (the model's) boyfriend down the driveway. The model went home to deal with that. At that point, I couldn't reach my next choice. About a week ago, a clothing designer from out of state contacted me to shoot three models on July 3. She had already selected one model (who would have been my first choice among local models), two MUA's and a hair stylist. I suggested three other local models to her to fill the other two spots - then PM'd the models to let them know that she might be contacting them. Last time I checked (one minute ago) one of the models still hadn't read her MM mail from me - nor, presumably, from the clothing designer. The moral: Check your MM mail regularly. (I'm not saying you didn't. I really don't know the circumstances.) If it's something you're inerested in doing, respond quickly. If only to say, "I'm at work. I'll check my calendar and get back to you this evening." Models on MM collectively have a horrible reputation when it comes to responding to PM's. (So do photographers apparently, but I can't attest to that.) Hence photographers often contact several models in hopes of getting a response from one of them. Often I've seen photographers suggest to other photographers in the forums that, rather than book a single model for a TF shoot, they book three for the same time and hope one shows up. (Fortunately I haven't had reason to do that. Well, maybe I should have once.) I've seen several photographers report that their flake rate (models who agree to a shoot, then don't show up and don't call) is 50% or higher. If the only thing that happened is that photographer's availability changed between the initial contact and your response, I wouldn't worry about it.
Sun Jul 1 00:26 2012 in reply to Starlyn Marie
How Backlogged Are You? in Photography Talk
Most of what's below applies only to TF shoots. Paid work always comes first. I think some models have no idea what a photographer does after the shoot. When the shoot ends, it's finished for the model, MUA, etc. For the photographer, it's just beginning. The last weekend in May I shot one model (studio and location) for five hours on Friday. On Saturday, I shot three models for nine hours. On Sunday, three models for seven hours. We're talking about roughly 1,600 images. I was already behind then, and I haven’t shot since – because I’m trying to do some catching up on post-processing first. Just selecting which images to post-process literally takes more time than the shoot itself. A lot more. Did I mention that I still have a day job? I work through one wardrobe/makeup/hair/background set at a time. First I weed out the obvious rejects. Then in several stages I look at each image at various magnifications, in some cases up to 100%, and then give each one that's not eliminated a 3-star rating in ACR. Each time I go through those that remain, I look for unsharp images, eyes closed, awkward hand positions, bland expressions, unflattering lighting (the lights are generally stationary through a set; the model isn't) – any reason to eliminate each one. I also look at various croppings. Each time I go through them, I eliminate the star rating for those that that don't make the cut. The others either stay at 3 or get 4 stars. Each pass takes longer, because the differences become more minute. Usually I end up with about 3-6 images with 5-star ratings for each set. Finally I pick the one from each set (if any) that I want to use in my own portfolio. Time permitting, I may retouch 1-2 more so the model can have a choice. I have done some TF shoots because I liked the model and wanted to help build her portfolio – knowing that most likely I wouldn't get anything to add to my own portfolio. (Not lately, though.) I'm very picky about retouching. I'm also not the fastest with Photoshop (which I started using around October 1). By the time I'm finished with an image, I may have 20+ layers of post-processing in Photoshop. Sometimes the initial direction I take an image in isn't working and I start over at Square 1. It's not uncommon to spend over an hour with an image. It’s not unheard of to spend more than three hours. (Yes, some of the first ones I did I want to re-do – when I have the time.) Rarely do I process more than one image from a shoot at a time. Since I have several shoots (and models) pending, I'll do one image for one model, then one for another model, etc., rotating through the shoots and models. Sometimes when I'm behind (which has been the norm since before the first of the year), or when getting the look I want in an image is beyond my current Photoshop capabilities, I farm some images out to a professional retoucher – at about $20 per image. Currently I have more than six days of shooting in various stages of post-processing. Paid work always takes precedence. For paid jobs, I deliver whatever was agreed to. When I do a TF shoot, a model can expect at least 1-2 images from each set; That has been in my profile since Day 1. So far no models have complained. I’m always up front about the fact that I am way behind on retouching and that paid work always comes first. However, two models have asked for ALL of the images from a shoot – after the shoot, of course. If a model specifies a time limit for delivery of images before the shoot, I just don’t shoot with her. If a model requests (what to me is) an unreasonable number of images or asks for the unretouched images, I refer her to my profile. The answers to those requests have been there since Day 1. When I shoot, my goal is not to see how many images I can cram on a CD or a DVD. My goal is to produce at one least one finished, true portfolio-quality image per set. That has been in my profile since Day 1. I was taught at an early age (15) that a professional photographer shows only his best work. I don't give out unretouched images, and I don't allow anyone else to retouch my photos except a professional retoucher working under my direction. That has been in my profile since Day 1, too. I've heard horror stories (some of them in previous forum threads) from other photographers who don't have those policies about substandard photos (with substandard or no retouching) appearing in MM, Facebook and elsewhere – credited to the photographer. I’d rather be shooting than retouching. The more time I spend retouching, the less time I have for shooting – and the more models I have to say 'no' to. The amount of time I can devote to TF decreases each month.
Sat Jun 30 21:19 2012 in reply to SteamGirl Images
Touch me not Models in General Industry
Working in a different part of the world may offer some perspective to this dilemma you all seem to be having. The more I read this thread, the more I only shake my head in frustration over how stupid some people can get. And here is why: 1) Modelling is a profession much like everything else we do in life. As stated earlier, Fashion Models are not touched, they are manhandled, and they have to live with it. The same for Agency models that are pure professionals. Why wouldn't this go for MM models or Internet models as well? Are they a different breed? It makes one wonder.... 2) I usually have atleast a make-up artist with me on the set when I shoot, especially when doing glamour or pin-up because of the extreme make-up involved. However, rarely do I ask the MUA to do shit other than keep an eye on the make-up. Adjusting is something I do myself, as I know exactly how I want it. This goes for almost everything, except their pubic area. I have never had issues, always returning models, and no problems. But then again, I never do TFPs. Always paid work, and mostly from Agencies. 3) Being a model is more than just standing there and look pretty and hope for the best. Some of the model behavior in here flat out grosses me out. Why the hell are you models in the first place? The personal space thing is null and void the MOMENT you show up for a shoot. I never ask permission to do anything. I always say: "excuse me...." and do what I need to do. Simple. But even then, its very important to have a 10 minute meeting ahead of the shoot explaining the rules. It works wonders. Personal space be damned. I agree with the OP that models like that have no future in the industry. What really bugs me the most is that the models here actually have most of the photographers agreeing with them that "never touch me." I agree that perhaps they have met a few too many GWCs, a few too many gropers for other reasons than professionalism, but hey, met a few very unprofessional girls too. Same thing, just different reasons behind the unprofessionalism. I dont say that its ok to "grope" a model. Of course it isnt. I never touch a model for other than getting my pictures perfect. Period. Feeling up a model never even occured to me to do. And most models know this already, especially the professionals. But models coming into this business with the idea that they will be left alone is sadly mistaken. Its a rough business, and survival of the fittest. If you prove not worthy to work with, then you lose work. Strange that last time I saw Kate Moss being photographed (was videod by the magazine, just cant for the life of me remember which one), she was both touched and GROPED by the photographer, and it was like a normal part of the day for her. As long as its not meant in any sexual way, and is for professional means, it shouldnt bother the model at all. Maybe I am a bad communicator then. Maybe I need to visualize. Who cares? My advice to photographers who encounter issues with this. Use professionals. Doesnt cost THAT much to hire them, if you keep away from the supermodels. Bottom line is that I have done this for a few years now and never ever had issues. NEVER. I touch my models as I see fit to get the images I need. They know this BEFORE we start shooting, as I dont have to lose focus by asking later on. But, I never grope their pubes or boobs. Thats a big no no for me too. But anything else is fair game. And the models are fine with it. And unless you work with amateurs, they know this already. If they dont, they have some issues themselves. Get used to it or get out. Easy as that. Now, flame me too, I couldnt care less. EDIT: realized this is an old thread. I humbly apologize.
Fri Jun 29 16:57 2012 in reply to Shiva Photo
problems with boyfriend escorts in General Industry
Well, I tend to stay off of these threads because people tend to get really wound up and say awful things to people that they really don't know very well, but I felt compared to share a few thoughts along with a couple of experiences that I have had with "Escorts" who are also "Boyfriends" or "Husbands"... The whole argument about photographers secretly wanting to get laid is funny to me because this whole dynamic is based off of how males and females interact in dating scenarios. I say that to say if a photographer is seeking to get laid at the conclusion of a photoshoot it's probably because he either has in the past, or is confident that he can in the present. This is because there are "Models" out there and on this site that openly offer "extras" at shoots because they are using MM to hustle. When it comes to dealing with women, men tend to do whatever works. If you are getting hit on or propositioned at shoots, blame the models that are sleeping with photogs for money. (sorry-Psycology Major) I have only been shooting for about 4 years now, but I stopped allowing escorts after my 5th shoot. In these 5 shoots I learned some very important and life saving lessons: 1. A model who cannot do her job without her boyfriend present is a potential serious problem. These girls give you all kinds of reasons why they cannot and will not shoot without an escort and they always ask you to trust that thier escort will behave themselves. I always ask them if thier escort acts up at the shoot, what they would be prepared to do about it, and they always answer by saying "That won't happen". I had a model who brought her boyfriend with her to a shoot with me. The shoot was outdoors and it was clothed (Swimwear). When he met me and saw that I was tall, young (fairly, anyway) somewhat attractive (I guess) and in good shape, he pulled her to the side and asked if they could leave. You see, not all of us are in our fifties and sixties, married and bald or fat. The model said no to the boyfriend and we began the shoot. The boyfriend spent the next 2 hours pacing behind me back and forth, banging his hands against his forehead and talking to himself loudly. Eventually he spazzed and kicked over a stand with one of my lights on it. The light was damaged and did not work anymore. I cancelled the shoot of course, but not only did the model not control her escort, she felt that she was still owed every penny that was agreed upon for the shoot due to the fact that she showed up and did her part. I gave her half, though I knew I should not have, but she basically dared me to be an asshole and I let her get away with it. You see that day I learned that the models typically don't care if you get what you need from a shoot as long as they get what they need. She had pissed her boyfriend off and they were in a full fledged argument in the middle of the shoot and that argument resulted in me having to buy new stuff. So I took my lumps and chalked it up as experience... 2. Models always assume that in a photoshoot scenario, that they are always the ones that are in danger of being hurt or taken advantage of. The fact is in a situation like this neither person knows the other very well, and that element alone can even the sides very effectively. I rented a very nice hotel suite and scheduled a shoot with a model. She asked if she could bring someone with her...you guessed it, her "Boyfriend". I reluctantly agreed because I had already paid for the room and did not want to risk not having the shoot at all. They showed up and I was setting up. The model came over and greeted me and so did the boyfriend. He took a seat in the living area while I continued to set up the model went into the bathroom to change and do her make-up. The boyfriend came over to where I was (I had my back to him) and called out to me. When I turned around there were two guys instead of one, and I was asked to set my phone down on the bed along with my wallet and leave EVERYTHING. I gave a look like "yeah, right" and that's when the second guy showed me the gun behind his back. I did what they asked and I left. Needless to say I had to rebuild my equipment inventory from scratch...camera, lenses, lighting, the whole nine...as it turned out, the plan always was to rob me from the very beginning. When I exited the hotel, shaking by the way because I so almost got shot, I got into my car and drove away. I called the cops, but nothing ever happened. I learned that day, that escorts are a responsibility that I just cannot ever deal with again. They break stuff, they steal and they sometimes attempt to direct your shoot by holding thier girlfriends hostage emotionally by showing thier disapproval without ever saying a word. I do not force models to come alone if they don't feel safe. In fact, I tell them if they don't feel safe to stay at home, because if they think something is going to happen by working with me, then it would be stupid of the to show up. I know I wouldn't come if I thought I was going to be taken advantage of. I offer meet and greets the day before a shoot, and the models can bring whoever they want. Some take it and some don't depending on logistics. I also offer to speak with models over the phone. At the end of the day policies are a reflection of people's personal experiences. Photogs that frown on escorts are not all up to no good. I look at it like this: If I am paying, why should I be forced into a situation where I am uncomfortable simply because you as the model, think I should. Some girls don't bring escorts because they have never had anything happen them where they feel like they need one, and most realize that it sometimes costs you jobs. I don't fault people either way. I no longer work with newbies unless thay have extensive ports and references, but even then it's a crapshoot, because after all, you don't put down the jobs where you acted a fool. That would be counter-productive. I lean towards very experienced, travelling, professionals models because they have a much longer track record and they may have something to lose by bahving in a way that is less than prefessional. I've just decided that I have to save money to work with those types of models, because in the beginning, my budget was the reason that I did not attempt to hire those models in the first place. And speaking of money, do people even realize how expensive a photoshoot is? Why spend hundreds of dollars to hire a model and hope she'll sleep with you? For the cost of a half day shoot, you could almost hire three hookers and get guaranteed sex. Anyway, I've talked long enough...
Mon Jun 25 13:56 2012 in reply to Vlan Photo
$20 Casting calls in Model Colloquy
...my guess is she goes home with more than she started with. ? I think anyone can figure out why someone might offer and why someone might accept a $20 shoot. a) Will all models accept a $20 offer? Nopes. But not all models will accept a $50/hr offer. No photographer and no model with any common sense expects that their requirements will be acceptable to all potential collaborators. b) There seems to also be a slight to models who do accept a $20 offer. Do photographers expect high-profile, experienced, published models to accept the offer? Probably not. But there *are* experienced models (models who have done a lot of shoots) who are willing to accept the $20 offer. It is possible to get what you want from a model for $20. Everyshoot is different. Every model is different. c) A photographer might offer $20 for a shoot that they consider TF, but they want to try to help ensure the model doesn't cancel. In my experience, the cancellation rate *is* lower when a modest 'gas stipend' is offered. Bottom line: it's a $20 shoot and even if the model spends $10 on gas and/or parking, the model has $10 that they didn't have before. Again, every individual will decide what's worth their time. Would I expect $20 to entice a model who doesn't like my work to shoot with me? Nopes. But if the model *does* like my work, maybe that, plus $20, makes the job a little more worth her time. d) As far as photographers who never offer more than $20... A photographer might be a hobbyist and they figure, depending on how many shoots they do per year, that they can afford to pay each model $20. Should they expect to work with every model they like? Nopes. But there are plenty of criteria by which a model might refuse to work with a specific photographer. I doubt a $20 photographer is any less aware of that fact than a photographer who is paying $120/hr. e) As far as photographers who never offer more than $20... Maybe the photographer is a professional and that's what he's willing to pay a specific model b/c that's what he thinks the model is worth...or b/c that's what he/she thinks the specific job is worth. The model will either accept the offer or not. I just assume, again, each photographer knows there will always be a reason for a model not to accept the job. f) If you're in New York you're probably aware that there are lots of small theater groups paying actors $50 or $60 as compensation for their participation in a play. That often includes all the rehearsal time and a run of 12 performances. There are always artists who can offer very little in terms of compensation and there are always artists for whom even a small payment is worth their time. And sometimes there are artists (and, yes, I'm gonna argue that there is plenty of GOOD talent, willing to work for very little) for whom the earnings are not the primary motivation even. Again, the justifications are numerous and specific to each individual. I think it makes for pretty good common sense. g) For some people $20 *is* a lot of money. I recognize that fact and would don't want presume to say what is or is not a lot of money to someone. Diff strokes for diff folks.
Fri Jun 22 11:09 2012 in reply to Tiffiney C
Models-Don't you like talking on the phone? in Model Colloquy
I get around 5 phone call requests a day.....from photographers, editors, directors, etc. I'm sorry, but I am not going to call all of them so that 30% of them can ask me to lunch and ask what I'm wearing this evening and what my hobbies are.....especially random people off the internet who were not refered to me through a friend or agent. Then I get texts from a few of them at 3:00am asking me to their best freind's birthday party! It's frustrating and offensive. I prefer the parameters of the shoot and basic details such as my agency would get for me to be provided in an email. It doesn't waste the photogtaphers time. He/she can copy/paste the same general email to 20 models. I feel that details need to be in writing in an email, and refered to later. Remember, if you are contacting us, you are a stranger off the internet and not refered to by a trusted friend or agent. A model may need a little more proof that you are legitimate or your offer is legitimate. Have you provided your business URL? Does your profile list your office or studio address? Is there a list of model referal links on your page? Concept? Who is the client? Very basic information of the shoot including estimated dates, usage, rates, etc. It has happened enough times to models that communication on the phone such as being assured over the phone "Oh, don't worry, the shoot is implied topless only" and then the poor model arrives to the shoot only to be told, "I TOLD you there was full nudity and you agreed!" That is one example of why most details should have been in writing/email. Promises and agreements should not be made over the phone. Emailing more information is also better than a 45 minute phone call when the model used roaming to take your call (costing her $75), or maxing out her limited minutes on her cell phone, and you haven't even narrowed it down to the final 3 models yet. Last month I had $150 in roaming charges for talking to two different photographers who told me nothing that could not have been in a general email copied and pasted to all the prospective models. One of them could not even stay focused on the purpose of the phone call and told me all about his theater trip the night before while I tried to re-direct the conversation back to business. I don't have time or energy for that. When you give adequate information and provided your most basic business information; when you've gotten replies to it and narrowed it down to the last few models, THEN it is not unreasonable to ask for a phone number. BTW, I have done MOST shoots via Model Mayhem and ALL shoots via my modeling agency without one phone call prior to a shoot. However as details are finalized I always provide my phone number, especially to be accessable en route to the shoot or to arrange a wardrobe fitting with the designer/stylist. Please, do not take it personally if a model does not initially call you. Do not think you are the only one asking for the model to call. You do not realize that there are a percentage of guys who want to talk to models everyday all day long (and seldom or never hire any models), and it ruins it for you photographers who have a legitimate and attractive assignment to offer. I hope that this perspective coming from a veteran model is a little helpful...... A few extra emails with general information helps models weed out who to focus their time on. And I believe models should reply to all emails in a timely manner. The time of all professionals are valuable, models and photographers, alike. Sorry for the verbosity of this reply. On my cell phone I cannot scroll up and edit. ;-)
Wed Jun 13 10:32 2012 in reply to David Miller Photoworks
Time to redefine or codify TF/TFCD in General Industry
I got stiffed yesterday by a photographer who refused to give me a copy of all the images after a TFCD shoot. First time ever I got stiffed on a shoot by a diva photographer claiming complete creative exclusivity of the images. He said he would email me "a few" of the images after editing. Excuse me? And my compensation for 9 hours commuting and a three hour shoot is "a few" images??????????? He said I did not know what TFCD means. Really? OK. Time to revisit the definition of TF. I propose we codify this here and now and may it serve as the template for all photographers and models in the future (wishful thinking). Let's go with this, three segments to the label when sending a TF offer to a model: TFxx: the first segment indicates the number of images the model will receive after the shoot, so TF10 means the model gets ten images. TF ALL means the model gets a copy of all the photos. PPI or NPPI: By using PPI, the photographer is stating "Post Processing Included" for the ten images. NPPI: No Post Processing Included. M, or P: M=Model, P=Photographer. Who chooses the images to be processed? M means the model looks at low resolution images in perhaps a grid folder view or at a website, and then selects the ten. P means the photographer selects the ten. The model has no input in the selection process. So lets look at a few examples at full speed: TF15-PPI-P The model gets 15 photos, post processing included, but the photographer chooses which 15 to give to the model. Since post processing is included the delivery method will be via email. TF5-PPI-M The model gets 5 images, post processing included, and the model also chooses which 5 he/she gets. TF ALL-NPPI No need for the third segment. The photographer will give the model a copy of all the photos after the shoot, no post processing included. Just burn them all to a disc and bid each other farewell. A fourth category is in order and is implied: H (High resolution). Funny how sometimes a photographer gets off on sending a model photos that are 50 KB in size. I cant print that. It's useless to me. In all cases the photos given to the model should each be RAW or JPEG Fine, which is around 4+ MB in size minimum. If you plan to send 50 KB files, then fully disclose to your model that you intent to screw her by sending her useless images. Please, feel free to join in. Make suggestions. Let's invent a better mousetrap together so that never again a model gets stiffed after commuting 4 hours to a shoot, posing for 3 hours, then commuting back home for 5 hours due to traffic, with her only compensation for 12 hours being "I'll send you a few images." Never again will I will be told I don't know what TFCD means because we, as front-line photographers and models, will codify that here and now. Personally, I'm looking for TF ALL-NPPI. I "roll my own" and make my own art. I don't need a photographer to make my art for me. If you contact me with an offer other than TF ALL-NPPI, I'm not interested. I know just by looking at the label what the offer is and whether or not I am interested. And both can refer back to the original email offer and verify/refute any claims as to what was offered. So here is what a sample email from a photographer to a model would look like: "Hi. Saw you port. Would love to work with you. TF5-PPI-P. You interested?"
Sat Jun 9 14:15 2012
I can only comment on how things work in the NYC area, I have no idea about your market or others. If you are building a book of fashion images to show designers, art directors or agencies, you need to use "agency standard" models - and again, I'm talking about the full look, not just the numbers. If you don't, anyone reviewing your book will just toss it aside - no matter how great the photography is, and no matter what designs the model is wearing. It is somewhat unfortunate, but it is the truth. The further you get from what they are used to seeing, the less likely they will take you (a photographer) seriously. As far as the cost of agency models goes for small designers or testing photographers, you can get many new faces for free if the agency likes your work. Also, there are many agency represented models, who aren't getting many bookings through the agency that are able to book side gigs - and they do. This is often the case for agency models who are doing fit modeling. Again, I have no idea how things work on your end, but the fit models I have known were all agency standard. Most legitimate, small designers here that are putting together a look book for a line will still use agency girls when shooting it, often the same models they used to fit the line. Anywho, none of that is really germain to what the crux of this thread is about (and the breakdown of communication that is occurring). You say you don't spend much time here on the forums, I believe you. If you do, you'll find post after post after post of young girls, who want to be models - and not just any kind of model, but an agency represented fashion model in a major market - and simply do not have what it takes to get the gig. Not even close. Yet anyone who tells them that is castigated like they are evil jerks who just want to piss in their cornflakes. Then you get a plethora of others who come and post the same "just go for it grrl, don't listen to the h8ers, you need to work hard for your dream!" bs. Hell, a girl just started a thread in here for her "friend" who wanted to have her legs surgically broken in hopes that she could grow taller! WTF!?! And even if she was taller, it probably wouldn't make a hairs bit of difference. Someone, at some point, has to be honest with them, and I was in my opening post. Yes, if I do a search in NYC for models, with the criteria I am looking for, I can find a number of girls who will fit the bill quite nicely. But if I just do a blanket radius search, it's astounding what you find. Hell, do a radius search for photographers - are you going to tell me that most of them are of a caliber that you would hire? I don't think so. Hell, even if they offered to shoot your work for free (which many of us would depending on the circumstances) you would probably turn them down. If that's true for photographers on this site, doesn't it make sense that it's also true for models? Do I have models from this site flake on me? Not anymore, as I've been on here for a while, and most of the models I would be interested in shooting are either friends of mine, or we have mutual friends in common. But if contacting a new model, I'm always leery. And, btw, it's not that agency models never flake - although that's rare - but if they do, you simply make one call to the agency and you'll have another one there quickly. I tried to cast here once for a commercial gig - I needed a model who looked like a model but still looked "girl next door" as well as a male for a national ad for a BBQ grill. The work paid very, very well for about 6 hours of work. It was a nightmare. Never again, unless I've already worked with/tested the model. Even for my fine art work, I'm leery as I put a lot of resources into a shoot.
Thu Jun 7 12:23 2012 in reply to PonyGurlCouture
I see what Eliza means by word twisters. I turn over thousands of pounds not dollars annulally. Profit is small. But all my models are on model mayhem; and I pay them because they are professionals. My one expense at an agency model she looked like a prepubescent sack of shit in my clothes. Models don't get work from photographers everyone knows that. They don't even pay when the gig is through an ad agency. If they are given control of the model budget they keep it themselves and try it on with naive young models who they persuade to do it for free; or more likely the models are booked sperately by the agency or chosen by the designers. BUT most of the work doesn't involve photography at the kind of level you are talking about. There are TWO industries here and you can't seem to differentiate between them. One is the fashion industry; and the other is the advertising industry. I am part of the fashion industry like many other small designers can't get involved in the latter but that doesn't stop us en masse contributing millions to help sorting the balance of payments deficit. So what we do is for 12 weeks we are on a collection and for the whole time just about we use a fitting model. They mostly work with other girls who match them so they can swap about; because they are like rocking horse shit because we often use the same ones that the big houses do. They are well paid; but reasonable for what they do. So then comes the initial photos when they are done. You get in the photographer next door or diy. Then you give the clothes an outing. To an event. Your model does that to because she is the one it has been made on. Then it gets in the papers. Best one for me was Eliza being photographed at London fashion week because there are hundreds of us can't get in the new designer bit so we'll bushwhack it. I also use models at the races to model the stuff which is how Eliza got involved with all the other designers doing the same thing; and the pictures get everywhere from mainstream tv to local newpapers to Horse and Hound to the Racing Post to Marie Claire. Then we get other photographers interested in doing some stuff for editorial features; whether it be local magazines or photographers here having a go. So again it is free advertising. Then at this stage you go back to fit and iron out any problems the fit model due to her expereince has identified. Then you go to trade fairs at home abroad. Again you take your models. Then you do fashion shows and a boutique buys three pieces; another two. Then you take them to big retail events and more fashion shows with other small designers. The only photographers are local press. By this time over six months you may have recouperated costs and then start again. By the time you are ready for the next collection you may have made £3-5k for yourself out of the turnover; but employed a lot of people in that process including models who have worked their arse off for you. Now there are thousands of us sharing these models sometimes with big fashion houses and the boutiques and the wholesale fashion concerns it is thanks to their dedication and not dropping us like hot shit when they get a bigger designer wanting them that we can do this at all. There that is the real fashion world. Agency models and Dove adverts has nothing to do with it apart from the odd bit of work that the models get. They still make a living though thanks to the thousands of little outfits like me. And when photographers want them for nothing you don't get why they say no do you? They know they aren't going to get into Vogue this is their living not pie in the sky. I have never be let down by a Model Mayhem model and they have all been 100% professional; on time; no issues with escorts. That goes for the art nude girls and burlesque girls too. Perhaps you are just picking the chancers because you don't want to pay I don't know. Or perhaps they just don't let designers down. But I am pretty sure if the ones I have used are anything to go by they've never flaked on anyone. Now I read somehwre that Eliza offered you I think it was to see her paychecks. She isn't going top do that publicly but she'll do it privately. So that will tell you what you are saying about models under 5ft 7ins not being able to earn a living out of fashion is rubbish. Her flatmate's partner was only 5ft 3 ins and did similar for the day to day income though she is also an actress. And loads more of her friends too. Maybe the shoot work for editorial is at a low level and even parts stand in stuff. But they aren't in the advertising business they are in the rag trade. And when I started going out with her and the recsssion made things tight for me it was her income that kept us being able to live in London and most of it was fashion generated.
Wed Jun 6 14:03 2012 in reply to Tony Lawrence
Those curious about modeling and height can check out: http://www.newmodels.com/ This site by a former MM member is a excellent source of information. Fashion agencies often use their runway models for print. I think we can mostly agree that taller models are easier to see on a runway and it might be ridiculous to have a 5'2" model with a model 5'10" Another problem is designers only make a few sample pieces and having to make things for short models as well as tall ones wouldn't work. There are many small models who may be beautiful and have lean proportional figures but what happens if ad or project has them working with tall men or tall women. An agency only has so many slots for models as well. However one of the biggest reasons is tall beautiful models tend to stand out so to say. Anyone who's seen Iman or the current crop of agency faces knows what I mean. You may be stunning at 5'2" but people just notice taller people in general and studies show that taller people get better jobs and make more money. http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/Careers/02/0 … index.html People tend to associate success, intelligence and even attractiveness with height. Height matters, age, skin color, weight and overall figure all matter as a model. This bullshi^ about being photographed tall is just that, bullshi7. If height wasn't a issue then fashion and commercial agencies would just accept any and all models they felt were attractive enough to book work but they measure their models. Print modeling is very calculated. They want female models who aren't too small vs. their male models. They want young, thin and usually White women and girls. You can yap about how height, age, weight or anything doesn't matter on MM all you want but go pick up almost any Lifestyle, fashion magazine, catalog, cosmetic and or beauty ad who is using models not stars and check them out. Being short as a model is not a plus. Being unsigned is not a plus. Being a older model is not a plus. However don't debate that with me. Debate it with real world agencies who book work for their clients.
Mon Jun 4 11:47 2012 in reply to Nico K
Question regarding payment of nude pics.. in General Industry
This is a real problem, and models are the ones usually getting the short end. There isn't one good answer, except KNOW who you are dealing with. If you take borderline or sketchy jobs, or gigs, then you will have to use higher degrees of caution. But it comes down to the shooting time, the release, and the payment. Some photographers will shoot, and don't want a release and will skip out on payment. They have the photos, and it's hard for the model to do anything about it. This has happened to a lot of models I know. Some of the stories are almost worth making a movie about. Photographers have left models stranded in airports, in fields, in other states, etc. Same with the models. I screen out 10 or 15 models for each 1 that I invite to show up, and out of those maybe 1 in 5 actually does. My "problem" rate is very, very low. But I really don't care if I shoot with every model. I want to shoot with models who are *NOT* problems. That is most important to me. On the other hand, someone I worked with did pretty much anything she could to get the models to show up, and she had problem after problem. We never could reconcile our differences on this. She wanted to shoot any model regardless. I didn't like the risk. It's harder for the models, who are usually the ones seeking payment. In order to get paid, they need to take jobs, and often the paid jobs are because the photographers can't get TF* or trade. The more money being offered, the more it seems to be so. (This is in lieu of the photos being for a specific release like a website, etc). The amounts vary by area, but are usually 2-3x minimum wage or current going minimums (in some areas minimums are a little higher). Just for round numbers, if local jobs are offering $10/hour for entry/unskilled/register/clerk etc positions, then $30/hour is usually more than enough above to get models. If you have to go to $75 or $100, then you need to be more cautious as to why that is being paid. From the models point of view, the $75 job is more desirable than the $30, but the "risk" may not be worth it. Local economics (and KNOWING your local economics) is important in this. There have been threads about "red flags" on several systems lately, and people need to be more aware of the red flags, and use the same decision making skills they use when meeting people in general. There is nothing special or different about the model/photographer, except that it can be more dangerous for EITHER the model or photographer (yeah, I have model horror stories, so do others). But as a photographer, I can be much more choosy in picking models, than the models can be in picking the photographers. The one with the money usually has more control. In general, the photographers have the money (either theirs, or a clients) and the models are applying for jobs to get that money. That kind of shifts the "risks" in the direction of the models. Money is a "hook" to bring people in. Sometimes, it's not all about the photos, and sometimes the money really isn't there. I don't think it's getting better, either. I think it's getting worse. Scott
Sun Jun 3 14:51 2012 in reply to ontherocks
Ugh. NO YOU are talking about elite work mainly corporate; and even then only at top level. WTF do you think myself and HUNDREDS of other fit and show models in London are doing for designers and stores every day? Then. Compared say with the campaigh for MandS swimwear which yes a lot of money and agency models and advertising companies and top people are involved with; the sort of work I am talking about doesn't register on your radar. BUT for the two or three models doing that and getting great money; or for the supermodels doing the even bigger stuff for top fashion editorial; what you don't see AT ALL is a giant iceberg beneath. Have a guess how many independent boutiques there are in the UK. ALL using models. Now try small designers. As I said over thirty milliners alone on my facebook. All with websites; all paying models to shoot and to wear at events. Have a look at how many designers there are on here. Think they are using agency models? Get real. Well they may be; but not from the agencies. Then as I said even the top fashion houses don't use agency models for showroom, fitting, merchandise brochures, and not even all fashion shows. So WE HAVE THE MAINSTREAM CONSISTENT WORK don't you get it? The Agency models have the cream and so they should because if a huge amount is riding on it you ned the best money can buy. I am not Silvia Dimitrova. I can work in a supporting role to her but she is stunning and an incredible model so I wouldn't even think myself worthy of doing runway with her; but AP did. But I was there doing all the fit and bits of other things they use models for almost every day. THAT is what I call the fashion manistream,; all that stuff. What you are talking about is the elite stuff. But as I have said numerous times but you seem incapable of considering; NOBODY uses agency models for the vast majority of bog standard fashion work. I shouldn't say that really because a great many taleted people are involved with it and place a lot of faith in us and give us a huge amount of work. BUT I am sure they will forgive me for saying it isn't that stuff you are talking about. Now. Once again consider this. If we were talking about football; this would be the discussion. YOU: "Eliza we are talking about two different things. I am talking about the real mainstream foortballers in the premier league. You are talking about having a kick round with your mates." ME : "what rubbish! Don't you know we have three divisions under that and dozens of minor divisions under that so we are talking about THOUSANDS of professional footballers on nowhere near the amount of money or fame the few hundred premier league boys are on but nevertheless professional footballers. Then all those premier clubs have several reserve teams where the players are on much less money and nobody but the hardcore fans watch them or know them. And in fact; more TYPICAL of what an average pro footballer does. YES beaneath all those thousands there are thousands more having a kick around with their mates but even they can get involved with a small non league club and get paid if they are good and hard working." Now I don't know how to say it any more. You are talking about the top 1% of the fashion business (editorial and top runway) and the top 2% beneath that (advertising campaigns). And because that isn't even enough to keep agency models in a living they are here with the rest of us grafting. Now I am not going to argue this any more. You DO NOT know what we do and because we don't do top advertising campaigns you think we aren't profesionals. That is a BULLSHIT IGNORANT AND INSULTING argument; and one that could EQUALLY be apllied to every pro photographer who doesn't do those campaigns too. Nice work if you can get it; but RIDICULOUS to suggest that is the bulk of the professional work in fashion for photographers or models. Yep you know what agency models and egncies do. You haven't got a clue what design houses, designers, boutiques, fashion students, fashion colleges, stores, hair salons, regional magazines doing a bit of fashion editorial with local designers or even high st stores and boutiques; do every day of the week. Because that employs THOUSANDS of us and the Agency girls are here grabbing a bit too. I worked as a model in a fashion house for nearly two tyears do you not realise I know what I am talking about? As did my flatmates partner who is 5ft 3 ins btw and worked for in house for their main rival. And there are about another hundred lingerie design houses and designers in London alone all with fit models in several sizes; and very few of the smaller ones go to Agency models or advertising companies for their ads and local mag editorial and fashion shows. And that is just lingerie. Just in London. And I worked for the world's TOP house and they used me almost every day for much of the year. Only a bit of photography and runway; but that is only a fraction of the day to day fashion biz. I give up if you are not going to believe me short of taking you by the scruff of the neck and dragging you round every design house, designer and boutique in London for a week ; then taking you to all the little reginal magazines (legion) I don't know what to do. It is like arguing with a creationist. YES you are right about the top tiers. But you are very wrong about THAT being the mainstream. It is what it is: the icing on a very big cake. And I have not for ONE minute suggested the advertising agencies or the big concerns use us instead of Agency models; so your sarcasm at the end above was completely unwarranted. Occasional modelling gig. Piffle. We work every day the agency girl doesn't - unless she is here too. Now IF we were unreliable we wouldn't get the work. But perhaps the actual designers and clients are better at picking models than SOME photographers apparently are. For a start if they don't know you they have interviews and get references before you get the jobs. And John the nude model guy is NOT any good as a reference. I supplied the Royal Geographical Society as my previous long term employer 'reliability' reference; plus I think a fashion college and two designers. Playing around at being models indeed! What the fuck have I paid all that PAYE tax for then?
Thu May 31 19:41 2012 in reply to Tony Lawrence
Eliza, I've been following this thread and there is only one fashion model in it. She has tears but forget that for a moment. That article is a editorial piece about some web models but please for the love of all that's holy, stop with this stuff about short fashion models. The majority of catalog, jewelry, cosmetic or beauty work, and fashion is booked via agencies and goes to models 5'8" or taller. Forget Vogue or V or Elle because they pay next to nothing. The bread and butter work for most models is catalog and again that work is going to agency signed models most of whom are under 21 and over 5'7". There are precious few petite models who work consistently but they are very few in number. There are two very separate worlds. The world of the real working fashion and commercial model and they are largely NOT on MM and the web based model who represents herself. You may be able to point out a few members who buck the trend and work but they are the exception and not the rule. A little reality the average model makes around $20.00 a hour. This is adjusted based on down time and is a national average in the US according to the DOL. Don't believe me? Look up it up. The average fashion models career lasts a year if she's lucky. A busy model doing catalog and fashion not the average mind you makes around $100,000 a year. I am not speaking of the current crop of super models but the agency faces at Elite, Ford, DNA and other agencies. I don't know many who work consistently who are not at least 5'7" and most range from 5'8" to 5'11". However forget what, I have to say. Go to: http://www.dnamodels.com/women-main-board If I'm looking to show off my new designs do, I hire a 5'2" model from MM or will I go there? http://www.womenmanagement.com/models/list/1/all/1 no 5'3" models. There is no niche for those models. The truth is that real world clients hire real working models who fit industry standards. There may be some petite working models but they are rare. Most of all clients with decent budgets should always go to agencies. Booking web based models is a recipe for failure. Not pointing any fingers.
Wed May 30 20:42 2012 in reply to Eliza C
What to do about model no show no call in Photography Talk
Well, starting yet another "flake thread" is very popular, but I don't get the sense that it helps at all. Throughout your life, you will encounter reliable and unreliable people. If making appointments with unreliable people isn't satisfying you, you need to improve your selection process -- choose to work with reliable people. That is, check references. In particular, form friendly relationships with your local photographers & models, and use them when you check references. You can also use your local community to discuss rates, share resources, share locations, do group shows, etc. If you don't want to pay models, you don't have to. Understand the best available models deserve & expect to get paid, but if you are happy working with the less experienced & skilled models, more power to you. But in any (every) case, it's kinda up to you to make sure that your models are happy with their motivation. If they don't like your TF* pictures, if they don't like your patter, if they don't like the compensation you are offering, etc. the chances of flakes increase. So, your model is responsible for paying the MUA? Why pay an MUA and not a model? You can do whatever you want, but I would think that many models will shy away from photographers who want a deposit. I also observe that there are many "Where are my photographs?" threads. So, to me, a "fair" deposit scheme would work like this: ... Model & photographer agree to a date/time/content,/etc. for a sitting. ... Model gives photographer a $50 deposit. ... Model shows up on time, ready to go. ... Photographer refunds the $50. ... They work together creating images. ... At the end of the session, photographer gives model a $150 deposit. ... Photographer edits the images. ... Photographer delivers agreed-upon images in the agreed-upon format. ... Model refunds the photographer's $150. Yes, the photographers deposit is larger, because a) the session is already completed when the deposit is issued, b) the photographer gets to keep the copyright, and c) the photographer typically drives the session, doing the images he wants (more than what the model wants). Try that. (Or, why should the model trust the photographer if the photographer doesn't trust the model?) How about paying experienced models? The benefits... ... Models who are not reliable don't get experienced, ... Experienced models know what they are doing, ... Experienced models might teach you something, ... etc. If you insist on working with "new" models with no track record, you are taking a chance. If it falls apart, there is nothing you can do about the model, but there is everything you can do to improve your selection criteria.
Wed May 30 18:20 2012 in reply to redbanana
You seem to put a lot of stock in my opinion (thanks by the way) so here it is warts and all: First of all, what's "on my radar" is what I see and know personally. And while you clearly must know every working model in the industry, I don't. I do however happen to know a few really amazing girls, none of whom are agency represented who make a good enough living to support themselves in various nice markets ranging from pretty standard art modeling to alternative modeling.Additionally, if you read my original post on this topic in full rather than getting all lathered up about the fact that I actually liked the piece you would have noticed that I said FROM THE BEGINNING that you don't need to be 5'10 and rail thin to model but you do need it if you want to be signed with a fashion agency. Clearly the inference there was lost so I'll spell it out: If you're 5'2 some place like Ford isn't going to touch you, it doesn't mean you can't model at all but it does mean that I get pissed off when those girls contact me about doing a high fashion shoot with no budget because I can't pull clothes for them because as I'm sure you're well aware fashion fit models are taller etc.. Did you actually read the article? Or were you just outraged by the insinuations it made? The article clearly states the following: "How do you spot the internet model, you ask? Their photos are always those that seek attention: cleavage, booty shorts, bad tans, kissy faces, and a plethora of mirror photos taken with a flashing light from her handheld, digital-camera in the corner. Their status updates are also fashioned in a way so as to let the world know what they are doing, even if it pointless, quotidian minutia: “Just did my nails.” If that isn't what YOU do or how you conduct YOURSELF professionally then you're clearly not who the author is talking about. With that I refer back to my clearly magical ability to listen to a song about women being whores ect. and not falling into the fetal position or starting a letter writing campaign or protest because I'm quite clear on what type of person I am. Oh and speaking of MM in particular while you've possibly been spared some of the questionable "portfolios" I've seen enough to be convinced that some of these girls fit that description to a tee AND there are some models who don't fit it at all...kind of like how all black people aren't thugs on welfare or all white people aren't racist and stuck up or all Asian people aren't concerned with academic achievement...all models who have online portfolios don't fit into the "internet model" description. Please don't sing your sad little song about being "unpresented" or "unappreciated" as a model, you won't get an ounce of sympathy from me. When you tell people you work as a model I'm sure that 99.9% of the time they know what you mean. Try saying to someone outside of the industry that you're a wardrobe stylist AND that you only pull from indie designers and just watch how fast the stupid questions start flying. Or better yet how many times has someone asked you to come and work for no money because of course you must have everything you ever shot still sitting in your closet so it can't be that much of a hassle... As someone who spends every second of their professional lives behind the scenes I know all about the unsung. My comment about the parade was no more uncalled for then your erroneous attack on my thoughts which I will once again point out mirrored your own in the sense that I stated from the very beginning that a model didn't need to be an agency girl to work and I mentioned knowing models who weren't. I realize that sometimes in a debate it's not always clear which side someone is on but it is possible for me to love the article and still understand and respect that there are independent models that don't fit that mold, the same way it's completely possible for me to be anti-war and still supportive of the troops. Perhaps that's too complex of an emotion for some but I can walk and chew gum too so I much be special. Defend your colleagues all you want but don't pretend that there aren't some girls (a lot of girls) that give modeling a bad name. Maybe you're oblivious to this fact because you've never come across them in your own life BUT I've booked models who showed up on set looking NOTHING like their photos (retouch is a dangerous thing especially when it's natural), I've had girls with nothing but mirror shots contact me and demand to be paid for shoots, I've had girls tell me that it was my job to help them get booked and I've had girls call me the day before a shoot and say "by the way my hair looks nothing like it looks in my pictures and I know you asked me before but I didn't want to tell you, I've also had girls show up on set a day early and then blame me for it when all of my communication clearly stated another date...should I go on? Because I have dozens of more stories from my dealings with "internet models". HOWEVER I've also had models who serve as the antithesis of this in that they're professional and I will once again reiterate that on both sides of it I'm only speaking from experience.
Wed May 30 07:35 2012 in reply to Eliza C
That is not the issue. Those of us who work modelling in fitting or for boutiques and small designers or doing regional fashion stuff don't fit on your radar other than 'a few independent models'. The point I am making is that the Agency models are few; the supermodels are fewer. But they are visible. So the independent models only come up as the 'ones you know'. Yet I know because I have worked in that field across the board that it is in fact WE who make up the majority. There is not in fact much differentiation between most Agency models and the rest of us: Those girls cannot exist on one or two jobs a year provided for by the Agency. So they are out there grafting on the net too. No; the article didn't single out the girls with tasteless fb photros; it implied that ALL internet models are like that; which they are clearly not. And it specifically targets MM with its graphic. The truth is it is the elite who are unrepresentative. As unrepresentative of musicians as the elite rock star. But one doesn't see net articles saying all other musicians should give up because they are never going to be U2 or the Rolling Stones; and that just because they have 600 likes on their fb page doesn't make them a musician. Clearly that is flawed; and it is just the same with modelling. BUT it is just the kind of view that someone who works at the high end of the industry only may assume: it is kind of the Simon Cowell syndrome; 'you will never make it' as though that is what it is about for independent rock bands. Of course; anyone in the backroom -sound engineers, recording studio people, the fans of small bands, know it is the Cowell pehnomenon that is not representative of the industry. The small band pays for the recording studio, plugs away on their fb page, does the odd bit of session work (because the 'manufactured' star band often can't even play their instruments) and builds a following; makes a living. And once again; they are legion such bands. It is true that you do get the fb mobile phone models here. But likewise in music you can also see some dire bands that have only ever rehearsed in the bathroom! I don't want a ticker tape parade and I resent your accusation; uncalled for and snide. What I am doing is trying to defend my colleagues and explain to some of the narrow view here who think that article has any credence what modelling is about. It was an attack on all; not the wannabe bedroom model. We are internet models too. We work; doing the bulk of journeyman stuff that the elite don't. And that is before we go into modelling of other genres. This was an attack on the 'internet model' as exemplified clearly by MM. You may mean something distinct; though your only thought was the 'few independent models' you know personally. Well I know hundreds of independent models personally and if you open your eyes there are THOUSANDS on here who do a good job day in day out. I also know Agency girls; I also know they are here too; including the odd top campaign model. I am not getting 'bent out of shape'. I am not the one who has resorted to attack you personally. I am just saying your definition has excused a few personal independent ones you know; my point is that in fact they are the vast majority of professional models when combined with the Agency models here too and all get much of their work from their web ports. Don't get so bent out of shape I was just clarifying that not attacking you personally.
Wed May 30 02:33 2012 in reply to Tiffany_B
Dear Lord - someone wants to pay me! in Model Colloquy
If you want to get really good at posing (better than most of the models on MM will ever be), check the public library and see if they have this DVD set: http://www.photographingmodels.com/smdvd.html Chances are you library won’t have it. The next question is whether they can borrow it through the Interlibrary Loan System (or whatever the UK equivalent is). It’s a group of libraries across the country that was created so one library can borrow something they don’t have from a library in another city that has it. Mary is a former model and is now a photographer in the Detroit area. Many agencies in that area send their new recruits to Mary for their first shoot, because she teaches the basics of what I call Stage 4 modeling. She has one DVD for photographers and a 2-DVD set for models. Stage 1 – Deer in the headlights. Maybe 40% of new models go through this one. For most of them, it’s over before the end of their first shoot (although I have seen a few who had done several shoots and were still at Stage 1). Stage 2 – “Tell me what to do.” This is where the model has to be given complete instructions for each pose. It’s more like a sitting in a portrait studio than a model shoot. “Move your left hand a couple of inches to the right. Close up those fingers; you don’t want them splayed like that. Tilt your head to the left. No, your other left.” Stage 3 – Canned poses. The model learns several canned poses and cycles through them at each shoot. Most of the models on MM won’t get beyond this stage – unless they get the DVD’s, work with a pose coach or find someone else who can help them. Stage 4 – Modeling in motion. The model makes one or more small, incremental changes in pose after each shot. An incremental change might be changing the tilt of her head, changing the position of one or both arms, shifting her legs, changing the bend of her body, changing the direction where she’s facing (head or body), etc., etc. The list is endless. Usually a change in pose is accompanied by a change in expression. Once a model is good at Stage 4 modeling, she will know instinctively what “looks good” in the photograph, she can often give 12-15 quality poses per minute (ppm). The fastest model I’ve worked with did about 20 ppm. Anything faster than that is kinda useless, since the photographer has to focus for each shot, reframe the image, etc. Once a model has mastered Stage 4, she can put her body on autopilot and focus her attention on her facial expressions. Stage 5 is all about giving quality, storytelling expressions that are appropriate to the lighting, mood, pose, concept or theme, wardrobe, purpose of the images, etc., every time or almost every time. That is the most difficult part of modeling. When a model has mastered Stages 4 and 5, she has arrived. Her skills are up there with the top models, and the main differences between them are usually the model's look and modeling style, details and nuances. I can get more and better images from a model who's at Stage 4 or 5 in 5 minutes than with a model who's at Stage 2 in an hour. It’s not like the whole shoot is at 12-15 ppm (poses per minute). You may only have one or maybe two bursts at these rates per hour, and they only last a minute or so. Then we take a breath, let the camera dump images from the buffer to the CF card, regroup and do something else. At other times it may be something like 4-6 ppm. A certain speed is not the objective. But when everything comes together and the shoot is working right and everything is just flowing, that’s when the speed builds – and that’s when the best shots usually come.
Thu May 24 03:14 2012 in reply to _ Robyn Elizabeth _
Season of the Flakes- needs a button in General Industry
Photographers not communicating with their local photographers -- their loss, in my book. I will observe that the energy to participate in all these proposed rating schemes is 100x the effort to check references. It amazes me that people are willing to punish models for allegedly flaking on them instead of applying "an ounce of prevention" to improve their chances. It also amazes me that people are willing to take the word of a stranger/photographer simply because he accuses a model, all without hearing the model's side of the story. You don't want to be responsible for the model's behavior. Fine. But understand that if a client hires you and if you fail to deliver because a model flaked on you, your client will hold you (and not your model) responsible. You may cry "it's not my fault", but your client will disagree with you. Earlier, you mentioned an agency canning a model who flaked, and somehow you interpreted that as the agency not taking responsibility for the model. Again, I disagree. The photographer who got the model through the agency will hold the agency responsible for sending him a model who flaked. The agency canned the model to protect itself & its reputation and to protect its customer, the photographer. That's the agency being professional, and the agency is taking responsibility for the model's behavior. I admit that it can be confusing when I use the word "you" -- it could mean "you" (Tony) or "you" (generic). There is a wide range of possible approaches to "flakes": ... Due diligence (like me), ... Take a chance and move on after a flake (like Tony), ... Demand calls, a deposit, a call on the day, a preshoot meeting, etc. (like some), ... Post a rant on a forum (like several), ... Demand a ratings system (like several), ... Demand the banning (and tar & feathering) of flaking models (like some), ... etc. My position has been & still is ... ... people who refuse to do due diligence before agreeing to work with models have no business complaining when they get burned. ... open-minded people should be unwilling to condemn and/or punish a model for allegedly flaking based on the word of a disgruntled stranger. ... rating systems are primarily intended to punish models, regardless of how it is dressed up. ... rating systems will take a significant effort to implement & administer, and that alone makes such a scheme impractical. ... Proponents of ratings systems often point out that other sites have ratings systems, but they fail to point out that these sites have revenue, lawyers on retainer, and with all that, many don't allow negative feedback. Ah. So you are social! I guess you just don't have any photographer friends. Ah, I see -- it's okay to let off steam about alleged flakes, but it is not okay to resist the proposed schemes that punish models without due process or recourse? It is not okay to counter impractical schemes that would make MM a less friendly & more expensive place? At least, on these forums, the posts aren't exactly anonymous -- we know a little about the OP and the other participants, including me, Tony, and everyone else. Most of the rating systems proposed are anonymous. If rating systems are anonymous, any disgruntled a-hole with a skosh Internet Bravado can ruin anyone else's reputation, whether it is deserved or not. I will also point out that you have brought up my good flake ratio three times, and I have not brought it up once. I'll stop posting when people stop trying to punish models with any form of a ratings system. Until then, I'll oppose such schemes. Be prepared.
Thu May 17 10:05 2012 in reply to Tony Lawrence
What to call hobby models in General Industry
Model is a verb. Professionals if they are good at it get work. 80% of that work will not be paid for by photographers. The people who pay are those generally who can see what the verb means. It doesn't mean 'pretty girl'. It means the worth of the model to actually carry out the verb. If she is good she will get paid if she markets herself to those who actually require models. Photographers don't always need models; they may just want subjects. The hobby model probably won't understand this. If she begins to and can model she will get paid work; though not necessarily from photographers. I would say to see it as pros v hobbyists is too simple a delineation. There are wannabes. They may genuinely have a desitre to or commitment to wanting to become a model. Some will know what that involves; some won't. Some may succeed. Most will not realise what it is. They think it's about pretty too. Some just want to be famous or are doing it for an ego thing. There are amateur models who do it for the Art. This group generally are among the best models because they tend to have a creative desire. Some will be artists in their own right; with their own creative concepts. Because they are often having to do something else as a day job however they won't always be available. Those that make the commitment and develop extraordinary portfolios will eventually turn pro. Then there are models who make money from glamour type images on the net; or in publications or a little of both. That groups has its own amateur to pro and reader's wives to high quality artistic poles too. I don't think 'hobbyists' describe any of these main groups or the different types within them very well. It also does not differentiate between the flake types and the committed. 'Hobbyist' sounds a little like they are playing at it. Amateur sounds better to me probably because it just simply denotes they are not professional ie not paid for, or making a living from, their skills - as yet. Those who model professionally make a living from it because they can. They have it as their only source of income. They are likely either to be Agency signed; or the journeyman model getting modelling work from the Fine Art/Art institution/Artist group field; the fashion, fitting and parts modelling fields; promotional work; or in film/theatre/acting singing dancing related fields. They may do vintage or burlesque or perhaps a little of that. They may have a character look or a speciliased wardrobe or style look eg 'alt' that they have developed enough to be in demand. Or they may be doing a bit of pro modelling and a bit of styling/MUA/photography for example.Then there are the semi professionals. Those getting to that stage of it being their main source of income. Or those that do it (like myself) as an extra source of income having moved from being a professional model into another field of work. We are able to charge for a day's work because some value our skills. Often this will be designers, boutiques, artists, educational institutions, PR/marketing companies, or even businesses contacting one directly via a reference. Sometimes and only sometimes it's photographers. What I notice is that some photographers around here are pretty contemptuous of models full stop. Particularly MM ones . Makes me wonder why they do it and why they are here in the forums generally moaning about flakes; lack of professionalism, and greed by those who are professional because they dare to ask for pay. And if they dare ask for pay for modelling nude why they are strippers. So to me the question depends entirely on the person using the label and what they want to infer by it.
Wed May 16 12:50 2012 in reply to VisualE
What makes a MUA or hair stylist want to shoot TF? in Hair, Makeup & Styling
The MUA's and MUAH's I have worked with on a TF basis tell me that they prefer that the photographer contact them with an overview of the plan for the shoot, along with a link to the model's page. There may be others who prefer to work with the model, then let the model find a photographer. I don't know. As with anyone else who does TF, the MUA reserves the right to decide which models/shoots/concepts/dates he/she will work TF. Since I can't guarantee that I can provide an MUA, I don't mention this in my profile - or in my initial contact with a model, unless an MUA has already expressed an interest in working with the model. These MUA's first identify a photographer or photographers they would like to work with. Then the photographer proposes shoots to them (at least the model and genre or concept), and the MUA decides. While I have managed to find an MUA who was available on a specific date, it's more likely to work if we schedule the shoot around the MUA's schedule to begin with. I have never contacted an MUA with a request that she work a specific shoot without having established in advance that the MUA is interested in working with me. In my experience the process usually works one of two ways. 1) I contact the model to determine whether she is interested in a shoot. If so, and if I think an MUA will be interested, I contact an MUA. 2) I discuss the model and genre or concept with an MUA before contacting the model. There have been exceptions. One MUA contacted me to express an interest in working a shoot with a model in my portfolio. I've tried three times to get them together, but it hasn't worked out yet. (The MUA lives four hours from St. Louis in one direction, and the model lives three hours from St. Louis in the opposite direction. When one was going to be in St. Louis, the other couldn't be.) One MUA asked me to shoot a model with whom she has worked in several fashion shows. Most MUA's are very specific in the types of shoots in which they are interested in doing TF - only fashion shoots with models who are 5'8" or taller who have "the look" for fashion, for example. Some decide on a case-by-case basis. Some MUA's have contacted me first to express an interest in doing TF shoots. In other cases, I have contacted the MUA first. The busier the MUA, the more difficult it is to schedule a shoot. For example, I had scheduled a shoot with a model and MUA for late March. The shoot was booked with the model and MUA in early February. The model was invited to interview with an agency in Chicago on the day of the shoot and postponed with 2-3 days' notice. The MUA suggested we try to reschedule for a Monday in June. At the other extreme, I have managed to schedule a shoot with a model and MUA with about ten days' notice. Lately I have a "secret weapon" - an MUA who is in a position where she works with many other MUA's, who has offered to help me find an MUA for a specific date/shoot (with a least a week's notice). I can't say why this MUA is in this position without making it very easy for anyone to figure out who she is. Obviously I don't want to go to this MUA too often - so in most cases I try to find another MUA first.
Mon May 14 08:34 2012 in reply to Dani Vespa
Why am I not getting booked...every week? in General Feedback
Many of the suggestions here are spot on. Yes, you have a good look. Your portfolio does not represent you well. Just as models often judge a photographer by the quality of his models, photographers (often subconsciously, I suspect) judge a model by the quality of the images in her port. In other words, the question (whether consciously defined or not) is not, "Do I want this model in my portfolio?" It's "Do I want images like these in my portfolio?" I try to look past the quality of images and look at the model's look - and the quality of her poses and expressions. But I still consider the overall quality of the images as well. Yes, you have several good images. You also have several that are not sharp, not well lit, not retouched well, and look like shapshots. In some cases you have too many images from the same shoot. This is often taken as compensating for a lack of experience. The general rule is that a model should have only one photo from each makeup/hair/wardrobe combination. The exception is if there are two shots that are very different - a headshot and a full-length pose, for example. Several models have told me that they like to see multiple images from the same shoot in a photographer's portfolio, just to see that the photographer can produce more than one good image per shoot (while they adhere to the premise that a model should have only one). Still, for the most part I have only one image from each set, even if I have to agonize over which one(s) not to use. It's also true that your port lacks focus. What type of model are you? What do you do best? You might want to consider having two ports - one for nude, glamour, implieds, swimwear and lingerie - and another for fashion, editorial, lifestyle, etc. It's true that swimwear and lingerie can also be fashion - but the fashion look is very different, even for these types of garments. And yes, LA is a very competitive market. I would take Ken Marcus' comments very seriously. He is one of a handful of current photographers whose work I admire most, and many consider him to be the best ever at his genre. Yes, there are some models (many of whom are traveling models, especially traveling nude models) who make a living strictly from Model Mayhem. For most, though, MM probably isn't enough to generate a substantial income. The full-time models I know, and others who generate a substantial part of their income from modeling, have told me that MM is not the best place to launch a modeling career. The more success they have outside of MM, the more income they generate from MM - and for most of them, 10-15% of their modeling income comes from MM. At least half a dozen model friends have told he that they found this book helpful, and one said that, if had been available when she first started modeling, it would have saved her five years in getting her career launched. http://www.modelmayhem.com/489446
Sun May 13 21:24 2012 in reply to Brittany Lauren Menendez
I had some fun last night...... in Photography Talk
I tried to do something I hadn't done before, which is difficult for me because I've done this for a long time, plus I get comfortably numb. Anyway, the model wanted to go to the beach and shoot late at night........no. Been there, done that, everything goes black behind the model and the photos get boring to me. We did something like that two weeks ago, you can see a sample below: [img]http://www.johnfisher.com/images/1splashdance3392fsnn.jpg[/img] Model: Destinee Smith, Las Olas Models and Talent and Karen Greer Model Management. It looks good, the model has a great figure (obviously), but there is no real separation from the background. By the way, it was so dark I couldn't see the model through the viewfinder. Really. When I pushed down on the shutter button the model lit up slightly from the infra red focusing assist (I was using the Canon 580 EX II speedlight). And the camera actually focused in light so low I couldn't see the model through the view finder. (Canon EOS 7D, but I'm sure other cameras with a similar speedlight would do the same.) So, I did have an option. The pool at Southgate Towers is available to me (I live there), so down we went with some auxiliary lighting equipment. I get all ready to shoot and immediately run into a problem (I hadn't thought the issues out completely in advance, no surprise there). My idea was to back light the model and the water with a strobe (in this case, an Einstein 640 monolight powered by the Vagabond Mini power supply). The problem? The light will be on the other side of the pool, and I'm going to fire it with a Cybersync which mounts on the hot shoe. Ooookay, how do I front light the model? I didn't bring a second monolight (I thought about using a ringlight) which I could have done except I didn't have a second remote power supply. (Note to self, get a second Vagabond Mini!) I intended to use a speed light, but if I use the monolight, I've lost the hot shoe! Okay, necessity is the mother of invention. Maybe if I locate the monolight in the right place, and defuse the speedlight, it might "see" the speedlight and fire anyway. If I located the monolight to the side of the pool (instead of behind the model) it worked, but now I've lost one of the primary reasons I brought the monolight in the first place. BUT... I noticed one of the lights around the pool area was casting an interesting color on the surface of the pool. Problem, it looks good in real life, but the speedlight lighting the model completely overpowers the light being reflected on the water. So.. what I did was slow the shutter speed down to 1/10th of second to burn in the reflected light. This should cause no end of blur, I'm hand holding the camera and any slight movement by the model would be a major problem. The key to making the shot work (as has been discussed many times when using strobes in a studio) is that the main light provided by the speedlight has such a fast pulse (probably less than 1/2000's of a second) that the speedlight freezes the model, and you don't see any motion blur in spite of the fact that the shutter remains open for a (relatively) long time! [img]http://www.johnfisher.com/images/1destinee0268fglowlips.jpg[/img] Model: Destinee Smith, Las Olas Models and Karen Greer Model Management. Everything worked, I got the light on the water behind the model from the lamp lighting the deck area, the speedlight lit the model, and the monolight lit the water on the right side of the image as well as highlighting the models hair and provided a little rim light on her body. It didn't require a lot of equipment. A camera, a fast 70-200 zoom, a speedlight and a monolight (with a simple 7 inch reflector) and paying attention to the lights around the pool. And of course, a beautiful model. The shot presented the kind of problems that make the business interesting, and I learned a little in the process. Nothing went the way I orginally planned, but it worked out anyway. One thing I should mention is that I was using a Canon 5D Mark II, which is why I couldn't use the built in speedlight (it doesn't have one) and still have the hot shoe available for the Cybersync. It was an adventure, but I really like the picture which is why I took the time to write about the shoot. John -- John Fisher 900 West Avenue, Suite 633 Miami Beach, Florida 33139 305 534-9322 http://www.johnfisher.com
Sun May 13 12:33 2012
Usage Agreements, too restrictive? in Photography Talk
I have a paid shoot set up for tomorrow and today the guys's agent or co=model as he calls himself sent me an "agreement" for me to sign. See below. It eve requires my date and place of birth and to me seems very restroctove. In addition I got a PDF showing all photos in my port he does not wan t to do. FYI this uss NOT a nude shoot. Since I am paying I don't want him controlling the pics I make.. Naturally I would not do any they he feklt uncomnfortabek with. If HE were paying ME I might be inclined to sign this but not when I am oaying. The agreement forbids my posting them on MM or using them in any of my portfolios. My query is, How common are these agreements which are all one sided in favor if the mdel. Do models expect ot get work with such restrictioins on the employer? Thoughts anyone? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- TEXT OF AGREEMENT ---------------------------------------------------------------------- PHOTO SHOOT AGREEMENT For good and valuable consideration as detailed herein and below, I, __XXXXXXX__________________, “stage” name _______________________ hereinafter referred to as the MODEL, and I, ____YYYYYYYY-______________________, “stage” name _________________________ hereinafter referred to as the CO-MODEL, and I, _____Stanley Moore__________________, “business” name _______________________, hereinafter referred to as the PHOTOGRAPHER, enter into this agreement regulating the ownership and use of photographs and derivative works based thereupon (collectively hereafter the "PHOTOS") taken by Photographer of Model on the date of ________May 12th, 2012_________________________ for all lawful purposes, subject to the terms and conditions described below. This two-page agreement, is offered by the MODEL named hereinabove under the following terms: FOR PARTIAL NUDE, FULL NUDE, ARTISTIC, IMPLIED and NON-NUDE IMAGES: 1. The PHOTOGRAPHER will pay for any and all photographic (film and/or digital/electronic) supplies and/or (shooting time and film development) services and/or any other expenses in exchange for the PHOTOGRAPHER’S services. 2. The PHOTOTGRAPHER will pay the MODEL $ $50 per hour/per day. 3. All images of the MODEL shall be sent by U.S. Mail, or in hand, to the MODEL in the form of film slides, 4” x 6”, 5” x 7” or 8” x 10” prints, or digitized images on compact disc (CD) or Digital Versatile Disc (DVD) at a minimum of 1000 pixels high or wide, or any combination thereof, saved at the highest quality, at the MODEL’S expense within _2__ week(s) from said photo shoot listed in this release. 4. Any PHOTO(s) of the MODEL, in whole or in part in its factual format, including, but not limited to digital format, MAY NOT be used in the advertising and/or publicity, including print, film/video, radio, or digital/electronic portfolios (internet/intranet), for the work of the PHOTOGRAPHER unless MODEL provides written consent. 5. Any PHOTO(s) of the MODEL, in whole or in part, MAY be used and/or reproduced by the MODEL at will and/or by his/her modeling agencies/managers in the course of the MODEL’S self-promotion as a model. 6. Any image(s) of the MODEL, in whole or in part, provided from the PHOTOGRAPHER’S work, as outlined in this agreement, SHALL NOT be made available for commercial or private use to any person or entity. If the PHOTOGRAPHER and the MODEL mutually agree that certain images have potential commercial use, a separate agreement shall be signed by both parties to outline such use. 7. Should the PHOTOGRAPHER intentionally, negligently, or otherwise release or be the source of the release or disclosure of the PHOTOS to any third party without prior written consent from MODEL, the PHOTOGRAPHER shall indemnify the Disclosing Party from any and all losses, claims, damages, attorney’s fees, court costs, response and recovery costs and other costs, of whatever kind or nature, resulting from such release or disclosure. 8. This Agreement shall be governed by the laws of the State of Texas Photographer Initials ______ Model Initials ______ Co-Model Initials _______ PHOTO SHOOT AGREEMENT (continued) TO BE COMPLETED BY THE MODEL: By signing this agreement, I certify that I am age ____, born on month, day and year of ____________________ in the city and state of ______________________________. Model’s Signature: __ ____ Date: ____/____/____ Printed Name: _____ Stage Name: _____ Address: _____ Phone(s): _____ Email: _____ TO BE COMPLETED BY THE PHOTOGRAPHER: By signing this agreement, I certify that I am age ____, born on month, day and year of ____________________ in the city and state of ______________________________. Photographer’s Signature: __ ____ Date: ____/____/____ Printed Name: _____ Company Name: _____ Address: _____ Phone(s): _____ Email: _____ TO BE COMPLETED BY THE WITNESS: By signing this agreement, I certify that I am age ____, born on month, day and year of ____________________ in the city and state of ______________________________. Co-Model’s Signature: __ ____ Date: ____/____/____ Printed Name: _____ Company Name: _____ Address: _____ Phone(s): _____ Email: _____ .........................................................
Fri May 11 10:05 2012
Scam? in General Industry
PRESS RELEASE FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: CONTACT: May 2 2012 Alex Tcharinova 264 La Cienega Blvd Suite 588 424-645-7336 email@example.com The Ultimate Model Career Promotion Service Solution: New Model Talent Agency Report Reveals How Anyone Can Become famous The modeling agency industry just got its wake-up call: Modelstopia.com latest innovation: Online Career Modeling submission platform for algorithmic talent matching HYPERLINK: www.ModelsTopia.com Beverly Hills CA has officially put the Modeling industry on notice: Starting a career in modeling is now faster, easier and more affordable than ever before. As Alex Tcharinova added, “Our Online Career Modeling submission platform for algorithmic talent matching” has gone the Modeling industry one better. Where most companies in this market fail in getting their models discovered our platform provides proper exposure and sees models developing highly successful results Alex Tcharinova with Modelstopia.com has identified not being discovered, unsafe work environments and substance and sexual abuse as most important to models when it comes to Job security : Because the employers are accountable to our company through our program, models will avoid not being discovered, unsafe work environments and substance and sexual abuse. The not being discovered and inefficient traditional modelling agencies are just part of an entire modeling revolution solution. The complete step-by-step solution is fully documented the site, Modelstopia.com For media inquiries, to arrange for an interview or an expert quote, please contact Alex Tcharinova at 424-645-7336 Alex Tcharinova has years of experience in promoting models. Modelstopia.com has been recognized by the modeling and fashion industries for its revolutionary streamlined achievements in modeling career launches. Alex Tcharinova is a member of Modelstopia.com and is headquartered in Beverly hills CA and overseas the Online Career Modeling submission platform for algorithmic talent matching. Received this e-mail. It was sent out massively... I can even see all the e-mails of the people it was sent to. I'm assuming it's a scam, but I thought I better check with all you wonderful wise one's on MM!
Mon Apr 30 07:01 2012
do yourself a favor and do NOT use your real name in Model Colloquy
OP: quick tip for models, if a photographer promises something, like say he won't show your nipple, you should get it in writing. model #1: who the FUCK are you to tell a model what to do? model #2: i will NOT be made ashamed of MY body! photographer #1: OP is apparently not aware that the nude plays an important role in art. personally, i believe in art. model #3: Quote: "personally, i believe in art." OMG - that is sooooo well put. photographer #2: your post is irrelevant. thanks to obama, the government can already see thru your clothes at the airport. photographer #3: you could maybe airbrush out the nipple using photoshop. OP: guys, it was just a suggestion. to clarify: some models might be glad if they confirm usage limitations in writing. plus some boss might might see it one day and make a big deal about it. model #1: you disgust me so much i can't stand it. i hate every single word that comes out of your mouth, especially the way you use the word "plus" like you're better than everyone else. i show my nipples at work whenever i feel like it and if my boss gets upset, i tell him "too fuckin' bad" and he always back down. SO FUCK YOU. model #4: i have a big dick and i show it to people all the time. model #5: i actually think it's a really good idea to get those promises in writing. OP: quote: "i actually think it's a really good idea to get those promises in writing." bless you - lol model #6: oh great. OP wants us to be more paranoid than we already are. thanks asshole. MODERATOR: actually, we get emails from models every day who have had this happen to them, so you just might want to be safe rather than sorry. model #1: quote: "actually, we get emails from models every day who have had this happen to them." really? are you sure? that doesn't sound right because i'm 21 and i've never heard of it. OP: quote: "actually, we get emails from models every day who have had this happen to them." thank you. thank you. thank you. photographer #5: so what? janet jackson showed her nipple on tv. she didn't have a release for it. OP: quote: "so what? janet jackson showed her nipple on tv. she didn't have a release for it." WTF? - this has NOTHING to do with janet jackson. she is irrelevant to the discussion photographer #6: why, because it doesn't matter what happens to a black woman? photographer #7: my friend in college had a third nipple so your theory doesn't really apply. model #7: Quote: "personally, i believe in art" oh wow. i couldn't agree more. OP: guys, i shoot nudes all the time. nothing to be ashamed of for the model or the photographer. all i'm saying is life will look very different as a 40 year adult. model #8: did you just have the nerve to say that models are not adults? i know a model who has a child with learning disabilities so fuck off you creepy pervert. obviously you hate women AND children with disabilities. photographer #8: does anyone know if you can wear nipple clamps for like a month? model #1: quote: "obviously you hate women AND children with disabilities." +1,000,000. OP: somebody please, just shoot me.
Mon Apr 23 08:08 2012
Unusual Agency contract? in General Industry
I am having issues with a contact I received by an 'agency'. The issues I personally am having (I must say I don't know the first things about agencies, so advice is appreciated) are bold. I am not even sure how the thing started, I guess the phone just rang, at some point last week, and it never occurred to me to ask the guy on the other end of the line how he got my phone number. He does not seem too familiar with mm either, he was unsure of 'all the pictures being viewable'... He's in Indianapolis, I am in Ca. He knows I am moving next month, and his last email to me read : I apologize for the lack of communication. However, I have been in contact with several photographers in the Dallas area. I am in the process of collecting names and phone numbers and should have the list to you in an excel format for you tomorrow.They are really good and if you would like i can send you some samples from their portfolios. *snip* I am also in the process of finalizing my website and reformating the images it should be fixed within two weeks. Please let me know if you have any questions. (The website is terrible. I saw a couple of actual Models on there, but the image quality is bad, and the sizing made everything distorted. I don't think that ladies who enjoy a certain reputation would go with a guy who sits in his 'home office' and has his friends make his website, and call himself an agency... And here's the contract:) Model's Employment Contract ________________________ (hereafter "Model") and First Impressions hereby enter into an agreement to the terms below: Model hereby engages First Impressions to direct, develop, and advance Model's career as a model. Model understand that he/she is able to work with other agencies as long as it doesn’t conflict with First Impressions obligations Model agrees to pay Agency 20 percent of all gross revenues that Model may receive in return for modeling services provided to any other party. Model agrees to refer all requests for Model's modeling services to Agency for negotiation, engagement, and collection of revenues. The term of this agreement shall be one year from the date that Model signs it, and shall renew automatically for one additional year unless the agreement is terminated. Either party may terminate this agreement with 30 days' written notice to the other party. First Impressions is hereby authorized to use Model's name, likeness, description, biographical information, and any other information available to direct, develop, and advance Model's career as a model during the time that this agreement is in force. I understand the entering in said contract does not guarantee that I will be selected by third parties to perform promotion modeling services. I understand that First Impression is responsible for the promotion & scheduling of auditions and other third party services. I understand that I am able to refuse any job given to me by First Impressions,without penalty, any jobs, engagements or obligations that might interfere with any obligations & events that I deem important for the growth and development of model. The laws of Indianashall govern this agreement and any disputes arising from either party's performance. In witness to their agreement to the terms of this contract, the parties affix their signatures below: Model’s Guardian , signature & date Agency, signature & date If you're interested in taking a look at the site, and then giving me your $0.02, pm me. I hope that guy didn't steal images from anyone, and if he did, there will be hell to pay (I know where he lives)!
Sun Apr 22 16:17 2012
Models who defy conventions in Model Colloquy
Any modelling niche has their particular criterias : height, look, measurements, age, etc. That said, some successful models tend to defy these criterias and manage to make their way in a niche that wasn't, at first, the one they would have belong too. They are exceptions, but still very inspirational. This thread is meant to acknowledge these models and celebrate the one that defies what we would have thought impossible! Here are some of these models (not restricted to fashion, but that's the field I know most so hence why I'm showing fashion models) : ::::: Anja Konstantinova (Gattina) 5'4'' ::::: Fashion model signed with these agencies : Priscilla (Sydney), Models 1 (London), Viva model management (Paris), Marilyn (NY), Bravo (Tokyo) Note that she even walked Sydney Fashion Week! [img]http://i.models.com/i/db/2012/4/92406/92406-800w.jpg[/img] Source : Vogue Japan May 2012 [img]http://i.models.com/i/db/2012/4/92355/92355-800w.jpg[/img] Source : Marie-Claire UK December 2011 ::::: Zipora Seven 5'6'' ::::: Fashion model signed with these agencies : Viva (London), Viva Model management (Paris), Bon Image corp. (Tokyo) [img]http://i.models.com/i/db/2010/11/32857/32857-800w.jpg[/img] DKNY Resort 2010 ::::: Kati Nescher started carreer at 26 years old!, now 27 ::::: Fashion model signed with these agencies : DNA (NY), Viva Model management (Paris), Why Not (Milan), Viva (London), AM Modelmanagement (Germany) She's also ranked #31 on the Top 50 Model! [img]http://i.models.com/i/db/2011/12/74368/74368-800w.jpg[/img] Louis Vuitton S/S 2012 [img]http://i.models.com/i/db/2012/2/79976/79976-800w.jpg[/img] Alexander McQueen S/S 2012 X. LC
Tue Apr 17 07:37 2012
Needing Help For Writing A Wiki Guide On Modeling in Model Colloquy
Dear Friends I have just recently decided to embark on a project which involves creating a sort of general walk through for modeling for our local models in Malaysia It would be a sort of wiki guide in terms that I would first set down the general foundation for it based on my analysis on our local scene then set out to to improve upon it by gathering feedback and various perspectives from the industry Although I understand that there are certain factors in the portrait scene which is region specific, I also understand that there are a lot of factors in modeling which is pretty much global too So far this is the foundation of which I have come out with so far ************************************************ Model Wiki : How To Get Started & Become A Successful Portrait Model v1.0 ************************************************ The first thing you should know modeling is : Models Are Not Born, They Are Made. All successful models are where they are because of their hard work. Relying on looks alone won’t get you far. Although being born beautiful can be helpful, 8 out of 10 times it does not guarantee you will be a successful model. My definition of successful modeling is getting paid to model, getting paid well and getting paid often. To make things simple, I have broken down successful modeling into 4 decisive parts 1 ) Make Up ( Art ) 2 ) Portfolio ( Marketing ) 3 ) Performance ( Skill ) 4 ) Work Ethic ( Professionalism ) ***** 1 ) Make Up ( Art ) ***** I keep on hearing people saying that there are no ugly women, only lazy women. No doubt one of the marketing ploys of those evil make up corporations =P However, after a period of observation comparing the portfolios of our local models with overseas talents, I realized how true this is. In overseas I think the women there make up every day, its like a consumer culture there which force every woman to do make up every day. Like last time I saw every woman overseas they wear heavy make up to work or university every day. Locally in Malaysia the girls seldom wear elaborate make up, maybe it’s just the culture or the weather not comfortable for it I don’t know. Anyways, if you want to be successful in modeling, having above average make up skill is a must. This is especially true since the most portrait organizers do not allocate budget for make up artist ( assuming you start here ) Having better make up is an essential key in creating an impressive portfolio. If you know that make up is your weakness then I guess it is time for you to watch those youtube make up vids ***** 2 ) Portfolio ( Marketing ) ***** A good portfolio is a collection of photos which shows and highlights the unique talents you have to offer as a model In my opinion, your portfolio should contain at least one set of photos which has basic editing ( nothing fancy ) containing face, half body and full body After this basic set, variation would be a plus as the variety of portfolios you have would also show your work experience and it can also provide an estimation on the range themes of which you are suitable for. ***** 3 ) Performance ( Skill ) ***** All too often I hear photographers tell each other that a particular model can pose herself automatically, and how great she is etc etc. In general, models who are able to pose well by themselves have greater demand. Reason is because if the model can pose herself, the photographer need only make minor adjustments to the pose to achieve the desired result. This frees up precious time and concentration to focus on art direction. Posing has to do with the control of your body and facial muscles. Just like music, the more you practice the more familiar you will become with the process and with that the more confident you will look and feel. Below are the breakdown of a pose to aid you in your understanding about posing. *** The Anatomy Of A Pose *** Body - The body is the base of any pose, it provides the foundation for the pose Facial expression - The face gives emotion to the pose, it provides the soul for the pose Body Language - Hands are an essential part of body language, hand posing provides sophistication and flair to the pose *** Influential Factors *** Visualization - You will not be able to pose well if you have no mental image of how your pose will look like. It is recommended that you look at fashion magazines or works of your favorite photographers or models then practice the same poses in front of the mirror so you can know how the pose would look like on you. Experience - Knowing which pose to use in which situation takes experience, the more shoots you do the more you will better in this department. ***** 4 ) Work Ethic ( Professionalism ) ***** Being the best model in the world would mean nothing if you fail to show up on time for the shoot or if you show up on the shoot being all tired coz you partied all night last night The basic general rules are * Show up on time * Be in tip top condition to perform * Listen to instructions but be smart also of course Remember, a modeling job is still a job. ***** Economically And Practically Speaking ***** In terms of demand, each of the factors below have a cumulative way of generating demand for your work, the more demand you generate that would generally mean higher rates you will get for your work * Your portfolio gets you your job * You practicing your poses will ensure that you perform during the job * And your work ethic keeps the jobs coming Once you have achieved a threshold amount of demand and audience base, it is likely that you will attract the attention of bigger more commercialized establishments. Although following this guide is by no means the only way of achieving success, I strongly believe that the illustrated points in this guide covers the main factors which strongly influences the outcome of any modeling career. Should there be anything i missed out or if you have any feedback please do not hesitate to let me know. I can be reached at firstname.lastname@example.org. ************************************************ End Of Wiki Guide ************************************************ I apologize in advance if my conclusions based on my analysis on our local scene seem naive. Should you notice have some point of which I may have missed out or some point of which I may have mis-analyzed please let me know Your feedback would be most valuable for me Thank you so much
Sun Apr 15 21:27 2012
Models rate is to high without sounding rude in General Industry
Which is a pricing model that is fast being eroded away due to photographers having so many choices, hence why most models will reasonably bend their rates to accommodate a photographer that is offering a reasonable payment. Contrary to popular belief- a model's or photographer's worth (in the client's eyes) isn't predicated on how much the client can make from their work, but rather whether or not the model or photographer's work can be easily generated by someone else at a cheaper price for the same or nearly the same result. Obviously this doesn't pertain to famous models/photographers. A new average-looking model might want to charge $800 or more for the day, but she'd be hard pressed to get it if all she's doing is modeling for one photographer as it's too easy to find a model to do the same for less than half that daily rate that can produce the same result. Exceptions exist- I'm talking about the rule. In 1997 I shot a gal for the web, that looked (for the lack of a better description) like a real-life Barbi doll. It was the highest price I have ever been paid for photographing a model, and I shot her for about 30-45min if that. She made four figures from basically 30 min. of actual work, and I'm sure the corporate site made a killing from her photographs. Today, she couldn't get that rate if her life depended on it because the web is saturated and even though her look was very unique, the saturation of online glamour and porn, has killed the freshness of the whole industry from print, film, television, and of course the web. I can skip over to most National Universities is the U.S. and find a competent gal to model by the end of the day. To the OP. This is business to a lot of photographers and models. Don't worry about the thin-skinned folk and conduct yourself like any reasonable person would. If a model's rate is too high for you, then simply offer your best rate as a counter offer. If the model accepts it great! If the model doesn't, then wish that model the best, and find another model. Too easy *** Be sure to keep track of the prices that model's quote you, and the price that you've actually found that you can pay to get the model that you need in order to get the job done. You'll start to build up a nice data base that will provide you with a great guideline for your future work when you need a model. Depending on where you're located, prices will vary, but you'll see a definite trend. Two distinct realities exist: What people want to be paid, and what people typically accept because they need money... Let common sense and good reason be the guide as to what you pay or how you barter. Best in modeling and photography to you all
Thu Apr 12 10:03 2012 in reply to Gloria Budiman
'you don't seem like a model to me' in Model Colloquy
I asked my friend permission to discuss this here and I finally got around to it: A few weeks ago I was talking to a friend that told me he feels that all models are one trick ponies that have no skills and are handed freakish amounts of money to simply do nothing. After laughing hysterically and explaining to him that I am constantly stressed out, living on a shoestring and frequently having to decide between eating a proper meal and purchasing beauty supplies, I talked to him about the differences in modeling (agency vs. freelance, and style by style) what goes into a shoot, and the skills you do actually have to have. I even confided that I was raised by an oldschool feminist, and have been wanting to do a project or some charity events that showcase other intelligent, well-rounded models, with the proceeds going to women's education and to encourage young girls to follow whatever career they choose, and help break the 'stupid model' stereotype. He said 'wow, to me you don't even seem like a model' I felt like he was saying I didn't 'seem like a model' because I had been well-educated and cared about things. Anyway it struck a chord with me and I got to thinking about some other 'model stereotypes' that people outside the modeling world like to use. I mentioned I was raised by a hardcore feminist. When I lived with my mother I did exclusively promotional for awhile, and now that I spend 90% of my time out of the house, and have been shooting up a storm, she's brought it up many times when i see her. The one that stuck with me the most is that all models are denigrating to women, and as a model I am wasting my intelligence and participating in a male dominated industry that exists solely to perpetuate the objectification of women. Because of this I am a failure and a disappointment not only as her daughter, but to all women as a whole. She's mentally ill, and incapable of 'learning' a new opinion, so I mostly just smile and nod through being called a slut and failure. However, I took some of her 'teachings' to heart and I do spend time donating/volunteering in women's causes and rub elbows with a lot of women that hold less extreme versions of that view and will snark me behind my back or treat me as a joke. other things i've heard: - I don't always make money at shoots (TF). I must not be that good of a model/'you shoot constantly, you must be loaded, why can't you go out to dinner with us?' - You're thin, you're perpetuating the stereotype that only thin women are beautiful (my favorite for this one is when the bigger girls at my college laud praise on plus size models and talk about how beautiful and 'real' they are while throwing me evil glances and snorting when i come back from the gym) - the 'if you can do it I can do it attitude.' Girls constantly ask me to bring them on shoots, or pressure photographers I know to shoot them. Girls that seriously want to be models are fine, but a lot of the girls I've dealt with that do this are trying to make a point that i'm not pretty/the girls above that think i'm not a 'real woman' because of my weight/modeling is easy and I'm just a whine for being stressed constantly - i must be self-absorbed/shallow/too stupid/unskilled to hold any other career - I only do this because I want attention from men Do you experience 'model hate' or negative stereotypes because you're a model? What are some instances you've dealt with? Are you a feminist? What are your views on your career vs. your beliefs? (I'm quite interested in this one, because the only literature I can find on the subject is ex-models that stopped because they felt their careers were in conflict with their beliefs, and I kind of want to do a 'roundup' of sorts) Who do you get your model hate from? Family, friends, strangers? How do you handle it? Ignore? Educate? Other? Any other thoughts you have are welcome. I ponder strange things sometimes I guess. Like I said I'm interested in actively trying to break the 'model stereotype' and any input on your experiences will give me loads to think about and address if I ever get my project off the ground, and help me deal in day to day life with people that are anti-model.
Mon Apr 9 18:38 2012
I'm short... Agencies? in Model Colloquy
Since when did suggesting someone to look into nude modeling became a degrading act? People are giving the OP some realistic advice. They didn't say she should pose nude. They said she should exercise the though of doing nudes, if she's can't get agency representation. If you travel overseas, pick up the European version of Vogue, Maxim and other fashion magazines there. They have nudity in them. Something to think about. Remember that link I posted yesterday? I'm posting it again today. BTW, someone decided to do study on height and agency represented models. The numbers are not the OP's side. This is the source. A study done in 2002 showed that among top editorial fashion agencies in Los Angeles and New York, 81% of their “editorial fashion” models were 5’9” and above; 15% were between 5’8” and 5’9”, and only 4% were below 5’8” tall. So, it begs the question why should a modeling agency choose the OP over other models who are taller than her? To paraphrase the late Reverend Ike, the best way to help the poor is not to be poor yourself. The folks at New Models have articles on agencies and the how to contact them. That's the modeling version of a Faux-rarri? No matter how well you can make them. People won't mistake it for the real thing. Also, who's going to buy fashion images involving short models? That's like going to a Ford Fever Weekend event looking for brakes for a Pontiac Firebird/Trans Am. A few things to consider: The OP's closest market is NYC. That's a very competitive market. She's competing with those with real agency representation. She's also competing with those who have been published, and those who have no issues posing nude. What can she bring to the table that will separate her from her peers? No 2 people are ever alike. The model at 5'9 will have a better chance at getting fashion, commercial and editorial work than 4'9 model. The only genres where 4'9 models would get a chance to succeed are fine art and glamour. With that being said, non-nude gigs in those genre are extremely limited, and the majority of them does involve some form of nudity. It goes back to what I said earlier. What separates her from other models; the ones who do nudes, the ones who are with agencies, the ones with marketable looks? Because outside of talent agencies, model agencies don't have space in their books for models in or around the OP's height. If she went there, they'll tell that her they're looking for models with specific height, specific measurements, etc or reject her on the spot. Those with real world modeling industry experience will tell you there's a better chance Michael Bay winning an Oscar than short models getting signed with a modeling agency.
Sun Apr 8 20:30 2012 in reply to Andrea Christine
How to recompose and still have a sharp picture in Photography Talk
Usually 1/200 second with studio strobes (set on less than full power to allow quick recycling). Most of the models I've worked with do what I call "modeling in motion." They begin with a pose and after each shot make one or more small, incremental changes in the pose – change the direction they're looking in, the tilt of the head, the position of their arm or arms, shift their weight, change the shift or bend of the body, etc. Usually about two changes per shot. The list is endless, and the number of poses they can provide is theoretically unlimited. I call this Stage 4 modeling. Stage 1 – Deer in the headlights. Stage 2 – Tell me what to do. A lot like posing for a portrait sitting. "Move your left hand a few inches to the right. Bring your fingers together; you don’t want those fingers splayed. Tilt your head to the left. No, your other left..." Stage 3 – Canned poses. The model learns a number of canned poses and cycles through them in each shoot. Stage 4 – Modeling in motion. (See above.) Stage 5 is all about giving quality, storytelling expressions that are appropriate to the lighting, mood, pose, concept or theme, wardrobe, purpose of the images, etc., every time or almost every time. That is the most difficult part of modeling. When a model has mastered Stages 4 and 5, she has arrived. Her skills are up there with the top models, and the main differences between them are usually the model's look and modeling style, details and nuances. I can get more and better images from a model who's at Stage 4 or 5 in 5 minutes than with a model who's at Stage 2 in an hour. It’s not like the whole shoot is at 12, 15 or 20 ppm (poses per minute). You may only have one or maybe two bursts at these rates per hour, and they only last a minute or so. Then we take a breath, let the camera dump images from the buffer to the CF card, regroup and do something else. At other times it may be something like 4-6 ppm, maybe even less. But when everything comes together and the shoot is working right and everything is just flowing, that’s when the speed builds – and that’s when the best shots usually come. For the majority of the images in my portfolio, I spent about 15 minutes shooting that particular wardrobe/makeup/hair/background combination. Hit one good burst, and you’ve probably got the shot. That’s not to say that I never provide any direction to the model. But with a really good model, it only takes a few words to steer things in the direction you want them to go. There are times when I want a very specific pose. At those times I slow things down, direct more and work more deliberately. Get the shot, then see what the model can do in terms of variations – generally slower with smaller incremental changes. I find myself doing this more and more lately. But just about every set includes modeling in motion. I get compliments on my models' poses all the time, as if I were directing the model's every move. Most of them were shot this way (though not necessarily at top speed). The four most commented and listed images in my portfolio were all shot somewhere between 10-15 ppm. There have been many compliments on the pose in my avatar. Not only did I not direct the pose. It wasn't even intended as a headshot. It was cropped from a shot that was originally waist-up. Compliment April Berry on that one. The 20 ppm model was yesterday. I have more than 200 solid, publication quality images (out of about 550) from five wardrobe changes to choose from.
Sun Apr 1 18:19 2012 in reply to ARA Photo
Asked again: model release... in General Industry
If a model is worrying that a release may take away all her rights to her own photos, she does not understand the legalities. A model release generally has no bearing on whether or not the model can use the images, it only has bearing on how others may use the images. Generally, in the US, without paperwork to the contrary, a model does not have any inherent rights to the images from a photo shoot. What she may have is the right to place restrictions on certain uses of her likeness. A "model release" is a document where the model grants permission for use of her likeness. A "model release" does not give the model any rights to the images. A document which gives the model rights, is no longer a "model release" (although it may contain a release). If a model wants to use the images, she generally needs permission from the copyright holder (usually the photographer). This document is called a "usage license". If the model wants to prevent some or all of the images from being shown she needs to make an agreement with the photographer. This is called a "contract". A model release may give permission to use her likeness for any purposes (a "full release") or for specific purposes (i.e. to promote a specific business in print advertising for a period of one year). A "Usage License" may allow the model to reproduce the images for specific uses (i.e. to promote model's career on facebook, Model Mayhem, Comp Cards, business cards and in model's portfolio) A contract may place any additional restrictions and obligations that the parties agree to (i.e. Photographer will destroy and not release/display any images un which the model's nipples are visible, Photographer will not sell prints of the photographs, who will be paid, how much and when). It is generally much cleaner if the above are separate documents. If the model wants to make prints at CostCo, they want to see a simple usage license. They don't want to wade through a long document and have to decide if the rest of the terms were met and the model therefore has the right to make prints. If the photographer wants to use the images in a context where a release is needed, a third party will want to see a nice simple release. Not a long document that drags in other issues which need to be worried about. It is certainly possible for all three to be combined into a single, however this should not be attempted by amateurs. Getting it wrong might invalidate the entire document. The law is tricky, and frequently does not make sense. Anytime you need a legal agreement, it should be written by an attorney. This is even more important for complicated documents like a combined release/usage license/contract. Of course, These are only generalities. There are lots of exceptions, and some of this may not apply in any particular situation. Laws vary by country, and in the US by state. I am not a lawyer and you should not rely on anything I say. For reliable legal advice, you should always consult an attorney who specializes in this field.
Tue Mar 27 07:02 2012 in reply to DeeEight
90% of Life............ in General Industry
[img]http://www.johnfisher.com/images/1nm1714fshair.jpg[/img] Model: Jessica Bleier, who shows up (in magazines) all the time! I thought I’d take a minute to discuss one aspect of modeling which isn’t well understood either by the models themselves (I think), or the photographers who wish to work with them. You may have noticed a number of threads (usually initiated by a photographer) which are basically complaints about models who don’t show up, or even follow through on requests to shoot (some even initiated by the models themselves). I’ve had my own experiences with this (one in particular which really put me around the bend early in my career), and I thought I’d talk about what it feels like to be on the other side of the camera. A long time ago (maybe twenty five years ago), Proctor and Gamble decided to reintroduce a marketing icon, Mr. Clean, back into their advertising. As a part of their re-launch of the Mr. Clean logo, Proctor and Gamble had a Mr. Clean look-a-like model search to use at supermarket openings. A woman executive at an advertising client of mine got in touch with me about this and suggested it might be fun for me to enter the model search (the Eastern Regional contest was being held in Washington, DC where I was based at the time). It seemed a little silly, but I did look a little like Mr. Clean at the time, and I thought it might be interesting to experience what models go through emotionally when they are sitting on the other side of the table from me during an interview. I did all of my due diligence, learned the song, got the outfit, buffed up a little, and as the time grew closer many of my friends said they wanted to attend the contest finals with me at a big hotel in DC. So far, so good. But a funny thing happened the night before the contest. After I had all the makeup and the outfit ready to go, I suddenly decided this was a little silly, and I had no idea why I thought it was a good idea several weeks ago. I told my wife I wasn’t going to go downtown in the morning. But she reminded me I looked perfect for the part, that all my friends were coming over to join us for the show, and my wife wanted to know why I was going to disappoint them? Soooo, I once again decided to go to the contest in the morning (after all, I did have the makeup and the outfit!) So the morning came, and as we started to go to the show, I once again decided that this was just too silly and I wanted out. I really wanted out. We could all go into the hotel and watch the contest, but I wasn’t going to participate. And then it dawned on me, this is what it’s like to be a model going to your first casting or job interview. Everyone has always told you that you could be a model, and you are happy that they think so, you want to be a model, but when it finally comes to doing it, it suddenly feels like the worst idea possible! I decided to power through the contest, it was one of the hardest things I’ve ever done sitting in a room with 50(!) other Mr. Clean look-a-likes, singing the song, and answering questions about why I wanted to be Mr. Clean. But I did it. At the time I was a 35 year old fully grown man with a (relatively) successful career behind me, and I somehow managed to push my way through the interview. Here is the rub as I can best explain it. When people say you can do something, you are flattered. When they say it often enough, you consider it. When the opportunity sounds like fun and it will impress your friends, you get excited about the opportunity and you seek it out. Everything is great, you can be a model. The only fly in the ointment is when you actually try to be a model. Then (and only then) do you risk failure. If you never actually try, you can always be, forever! It is only in trying that failure is possible (and let’s face it, even likely). All the cards are stacked in favor of wanting to do it, saying you want to do it, but not in actually trying to do it. You get all the psychic rewards... with none of the risk! Now I was 35 when the Mr. Clean contest was held, and had a lot of life experiences behind me. Think how powerful these emotions are on a young person who’s life experiences are short. Even today, when I have a big job to do for a major client these emotions are with me. I am so excited when I interview for the job, so happy when I get the job. But the day before, the morning of the actual work, I am a little terrified, I wonder what was I thinking? But I have been through this many times before, I put one foot in front of the other and out the door I go. When the job is finished I am frequently really pleased with what I’ve done, even a little surprised at times. But I’ve done this many times before, successfully (thank God!), or I wouldn’t still be in the business. That young person interviewing for their first modeling job doesn’t have any of this to bolster them. In some respects it’s a wonder anyone actually shows up! Just something to think about while your sitting in the studio with the client, makeup artist and the stylist drumming your fingers wondering where the hell that stupid model is. And yes, as Woody Allen said, “90% of life is just showing up!” John -- John Fisher 900 West Avenue, Suite 633 Miami Beach, Florida 33139 305 534-9322 http://www.johnfisher.com
Thu Mar 15 08:53 2012
Model Compensation... in Photography Talk
In my opinion, photographers who get offended when models ask to get paid are not being very "professional".I agreed with some of the points you made but not really this one about photographers not being professional because they questioned her want on getting paid. Is there anything wrong with a model wanting to get paid? No. Does she deserve to be paid? Most people want to be paid for their time. I have done shoots for free before and I hate it but I did it and the model is now a repeat customer because she knows my work and how I helped her out when she was starting. The other day I viewed a good number of profiles and I came across several that had photos that were not professionally done (i.e. shot with a cell phone or point and shoot), the model didn't look like she knew what she was doing and yes I do think its the photographer's job to pose the model but the point I am making is that based on her profile here on MM, and I can only go by that, if she had amateurish photos posted how then can she say she will ONLY work for paid assignments? I agree with someone may have filled these models heads and said don't accept any shoots where your not getting paid. I have no idea. If I came across a profile that just blew me away and the pics were professionally done and I said to myself I would like to work with this model then yea I don't have no problem booking and paying that person if she only accepts paid assignments. Sometimes I just need a model or models to make an appearance at an event and they know way in advance that they will be paid for their time. The bottom line, I can only go by what is written or posted in their MM profiles. Some models will say they will do TFP shoots but prefer paid assignments which is cool. I came across one profile and her only experience was being in her High School's fashion show and yet she was one of the "paid assignment only" models. If you notice most of the Very Experienced model profiles on here almost all have PAID ASSIGNMENTS ONLY! Why? They have experience. They don't want no photographer wasting their time on a shoot or acts like he is not sure what he wants and can't deliver. Many of them - modeling is there "9 to 5" job so I totally understand where they are coming from. Its the ones that have ZERO experience but want to act as if they have years of experience and demand payment. I had a model with little experience, tell me recently she wanted me to pay her $400 for 2 hours of work! There was no way that was going to happen! She did get paid for her 2 hours of work but it was not $400! I really didn't want this to turn into a rant. I just made an observation while viewing profiles and wanted to voice my opinion thats all.
Sun Mar 11 10:55 2012
Jobs with the surprisingly low pay... which in General Industry
Looking at the survey that this article is based on, I find that the numbers they report for models are useless. Forbes' source is the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Here is the BLS definition of Models: http://www.bls.gov/soc/2010/soc419012.htm Note that they classify modeling within "Sales and Related Occupations", not (for example) within "Arts, Design, Entertainment, Sports, and Media Occupations". So I think they're leaving out a lot of models that way. They seem to be thinking mostly of promotional models. (Within "Sales", Models are part of the subcategory "Models, Demonstrators, and Product Promoters".) Here is the detailed data on models: http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes419012.htm#nat Note that this information is from a survey of employers and does not include self-employed models. Also it is a sampling, not a comprehensive census. For these reasons, most if not all of the highest-earning fashion models and "spokesmodels" would not be included. Finally, note that most of the models they list are employed by colleges and universities. I'm guessing this means that they're actually mostly counting artists' models. Their "annual wage" numbers are derived by multiplying an hourly rate by 2,080 hours. This is equivalent to 40 hours per week, 52 weeks per year. Obviously that is invalid for most models. The only relevant conclusion to be drawn from all this is that artists' models at colleges and universities make on average about $16/hour. Big surprise.
Fri Mar 9 07:12 2012 in reply to Images by MR
Saturday March 17th, 2012 12p.m.-8:30 p.m. Three workshops in one!!!! Use of the location for creating your own images. Plus, some sweet props and accessories to shoot with!!! You can attend one workshop or all three!! The first two workshops are $40 each, the last is $80 You can also use the location during the workshop(s) you are not attending for an additional $20. Workshop III includes use of the location. You must attend a workshop in order to use the location. Workshop schedule 12pm to 2:00pm - Workshop I – Indoor Studio Limited to 6 photographers • Posing a model on a bike – (A beautiful female model for Casual, Biker and Bikini) • Posing a model on a bike – (Rugged male model for Casual and Biker guy) • Studio lighting setup and adjustments • White Balance 101 • Light meter 101 • Camera adjustments during a studio photo session • Manual adjustment of color temperature • Using a Polarizing filter in a studio setting • Answer the question of what is the subject; the model or the bike and how to do both? • Workshop fee $40 – Use of the location $20 (must attend Workshop I or II to use the location) • Use of the location is from 2:30pm to 4:30pm 2:30pm to 4:30pm- Workshop II – Outside Limited to 6 photographers • Posing a model on a bike – (A beautiful female model for Casual, Biker and Bikini) • Posing a model on a bike – (Rugged male model Casual and Biker) • Outdoor shooting of a bike (both moving and motionless) • Camera adjustments during an outdoor photo session • When to use Servo, Multi and Single shot? • Using a Polarizing filter • Use of Fill Flash • Panning a shot • Answer the question of what is the subject; the model or the bike and how to do both • Use of the location is from 12pm to 2:00pm • Workshop fee $40 – Use of the location $20 (must attend Workshop I or II to use the location) 5:00pm to 6:30pm - Workshop III – Exclusive indoor Studio Limited to 6 photographers only 6:30pm to 8:30pm or more - Use of the location • Posing a model on a bike – (A beautiful female model for Biker Babe, Bikini, Lingerie and Implied) How to create a “shot list” to get the shots you want from a model • Learn to talk to a model before and during the photo session to get the shots you want • Using Studio lighting • Using Studio Hot lights • Shadow and Light creative ideas • Using color filters on lighting equipment • Camera adjustments during a studio photo session • Manual adjustment of color temperature on camera • Use of the location is from 6:30pm to 8:30pm and is included with your original fee • Workshop fee $80 includes use of the location from 6:30pm to 8:30pm • Attendee must attend the Workshop III for the use of the location Additional information Photographer’s fee includes • Shoe mount Triggers for Studio lighting • Use of the studio lighting • Snacks and drinks • Lounge with tables and chairs • Power for charger, laptop and Tablets • Pick from a preselect assortment of custom bikes • Support staff to move Custom Bikes around
Mon Mar 5 13:56 2012
Is this real or a scam? in General Industry
Good evening Arden, my name is -------- and I work as an intern for ------------------------- One of our photographers(---------) recently retired and one of my assigned tasks is to help find new out of area models that he wouldn't have had the chance to work with prior to retirement that may appreciate an opportunity to grow in the art. When he worked here, he partnered with living imagery in Chicago who run a contest every quarter where the top three finalist are invited to a three day stay/two day shoot in Chicago, Il. Each time, he is asked to recommend three models and I would like to suggest you(you have captivating eyes) for his review. As a younger model, who has a nice beginning to her portfolio, I thought you might take unique advantage of the opportunity. Please read over the over the details below careful and let me know if you would be comfortable with the requirements and interested in a possible recommendation. Due to your location, this is not an offer to shoot with us but rather to participate in the competition under our nomination. This process is not meant to be an expense for you, but you would be responsible for setting up the shoots to produce your review photos. For the three review rounds you would be free to shoot with any photographer you are comfortable with or, in the case of the round 1 review, self shoot your photos. Mike is willing (and encourages all applicants) to discuss possible submission photos for thoughts or ideas for reshoots as you put your round 1 portfolio together. If you were invited on to round 2 and could not find a photographer you would be comfortable working with, we would consider working with you to get you down to work with us. Their submission requirements do fall a bit out of your current comfort zone as they require an artistic nude submission(I know you don't do nude and while the review photos require such a set, the shoot itself is not) as well as implied(last quarter they asked for 3 shots in each of high fashion, casual, bikini/lingerie, implied, and artistic(with the implied and artistic allowed to be self-shot if the model was not comfortable having them shot as long as they are well lit and well framed), but these requirements are for their internal staff review only and the final shoot in Chicago does not require nudity(it is normally a high fashion shoot). The reason I am reaching out to you even through your portfolio mentions you do not shoot nude, and the reason we still contact those who prefer to not shoot nude is that, in each review period, it is but a small portion of the overall portfolio and experience. About 70% of the models we recommend do not shoot nude but have decided they are willing to so for the review(some shoot with us, some have photographers they trust, and some elect to shoot those sets themselves which there is allowance for), and I would dare say that to the model everyone has decided that the overall experience and the feedback they receive throughout is worth it. The photos you submit are covered by a non release/destruction agreement which covers the destruction of all review photos within three business days of the close of the review. I know it is out of your comfort zone but I wasn’t sure if you would consider this situation different with the submission photos being for vetting purposes only and never posted anywhere. The submission process is a three round process outlined below: Round 1(deadline would be April 9th it is 18 photos) - This round is really...I don't want to say superficial, but they give you five or six sets (this round it is fashion, Casual, bikini, lingerie, implied, and artistic nude) and for each set they want three specific angles (front, side, and rear) to get your body lines and lay. These shots are to show you as a model at your most base, so no photoshop, no black and white, just straight on shots. This round is pretty much pass/fail they are just looking to see if they could work with you, your individuality as a model comes in the future rounds. This round is also tailored to newer models who just want to take the chance and see as this round the submitted shots can all be self shot as long as they are of good quality. That way you don’t need to find a photographer until you find out if you made it to round 2 and that you have a true chance. Round2(deadline would be sometime in early June)- you get to start showing who you are as a model and why they should want to work with you. They give you a number of elements (such as water or natural shadow) and you submit a portfolio of your own creation factoring in these elements. This is the round that I love, as it is amazing to watch young models grow as they develop their portfolios and they always come out of it with a portfolio they are proud of. Round 3(Deadline would be sometime around early Aug)- They ask a set of questions regarding your interests, best/most interesting experiences and a few others to try and factor in your personality, they also ask for a smaller portfolio I think of five shots that you feel best represent you as a model. The current shoot(last quarter but yours would be similar) is a fashion or shoot where the models will model three dresses from an upcoming spring line tailored to their measurements which they will keep in addition to their two day pay of just over $1300 and the three day stay in Chicago. Every quarter they fly in a special guest photographer for the shoot. No pressure, you have a great look, and I would like to suggest you to Mike for his review. If you are interested, we ask that you take five min to fill out an application to let us know a little bit about you as a model. This helps us decide who truly wants the opportunity and who will follow through. It can be found at: --------------------------------------------------- I hope you consider it, at the very least you will come out the experience with a portfolio you can be proud of!
Sat Mar 3 13:02 2012
I'm in ur Edu section in SF2
We can be clear on one thing: if you had modeled with hundreds and hundreds of photographers over several years for free in one city and never been published, should you be questioned, you could provide those stats. I think that most people would find that acceptable because of the range of experience. Tears, geographic areas covered and tear sheets, however, speak volumes as to qualifications of a model. A model who earns her sole source of income from modeling and/or racks up tear sheets is necessarily operating as a professional. Given that the piece you wrote is about conducting oneself as a professional, I'd have to say that it certainly matters. You haven't read me suggest that you need to be a traveling model to write that piece. However, traveling models stand to work with exponentially more photographers and encounter a wider range of situations. I wouldn't put it as a requirement that a model who writes a piece like that be one who travels, but I would imagine that the models on this site who are active and have the most experience would be traveling models. If you've spent most of your time in one or two markets, then your experience is only relevant to those markets. Models who've either covered a lot of ground or worked in destination cities (NYC, LA, Chicago, etc) are going to get a wide range of people coming to them. Don't take the op-ed piece down. The info provided isn't bad, just poorly structured (your major points and sub-points could probably be restructured for better clarity). But when people say things like "This should be stickied for new models to read." you're also going to have people pose the question of "Who the fuck are you?" Because if you're an unknown quantity with no way to prove you're knowledgeable to the reader who's completely unfamiliar with you (unlike people of this narrow section of the internet who think so highly of you) what you say is no more qualified than what anyone else says. Plenty of models have been lead astray by people who don't know what they hell they're talking about but present their wording in a rational manner. How can they separate good advice from a sea of bullshit? By looking at credentials. "Oh, this girl's been on the cover of XYZ 5 times and she's had 2 spreads in ABC. She's been modeling for X years and has worked in Y different cities with over Q different photographers. I don't know her, but I'd guess she knows what she's talking about." That's why it matters. That's all well and good that you've tested it. Never did you see me write that you think that you are an expert. I can say in complete honesty that I have no idea what you were thinking. However, that opinion piece is posed as an education resource for those in need of insight; you open the door for people to ask you how you're qualified. I know, I know: truth is truth and all that romantic stuff. Yeah, but for people who don't know you, everything is bullshit until qualified as otherwise. Disclaimers aren't qualifications. Even op-ed pieces on CNN.com will provide the background qualifications of the person who wrote it. "Sue Z. Sioux was the Supervisor of Plunging Operations under Reagan and Director of Toiletary Procedures during the Clinton administration. Her book 'This Shit is Out of Control' is a NYTimes bestseller. The opinions presented are those of the author and do not reflect those of CNN." or something to that effect. As for having someone else write it… if someone wants to. If you want to do something so unscrupulous as place someone else's name on it to qualify what you wrote, that's up to you; I suggest no such thing. But I do that that an educational resource should be authored by the people have the standing to do so. If that's you, great. Prove it. And you don't do it to prove it to me; you do it on principle because you should be proving it to everyone.You're being absolutely absurd, and I think your problem is with MM edu, not me in particular. My qualifications are my portfolio, and that it works. If a newbie wants to apply their critical thinking caps to my article they can either 1) decide if what I'm doing is what they want to be doing, and if it is, my advice is important or 2) think about the information objectively and whether or not it makes sense to them/would work for them. It's more ridiculous to assume that someone with tearsheets is always right. Also, MM Edu does offer exactly what you're talking about, as an "about me" at the bottom. Mine reads: And that's the truth. That's me. That's all there is to know. I have a body of work, credits to check, and just "freelance model from Austin, based in Edmonton, sometimes travels for modeling". I don't know what else you want, other than to rant.
Fri Mar 2 16:35 2012 in reply to Kincaid Blackwood
Follow us on all of our networks Official Website | Facebook Page | Twitter Page |Meetup Page Video footage of our recent event: www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBgtn4eEoK4 Sin City Sinners ~ 15+ glamour models Photographers leave the wives at home for this one Theme: Naughty Sinners Day When: Saturday May 19th, 2012 from 11:00am to 6pm Where: 9,000 Sqft Mini Mansion in Las Vegas, Nevada # of Models: 15+ (Models will be posted accordingly booked) Food: Food & drinks will be provided Meet & Greet: 11am to 11:30am Group Shoot: 11:30am to 2:30pm Mini Break: 2:30pm to 2:50pm Private 1:1's: 2:50pm to 6pm Photographer Cost: $150.00 Book your own 1:1's with the model directly ~ (Pre-booking is strongly encouraged) Model Release agreements will be provided No Boyfriend/Assistants (unless they pay the entry fee) Refund Policy: No refunds. If you can't attend, we will credit your payment to the next event. 2:1 Model to Photographer Ratio Model/Photographer Rotation to assure equal time You may bring 2 strobes or your Speedlights for the indoor shoots Outside the residency, natural light, etc Model Info: Free admission Must participate in group shoot in order to sell 1:1's Must pose swimwear or lingerie in group shoot You may sell model releases for no more than $10, $20 for nudes Set your rates for 1:1 shoots & release agreements with the photographer Model Release agreements will be provided No escorts (unless they pay the photographer fee) Thread Link to our recent event: http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=817306 Video footage of our recent event: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzLnWHfdWNg More then 2 months to plan your trips for all interested to attend if your not local. Models or Photographers with any questions, please email me @ Arthur@groupshootevents.com [img]http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/6142/gse3.jpg[/img] Limited images of the property. [img]http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/8610/80194840.jpg[/img] [img]http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/3145/47442583.jpg[/img] [img]http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/3527/42683413.jpg[/img] Model Lineup Click on models image to contact them for 1on1 rates Nadia Brewer [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/111227/21/4efaa54c8964c.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Ela Passion [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/120202/16/4f2b28daab29a.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Implied Nudes Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Kimberly Pavalko [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/120113/09/4f1067d4138bb.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Nicole W [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/110803/08/4e3969dc78898.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Nicole [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/120305/21/4f559cc0b57c5.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Kayluh Elizabeth [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/100118/00/4b541a2d5b02c.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Layla Michelle [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/111007/02/4e8eca033cca9.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Larrysa Rose [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/110324/19/4d8bf8e95a174.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Jamie Michelle [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/120131/23/4f28edde2c41f.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Stephanie Torres [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/101017/23/4cbbeff580613.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Tiffany Alexa [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/120224/11/4f47e5372bec8.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Miss Yuen [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/110421/15/4db0b43cd7d3c.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Shana [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/120128/13/4f2465e33ca8c.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Candy [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/101231/22/4d1ec76c20a6c.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Annie Violet [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/110812/02/4e44ee60f3c41.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Paisley Lais [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/111117/09/4ec54748e95bb.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Samiha D [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/111222/12/4ef392a51f0d5.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm MORE MODELS WILL BE ADDED SHORTLY
Wed Feb 29 17:51 2012
Deposits question in General Industry
While I figure that anything a model & a photographer agree to is their business alone, I am not a fan of models paying photographers deposits. Here are my thoughts: ... If you are the one paying the other party $$$, it is sometimes appropriate for the paying party to pay a deposit. If a photographer is going to pay a model, or if the arrangement is for a TF* session, it is (IMO) inappropriate for the photographer to ask the model for a deposit. ... Seems to me that "flake threads" dominate these forums, but there also are a significant number of "I didn't get my pictures" threads, too. If deposits are supposed to reduce the likelihood that a model will flake, why don't we think a deposit will improve the likelihood that a photographer will deliver the promised images on time? To be fair, I would think a more appropriate "deposit scheme" would go like this: --- Model & photographer agree to work together. --- Model gives the photographer a deposit (say $25). --- Model shows up on time & ready to go. --- Photographer refunds the model's deposit. --- They work together as expected. --- (If appropriate, the photographer pays the model any modeling fee). --- Photographer pays the model a deposit (say $75). (*) --- Photographer delivers the promised images in the promised format, on time. --- Model refunds the photographer's deposit. (*) The photographer's deposit is larger because a) the model's work has already been completed and b) because photographers tend to be more financially established than models; the deposit has to be big enough to be meaningful to the person paying the deposit. The size of the deposit is, of course, negotiable. But I figure that no photographer here would agree to give a model a deposit to ensure that they deliver the promised images on time. So, not a fan of deposits.
Mon Feb 27 08:31 2012 in reply to Kristine Caluya
Model Releases in Newbie Forum
http://www.ppa.com/articles/390/Model-R … equire.php States requiring a written model release: Illinois Indiana Massachusetts Nevada New York Ohio Pennsylvania Rhode Island Virginia Wisconsin Three other states (California, Kentucky and Texas) that explicitly require a written release from the heirs of someone who is deceased. States require model releases under very narrow circumstances. Arizona California Delaware Kentucky Louisiana New Jersey New Mexico Texas States that have statutes that appear to allow consent to be obtained orally or in writing. Florida Nebraska Oklahoma Tennessee Utah Washington State-by-State Statutes State Codes Requiring Written Model Releases Illinois: 765 ILCS Ann. 1075 Indiana: Indiana Code 32-36 Massachusetts: Mass. General Laws 214-3a Nevada: N.R.S. 597.720 New York: N.Y. Civil Rights Law Sections 50 and 51 Ohio: O.R.S. 2741.02 Pennsylvania: 42 Pa.C.S.A Ch. 83a §8316 Rhode Island: RIGL 9-1-28 Virginia: Va. Code Ann. 8.01-40 Wisconsin: Wis. Stat. 995.50(2)(b) State Codes with Implied Model Release Laws Arizona: Arizona Revised Stat. 12-761 Written model releases required from the solider or heirs of a solider when their likeness is used for commercial purposes. California: California Codes, Civil Code, Section 3344-3344.1 Written model releases required from heirs of person with celebrity at their time of death. Delaware: Delaware Code, Title 11, Ch. 180 §1335(a)6 Permission is required when photographing a person who is “getting dressed or undressed” and may otherwise have an expectation of privacy. Kentucky: Ky. Rev. Stat. 391.170 Written model releases required from heirs of deceased persons. Louisiana: La. Rev. Stat. 14 §102.21 Written model releases required from the heirs of a deceased solider when their likeness is used for commercial purposes. New Mexico: New Mexico State Stat, 57-22-6.3 Written model releases required when likeness is used for fundraising purposes. New Jersey: New Jersey Permanent Stat. 2A:58D-1 Permission is required when photographing “intimate parts under circumstances in which a reasonable person would not expect to be observed.” Texas: Texas Property Code 26.002 Written model releases required from heirs of deceased persons. State Codes Allowing Verbal or Written Model Releases Florida: Florida Stat. 540.08 Nebraska: Revised Statute 202-202 Oklahoma: Okla. Stat. Title 12, §1448 and 1449. However 21, § 839.1A – Explicitly requires a release from heirs of a deceased solider. Tennessee: Tennessee Code 47-25-1102 Utah: Utah Code Ann. 45-3-1 et seq. Washington: Wash. Rev. Code 63.60.010 States that Recognize Need for Model Release by Common Law These states do not have explicit model release laws in their state code however, through case law and other judicial opinions a common law “right of publicity” has been established. Alabama Arkansas Connecticut Georgia Hawaii Maine Michigan* Minnesota Missouri New Hampshire South Carolina West Virginia State Codes without Expressed Model Release Laws Alaska Colorado Idaho Iowa Kansas Maryland Mississippi Montana North Carolina North Dakota Oregon South Dakota Vermont Wyoming
Sun Feb 26 12:08 2012 in reply to Jessica H MM
MM behind the photo in General Feedback
Well you definately picked the one with a,lets say interesting tale. Shit where do I start?? To keep it simple,there were 3 models including myself,I'll refer to the other 2 models as model 1 and model 2. Shoot was up in Marquette,MI at the ice falls.8hr drive with the photog,MUA and model 1.We got to the hotel around 7pm,dropped off our bags and went to pick up model 2(she lives up there)and go to dinner.First place(sushi,yum!) was closed so we went to a bar and had ok food.Then we dropped off model 2,it was about 9pm.We went to Wal-Mart to pick up snowboots for MUA and model 1 and photog needed a few things.Got back to hotel at 10pm which was pretty late cuz we all had to get up at 5am. So 5am comes and the MUA was suppose to start model 1's make-up at 5 but model 1 got to our room(MUA and I shared a room)at 5:30.So MUA finished model 1 at 6am then started mine.We were suppose to be on our way to the falls by 6:30 but ended up leaving at 7ish. So now we get to where the falls are but had to walk .75 of a mile to get to the actual falls.Because of all the warming and then cooling we've been having(very odd winter here)the trails were packed down snow on top of ice.Pretty slippery but walkable.So we finaly get to where the falls are but in order to get to the base of the falls we had to go down a very steep slope.This is where the "fun" part begins... This slope was pretty steep,a bit steeper than a staircase,and about 50 feet long.So we had a rope w/knots(skinny rope,knots no bigger than a walnut)that we had to slide our hand down as we slid down the slope.The slope had tree roots and rocks jutting out of it but was fairly covered in ice and snow so it wasn't TOO bad but not fun.When I went to go down,per request of the photog,I wrapped the rope around my arm once by my wrist.I knew this wasn't a good idea cuz the rope could get caught up and my wrist would get "noosed" but I did it cuz thats what he said to do.BIG mistake.Rope got caught up and my wrist got "noosed".Hurt like hell but no real damage. Now on to the next slope.Same as the first but you had to guide yourself to the left so you didn't hit a tree.No problems here. While still clothed we chose were we would be posing and then model 2 did her set.Passerbys came through so we had to wait for about 45min.Then model 1 went.Next I went.We all posed for a total of 5-7min a piece so we wouldn't freeze our butts off.We also had layers of clothing,snowpants and chemical warmers to keep us warm trekking out there and back. So now we have to get back up the slope.This is where it get REALLY FUN.We decided,after seeing hikers do it,to use the rope and climb up off to the side of the slippery part.There were footholes and more snow than ice so it was a lil easier to get your footing on.I grab the rope and start climbing.Pretty easy til I got about 3ft away from the top.Theres a bunch of tree roots intertwining and they're covered in ice so I couldn't find a good spot to step while I pulled myself up.The rope was "stretchy" so I didn't feel like I had a steady resistance and then the knots slid right through my hands and I fell about 3ft.Thankfully I caught myself before falling all the way down.I would've been hurt REALLY bad if I did.I gathered myself enough to get up to the top and then I sat down and cried for a couple min.That fall scared the hell outta me and really shook me up. Model 1 & 2,MUA and photog made it up without falling but it wasn't easy.We trekked back to the car and headed home. End of story
Sat Feb 25 22:03 2012 in reply to JM Studios
stylist rights to portfolio images and credit in Photography Talk
so this is a two parter that i will try and keep short. i am a makeup artist,stylist, and model. my good friend is an amateur photographer. she had just purchased a legit camera (not point and shoot) and i was the first model she shot with it. i was already a published and well established model/name in the pinup community and she was just starting out. no contracts were ever signed but it was understood since we were friends that i wouldnt charge her and i would get use of the images. i always credit the photographer! we ventured into a magazine (print on demand) together and it was understood the first issue would be mainly me modeling and id provide free styling for myself and the few other models in the magazine shoots. again no contracts. my compensation was a creative outlet, published, and of course the use of the photos in my port. she called me co-editor and content editor. at the beginning i already knew i wasnt living up to the responsibilities of the title but wrote it off to her being a control freak and understood as i myself can be the same. before we ventured into issue two it was discussed that since issue one got her name out there (to people who recognized me but had never heard of her), and using the fact that people in the pinup world were beginning to take notice of me that we could start charging models for the styling. i had invested quite a bit in issue one with traveling an hour back and forth to the shoots, supplies, and taking time off from paid shoots dedicating myself to the magazine i was "co-editing". as issue two began i started noticing that i was less and less involved, was unaware of the content (i was called content editor) and was slowly being squeezed out as a model and makeup artist. the pieces began to be put together for me and i noticed i had no say creatively as an artist something id written off to "control freak", had yet to be paid for any of the work i had already done, and even found out about the release party online like everyone else. a date i had already booked for an out of town signing. realizing i had been had i confronted her only to be met with a totally different person. i walked away from the future planned shoots and washed my hands of it. unfortunately she had already gotten her name out there, taken my contacts as her own (retro lovely, pinup models, pinup photographers, etc all who knew me legitimizing her as a photographer). i understood lesson learned and that i couldnt unring that bell. within 24 hours the entire website had been changed, all my credit for the makeup i had already done was erased, the shoots i had already done for the second issue were not included nor was i given edited copies or copies at all as my compensation, she lined up a new "makeup artist" and had found my model replacement in an eager new model. i then realized that perhaps this had been planned longer than i had known. i know i said id make this short sorry. i wrote this off to lesson learned and continued focusing on my modeling which i had put off to help her out. there were no conflicts until recently after i had received more recognition and publications as a model. suddenly my replacement model and "stylist" began sending me horrific text messages accusing me of stealing work, taking credit that isnt mine, lying, cheating you name it. i had and have absolutely no idea what this girl is referring to. i got threats to slander my name, be called a drug addict and that they would say i hadnt done any of the work that i had done. i notified the police and they said to not respond and unless its physical or property its a civil court matter. i took the advice. i again received more from the model (working under the guidance of the photographer i presume since i dont know this girl), threatening to "out" me, and say god only knows what if i dont remove all her photos from my portfolio. she had also removed all credit on her ports on mm, fb and the like, along with the photographer. as of today she is on fb slandering me like... like... the movies or something. blatant lies i can prove through text messages and statements from people who were there but... im saving that for a lawyer. after, the actual photographer, my old friend, also asked me to remove personal photos i had taken of us quoting washington law that i have infringed her personality or something, even though these are candid photos from my camera, where she isnt tagged or ridiculed in any way. i know please bear with me. my questions are. as a model who never signed a release expect through verbal agreements and back and forth emails discussing the first issue, am i entitled to anything seeing as she made money from my images with no release? as a stylist are there any laws stating that they MUST give me credit for my work? AND since i have verbal and written emails assuring id be paid and wasnt am i entitled to anything? since we were friends and it was understood i used the photos in my portfolio (at the very least since i was never paid), and now that we arent friends (and my port hasnt been updated since), do they have any legal right to have me remove them from my port? the slander, harassment and threats of course ill leave to a lawyer but as professionals do i have any rights? i have emails, texts, and some models willing to admit i styled them, but no contracts were ever signed. please help. these women are two against me and are both vouching for one another on these blatant lies. my husband is about to deploy in a month and the last thing i want to do is be in distress and at a lawyer all the time. i want to just walk away with nothing as long as they stop harassing me (they can continue the slander), so long as i can just move on. but the more they threaten me and lie the more i want justice instead of being complacently victimized. thanks for whoever read this far... i feel helpless and overwhelmed.
Fri Feb 24 05:18 2012
WE DID THIS ONCE BEFORE ... THIS TIME IT IS GOING TO BE BETTER! COME JOIN US FOR FOUR DAYS AND FOUR NIGHTS OF SHOOTING AND CRUSING FUN ... WE'RE OFF TO MEXICO! THE PRICE OF THIS EVENT INCLUDES ALL YOUR COSTS EXCEPT THE COST OF YOUR ONBOARD CABIN, TRANSPORTATION TO LONG BEACH AND DRINKS / TIPS ONBOARD ... IT IS A NEARLY ALL INCLUSIVE PRICE! We are off to sea on the Carnival Inspiration for four days and four nights of fun! [img]http://cruiseweb.com/carnival-imagelibrary/ships/ship-Inspiration-w630x300.jpg[/img] CLICK HERE to read about the cruise. We've done all kinds of adventures ... this time we're off to Mexico on a cruise ship. This isn't the first time we have done this. The first trip was a five star event. It went very well. We listed to you though and we think we can make it better. By request, we are going back on the same cruise, but this time it will be even more fun, a better shoot. We're departing from Long Beach, California on May 14th. We'll have two ports of call, Catalina Island and Ensenada, Mexico. We're going to have a great cruise, as a group, plus ... we're also going to be shooting onboard the ship and at all of our destinations. Onboard the ship, you will be able to shoot almost anywhere you want, although public nudity won't be allowed. We'll also have our own, deluxe grand suite where we'll be able to shoot nudes. We'll have a balcony, a whirlpool, a king-sized bed and a lot more. I'll bring the lights. On most of these cruises, the promoters expect the models to pay their own way. That limits your shooting because the models are there on their own. On this cruise, not only are we covering the travel for the models, we are also paying them as well. We are the only cruise adventure that is doing that. In the end it wil be cheaper for you because the mdoels are being paid to come there to shot. On Catalina, I will be chartering a six passenger golf cart and will act as your guide to the island. I have been there over 100 times. The last attendees have asked that we stick with the city becuase there are so many unique places to shoot. It is a real experience. We won't be doing many nudes in town (although we may be able to do a few), but the locations will be great. When we are finished shooting, we'll have lunch together, as a group, at the Blue Parrot. You'll lovee it. In Ensenada, we have already discoverd a wonderul location suitable for outdoor nudes. It is a long, isolated beach surrounded by dunes and wetlands. We barely touched all the possibilities there. You'll get to do them all this time. After the shoot, we'll have dinner together in the city and then you are free to explore the ship or the town after that. SHOOTING SCHEDULE MONDAY 7:30-9:00PM In Suite Nude TUESDAY 10:00-1:00PM Catgalina Fashion/Swimwear 3:00-4:00PM In Suite Nude / Members Only 4:00-5:00PM In Suite Nude WEDNESDAY 10:00-1:30PM Ensenada Nude 4:00-5:30PM On Ship Fashion / Swimwear THURSDAY 9:30-11:30AM On Ship Fashion / Swimwear 2:00-4:00PM In Suite Nude - Indoor/Outdoor 7:30-8:30PM In Suite Nude - Night - Outdoor The Suite and the Models are available at all other times for private bookings Carnival is arranging for us to be seated together for our meals and organized shipboard activities. Onboard, there is nightly entertainment, more food than you could possibly eat and activities througout the day. When you aren't shooting you are free to partake in any activities onboard the ship. We plan this event to have a 2:1 photographer to model ratio. Initially we'll have six to eight photographers and three models. As we get more photographers, we'll add models. We can easily accomodate up to five models and ten photographers. It is even possible to handle more. The price for this event is $800 for non-members or $700 for members. The price DOES NOT include the cost of your cabin on the ship, transportaiton to Long Beach, onboard bar tab or tips. Cabins on the ship start at about $325 per person for an inside cabin, double occupancy. Outside cabins are about $360. If you are on a budget, more than two can be accomodated in a cabin, if arranged for in advance Single occupancy cabins are available, but at a higher price. There are both inside and outside cabins on the same deck as the suite. They are also at a slightly higher cost. Carnival has been running a number of specials. We will put you in touch with our representative who will help you find the best cabin deal. You will be able to pick your own roommate. The cost of this event is non-refundable if you cancel unless we are able find someone to take your place. HERE ARE THE FIRST THREE MODELS [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/101226/14/4d17c528946fa.jpg[/img] [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/120130/19/4f275f808327e.jpg[/img] [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/070717/17/469d3c8f14bcc.jpg[/img] MORE WILL BE ADDED AS PHOTOGRAPHERS SIGN UP. CLICK HERE to check out the model's profiles ALL MODELS WILL POSE NUDE, A NUDE PROMOTIONAL RELEASE IS INCLUDED! A FULL COMMERCIAL RELEASE FOR THE ENTIRE CRUISE IS JUST $50 PER MODEL You are welcome to make any travel arrangements to Long Beach you want. Air travel and transfers are available through Carnival Cruises. You may also make your own airline reservations or travel on AMTRAK. For those who want to drive from San Francisco, we will be carpooling from the studio on Sunday night, right after the Sunday photo event. We'll drive to Button Willow and stay at the Super 8 Motel. We'll drive the rest of the way on Sunday morning. If you elect to carpool with us on Sunday, you will get a $25 discount for the Sunday photo shoot at the studio. Parking is available at the Carnival Cruise terminal. All models are available for private booking, but private bookings are not required. The models are being compensated for the shoot so you should not feel obligated to book them.. No passport is required, but you do have to bring a birth certificate with an original seal. There will be one special shoot for members of the Photo Studio Club! Have you joined yet? [img]http://photostudioclub.com/images/logo1.jpg[/img] www.photostudioclub.com Cabin Reservations will be made directly with Carnival through our representative. We will provide you with his telephone number upon registration. You may pick your own cabin mate or we will help you select one. You can reserve a cabin onboard at anytime. It is first come, first served. You will make payment arrangements for the cabin directly with Carnival. WE WILL PROVIDE A LIST OF ALL REGISTERED PHOTOGRAPHERS SO YOU CAN SELECT A ROOMMATE
Thu Feb 23 13:49 2012
I don't pay in General Industry
I don't really understand the "I don't pay models" mindset. Every working artist I know, whether they are painters, sculptors, or photographers, regularly pays models. Maybe that's because they are all successful enough to be able to afford it. But, anyway on MM it seems to be regarded as a merit badge to not pay models. So for all the newcomers, here it is: The Top Ten Ways to “Never Pay Models” 1. Go to shoot outs. Pay the promoter instead of the model. 2. Give the model “gas money”. Like a modeling fee but not a modeling fee. 3. Rent a hotel room for the model. Claim you need it to shoot in. Maybe she’ll let you spend the night. 4. Let the model stay at your place. She saves hundreds of dollars and lets you shoot her. Pretend she’s trading for the images. 5. Take the model out for dinner. A nice dinner with a bottle of wine. It will cost more than the modeling fee. But it feels like a date. Wowie! 6. Buy the model a plane ticket. Maybe only double or triple what the modeling fee would have been. 7. Don’t shoot anyone. Ever. 8. Drugs. Lots of drugs. Good ones aren’t cheap. 9. Sex. Yes, this works. It’s actually a centuries old practice. But don’t get confused, not every model is your girlfriend. 10. If all else fails, just lie. That’s a very popular approach too. These techniques all work. They have been used for years by some of MM’s “best” photographers. You can use them too.
Wed Feb 22 11:53 2012 in reply to liindsay ann
How does one become titles as a "model?" in Model Colloquy
She sounds a little uppity, or possibly insecure about her own work. I've said it about 40 million times, but I'll say it again: Old ladies in denture cream ads are models. The people playing volleyball on the beach in herpes med commercials are models. Portly, middle-aged men who pose nude for art classes are models. "Booth babes" who stand around at car shows, handing out flyers, are models. The fuzzy white cat who sits on a pillow, on a bag of catfood, is a model. The little kid who is cuddling the white cat on the pillow, is also a model. People performing at a club fetish show are also acting as models. Women who dance around rappers in music videos are models. Random, average-looking guy assembling furniture in an instructional DVD is a model. Anyone can be a model. The only difference is that some people are "professional models," and regularly make money from their modeling, while others are "hobbyist models," and rarely or never earn income that way. They are all models, regardless, and one type is not any more legitimate than the other.
Mon Feb 20 15:33 2012 in reply to Mad Hatter Imagery
Trade / paid / team . . . in Model Colloquy
Mike, I find myself in a similar situation. I live in a small town and most models I work with must drive 100 miles or more to do a shoot with me, most of which live in areas with may other photographers. It makes attracting models difficult. While I won't claim my portfolio is of professional quality or outstanding in any way, I've reached the point where working with most average looking wannabes with no experience simply will not improve my portfolio or provide me with images that are much use in other ways. I once booked a higher paid model and MUA. The model ended up canceling at the last minute, leaving me with a financial commitment to a MUA, I had no need for. Even if it had worked out, I'm not sure it would have been worth while. I figure I'm not going to use 3-4 shots max from a single model in my portfolio, so to make any notable improvement in my portfolio, is probably going to mean shooting at minimum of 3 notably better models. Let's say each shoot costs $500 for a MUA and model. (remember, they need to travel). What will that $1,500 expenditure really do? Models and MUAs improve the quality of the look of the subject matter. They do nothing to improve my photographic ability, equipment limitations, studio set limitations or editing abilities. That expenditure will do nothing to improve the qualify of the images of future shoots. It certainly hasn't shortened the distance models or clients must drive. All it will do it make my portfolio a little better. Also note, those 3 shoots or 9 images would cost more than all 4 of my AB lights which I'll use for hundreds of shoots. I face a similar question with a middle ground: Feeling like I was getting what I needed from trade anymore, I spent some time and effort at identifying a few models who were fairly new, and had done little if any paid work, but offered what I felt was a good look doing their own make up and offered them $30/hour plus images. The money in addition to images made traveling to me worthwhile over local trade shoots. It definitely meant less communication and better follow through compared to finding trade shoots, and for the first time in a while, I felt I had images that improved my portfolio, but not dramatically so. It resulted in more sellable microstock images as well. However, I don't feel the increased sales will even cover the increase cost of the model, so it's a loss in that respect, and as my portfolio has slowly gotten better over the years, I haven't been getting more shoots. I still am not a pro photographer and still live out in the boonies. It's something I'm still trying to figure out, but for the most part, I don't think investing a lot higher paid models and MUAs is something I'll ever get a pay back on. Attending a good workshop which could potentially improve the quality of all future shoots and provide a few good, different photos would probably be a better use of my funds. Rather than spend a notable chunk of change to have handful of better images, I'm more content to shoot models when I can do so affordably, and shoot something else when I can't. Another issue I've run into after having some better model photos, is that new, average looking models with no experience sometimes feel disappointed that the images I give them are not as good as the best images in my portfolio. It's awkward trying to explain that's because they are not nearly as good.... While our situations may be similar, no two situations or goals are identical. What makes sense to me, may not make sense for you, but I do hope a similar perspective helps you figure out what is right for you.
Sun Feb 19 08:14 2012 in reply to MLRPhoto
Reputable Modeling Agencies in Massachusetts in General Industry
Important information regarding Modeling Agencies in Massachussets: http://www.mass.gov/lwd/labor-standards … setts.html DLS List of licensed employment agencies: http://www.mass.gov/lwd/docs/dos/ea/ea-licensed.pdf DLS recommends that you call their office at (617) 626-6970 to verify an employment agency's status prior todoing business with them. --------------------------------------------------------- The following is a list of modeling agencies that are licensed with the DLS as employment agencies as of December 2011: 7313 Asian Boston Casting & Media P O Box 52137 Boston MA 617.275.4249 Leo Ballou 6059 Click Models of Boston, Inc. 222 Newbury St., Third Floor Boston MA 617.266.1100 Stefano D'Angola 6034 Copley Seven Models & Talent P. O. Box 170525 Boston MA 617.267.4444 Jo Somers 6054 Dynasty International Models & Talent Agency, Inc. 207 Newbury St., 3rd Floor Boston MA 617.536.7900 Joe & Ginger Freeman 7144 Heart & Soul Enterprises (Worldwide Modeling & Talent) 37 Cedar St, 2nd Floor Boston MA 617.516.4341 Jannie Pettway 6030 Maggie, Inc. 35 Newbury St., Suite 5 Boston MA 617.536.2639 Robert Casey ("Casey") 6070 Model Club, Inc. 329 Columbus Avenue, #2 Boston MA 617.247.9020 Ed Sliney/ Tim Ayers 7269 Spotlight Agency P.O. Box 6324 Boston MA 617.296.1580 8147 The Inej Agency LLC 254 Green Street, Suite 1 Brockton MA 508.454.1281 8031 Keen Agency, Inc. (The) 276 East Grove Street Clarks Summit PA 877.781.3180 Deborah Keen 6076 New York Model Management Scouting & Placement Co. P. O. Box 1461 Dudley MA 508.949.7700 Donna M. Sobieski Jenifer Teran Kay Walker Herbin 6067 Boston Agency (The) 9 Maple Avenue Haverhill MA 978.374.1528 6050 Cinderella Modeling Agency 50 Queen City Avenue Manchester NH 603.627.4125 Suzette Paradis 7100 New England Models Group, Inc. 55 South Commercial St., Unit #10 Manchester NH 603.624.0555 Kathleen Longsderff Dagny DiBona 5047 Model and Talent Management P.O. Box 600646 Newtonville MA 617.969.3555 7408 Port City Models P.O. Box 6820 Portland ME 207.415.4015 6025 Cameo Agency, Inc. (The) 683 Main Street Waltham MA 781.647.8300 7400 Signature Marketing, Inc. 28361 Diehl Road, Unit B #106 Warrenville IL 888.860.1999 8203 Berkshire Beauties LLC 2 Beach Hill Road West Stockbridge MA 413-2.32-.0232 Ogden Gigli 7037 Exxcel Model & Talent, Inc. 5500 Main Street, Ste. 104 Williamsville NY 617.275.7542 Susan Lunetta 6082 Karon Shea Model Management 65 Water Street Worcester MA 508.755.0662 Karon Shea
Sat Feb 18 08:11 2012 in reply to Skylar Lockheart
Finding Models in Photography Talk
Multiple answers: --find a really cool location or a great concept and then approach models about it. Believe it or not, most models really are suckers about creating art and fantastic photos or concepts that are fresh. Tell someone you'd like to do a shoot in a waterfall or with a vintage automobile with her as Bonnie (paired up with Clyde) or with a breeder of exotic animals (so she can pose with a trained cheetah) and you'll get some models who will be interested. --look at what models indicate they want to shoot. A model says she's in love with 1920's vintage...find an old Victorian or B&B you can get access to. A model wants to shoot with two hunky weight lifters holding her above their heads...go visit your local gym and start asking strong guys. There needs to be a "WIIFM" element here if you don't have a great rep as a photographer with a stellar portfolio. And approaching a model saying "that project you're so excited about? I want to shoot it with you!" is one way to get the WIIFM. --hire a professional model. There are plenty of traveling models who are total pros...they've been doing this for years, they probably form poses in their sleep, they work with all kinds of shooters. And it seems like Pennsylvania is a hotbed for a lot of very talented, capable, professional models. For instance, I've done a lot of shoots with Sera Ferron (who's near Harrisburg). Her schedule is tricky these days but she's a real gem...versatile, talented, athletic, a master with makeup, great with clothing and costume, beautiful, lots of artistic talent, has worked with a ton of great photographers, totally diva-free and outstanding at creating poses (either from her own insight or your direction). Just be willing to pay her and work with her schedule and you'll be a very happy photographer. So go find a model with a good rep, contact her pre-shoot and tell her lots of details...that you want to jazz up your portfolio and want a couple of different looks (so not just all glamour nudes of her in the same setting or contemporary fashion of her in the same outfit). There are a lot of traveling pros who, if they were told, "I"m going to pay you to pose for me and create a diverse shoot of your dreams" would jump for joy....they're so often taking direction from shooters ("we're going to shoot Z") that to let them create the shoot with multiple themes and poses is something most would have a blast doing. --I travel a lot. One obstacle I find is that when models find I'm not local, their "is this guy a traveling ax-murder?" radar goes off. So tags and references help a lot. And having local ones helps even more. So your first couple of models, it makes sense to tag each other and make sure you provide enough care and feeding of the relationship so she can serve as a reference. As others have been saying: when you have a portfolio that looks good with a range of themes, you'll get a lot more interest from models. And when you get some tags from models you've worked with, you're no longer an unknown. Ed
Fri Feb 17 06:38 2012 in reply to Pixelbliss Studios
How does one become a paid model? in General Industry
There are a million ways you can make some non-specific amount of money that may or may not involve a picture or a few of yourself, ergo you "modelled" but, being that this is specifically a modelling/photography/Stylist site, and not a catch-all talent site, I tend to assume people are actually talking about modelling in the sense of being a model, not someone who is primarily something else but gets their picture taken once or twice and says they modelled FOR that. Acting is what got flo her job. She may appear in other things because she's NOW a celebrity, just like random celebrities grace the covers of fashion mags from time to time. That doesn't mean they're models, modelling is not what got them there, their OTHER talents are. They are something else, and they get their picture taken once in a while because of it. Models are models because they do modelling, modelling is what gets them their jobs. Standards may mean nothing to you personally, but in the world of getting paid as a freelance model on the internet standards absolutely apply to MOST, so they're very relevant and dangerous to just blow off with a "well I don't care bout no stinkin standards" attitude. Usually the people paying you (models) DO care, and if you don't fit them, you aint getting paid. In the way of standards in the modelling business, if she wants to make money she's going to have to MAKE herself fit those standards. How to go about doing that has been outlined already. If thats not something she wants to do, but still wants to make money, I hope she's a damn good singer or actress
Tue Feb 14 13:24 2012 in reply to Click Hamilton
Did I handle this correctly? in Model Colloquy
I'm going to start off by saying I've got Asperger's syndrome (if you don't know what that is, it vaguely means I have a lot of trouble communicating) so if you have any suggestions on what I should have done differently or anything like that, please explain. So someone contacted me for a vintage fashion shoot (which is weird, I don't get fashion work), I responded saying I was interested and asked for more information ("Do you have work on another website that I could look through? What is your availability? I noticed your profile says you're in *somewhere over the rainbow*. Do you know about when you will be in Denver?"). He said that he was busy but had open time slots for tonight, tomorrow, and the night after and asked me to leave a comment on his casting call because his "production manager she looks through those for available models that she want's me to shoot." I wasn't sure what that meant but I left a comment anyway. Then I said that I might be free tonight or tomorrow night, depending on if he could provide transportation and if I could make it work within my schedule (I had no shoots planned for those times, but I was planning on cleaning my house then so that could be worked around). I also said, "Would you mind giving me your list of references? I don't see any credits in your portfolio. How often do you work with MM models?" While I was waiting for him to respond I messaged the girl that left a TAG on his profile (it said something about how she enjoyed their shoot) and she messaged back saying she had a great time and they still talk a lot, but she needs to update her portfolio (I don't know why she said that, I never mentioned it being out of date. I went and looked at her profile again just barely and it has the new photos which I also thought was weird). Then he responded saying, "I work with MM models very often in fact shot on Sunday night... You can see in my tags on my profile from a model named *Britney Spears* It will be the most recent tag on my profile, You can see she really enjoyed working with me... If you would like I can provide her phone number you may call her." He also mentioned that he shoots a lot of nude, but doesn't put that in his profile since he does a lot of corporate work and doesn't want them to think of him as someone who shoots porn because they don't understand art. So I asked if he'd mind giving me several MM numbers, because I felt weird about just going off of *Britney Spears* since she had very few photos that hadn't been updated for a while. I don't know if I should have done it this way, but I said, "Would you mind giving me the MM numbers of a few other models you've worked with through Model Mayhem? I try to make a point of contacting several models every time I work with someone so I can better know what to expect. I find it helps me go into the shoot knowing more about the photographer and how he or she tends to work with models from the models' point of view." He gave me the MM# of *Britney Spears* again. We went back and forth a few times with me trying to find a better way of explaining exactly what I wanted and why, but he said, "i have a personal responsibility to protect those who i work with clients and models included. I give you that same promise. I have sent a message to a few other models requesting their permission. I will send you their info he they approve. If this is a deal killer i understand. Trust is very important to my work." I've never heard of someone not wanting anyone to hand out their MM#, but I figured it was because he's used to working with corporations and doesn't understand that models actually want more people to see their portfolios. So just in case, I did another Google search of his name and I kept finding other people, but I did find one place where he had left a TAG on a model's profile that said basically the same thing as his first correspondence with me, so I sent her a message asking her if she's worked with him and if she had how it was etc., and if not why not, but she hasn't answered. Then he called me and said that he was very busy and could only use one model for this project (I don't know why he said that, it seemed random to me). He asked if I knew I would for sure make it to our shoot, but I wasn't sure yet because I hadn't received any references and I didn't want to shoot in his hotel with less than a day's notice without references so I said something about how it was very late notice so I couldn't confirm yet, but I was working on fixing my schedule so I could fit it in. He said something I forgot and then "You're not good enough, goodbye," and hung up. Sorry I wrote a novel. I just don't know if I frustrated him or caused him to be upset by saying I couldn't confirm. I also don't know whether he was a real photographer that didn't understand references or if maybe he was trying to scam me or something and was trying to make me stop asking for them. But there's always the chance that I made a mistake in being pushy and possibly burned a bridge. Do you think I responded correctly? Is there some other way I should handle a similar situation in the future? What would you do if someone with a generic name and no credits that possibly doesn't understand how references work wanted to shoot with you? Edit: *Britney Spears* isn't actually the model's name. I didn't want to out anyone, so I put the first thing that came to mind. *Somewhere over the rainbow* is also not where the photographer lived. Again with the outing thing. Sorry for the confusion.
Mon Feb 13 22:38 2012
Saturday, March 17 - Riverside - St. Paddy's Day Nude/Topless Bash - Only $80 "THE BEST DEAL IN PHOTODAYS" Type of shoot: Nude/Topless, 18+ only Date: Saturday, Mar 17 Time: Group shoot event from 11am to 2pm. Private one-on-one shoots from 2:30pm to 5:40pm Location: Beautiful Luxury Home in the Riverside area Food and non-alcoholic drinks will be served Escorts, husbands, boy/girlfriends, managers, body-guards and Aunt Tilly are all welcomed provided they pay the $80 fee! Photographers Instructions: Cost to attend is $80... or check out our REFERRAL REWARD PROGRAM: Bring a photographer that's never registered at any of our events and get 50% off of your admittance! or... Bring a model we've never seen (non-MM ok) and if she poses at the shoot, get 50% off. Model's photos must be submitted prior to the shoot. Please send to: email@example.com Non refundable deposit of $40 via Paypal will reserve your spot. Please include your MM# and MM name to: firstname.lastname@example.org (deposit will be refunded only in case of cancellation of the event)... pay the remaining $40 at the door. Please message me to make other payment arrangements. Models will be selling releases for the group shoot for no more than $20 each. For private one-on-one shoots between 2:30pm and 5:40pm, you may book your favorite model(s) participating in this event in 30 minute increments. Time Slots 2:30 - 3:00 pm 3:10 - 3:40 pm 3:50 - 4:20 pm 4:30 - 5:00 pm 5:10 - 5:40 pm Contact/pm models directly with your request and for their rates including model release. You may bring 1 strobe or your speedlight. Save your spot now. Our last 6 events sold out and so will this one. We have some great models on tap for this shoot! Links to previous events: Oct 29, 2011 http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=785403 Sept 17, 2011 http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=779625 July 23, 2011 http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=762347 June 11, 2011 http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=755712 April 30,2011 http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=742782 Model's Instructions: ***Free admission. No charge for models!*** In order to participate in this shoot you must agree to pose at least topless during the group shoot... art, glamour themes. Please do your own hair and makeup. You may sell model releases for no more than $20. For one-on-one private shoots you set your rates, including model release, with photographer. To participate in private one-on-one shoots you must pose for the group shoot. You will be provided a safe, friendly, fun work environment. If you want to be a part of this group event please let me know asap because I expect the model slots to fill quickly, since I'm only looking for 10 models. If you (model/photographer) have any questions or concerns please feel free to message me. Let's have a fun shoot and create some great images.
Mon Feb 13 16:44 2012
So few Models in General Industry
I think they must be talking about a specific kind of modeling, too. My regular job is as a figure model. True, when people ask me what I do, I say I'm a FIGURE model (I don't just say I'm a model, because the connotations are different). But yeah--I model for a damn living (and man, I WISH I made 42,000 a year!). Figure modeling is modeling, it's just a specific kind of modeling. Also, both actors and models do television commercials--how do they separate who defines themselves as what? And are they counting glamour models? Models in the adult industry? Considering they seem to think a model is only a real model if you've seen a billboard with them on it, probably not. American Apparel often uses their own shop girls in their advertising. I guess girls who work at American Apparel are more "real" models than, well, real models.
Sun Feb 12 12:23 2012 in reply to Pixyst
Follow us on all of our networks Our Official Website Our Facebook Page Our Twitter Page Our Meetup Page Video footage of our recent event: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzLnWHfdWNg Naughty Vixens Day ~ 20+ Naughty Vixen Models going all out for you in there sexy naughty outfits. If you are a saint, this event might be to much for you to handle Theme: Naughty Vixens Day (Swimwear & Nude Models) When: Saturday March 10th, 2011 from 10:00am to 6pm Where: Private Residence in Woodland Hills, CA # of Models: 20+ (Swimwear & Nude Models) Food: Food & drinks will be provided Meet & Greet: 11am to 11:30am Group Shoot: 11:30am to 2:30pm Mini Break: 2:30pm to 2:50pm Private 1:1's: 2:50pm to 6pm Photographer Cost: $100. ($50.00 Deposit or Full Payment to reserve your spot) Book your own 1:1's with the model directly ~ (Pre-booking is strongly encouraged) Model Release agreements will be provided No Boyfriend/Assistants (unless they pay the entry fee) Refund Policy: No refunds. If you can't attend, we will credit your payment to the next event. Click Button To Register (Registrations must be done by March 9th) [img]http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/4443/registernowbuttond.jpg[/img] One on One time slots: (1)2:50 pm - 3:20 pm (2)3:30 pm - 4:00 pm (3)4:10 pm - 4:40 pm (4)4:50 pm - 5:20 pm (5)5:30 pm - 6:00 pm 2:1 Model to Photographer Ratio Model/Photographer Rotation to assure equal time You may bring 2 strobes or your Speedlights for the indoor shoots Outside the residency, natural light, etc Model Info: Free admission Must participate in group shoot in order to sell 1:1's Must pose swimwear or lingerie in group shoot You may sell model releases for no more than $10, $20 for nudes Set your rates for 1:1 shoots & release agreements with the photographer Model Release agreements will be provided No escorts (unless they pay the photographer fee) We just completed our 1st fun & exciting event of 2012 & we are looking to top it with this one. Surprise announcements will be announced in the next days to come. Thread Link to our recent event: http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=817306 Video footage of our recent event: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzLnWHfdWNg Models or Photographers with any questions, please email me @ Arthur@groupshootevents.com [img]http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/4964/60094159392.jpg[/img] [img]http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/422009_320310308014604_100001069120655_830704_50966286_n.jpg[/img] [img]http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/7623/00000000000000000000000yt.jpg[/img] [img]http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/417621_320310421347926_100001069120655_830706_1635096944_n.jpg[/img] [img]http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/426926_320310938014541_100001069120655_830709_2000590960_n.jpg[/img] Model Lineup Click on models image to contact them for 1on1 rates Jennz Mayz [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/120111/17/4f0e3946c15c3.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Nicole Ponder [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/110716/00/4e214130067da.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Lacy [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/110806/22/4e3e28d0a6650.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Valerie Hope [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/111202/21/4ed9b32aba91a.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Marie Cruz [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/120205/01/4f2e4810a74b9.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Carol Seleme [img]http://photos4.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/8/4/d/c/600_93574012.jpeg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Implied Nude Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Ashley Marie [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/081229/21/4959b7de01dd6.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Brianna Nicole [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/110515/12/4dd0292a85616.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Alexis Nichole [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/110917/16/4e7533ea9f33f.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Swimwear Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Mandee Varela [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/120207/07/4f313cddc9ee2.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Swimwear Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Miss Les ~ Pre-book her before all her slots are filled. [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/120214/20/4f3b35ecf0781.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) (1)2:50 pm - 3:20 pm (2)3:30 pm - 4:00 pm (3)4:10 pm - 4:40 pm (4)4:50 pm - 5:20 pm (5)5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Olivia Morgan Price [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/110912/00/4e6db958ddc71.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Implied Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Diana Ochoa [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/110208/01/4d5109019847d.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Naomi Herold [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/110909/10/4e6a501789747.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Katie [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/111022/19/4ea3758627eb0.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Tabitha Easley [img]http://photos1.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/8/4/9/6/600_93393942.jpeg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Shaunae Stovall [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/111011/09/4e946835e8c83.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Lyna Ly [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/110926/00/4e80283b6905f.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Ela Passion [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/110720/23/4e27c39025183.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Implied Nudes Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Chanel D [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/110615/00/4df860df10d1b.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Lilu H [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/100830/21/4c7c865c2044f.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm MORE MODELS WILL BE ADDED SHORTLY
Sun Feb 12 04:23 2012
Valentines Theme event which will take place in a 5,000+ sqft private residence in Tarzana, Ca. Come create unique images with gorgeous glamour models. Theme:Valentines Day Theme (Swimwear & Nude Models) When: Saturday February 11th, 2011 from 10:00am to 6pm Where: 5,000+ sqft Private Residence in Tarzana, CA (address will be provided to attendees) # of Models: 20+ (Swimwear & Nude Models) Food: Food & drinks will be provided Meet & Greet: 10am to 11am Group Shoot: 11am to 2:30 pm Private 1:1's: 2:45pm to 6pm Photographer Cost: $100 ($50 deposit, pay balance upon arrival) Book your own 1:1's with the model directly Model Release agreements will be provided No Boyfriend/Assistants (unless they pay the $100 entry fee) Refund Policy: No refunds. If you can't attend, we will credit your payment to the next event. Click Register Button Image To Register must be done by February 10th, 2012 [img]http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/4443/registernowbuttond.jpg[/img] Model Info: Free admission Must participate in group shoot in order to sell 1:1's Must pose swimwear or lingerie in group shoot You may sell model releases for no more than $10, $20 for nudes Set your rates for 1:1 private shoots & release agreements with photographer Model Release agreements will be provided No escorts (unless they pay the photographer fee) Models or Photographers with any questions, please email me @ Groupshootevents@gmail.com 1on1 booking time slots: 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm [b]Location Pics: [img]http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/316256_237784476267188_100001069120655_609371_312544146_n.jpg[/img] [img]http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/304405_237784982933804_100001069120655_609373_2132106640_n.jpg[/img] [img]http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/315348_237785576267078_100001069120655_609375_1457820188_n.jpg[/img] [img]http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/300191_237785842933718_100001069120655_609376_1644297626_n.jpg[/img] [img]http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/304771_237789026266733_100001069120655_609388_1334885037_n.jpg[/img] [img]http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/306769_237789266266709_100001069120655_609389_1658548868_n.jpg[/img] [img]http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/303795_237805812931721_100001069120655_609422_141375316_n.jpg[/img] Model Lineup Click on models image to contact them for 1on1 rates Tabitha Easley [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/111008/23/4e913d34c7298.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Carol Seleme [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/110924/13/4e7e3734adc39.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Implied Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Daisy Ann [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/111128/16/4ed4255cb96c1.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Swimwear Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Jamie Michelle [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/120131/23/4f28edde2c41f.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Angel Bates [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/120202/10/4f2ad5557f4bf.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Arley Elizabeth [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/101230/10/4d1cd51c997d9.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Implied Topless Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Ela Passion [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/110720/23/4e27c39025183.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Implied Nudes Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Olivia Morgan Price [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/110912/00/4e6db958ddc71.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Implied Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Lorena Lopez [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/110726/19/4e2f7a448aeb9.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Gezzilyn Leon [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/120128/21/4f24dfc514298.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Siray Kong [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/111210/02/4ee32dcec95e9.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Claudia Khalil [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/110602/14/4de7fd4a641dc.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Scarlet Starr [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/110822/20/4e532259745e9.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Nordique Fier [img]http://i40.tinypic.com/i2m6ug.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Amelia Simone [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/120101/22/4f01537ebc6b9.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Annie Violet [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/110812/02/4e44ee60f3c41.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Kristin Barcelona [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/111230/08/4efde644c58e1.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Vanessa Sheri [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/111017/13/4e9c961027f52.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Tracie Douglas [img]http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/9531/imagephpn.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Genesis - Fresh face to the modeling scene [img]http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/7783/29657421900326816028810.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Kathy Elizabeth [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/111111/09/4ebd57e02a2c5.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Roxie Lian [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/110622/00/4e019932dfe5f.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Cedestoni Salazar [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/100510/13/4be8660e5b2ca.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Nikita Penalosa [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/110810/12/4e42e05260a93.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Additional models will be added shortly
Tue Jan 31 22:58 2012
Sports Bikes & Sexy girls in Events
On the 2/26/12 i will be hosting the Sports Bikes & Sexy girls photo shoot event. Location: PM Prestige Motoring,inc. 8545 Arjons Dr Suit P. San Diego, CA 92126 Description Happy to announce my new event: Sport Bikes & Sexy girls Hello to all Photographers, Models, MUA & Hair Stylist!!! This up coming event is all about motorcycle and beautiful models. Its another great opportunity for photographers & models to build an amazing portfolio in just one day. If you already come to one of my events- you know its fun and you know you will have a great day!! You will be able to work 1 on 1 - and im sure the pics will be HOT!!! All you need to do is to come with great attitude and a big smile!!! The event will take place in a very cool Motorcycle Show room at: PM Prestige Motoring,inc. Located at - 8545 Arjons Dr Suit P. San Diego, CA 92126 ( off Miramar Rd) I will have about 10-12 Sport bike such as : Yamaha R-6 , R-1 Suzuki 600 & 750 Honda Kawasaki ZX 62 Harley Davidson Photo shoot info: This event will be divided to 2 sessions First session: 10:30 am - 2:30 pm Models : I will have 2 MUA & 2 Hair stylist Please show up on time. I have a limit of 10 models!! Outfits: Bikini, Lingerie, jeans, leather Jackets- to make it simple: what ever you like!!! Photographers: We will start at 11:30 until 2:30 please arrived by 11 am. I have a limit of 15 photographers **** Photographers please note: i will have 2 pro nude model in every session. if interested to shoot with the nude models- please let me know and i will forward you pics of models. its $75 per hour per photographer. its a closed section with full privacy. Second session: 3pm- 6pm Models: Please come at 2pm for Make up & Hair I will have 2 MUA & 2 Hair stylist I have a limit of 10 models!! Outfits: Bikini, Lingerie, jeans, leather Jackets- to make it simple: what ever you like!!! Photographers: We will start at 3pm until 6pm please arrived by 11 am. I have a limit of 15 photographers **** Photographers please note: i will have 2 pro nude model in every session. if interested to shoot with the nude models- please let me know and i will forward you pics of models. its $75 per hour per photographer. its a closed section with full privacy. Cover Fee: Models: Free but tips for the MUA & Hair Stylist will be much appreciated photographers: $40 Like every event: I will have cold drinks, Fruits, snacks & chocolates. Now- if you read until here - great just go and RSVP Thanks Simo Pinto
Tue Jan 31 17:58 2012
Posing nude/Topless/Implied in General Industry
Well, many of the models I worked with already had no issues with topless/nudity. They had made that choice for them selves long before they decided to "model." Others looked at modeling as a way to explore aspects of themselves and society. For others, it didn't make a hill of beans of difference They just did it. No "baggage." On the other hand, models who are "shy", I remember something one of the old time photographers said. "It's not modesty, but vanity that keeps a woman in her clothes." That's as far as I go with it. As for "resistance" .... that's a whole other story. I don't push people to do things. In fact, I make them beg I do my best to talk new models out of posing nude, doing "fetish" or anything like that. I have a few pretty good speaches for new models, which if they still want to model after them, well.... they've been warned Nude modeling of any sort is a *BIG* decision, one that will stay with you your whole life -- and beyond. The images *WILL* be seen by people, and will pop up at the WORST times. The more you do, the more chances there are. What you do at 18 and 19 will pop up when you are 30 and have kids in school. Face recognition software is absolutely scary! We let picassa go through our collection of phots spanning the past 40 years,and the picks it made of people during those 40 years was mind blowing! It even found familial relations between people we don't think look anything alike at all! Feature for feature there is nothing similar. So, imagine what it will be like in a few more years! Don't let anyone talk you into doing something. Don't think just because "everyone" else is doing it, you should. Look around you. If you don't see it in your daily life, at home, at work, on the street, etc than everyone is *NOT* doing it, and it's only on-line in a small closed off group like MM you see it. So, "shy" models, is one thing. _RESISTANT_ models are completely another. Remember, there really is no "issue" for a photographer shooting naked women in the most disgusting, revealing, or compromising poses. They are "heroes" with their buddies, and "the man" among their friends. On the other hand, the girl who did the photos is not as quite well revered. She has to live with them as a constant reminder of what she did -- and how OTHER PEOPLE will look at them over the years. That's the reality. It's far, far different than the "cool" factor of doing nudes. The way I look at it, is if I have to ask more than once (eg: I do nudes. If you want to work with me, I do nudes.) than I really need to find a different model. I'm looking for trouble, and potentially causing trouble for the model. That said, I *have* worked with hundreds of nude models over the years, and many have modeled only for me, and no one else. Many have worked on an idea, or a project they felt was interesting, or they wanted some photos to mark a phase of their life, and that was it. Nothing more. On the flip side, I've lost count of even an estimate of the number of people I've talked out of doing nudes, and I sleep better because of it. There have been people I never got to photograph who I wanted to more than anything.... but it didn't happen, or it wasn't right. Again. I sleep well at night. Scott
Fri Jan 27 02:45 2012 in reply to KarliBee
Shooting Sexy Swimwear Models In Borneo :-) in Photography Talk
Pre Production Casting for the right model. A few days ago i held my casting for the Borneo shoot in London. There were models coming from every top London agency. Over 2.5 hours I looked at 52 different models in swimwear or their undies and their books, I also took very simple front, side back full length and close up shots of each girl so I could send them to my client to get their opinions of who they liked, its a good way of remember each model as they are with out fancy make up or styling, if a model looks good this way you can be sure she will for the shoot, also you get an idea of how they move and hold them selves for the camera (not comments please), and a little about their personality, but unfortunately I did not see one that I thought was right, so I began scouring the models agencies around the world, we are going to have to fly our models in any way so it would make little difference to the budget if we flew a model in from NY LA Paris London or where ever... There are several things to take into account when selecting a model for swimwear. Body shape has to be perfectly toned and a good shape, no fake excessively big boobs, a perfect uk size 8 to 10, with 34b/c cup boobs c22 to 24in waist and 34 to 36in hips, height around 5ft 8in to 5ft 10in tall. Good even clear skin tone that will not burn in the sun in 10 mins so olivey colored skin is perfect. Healthy shinny hair. The models figure size is dictated by the manufacturers swimwear samples sizes. My model look brief for the shoot was healthy fun loving healthy living beach girl that spends a lot of her life on the beach, sort of surfer girl that's quietly sexy and confident in herself and loving life to the full. As it happened I had made contact with a perfect model for the shoot through an art director that I know in New York, he recommended I look at XXXXXX XXXXXX. PERFECT choice I thought. At first I thought my client would not pay the fees she wanted but after a little persuading about how perfect she would be for their brand and presenting a few videos and images of her, my client said yes, we will use her. She is now booked for this shoot. My client decided that we will shoot a second collection whilst there so I also need to select a second model. I had chosen a really lovely girl to propose to the client that I have shot before but my client though her a little too sexy for the first collection but thought her to be perfect for the second collection. She is also now booked for the second shoot. So my 2 day swimwear shoot is now a 4 day shoot and I am very pleased to get an extended trip and two jobs to charge for. I will write about the process that occurred before the casting another day, also about all of the logistics, flights, checking out the what which where and how re shooting in Borneo. Its not as straight forward as you may thing. Sorry to be so secretive regarding the models it sort of client confidence thing until their images are published its not such a good idea to splash the models a client wants to use around the world. i hope you understand.. You will find out eventually. :-) Keep coming back for more and please post your questions. My best regards Bruce Smith MORE TO COME..
Mon Jan 23 17:13 2012
Is it wrong to charge a deposit in Photography Talk
Is it wrong to charge a deposit? Wrong? Probably not. Constructive? Also probably not. Some thoughts in random order: >>> You went 0 out of 7. The common denominator is you. Couldn't that indicate that there is something you are doing / offering that makes it easy for models to flake on you? <----- Two no-shows in 18 years. >>> I missed the part where you check these models out (e.g. checked references). Perhaps you need to be more selective. >>> Many models, especially the reliable ones, will find the deposit scheme unfair & inequitable. The most common complaint by photographers is similar to this thread: "Why are models flaking on me?" The most common complaint by models is this: "How long do I have to wait for the photographs from the TF* session?" So, if a deposit scheme is your solution, I would think that a "fair" deposit scheme would go like this... ... Photographer & model agree to work together. ... Model gives photographer a $25 deposit. ... This deposit is refunded to the model as soon as she shows up. ... Photographer & model work together. ... Photographer gives model a $100 deposit. (*) See note. ... Photographer delivers the promised images in the promised format. ... Model refunds the $100 deposit. (*) The photographer's deposit is larger than the model's because... ... Usually the photographer has a greater financial stability than the model, ... At this point, the session is done & the work has been completed. If the model flakes, no work has taken place. My guess is that many photographers would be happy to receive a deposit from a model, but few would be happy to give a deposit to a model. Yet, to me, this scheme is the only one that seems fair.
Fri Jan 20 11:32 2012 in reply to T Time Photography
I am pleased to announce our FIRST South Florida Beach Shoot. I have held SIX Arizona Desert Shoots in the past and this will be organized and run in a similar manner. I have done a "dry run" for this last year with a Florida based model while on vacation so that it would go in a smoothe and well run fashion. It is a visual feast for the eyes! Arrival day will be Friday, May 4. We will be headquartered in a hotel on Ft. Lauderdale Beach. Arrive on Friday in the afternoon in time for our fun Meet and Greet Reception @ 6pm RIGHT on the beach. Or arrive earlier and enjoy the Florida sun at the beach or pool. TWO DAYS of beach shooting is planned. We will visit TWO beaches each day (Saturday AND Sunday) in the nearby Miami Beach area. World famous legal nude Haulover Beach, South Beach and two additional ones in the nearby area; Oleta State Park and Virginia Key. We will even stop by and shoot at Jimbo's. on of the most interesting locations in the area. If you want some really outside of the box shots,this place is awesome. Old abandoned cars, trucks, trailers, neon colored buildings, grafitt; sort of industrial "grunge" by he bay. Google it. It is very interesting and many years ago it alsow as a legal nude beach. Now is is just "unofficiallly" nude....and some awesome views of the bay. Models will be posing up to FULL NUDE where appropriate; otherwise swim suit, topless, and implied.It is said that topless is now legal on ALL beaches in Dade County (Miami). Haulover Beach is a LEGALLY NUDE beach! Saturday night will be available for some private 1:1 boudoir shooting with our models in at the hotel suite. The models will be available up to FULL NUDE! All the models are familiar with the locations. It will be FUN and a memorable time for all that attend. Spectacular models, Spectacular scenery and a LOT of fun......You DO NOT WANT TO MISS THIS- I assure you! This event will be limited to only TEN photographers. Sign up NOW to assure your spot on this AWESOME EVENT. There are only a few spots left..Models will be assigned as needed with a minimum of 2:1 ratio- photographer/ models i.e. Four Photogs--Two Models, Six Photogs-Three models, Eight photogs-Four models: SCHEDULED MODELS: [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/110419/12/4dadddfa29a8b.jpg[/img] Cristal Catalina: http://www.modelmayhem.com/165994 [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/110513/03/4dcd0d40d122e.jpg[/img] Mika: http://www.modelmayhem.com/838234 [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/120116/13/4f14978786923.jpg[/img] Crissy lin: http://www.modelmayhem.com/640572 [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/120327/09/4f71efdc1d53d.jpg[/img] Jen Capone: http://www.modelmayhem.com/1941988 [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/100305/10/4b915177ee00c.jpg[/img] Audrey Baker: http://www.modelmayhem.com/1581921 Separate 1:1 Indoor Boudoir Lingerie/ Nude at Hotel Suite on Saturday Evening All models available up to FULL NUDE. One hour 1:1 session-$100 One half hour-$60 PHOTOGRAPHER FEE- $349 PayPal: email@example.com * Includes Friday Evening Meet & Greet, TWO DAYS Beach Shooting with Models, UP TO EIGHT FULL HOURS of Shooting on several different beach locations RT Transportation both days to/ from beach locations and hotel, snacks, refreshments at hotel location. **NOT included are RT transportation to Ft. Lauderdale, hotel acoomodations, additional meals, transportation from airport/ hotel / airport ***Most models are also available for additional shooting in the area on Monday/ Tuesday. Details to be discussed individually with the models. Any questions/ help-Please write or call: Rick Pickert 414.988.9747
Mon Jan 16 22:02 2012
Have you ever wanted to shoot HOT and beautiful models like the ones you see in Maxim, FHM, or other men magazines? Do you have a DSLR but don't know how to take awesome pictures like the magazines? Have you seen those wonderful cheerleaders as you watch you favorite sports? Join us in this amazing Sport Theme Shoot!! We have a limit of 18 photographers so sign up now or be left out! For those who haven't been to our events, we are the #1 theme group shoot event in Orange County. Photographers from Los Angeles, OC, Inland Empire attending our events. We are novice friendly! As many of the past photographer can tell you, Sammy and myself will be available to all beginners as to how to take properly exposed photo. Keep in mind, this isn't a workshop on photography so we won't be going through all the details. Instead, we will assist the beginners using the studio or speedlite light to capture the photo correctly. Preparations: - Photographer should have prior knowledge on how to adjust their camera in manual mode. You'll need to know how to adjust aperture, shutter speed and ISO. - If you have lighting equipment, we suggest you bring them. - If you are planning on bring backdrop, please contact me because space is limited. During the group shoot session, you will have an opportunity to shoot all the beautiful models to see which one you wish to work with more. Many of the models are pre-booked before the event. You can contact them directly either email or on ModelMayhem.com (their MM number are posted with their photo). We encourage you to book them ahead of time because the more popular the model, the faster they'll book all their slots. Book models for 1 on 1 shoots at 1/2 hour increments Checkout the models awesome sexy photos on Model Mayhem site just look up their MM#. Message the models and see if you can hire the model you want after the group event for 1 on 1 sessions. You will have private session with the model of you choice especially if you have a concept in mind, or models may have a specialty which you may be interested in shooting i.e. pinup art. Sign them up before it's all gone... Private Session starting: 2:00pm-2:30 pm 2:40pm-3:10 pm 3:20pm-3:50pm 4:00pm-4:30pm 4:40pm-5:10pm 5:20pm-5:50pm Details: Date: Saturday January 28th Time: 10am to 5:50pm. The main event is from 10am to 1:30pm. Lunch is served at 1:30pm. From 2-5:50pm you can reserve the model of your choice for 1 on 1 sessions at 1/2 hour increments. Model: 8 - 10 professional models NO friend, boyfriend, husband, wife, kids, assistant! But if you absolutely need to bring someone, they will have to pay, no exception! Information are subject to change. Keep checking back for updates with models Confirmed and attending MODELS: Photos coming soon! Tiffy Mac Mayhem #2247765 Emma Mayhem # 2426627 Yentiza Mayhem #892785 Tara Mayhem# 68424 Sandy MM#1328206 Sarah MM# 2273662 Annika MM#1257953
Mon Jan 16 15:49 2012
Why Does Height Matter? in Model Colloquy
No we are not the exception to the rule. On the contrary; all the day in day out stuff showroom stuff and small shows; is done by fitting models with maybe a spattering of agency models. Unless it is London fashion week you just don't see the agency or top fashion models. I have not had an exceptional career just pretty normal journeyman stuff. With boutiques; young and new designers; college fashion shows etc - and all the good ones do little shows - the normal thing is models like us; no way could they afford agency models but they want a liitle experience. Provincially the boutique shows can pay really well because they basically want a couple of good models to help girls with little experience but can't afford agency models. This is most of the paid journeyman fashion work; not the high fly glamour stuff people see a couple of weeks a year in the magazines. There are four divisions below the premier league in soccer and dozens of regional leagues below that but it employs most professional footballers; even if they don't get a fraction of the money the premiership players are on. It is the same in fashion. Every now and again one of those players may get the chance with a premiership side. I think the problem here is that people think 'fashion show' and they think the big designers; Milan shows etc. That is a very small % of paid work in fashion shows; and then you will get exclusively tall girls but even then you will get the odd Kate Moss. So does she look silly next to the 6ft models? I have never come across a tall fitting model actually. As I stated my flatmates partner much shorter than me also did a lot of fitting modelling. It is the stats they want; and for the clothes to look good; enormous patience and input and the ability to model. So when they have done something you have to do your stuff then they make the alterations. In lingerie that is very important. If the stuff is designed on you it is going to look better on your than anyone so that is why they use fitting models in showroom (private shows for a few clients) and in runway shows. I agree that taller girls get all the agency work. But not fitting; and fiitting is what an awful lot of us do; but you have to be in a metropolis famous for fashion. London is. So the idea of a 5ft 11" template isn't right. I have done other fitting not just lingerie too. A 5ft 11" model may float a dress down the runway better but that doesn't mean it was made on someone her height; and to the eye of someone who does this work I think one can sometimes tell. Especially when they haven't much of a bust. And yes size 3 (UK 8/10) is a US size 4. That is the truth Shon. Below the tip of the iceberg of fashion height is still a factor but not so much. And Model Mayhem is generally going to be pretty much below the tip of the iceberg; but plenty of the journeyman paid work. Don't get me wrong; height is still a factor but stats and shape (and each designer has different requirements) can be more important. And yes of course; if you are shorter as a fitting model be prepared to stand in 6" heels day in day out. I think part of the problem here is that many of the fashion photographers only see the top of the fashion iceberg and judge everything by that.
Mon Jan 16 02:46 2012 in reply to Shon D.- Femme
Guys! These are the dates of our planned South Florida Beach Shoot . Arrival day will be Friday, May 4. We will be headquartered in a hotel in Ft. Lauderdale. Airfares are very attractive to Ft. Lauderdale and with a medium sized airport, much easier to ger in/out of. Direct flights from most major cities should be plentiful and competitively priced. Arrival on Friday mid afternoon in time for our Meet and Greet Reception @ 6pm. The hotel is RIGHT on the beach or if you prefer there are others in the immediate area.You can reach the hotel by taxi or shuttle bus from the airport. TWO DAYS of beach shooting is planned. Two beaches each day (Saturday AND Sunday) in the nearrby Miami Beach area. World famous legal nude Haulover Beach, South Beach( South Point) and two additional ones in the nearby area, Oleta State Park and Virginia Key.Models will be posing up to PENTHOUSE NUDE where appropriate; otherwise swim suit, topless,and implied. Saturday night will be available for some private 1:1s with our models in at the hotel suite. The models will be available up to Penthouse/ Met Art styles....Ooh la la!. I have personally done a "recon" of the beaches and area last June on a top secret mission with an Florida based model ... All the models are familiar with the loactions. It will be FUN and a memorable time for all that attend. Spectacular models, Spectacular scenery and a LOT of fun......You DO NOT WANT TO MISS THIS- I assure you! This event will be limited to only EIGHT photographers.Sign up NOW to assure your spot on this AWESOME EVENT. There are only a few spots left. A $100 DEPOSIT will hold your spot. You can pay the balance up to 30 days prior to the shoot..Models will be assigned as needed with a minimum of 2:1 ratio- photographer/ models i.e. Four Photogs--Two Models, Six Photogs-Three models, Eight photogs-Four models: SCHEDULED MODELS: [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/110923/21/4e7d605d2a2c9.jpg[/img] Mia Corday: http://www.modelmayhem.com/620538 [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/111118/14/4ec6dd570133a.jpg[/img] APS Captive: http://www.modelmayhem.com/2185549 [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/120116/13/4f14978786923.jpg[/img]Crissy lin: http://www.modelmayhem.com/640572[img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/080705/20/48700d9f5a67a.jpg[/img] Galas: http://www.modelmayhem.com/755392 [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/111229/13/4efcdbfc70a78.jpg[/img] Jen Capone: http://www.modelmayhem.com/1941988 Separate 1:1 Indoor Boudoir Lingerie/ Nude at Hotel Suite on Saturday Evening All models available up to Penthouse Style. One hour 1:1 session-$100 One half hour-$60 PHOTOGRAPHER FEE- $349 RSVP Secured with $100 deposit PayPal: firstname.lastname@example.org * Includes Friday Evening Meet & Greet, TWO DAYS Beach Shooting with Models, RT Transportation both days to/ from beach locations, snacks, refreshments at hotel location. **NOT included are RT transportation to Ft. Lauderdale, hotel acoomodations, additional meals, transportation from airport/ hotel / airport ***Most models are also available for additional shooting in the area on Monday/ Tuesday. Details to be discussed individually with the models. Any questions/ help/ recommendations or anything-Please write or call: Rick Pickert 414.988.9747
Sun Jan 15 23:53 2012
Model Release Please? in Photography Talk
I think two separate, but similar, issues are being confused. One is permission for the photographer to edit an image of the model, and the other is permission for licensees to edit the photographer's final work. The language in a typical model release does not give the model permission to alter the image. A model release usually contains language that allows the photographer to modify or distort the model's image. This makes it clear that the photographer can remove a mole, smooth skin, even change eye color. Without said language the model might make a case that she only gave permission to use a true and un-edited version of her image. Generally, the photographer owns the copyright to the image. Copyright law generally forbids people form modifying a copyrighted work without the copyright holder's permission. It is not uncommon for a usage license to reinforce this idea by including language that prohibits the licensee from modifying the work. To summarize: In many (but not all) jurisdictions, the model has the ability to place certain restrictions on the use of her likeness, and the copyright holder can place certain restrictions on the reproducing or commercial use of an image. For "commercial" use of an image, one generally needs permission from both the photographer and the model. General industry practice is for the photographer to obtain the model's assignable permission at the time of the shoot (this is what the "mode release" is for). The photographer than assigns that permission to the client when he gives them the usage license. If the photographer wants to commercially use an image, he only needs the model's permission (model release) as he is already the copyright holder. If the model want's to use the image commercially, or reproduce the image, she only needs the photographer's permission (usage license) as she already has the rights to her likeness. The model release is pertains to using the model's likeness. The Usage license pertains to use of a copyrighted image. The above is of course a gross simplification as to how it works in much of the world. In some areas a model release is usually not required. In some areas the photographer is not the natural copyright holder, and the specific details of a particular situation may outweigh the generalities. By "commercial use" I mean usage that would typically require a model release (the legal definition of "commercial use" is not the same as the common sense definition.) Always consult a competent local attorney for reliable legal advice. Never trust legal advice you get from the web.
Tue Jan 10 07:50 2012 in reply to BrianThedellPhotography
Ever had a paid model... in General Industry
It should all be discussed prior to the shoot and the model should understand exactly what is expected of them and acknowledge that fact. You should send them a confirmation email before the shoot stating what the terms are of your shoot for them to sign and send back to you. If they don't then cancel the shoot because they obviously don't have a clue what this industry is about. This is applicable both to amateur and professional alike. Your model release should be worded well enough so it is easy for them to understand what it pertains to and cover all usages such as portfolio, print, web, design, time, area and make sure they sign and date it before you start shooting. Personally, I don't understand why photographers who have paid models to sit for them then give them access to the images. They have no right to the images. They've been paid. Essentially you are paying the model to shoot their book for them. How dumb is that? Why don't you just get a gun and shoot yourself because it'll be quicker. All that happens is that models start putting themselves on a pedestal and demeaning the value of the work. The point they miss is that this is a symbiotic relationship. Models who try to throw their self importance around are a ball ache and should be avoided. They are not your little princess. They are not going to go out with you because you are nice to them. Think about how much you invest in time, effort, equipment and cost and then compare it to what the model is bringing to the table. The majority of girls on here are not models is the sense of agency girls. They are amateurs who don't have the experience nor the look that will really extend your own look very far yet some of them are trying to charge lawyeresque fees because they had a mate take some snaps of them in their undies. Unfortunately today's society supports the idea that being center of attention and getting naked is enough to have your cake and eat it. Added to this is a large number of amateur 'photographers' who are so ridiculously sycophantic in their submission to average models that it's hardly any wonder why egos are so massively out of proportion. What ever level of photographer you are have respect for your subject but have equal respect for yourself and your work. I wouldn't expect experienced models to shoot for nothing with entry level photographers but it's highly unlikely they would anyway but on the other hand new models shouldn't expect to walk straight into a world they don't understand with their hands out. The phrase 'this is how I make my living' is applicable to both photographers and models so cancels it out, in my opinion, despite my overheads and effort being exponentially more. Models who tell me of their student woes get my own woes back regarding my tax bill. At the end of the day it's the individual's choice but as long as egos get fed, photographers pay for substandard models and nobody educates the poorly educated misunderstandings will occur.
Sun Jan 8 04:23 2012 in reply to John Jebbia
Saturday, Jan 28 - Riverside - 10 Nude/Topless Models #1 - Only $80 "THE BEST DEAL IN PHOTODAYS" Type of shoot: Nude/Topless, 18+ only Date: Saturday, Jan 28 Time: Group shoot event from 12pm to 3pm. Private one-on-one shoots from 3:15pm to 6:25pm Location: Beautiful Luxury Home in the Riverside area Food and non-alcoholic drinks will be served Escorts, husbands, boy/girlfriends, managers, body-guards and Aunt Tilly are all welcomed provided they pay the $80 fee! Photographers Instructions: Cost to attend is $80... or check out our REFERRAL REWARD PROGRAM: Bring a photographer that's never registered at any of our events and get 50% off of your admittance! or... Bring a model we've never seen (non-MM ok) and if she poses at the shoot, get 50% off. Model's photos must be submitted prior to the shoot. Please send to: email@example.com Non refundable deposit of $40 via Paypal will reserve your spot. Please include your MM# and MM name to: firstname.lastname@example.org (deposit will be refunded only in case of cancellation of the event)... pay the remaining $40 at the door. Please message me to make other payment arrangements. Models will be selling releases for the group shoot for no more than $20 each. For private one-on-one shoots between 3:15pm and 6:25pm, you may book your favorite model(s) participating in this event in 30 minute increments. Time Slots 3:15 - 3:45 pm 3:55 - 4:25 pm 4:35 - 5:05 pm 5:15 - 5:45 pm 5:55 - 6:25 pm Contact/pm models directly with your request and for their rates including model release. You may bring your own lighting equipment. Pocket Wizards and/or speedlights recommended. I'll have 2 pocket wizards for rent, please contact me to reserve one. Save your spot now. Our last 6 events sold out and so will this one. We have some great models on tap for this shoot! Links to previous events: Oct 29, 2011 http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=785403 Sept 17, 2011 http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=779625 July 23, 2011 http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=762347 June 11, 2011 http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=755712 April 30,2011 http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=742782 Model's Instructions: ***Free admission. No charge for models!*** In order to participate in this shoot you must agree to pose at least topless during the group shoot... art, glamour themes. Please do your own hair and makeup. You may sell model releases for no more than $20. For one-on-one private shoots you set your rates, including model release, with photographer. To participate in private one-on-one shoots you must pose for the group shoot. You will be provided a safe, friendly, fun work environment. If you want to be a part of this group event please let me know asap because I expect the model slots to fill quickly, since I'm only looking for 10 models. If you (model/photographer) have any questions or concerns please feel free to message me. Let's have a fun shoot and create some great images.
Sat Jan 7 19:07 2012
Where are my fellow plus-size models!? in Model Colloquy
It is because magazines and designers are using plus models in many heights and sizes. Examples can be Plus Model Magazine (they did a spread on models who are paid and wear an 18+, here is a blog link http://plus-model-mag.com/category/plus … us-models/), Monif C., Dereon, and Just As You Are. Sure there are many more. Sometimes too Alternative Models as I guess you would call them, are all shapes and sizes. They model for designers such as Domino Dollhouse or Pin Up Girl Clothing. People see them in Pin Up or Nudes as well. I mean it is confusing. Consumers of plus size fashion believe why are their models modeling their clothes if they don't even shop in the stores? Clear example of this photo. Of course there is not denying she is gorgeous, but read the comments. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid … mp;theater But, I am sure that is the way with just fashion too. Even so this article depicts what someone was really trying to find out about this plus size industry. It all depends on the designer of the fashions. http://plus-model-mag.com/2011/07/when- … %E2%80%9D/ “I wish I knew who exactly was determining the size of plus-size models. Whenever I ask a brand, they tell me the agencies don’t have high-caliber bigger models. When I speak to agencies, they tell me that the clients are calling for smaller models, so I’m not exactly sure what is going on. All I know is that I can’t get a clear answer from anyone.” or maybe this quote from Tim Gunn... "Have you seen most of the plus-size sections out there? It’s horrifying. Whoever’s designing for plus-size doesn’t get it. The entire garment needs to be reconceived. You can’t just take a size 8 and make it larger. In my travels, I’ve been an advocate for larger women. I’ve been talking to designers, but only a half-dozen make an effort. Most say, ‘I don’t want a woman who’s a size 10 or 11 wearing my clothes.’ Well, shame on you! It’s not realistic. We need to address real women with real needs." Seriously, just like MM, no clear answer. So who is really to say? This argument will go on and on. Anyway, good luck Amanda on your modeling ventures.
Thu Jan 5 09:54 2012 in reply to Lifestyle_Images
Breaking a Model Down to Get the Shot in Photography Talk
Hi Guys! One dispute that seems to come up for me, over the years that I’ve been a fashion photographer, is the treatment of the models. Or better still, what to do with a model who isn’t giving you what you need. So here’s the dilemma: you cast a girl who you think fits the look you’re going for on a particular shoot. You organize the team, putting together the best hair stylist, make up artist and stylist for the job. You rent or find the location. You go over and over the details with your team before you even get to the set. You leave no stone unturned: all the details are complete. You’re finally ready to shoot and the girl just won’t emote. You’re playing her iPod, everyone is happy to be there and in a creative mood, food has been offered and eaten. And the girl just won’t give it up! What do you do? You can watch the video from the post on my blog: http://www.fashionphotographyblog.com/2 … -the-shot/ I have a dear friend in the industry who has been doing this as long as I have and he and I have completely opposite viewpoints on this. I won’t say he’s famous for being a “screamer” but he’s one of these photographers that will definitely get angry with the model if she isn’t emoting or giving him what he needs to get the shot. He’s been known to make the models cry or have them walk off set to call their agents. His take is that he’s put all this work in to the shoot to create exactly what he wants and if the model isn’t emoting, the shoot is a waste. I agree with that….it is a waste if the girl just stands there or if the girl is giving you those Model 101 poses. It is totally frustrating and debilitating. My viewpoint on the subject is this: If she ain’t got it, she ain’t gonna’ get it. At least not in the 6 hour time frame I need her to be “on”. And maybe because I’m a woman and I’m against berating other women, I just can’t find it in me to be a jerk and start yelling at the model. I feel like the reason why she really can’t emote is because she’s shy or insecure in the first place and screaming at her isn’t going to do anything positive for her already low self esteem. To make the shoot more interesting, I’ll end up moving around the girl myself and shooting at angles that add interest and don’t necessarily need her to emote that strongly. Or, if I have to, I will take her aside and make sure she feels comfortable because maybe someone along the way in production (like the make up artist or the hair stylist) did or said something that upset her so I’ll clear that up so hopefully we can move past it. But when all possible reasons why the girl isn’t emoting have been checked off and she still won’t move, I basically walk away with a shoot that wasn’t all I was expecting. And sometimes I’ll admit, the shoot is a wash. At least in my opinion. More often than not, if it’s a job, I don’t have the final say on the model choice. And while I can tell the client what’s happening, that the girl isn’t moving or emoting, at the end of the day, the client doesn’t really want to hear it they just want results. I try to keep the set lively and happy and positive and pull out what I can from the girl. I’m fairly good at it at this point. But I don’t scream and yell and reduce the model to tears. But I know other photographers that do. While I thought I was taking the higher ground by not being a “screamer”, you can see by the short video from our Fashion Photography Exposed DVD when I interview modeling agent James Charles from Photogenics that he doesn’t necessarily agree with me. He thinks that the girls need to be trained and taught that when they are on set with a photographer they need to give that photographer what they’re looking for. So by all means, you gotta’ do what you need to do, to get the shot. I know that not all of you are working with professional models yet and that the new faces or girls from sites like Model Mayhem can be extra challenging because they too are starting out and may not “know” what emoting even is or how to do it. So here are some “tricks” you can try to get the new girls to open up and start emoting for you: Music One is to ask them if they want to hear a particular kind of music. Ask them if they brought their own iPod or iPhone with their iTunes on it so they can hear the kind of music they like listening to. Music is a great motivator to get people “moving” and happy. It’s a mood elevator. And I use it often to get everyone to loosen up and start enjoying themselves. After all, this job is really supposed to be fun, right? Work with People who are Easy Going Another thing I try to do, and I’m not always in a position to do it, but I try to hire make up, hair and stylists that are relatively easy going and fun to work with. A Diva hair stylist can intimidate a new model like you wouldn’t believe. That won’t help your cause, so try to work with non-Diva-esque people. Humour Another trick is humour. Everybody loves to laugh. So try to get the model to laugh. That will help loosen her up. And lastly, SHOW her what you want. Get up there on the cyc or on the seamless and show her where to put her legs or what expression you’d like her to give. If you feel awkward showing her yourself, gather your mood board or have some pictures on hand so you can show her, “This is what I’m looking for, smile (or frown or wink or snarl) like this girl”. Having a reference point will often set them on the right path. I thought it would be interesting to get your feedback. What do you guys think? Are there any “screamers’ out there that get good results from that? Or do you take the more passive role like myself? What are your thoughts. Let’s keep this age old debate going!! I want to hear from you guys now, how you handle a model who isn’t emoting or moving and let us know some tricks you’ve used in the past that might help other readers get through this dilemma.
Wed Jan 4 14:38 2012
The death of TFP? in General Industry
I say, "more power to her". She may want $40 an hour, but that doesn't mean she'll get it. You don't get to set the model's rates, instead the local marketplace gets to set her rates. If she gets that $40 an hour from others, then her rate is justified. If no one pays her that $40 an hour, then she'll drop her rates, possibly down to "TFP". So, if you don't want to pay her, don't. Modeling (and photography) is a competitive business -- stick to the models you can afford. If you can't find a decent enough model to pose for you on a TFP basis, you'll have to consider paying them. Either way, all is right in the world. Also, I believe that we all could stand to learn more about negotiations. Here's your first lesson: The party that names a price first is at a huge disadvantage. She's not going to name her best price first thing -- perhaps she's just leaving herself some wiggle room. Make a counteroffer. What's the worst that could happen? Well, first off, everyone wants to get paid, and if no one asks, no one will get paid. Again, you can only set your own limits -- there's nothing wrong with anyone asking to get paid. I agree -- if you are a relatively inexperienced photographer, sometimes you best option is to work with more experienced models, and yes, that often means paying them. There is no shame in that. Regarding not knowing whether a model is worth it -- well, find out before hand whether she is. What I mean is that you should check references. Get to know your local photographic community. Ask them for references. Share information with them. Share other resources & locations. Do some group projects. Have a potluck get together. After they get to know you & you get to know them, it should be easy to check references. Everything is negotiable. I enjoy paying models, especially traveling models. I can afford it because the donations I accept from my web site covers my photographic expenses, including the modeling fees. So, I pay models, and if they want to use any of the images I post on my web site, that's fine to me. You may have a different opinion, but you can strike your own deals. Where do they get the pictures? Maybe they do TFP with the better photographers and they charge the less experienced models? That's kinda like an unsolicited critique. It's none of your business what you think about the images in a model's portfolio. Your job is to decide whether you want to work with them or not. If you do want to work with them, negotiate an agreement. If you can't reach an agreement, move on. But I repeat, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a model asking to get paid, and there is nothing wrong with you making a TFP counteroffer. Just be polite & respectful, and if the negotiations fail, part ways without pathos. With all due respect -- that's not any of your business. Look -- if you want to become a better, more experienced photographer, you are going to have to take risks, both business & aesthetic risks. If you can't afford to pay models, again, there's no shame in that -- find other ways to compensate models. But publicly complaining about models asking to get paid -- that's not a good start.
Sat Dec 31 13:41 2011 in reply to astrographic
The death of TFP? in General Industry
Hi This has probably been discussed before, and ive mentioned on other forums. Years ago it was fairly common for new/amateur models to offer tfp in order to get experience and build up their portfolios. This was great for both photographer and model as both benefitted from the experience. Now though it seems that every model, whether on their first or second shoot or only having been modelling a few months, wants to charge £40 an hour or so to do a shoot. Im all for the good models making a living out of modelling and in their cases its totally valid to charge what the market allows. The problem is that a lot of the models wanting to charge from the beginning is that photographers have no way of building up their experience unless they pay up front, and have no idea if the model is any good or capable of carrying off the shoot. Its such a risk to have to pay over £100 every time you want to arrange a shoot with a model, add in studio fees and expenses and its a very expensive gamble. How are these models getting portfolio pictures? If they are charging then i assume the photographers are not giving them the pictures? or are they? If they are then its a double problem in that the model gets paid twice almost. This isnt to say i wont pay for models, in fact i have a few booked that im happy to pay for, but they have good portfolios and references or have an image that im looking specifically for. I am however disappointed in the amount of models whose portfolios i have looked and thought "you know all they need is a few good pictures instead of those badly shot camera style things they have uploaded", contacted them to offer a shoot, only to get a reponse back along the lines of "i dont do tfp, my rates are listed on the site". Are they getting any work? I guess that maybe the idea is that by charging they appear more professional, or scare away the "guy with camera" brigade, but in honesty the guy with camera types are the ones who probably dont mind paying for models with poor portfolios as they might think this means they get a lot more "freedom" with the model, seeing as they are paying. Maybe im just being grumpy........ but theres no way i can afford to take risks on models who have 4 badly shot pictures on their portfolio (despite thinking that with decent shots they might look really good). Whats the general opinion?
Sat Dec 31 11:57 2011
True head shot in General Industry
star, you keep going on about actors and the link i provided was for models. quit referring to actors in this argument and quit trying to "act" as knowing what is required for "models" in markets/genres you obviously know nothing about. you should give some realization that models do in fact need headshots and they are not just exclusive for actors. to think otherwise shows more about your lack of knowledge than mine. where a headshot for a model is most needed (commercial lifestyle) you will notice the most effective are those following the requirements i stated. you also seem to be hung up on the "smile" requirement. here is where that becomes important, it's a pleasing introduction. most often when a new model is accepted they don't have a portfolio and there's nothing to present/leave behind to the client. the first step is usually, "get him/her a headshot so we can have the client add it to their agency book until we can start building a book/comp." the reason for that works two-fold. one, it keeps the agency line of communication open to clients. the introduction of a new model provides a reason to stay front and center with the client rather than being out of sight - out of mind. it's how agencies hustle for business. two, it begins the process for the new model to start building comfort/confidence at the client level and they don't walk into the introduction go-see empty handed. for the more established model working commercial lifestyle more often than not you'll see how the rules i stated have been applied to the headshot on their comp. what you fail to realize is modeling is local, agencies serve local clients. most of those local clients are conservative in nature and their messaging follows that form. with that, sure there may be instances where a more brooding fashion shot might be most applicable when directed to local boutiques, etc., but the vast majority of local work is commercial lifestyle. that's the bread and butter of agency billings, that's what the agencies in mid-major markets are hustling. that is the essence in the model headshot. are they required for other genres? not really, hence why in terms of a "model' headshot where they become most important they should be done correctly per how they will be presented for gaining assignments. that's no different than any other genre presentation, as in getting the imaging done right. is there a difference in an actor headshot and model headshot? absolutely. and considering that difference was the basis for certain requirements for models who might choose to work in a genre where a headshot can be used for competing via freelance vs the agencies. this is also an across the board discussion applicable to more than just major markets (where models are more established and client standards are more wide and varied). what is applicable in the major market backyard does not mean it is applicable in mid-majors. with that said however, one would be hard-pressed to find an established commercial model in any market not presenting what i stated.
Wed Dec 28 07:59 2011 in reply to Star
Model mayhem as seen on youtube. :P in Photography Talk
Yeah, it does seem a bit awkward given he did say it was for a model portfolio. However, it is not uncommon (like almost every time) for me to get a model to sign a release even for a (model) paid test. The release serves two purposes, I might shoot something I would like to use in my own portfolio. As a professional who uses his portfolio for marketing purposes, I don't like to use unreleased photos. I go over this with the model in advance (explaining why I would like a release), and that I don't (and never have) use paid test photos for commercial purposes (other than personal promotion). I also want the model to give me permission to retouch the images, the release covers that. The second reason for the release is that it serves as my license to the model so that he/she can use the photos! (A photographer's license for use was something not covered in the video). The standard language usually says that the model as consideration for signing the release is allowed to use any of the photos for their own promotion, but may not sell the pictures for commercial use. Obviously I want the model to use the heck out of the pictures to promote his/her career, but I don't want to see them in an advertisement (I charge a lot more for advertising and catalog than I do for a model test). Any release should have a consideration clause which states what of value the model is receiving for signing the release. Use of the photos for their own promotion is considered valuable consideration. So there you go, while it might seem odd to have a release signed by a model who is paying for a test, I have not had a model say they objected to me using images for my own portfolio (a model could object, I suppose). And the consideration arrangement in the release does give the model the license he/she needs to use my images in their own portfolio/composite/website, etc. John -- John Fisher 900 West Avenue, Suite 633 Miami Beach, Florida 33139 305 534-9322 http://www.johnfisher.com
Mon Dec 26 13:12 2011 in reply to S W I N S K E Y
Needing some paid photoshoots in Newbie Forum
Although there are always exceptions to the rule, I personally don't know of any models who have joined MM with no experience, a limited/beginner portfolio, and non-agency-standard measurements who then immediately booked paid work. I apologize if that sounds harsh. . . I'm not trying to be, we all started with no experience and beginner portfolios, I'm just trying to be realistic. Even if you get a few paid jobs as a beginner, they will likely be from hobby photographers and they will be occasional. When I was just starting out, I did get a few paid gigs in my area, but as others have mentioned, they will come from having something unique to offer. The paid work I got at the beginning was generally for bodyscape/figure study work. I am taller and thinner than most models in my area, so I got lucky in that I happen to have a figure that is rare to find, at least in my tiny city. Even with having a figure that was in demand, there's no way I could have paid my bills off of the money I made. Making ends meet by modeling is difficult for girls who have years worth of experience and networking, let alone someone without that. The tricky thing about modeling is that it's not something you can really practice, learn, or otherwise get experience in until you're out there on set. You can't go to college and major in modeling or get a modeling internship. For the most part, the models you'll see here are self-taught. What that means is that it will take you (and everyone else) a while to really finesse your skills. You wouldn't decide to become a writer overnight and then expect to write a New York Times best-selling novel within the next month. You wouldn't decide to become a rock start and then quit your day job and show up looking for a record deal with no musical training. It's the same for modeling, except tougher because there's no official training for models. For most of the models here, our "training" was trade shoot after trade shoot after trade shoot, until the pictures started to look better and better and better. If you're serious about modeling, I'd recommend hiring a great photographer, makeup artist, and wardrobe stylist in your area. This is probably not what you want to hear, because it involves spending money rather than making it. However, what you need before you can make money is a killer portfolio. The quality of your pictures is what gets you hired. If you invest a little time and money into getting a good start, it will pay off for you in the end because people will look at your work, be impressed by it, and then ask for you to work for them. You want only the very best to represent yourself. . . get some killer shots in genre which you'd like to work, then delete anything unprofessional or less flattering from your portfolio. I'm not saying that modeling requires you to spend money. I have never paid a photographer to help me build my portfolio (although now that I've been modeling long enough to get a decent portfolio started, I'm considering it to really bring me to the next level and fill in the gaps where my port is lacking). That said, I have a full time Mon-Fri job and am not relying upon modeling as my main income. Sorry to write you a whole novel, I hope some of it was food for thought! Good luck.
Tue Dec 20 14:16 2011 in reply to Ashley Duncan
Shooting with TFP models vs. Paid models in Photography Talk
- Page views in general should not be a concern. It doesn't matter if Models get more page views, unless the Model attracts an audience that I want to reach, the vast number of people who see their portfolio is irrelevant to me. The value is relative to my business needs which is my case is specific and very targeted. If the wrong eyeballs are seeing my work, it could be bad for business, especially if I'm targeting and servicing different market segments. - It's not promotion unless the Model PROMOTES the image. Simply giving away the image does not insure this and if there is no assurance that there will be a benefit for giving the Model the image why do it? But I can control where I promote it and insure that the audience that I'm targeting sees my work. I don't need a large number of the wrong people seeing my work, I need more of the right people to actively promote me. That require strategic and measured placement, not a shotgun scattered pellets approach. Generally speaking, a hired Model is less likely want to promote you than a Model that trade or pays you because they have less incentive to promote images than a Model that's traded for them or paid for them. There is no investment in time or money for the hired Model that they need to see a return on. Also, if there are other business considerations, providing images can hurt your business. If you are shooting on spec or for stock or for publication, sharing image from a shoot that you paid a Model is not a practical consideration until those consideration have been addressed or resolved. Then there is the unintended consequences of being "promoted" by a Model that you've hired that has "Paid Assignments Only" in her profile. Occasionally, I still get hit up by Models that think I should be willing to pay them because they assume that my images in a Model's portfolio that has "Paid Assignments Only" in their profile means that I should be willing to pay them, totally ignorant that the images from the shoot likely was a trade shoot. Discretion about compensation says a lot. I will admit that "Paid Assignments Only" in a Model' s profile factors into whether or not I hire a Model because have their images in MY portfolio may encourage the wrong type of Model to contact me and I will have to spend time dealing with them. - If those Photographers feel it's in their interest to provide you images after they've paid you and feel that getting in your portfolio will give them some benefit, I'm not going to knock them. They see a value in pursuing that strategy and if it works for them it works for them. I know the value of my images. I know it's good work and that the Models that value it generally will want to trade or pay me to shoot them.
Tue Dec 20 02:51 2011 in reply to Damianne
[img]http://www.vipmodelevents.com/imgs/flyer.jpg[/img] ABOUT VIP | REGISTER | FACEBOOK | TWITTER | MEETUP Let's kick off 2012 in Style MM! Let's do that by spending time shooting up to 20 nude / lingerie models in an upscale tequila lounge/bar in the art district of Pomona, CA. I had to call in some favors to secure this location so let's take advantage of it. The interior of this 2 level night club is gorgeous and will allow for some great image creation. We will have exclusive use of it for the day. Sponsor Support! - All models will receive a free gift bag courtesy of Erotique Mode Lingerie! - Professional Hair and Makeup provided by Obsession Makeup Academy! - Photography lighting provided by Linco | Britek! Event Details - Theme: Models in the VIP (Nude Models / Implied Models / Lingerie Models) - When: Saturday Jan 21st, 2012 from 10:30am to 6pm - Where: Upscale Lounge/Club in Pomona, CA (address will be provided to attendees) - # of Models: Up to 20 - Food and drinks will be provided - Group Shoot: 11am to 1:45pm - Private 1:1's: 2:00pm to 5:30pm 1-on-1 Schedule 1) 2:00-2:30 pm 2) 2:45-3:15 pm 3) 3:30-4:00 pm 4) 4:15-4:45 pm 5) 5:00-5:30 pm Photographer Info - Early Registration Cost: $100 (will increase to $125 after Jan 12th) - Register Here: http://www.vipmodelevents.com/register/ - Refund Policy: No refunds unless event is canceled - Book your own 1:1's with the model directly - Model Release agreements will be provided - No assistants unless they want to pay $100 Model Info - Free admission - Must participate in group shoot in order to sell 1:1's - Nude models must pose at least topless during the group portion of the event - You may sell model releases for $20 - Set your rates for 1:1 private shoots & release agreements with photographer - MUAs will be on site for hair and makeup - Model Release agreements will be provided - No escorts or bag boys unless they want to pay $100 Location Features - 2 Level Upscale Nightclub with 25ft ceilings - Linco | Britek lighting will be provided - See photos below Models or Photogs, please send me a private message if you have questions or concerns. Thx! Video Clips from Previous Events [img]http://www.vipmodelevents.com/imgs/video_screen_shot.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.vipmodelevents.com/imgs/video_screen_shot_dec_3.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.vipmodelevents.com/imgs/video_screen_shot_oct_22.jpg[/img] Location Photos [img]http://vipmodelevents.com/imgs/club/1vive.jpg[/img] [img]http://vipmodelevents.com/imgs/club/2vive.jpg[/img] [img]http://vipmodelevents.com/imgs/club/3vive.jpg[/img] [img]http://vipmodelevents.com/imgs/club/4vive.jpg[/img] [img]http://vipmodelevents.com/imgs/club/5vive.jpg[/img] [img]http://vipmodelevents.com/imgs/club/6vive.jpg[/img] [img]http://vipmodelevents.com/imgs/club/7vive.jpg[/img] [img]http://vipmodelevents.com/imgs/club/8vive.jpg[/img] [img]http://vipmodelevents.com/imgs/club/9vive.jpg[/img] [img]http://vipmodelevents.com/imgs/club/10vive.jpg[/img] [img]http://vipmodelevents.com/imgs/club/12vive.jpg[/img] ABOUT VIP | REGISTER | FACEBOOK | TWITTER | MEETUP
Fri Dec 16 14:57 2011
Model Managers? in General Industry
Really? I would think that all underage would-be models would have a "manager", probably a parent. Y'see -- if you are not a model & you are not a manager, what do you care? The OP is a photographer who is uncomfortable with a model having a manager. The model is happy (I presume); the manager is happy -- their arrangement is none of your business. It's okay to choose not to work with a model, but it's not okay to imply that no model should ever have a manager. I also get the sense that the OP wasn't talking about high-end, experienced, professional models -- I got the impression that we was talking about less experienced models (probably TF* models). Here's a snippet from the OP: Doesn't sound like it's a choice between a "manager" and an agency -- it sounds like a parent looking out for a wannabe model.The OP also made clear that one model was of age yet had her mother try to set up their shoot and act as a manager. Some shooters may be comfortable with that. I would not be and it seems the OP wasn't either. I would rather deal directly with the model. No go betweens to muck things up and in the past its been that for me managers got details wrong and ruined shoots. Last week a nude model told me how a former manager screwed up a shoot for her. I don't shoot minors but if I did would expect to deal with parents. This is in part why, I decline work with under 18 year old models. I also have found every model manager I've ever run into to be either nearly a pimp or a idiot or both.
Tue Dec 13 16:52 2011 in reply to Looknsee Photography
The "Method Acting" Approach in General Industry
I figured I would post this here to see what other people think. Its how I have been doing business/shooting for nearly a decade and it has always proven to be EXTREMELY effective in delivering GREAT shots. However not all models understand it, some take offense to it, etc. When I say method acting what I mean is that nothing I shoot is ever "faked". When I have done cutting/blood photos the model was actually into cutting and actually cut herself. However i think the best example is when I did my series of "vulnerable sexuality" photos for my first book. The photos were meant to capture a woman at their most vulnerable point of sexuality (post assault/rape) if you will. No I didn't actually rape the model. What happened was the model drank a bottle of wine before she came over. Then before the shoot took place I threw her around the basement, into walls, onto the floor, smacked her around and degraded her verbally until she was literally in tears, broken, etc. and the photos looked so good because of it. I still get comments on them. Of course again this model was fetish/submissive so it was a unique situation. With all models i try to find triggers however. Triggers to their emotions, their sexuality, kink, etc. I want to find the sure fire instant gratification approaches to put them in the mindset needed for the particular photo. One of my models has me pull her hair and whisper things to her every few shots. Another model just likes a lot of flirting and light touching. One model used to dissapear out of the room every 10 photos or so to masturbate and then would return. It all depends on the model. I actually once had a model say she needed to watch me jerk off to get in that mind set to which I quickly replied HELL NO and stopped the shoot. (I do have limits and standards) Its not just me doing these things either. I always have my wife (co-shooter) or another female model on set and often times the spare model does the triggering. I am just curious if anyone else shoots this way. What your experiences have been with it etc, What people's takes are. If any models think this is cool or interesting.
Mon Dec 12 23:10 2011
Ready to Quit MM in Newbie Forum
Sorry, but few people will care if you leave or not. If models aren't answering you, and/or if models are not showing up to your shoots, think of it this way: the universe is telling you that your pitch needs improvement. It's a lesson all of us have to learn. I suggest that you look at it from the model's point of view: why would a model want to work with you? Are the models happy or excited by your proposed project and/or your proposed compensation? Are you scaring off the models, making them feel uncomfortable? Everyone around here has "flake" (i.e. no-show) stories. It's fairly simple -- there are reliable and unreliable models everywhere you look (both here on MM and in the outside world) -- choose to work with the reliable ones. How can you tell if a model is reliable? The easiest thing to do is to check references... ... Ask the photographers & models who are local to you -- they might know you and might be willing to open up about the model, ... Ask the photographers & models who are local to your candidate model, in particular, ask the prominent folk local to the candidate, ... Ask the people credited in her portfolio. After a while, you might be able to get a sense of the model's reliability based on the variety & qualities in her portfolio. Also, if you want to be a better photographer, you might wish to consider working with more experienced & talented models, and yes, that sometimes means paying them. If, on the other hand, you wish to work with less experienced & less talented models who are willing to consider working for you for no money, then you are more likely to come across the unreliable models. Finally, just putting up a profile or hanging out a shingle is not enough to be successful in business. Remember, photography is a very competitive business -- you've got to have better appeal than your competition. That's true here on MM and it will be true wherever you land. If you want to be successful, you have to go out proactively & get it; it won't come knocking on your door. Finally, a little tough love: giving up pretty much guarantees failure. Whatever you decide, good luck.
Mon Dec 12 11:47 2011 in reply to 1st Stop Photo
Affiliate links not allowed in Site Related Forum
Wed Nov 30 18:38 2011 in reply to John Jebbia
Where do they come from... in General Industry
After weeks, months, truthfully years of overwhelming frustration I have to simply ask where do some of these models come from. I have been on model mayhem since forever and truthfully I have had some great luck finding models on this site, however I have also dealt with people who's ignorance, attitude, ego, and more simply astonish me! Models who don't shoot nude - The mainstream modeling industry in which models can make a living doing runway work, catalog work, etc. is about as easy to break into as winning the lottery. Furthermore if you are from ANYWHERE other than New York, LA, Chicago, or Paris your chances are even slimmer. Most models should be ecstatic for ANY casting and whereas I completely understand models not wanting to do PORN/ADULT work there is a HUGE difference between shooting nude and porn, hell there is even a different between erotic/fetish work and porn. Who feeds the close-minded uptight delusions of these models. Escorts - at what point did grown adults start needing to have babysitters? If you truly want to be professional about this and find ongoing work don't pollute my shooting space with some random escort who does nothing but get in the way and serve as a distraction. If you don't feel comfortable shooting with someone then don't shoot with them but don't bring along an escort that will just affect the quality of the images. Especially don't bring a boyfriend or significant other. I am sorry but no matter how professional and awesomely supportive you think your "hubby" is jealousy is something we all must contend with and I will not deal with your personal relationship drama or your boyfriends lack of self confidence. If you need a babysitter then go back to grade school and stop wasting our time, if your boyfriend won't support your goals of being a model without demanding to come along or putting limits on what you shoot dump the tool because he obviously doesn't care about you. Crazy Rates/Won't Shoot Profit Share - I do think models reserve the right to eventually stop accepting TFP/CD shoots however just because you've shot three times doesn't mean you get to command hundreds of dollars an hour, be realistic. Furthermore profit share is NOT tfp especially not when it comes to nationally published books, magazines, etc. If the guy is some amateur who may pay you IF he sells the work that's different but if the photographer is shooting for something being nationally published then take the deal! Models need to learn there is more to this industry then just being moderately attractive and showing up. Even for my nationally published book series I have to: spend hundreds of hours editing photos pay my graphic designer to do the layout for the books the electricity to power all the equipment the marketing of the book, promotions, appearances, etc. plus the ACTUAL shooting, recruiting, etc. AFTER ALL THAT I still get paid when the book sells. Models should accept being paid the same way. We as photographers pay on the back end because it means you will actually put forth the extra effort EVERY MODEL should for the work to succeed. You should have to EARN your pay the same way we do with putting in at least a quarter of the amount of work we do! So I ask again WHERE do these models come from? Please for the love of god tell me I am not the only person dealing with this level of ignorance and attitude!! Oh and on a side note. If a photographer pays you 250 dollars an hour and the photos are of crappy quality and never go anywhere but free internet sites or other low-quality or AMATEUR sites then you aren't a model. You have officially become an escort for the deluded fantasies of a GWC.
Tue Nov 22 08:44 2011
how much could i charge per hour? in Model Colloquy
You are right, I shouldn't have put the word "nude" in there. I should have simply siad that I don't know of agencies that would provide a fashion model for $50hr. I will clairify that though. There are a couple of agencies here that might send me models for that price but they won't be as good as many of the ones that I have booked here. I hire as many, or more models than anyone on this site. I book 750 every single year, perhaps more than that. I book agency models as well. Unless I go to Ford, or one of the other premier agencies, (which I do for certain projects), the models are no better, and I am not sure they are any more reliable. I booked an agency model a couple of months ago to pose for a class we were teaching. It was an important class and I needed 100% reliability. The model failed to show up, didn't call and didn't give me any warning. Her booker was sick and there was no backup for her either. So much for agency reliability. My view is that you take every net model and every agency model as an individual. I have no problem paying net models if they are good and if they are reliable. I work with a lot of net models who are every bit as good, or better than agency models. I work with agency models, who are at best, marginal.Might be different markets. NYC has some really fantastic agencies, and I've never had an issue -- I did have a model get sick once, she showed up violently ill, vomited in the trash-can and waited while we called her agency and arranged for suitable backup, she even directed me to models on their board that had a similar look. The replacement arrived 30 minutes later. Might be different markets, I can't say, I've never had any experience with agencies over there.
Thu Nov 3 07:23 2011 in reply to GPS Studio Services
Who else doesn't bother with model releases? in General Industry
You have so much to learn! Here are a few tips from an old retired pro photographer who has pretty much seen it all. "Umm I can self publish a book anytime I own registered copyright to the shot I can use it. If the laws changed tomorrow its not going to be applies to actions prior to that date of law being signed." You have the photos copyright protected, but you still copyright the book itself. That's because it is a new creation. That's under today's laws. "You can have all the releases in the world but if it comes to court case , you would need to have the model in court to corroborate . How would you track down a model you shot 20 years ago who is on another country and married ?" Signed documents stand on their own in court. There is absolutely no need for confirmation from the model. Her signing the release is her confirmation. Besides, no one other than the model would have standing to sue you regarding a published photo. An exception could be photos of a child, but then the parents signed the release, so what I said still stands.. "A release helps protect the models / publishers interests NOT the photographer." What on earth in a standard release protects a model? I suspect you are confusing releases with useage licenses. Two separate documents hich should never be combined. Other than the self written releases sometimes shown on the internet, which are likely to be worthless in a court, there is nothing in a rstandard release to protect a model in any way. In its most basic form, a signed release is simply the model's writen consent for the photographer to show and othrwise use the images. "Even so publishing on the Internet is still not clear in the US." In what way is it not clear? Look up the word publish and see if you can find any exceptions for the internet. Publishing is publishing. "Publishers have to sweat because there is no argument of commercial use for them." Publishers don't have to sweat didley squat. Have you had any books commercially published, I have. Many years ago I had a photography text book commercially published. I had to sign a statement for the publisher, as part ofthe publishing contract, to the effect that I relieved them of any and all liability concerning the phots included, "including right to privacy law suits". "I give any model who shoots with me joint copyright as we both contributed equally to the art work. Thats what a model gets and deserves as far as I am concerned." That's the sad thing. I doubt very much that you in fact give the model joint copyright. The US Copyright Office will accept joint copyright, but it has to be in writting and submitted to the Copyright Office. A verbal statement will not be accepted. Even if successful, are you aware that 15 years down the road if the photo editor of a major magazine called you and wanted to publish one of your photos,you would have to track down the model to get her written signature before allowing the sale? Way back when I was just starting out and learning the business, I once failed to get a release. A major magazine did in fact contact me wanting use to a photo. I explained to the photo editor that I needed to contact the model to get her consent. It took me about 45 minutes to do just that. When I called back, I learned from an assistant to the editor that he had gone with a different photo due to the "complications" I presented. "Yeah I know a bunch of you will get your panties in a twist about this, however take the models out of your shots what do you have?" A beautifu scenic shot, maybe close ups of flowers or any of the other subjects I photographed for 30 years, before going commercial. " I don't photoshop either so every image is true representation." Maybe you should consider using P'shop.There is a reason every professional photographer and every publication in existance uses P"shop. "Maybe a model release can be a problem to as you have tied your hands when you modify an image as they could come back and say that the shot is not how they ( model) intended it to be and YOU the photographer has breached the agreement." Have you ever actually read a professional release? A goodly percentage of the release covers just that point. Some more positive advice. If you are going to give specific advice on a forum, try to know a bit aboput what you are talking about.
Sat Oct 29 17:17 2011 in reply to joephotonyc
How do you handle 'escorts' in a home studio? in Photography Talk
If you want to shoot with a particular model and they are firm about bringing an escort, try these techniques: 1. go to the next model 2. give the model references to check--which the model should be doing anyway 3. go to the next model 4. do a location shoot with that model and bring a friend of your own 5. go to the next model 6. offer to let the escort come into the studio for 15 min, then leave and come back to get the model when the shoot is finished. 7. offer to let the escort come in for a few minutes and the model to call the escort after the first set you shoot. hopefully the model knows how to use a 'safety word' that tells the escort if she is in trouble. That technique is used in a lot of 'stranger meet' situations--example--dating online and meeting a date for the first time. 8. go to the next model. 9. I send all models a 'info sheet'-pre written and stored in my documents--I paste and copy to the model in a msg. the sheet includes several comments about the escort 'working' during the whole shoot,being 18 with a photo ID which will be copied, staying in the studio, being a gofer for everything, if they disrupt the shoot the session is cancelled, etc. 10. go to the next model. 11. and GO TO THE NEXT MODEL. hope one or more of these 'tactics' help.
Thu Oct 20 23:48 2011 in reply to Bizou Photography
This is really a very interesting thread. I have read some of the responses several times and the links are helpful. My response just by reading the OP's statement/question is that obviously the model is a newbie or needing help to build her portfolio. That is why she contacted the OP. I just do not see a very experienced model wanting to shoot with any photographer not among the top photographers here on MM tf to help build thier portfolio. The top/very experienced/elite models here can demand "paid" shoots even from the best of the best photographers. Therefore I think that in keeping with the newbie or model wanting to improve her work needing help is where this thread is meant to go. While I do not say that I am among the best I do know that first I would have done some homework had she contacted me. I would have looked at what she had in her port to give me some idea of what she can do. Before I even work with her I get an idea of her comfort level of what kind of pics she is interested in too. When she arrives I first work on getting her comfortable with me so we talk a bit. I may even shoot a few frames just to get her relaxed and into the shoot. Again saying that this is a newbie or model needing help to improve her port. I know from experience that it may take longer to shoot this model so I set aside the time. After all I agreed to shoot with her knowing that more than likely she will need direction with poses, expressions, following my directions. Shooting tf with a model like this is what I already expect. One of the things that I like to do with newbies or models that I think need help is to select a small number of looks and poses from models portfolios here. I explain that the pose, looks, expressions are a guideline and what I am looking for is for her to be able to give me something close to that but wanting to have her create her own pose/image that is hers and not try to exactly duplicate what I show her. Many times the end results from the shoot I find that the best work I get from the model is none of the poses that we started with but instead that she found herself experimenting and creating poses and looks that worked best for her, that we worked together as a team to make it happen. For me that is what it is all about, the model giving me her best look. And I like to take breaks to go over what we are getting, giving her an idea of what she looks like, maybe even discussing how we could do a look over to get it better. This is the part that I love because this is many times when I get my best work from newbie models that have little to no experience. Other photographers can say all they want about who is to blame, about the model should have the experience or that they would have ended the shoot and looked for another model but for me I look at it as I am the one who made the committment to the model to shoot her tf and I am going to do my best to give her pics that are more than what she would have been happy with. I want her to understand what is a good pic. As a photographer myself and still working on improving my own work I want the lighting and colors to be as close to perfect as possible. I want the setting to be right and I look at each image so that if something that does not belong in the picture is removed and we shoot it again. I could fix it in photoshop but why not fix it before I take the pic.
Wed Oct 19 10:08 2011 in reply to MK Images Hawaii
Umm.. that's not what we're talking about as far as I can see? We're talking about a model TFP session and she couldn't model: "Or maybe it's me not knowing how to photograph? I recently had a model ask for a TF session and I was happy to oblige. The first expression was a blank look that resembled minor digust. I snapped the photo and she tilted her head half an inch and kept the look. I asked for a smile, she smiles and raises her eyebrows high and widens her eyes like a crazy person. This went on for the entire session. Disgust peppered with crazy eyes. She kept her hands at her sides and when I asked for a particular hand placement it was always awkward with fingers crooked like she was casting a curse. If I had asked for the session I would have stopped and found another model but this was HER session. Now I have 800 photos to choose from and am struggling to find 10 worth sending. I'd really like to give quality work even to those that don't know how to model. Have any of you experienced this? How did you pull the emotions out of the model? What do you suggest I do if I am presented with this in the future?" What you're suggesting is that this is a portrait session. If it's a portrait or paid test session and the photographer is being paid, the rules are very different. If it's a TFP session and the model and photographer are bringing relevant skills to the session, the requirement is still on the model to be able to .... model. I direct, but the model models. That's the way it works. Don't get me wrong. I know how to get the most from people and I do that every week at weddings, and I've very very good at it, and I also get the most from my models too. However if the most I can get from a "model" is the level of a random stranger on the street, then the photographer doesn't have the responsibility to turn that person into a professional model. Because it's not possible. It'd be like me turning up to a TFP session and saying to the model "Umm.. how do I use this black thing in my hand.. I think they call it a camera". It's unprofessional and unreasonable.
Wed Oct 19 02:05 2011 in reply to Mosttry
Why models should get paid more models thoughts? in Model Colloquy
There are SO MANY VARIABLES for a given model and why they have any given rate. 1) Is the model full time or part time? 2) Is the model doing this for fun, or is it a job? 3) Does the model have looks that are always in demand? 4) What market is the model trying to get into and what is the competition like within? 5) What genres/concepts is the model willing to do? Here is my situation with some models I have worked with... Model A has a full time job and models sometimes just because it's fun... so any amount above ZERO is great for this model... she lives in a market where what she does for fun really isn't in demand but she likes to do it anyway and she is willing to do most concepts and or genres... that model would be happy at $100 day rate. Model B models full time.. is in constant demand and lives in a market where she is always on call... pretty much has to turn down gigs just to stay sane... though she does enjoy modeling, it is mostly a job and has to choose her gigs wisely to earn the most money possible for bills and such. This model would likely turn down even a $300 day rate. So, yeah, rates vary, by looks and place and supply and demand.
Sun Oct 16 21:34 2011 in reply to Jacob Michael Photo
Can't agree with that at all. It's not the photographers job to model - it's the models. Next it'll be the photographers job to tell the MUA how to apply makeup and the stylist which clothes to put on the model. Yes, you need to direct and give reference and so on, but you can't direct someone who can't do the job. It doesn't work. "The model is just that, a model." - and this is treating someone as if they are a mannequin and a first class ticket to a poor model / photographer relationship, usually with dead eyes and bored looking models. These are models NOT members of the public. What you suggest is fine for a member of the public (and I have all sorts of tricks for getting what I want from them) but models, fundamentally, should be able to model. Think of it this way: if the photographer is like a director, is it the directors fault if the actor can't act? No. It isn't. Can they get the best from someone who can act? Yes. A good photographer can get the most out of a model, but they can't make someone who can't model ... model. (and yes I've done my fair share of coaching models - but only ones who I think have some talent in the first place).
Sun Oct 16 15:49 2011 in reply to -Koa-
Setting a model straight in General Industry
I consider myself a pretty flexible guy. I have my rules when it comes to TF shoots. I also have my muses. My rules for my muses are far more relaxed than they are for models I might shoot once. I recently found myself in an uncomfortable predicament with an inexperienced model with whom I had never worked -- and will never work with again, believe me. Her English was not good, so that contributed to the apparent misunderstanding over images, who chooses what, and what she gets. She basically expected me to give her everything. I thought it best afterward that I spell things out for her. I'm interested to know from experienced fotogs and models if you think this is a fair policy. Keep in mind that I respect my models and value what dedicated, serious models bring to the table and that this model is far from professional, that she was told beforehand the way I work, and that my policies are somewhat more flexible with regular models and muses whom I work with on a regular or semi-regular basis. Here's what I told her: I feel compelled to explain a few things to you about how these shoots work. You're a relatively new model. I don't know who you've been working with or what their policies have been, but I will outline for you the policies under which I have worked in this genre for five years now. They are similar to the policies most reputable photographers follow. They are not intended to rip you off or steal your image or anything like that. They are the same policies I have applied to some 300 shoots with over 150 models without incident or disagreement, ever. TF shoots are intended for the mutual benefit of photographer and model and whatever support people are involved (ie. MUA, stylist, etc.). Everyone but the model has a financial stake in the shoot. The MUA has invested time and money in training and cosmetics. The photographer has invested thousands and thousands of dollars in equipment and studio rental (in my case, $xx,000 in equipment and $xxx a month in rent). The model just shows up with whatever wardrobe she has in her closet. I don't charge you. Nor does the MUA. Besides the shoot of two to three hours, each image takes me between 30 minutes and 90 minutes or more to edit. I might use one, two, maybe three images at most from a shoot. Sometimes I use none. By law, the photographer owns the copyright to all images taken. This is the law in Canada. The model can use the images for self-promotion -- on her website, on MM, on compcards -- but not for sale or reproduction without the fotog's permission. As the artist and the copyright holder, it is the photographer's prerogative in a TF arrangement to choose the best images, edit them and distribute them. Keep in mind, that in this case I am not being paid for my time, equipment or expertise. Before the shoot, I explained to you that I promise all my models between six and 12 edited, web-ready images. This is the same undertaking I make prior to every shoot with every model. The images are the same size I use myself, and the same size I distribute to everyone involved in every shoot. As stated above, my practice in 99.9% of shoots is the same practice every reputable fotog uses for a non-paying shoot -- as the artist, I choose the images. I assume you agreed to work with me because you liked my portfolio. Surely in seeing that portfolio and the list of models I have worked with, you can recognize that I'm not going to edit or post pictures that make you look bad or compromise you in any way. We shot no nudes, no suggestive images, nothing that would embarrass or negatively depict you. In fact, it's possible I won't be posting anything from today's shoot. All that said, because you're new at this and seem unaware of how things work, and because I don't want you to walk away unhappy, you can have a look at the stuff some afternoon later this week. If there are any images you just have to have, I'd be happy to do them up for you, within reason. I do not, and never have, distributed unedited or high-res images.
Sun Oct 16 07:16 2011
If you are a traveling model, local model, or photographer, you can join our Shoot Teams - Model Workshops !! Basically, the projects can be done on a weekly basis. We form Shoot Teams, then proceed to the projects. This is how it works: Models - Message us on our MM profile to let us know you want to be posted on our website (you can also message us via our website). Then we will post your Model Name on the website. Then photographers can click on your name and fill out a short form to let us know that they want to be on a team do a photo project with you. As soon as several photographers have joined your team, we will notify you, and all of them to set up the Model Workshop (is done on a Model by Model basis). Then we will all meet at the Model Workshop location (we have a location with various backgrounds) to complete the project. The amount each model will be paid depends on how many photographers are on her team. The other consideration is what styles of modeling that a model is ok with. Photographers - simply message us here on MM or on the main website, and request to work with the Shoot Teams, then fill out the forms posted on the main website to select the model you want to work with. After a certain amount of time we will evaluate each team so see how many members each team has, and evaluate how much each photographer is going to pay. The model may have a negotiable rate or a non- negotiable rate. So that will be factored into the decision. The main website is listed below: http://www.wix.com/vvibrantbookings/vibrantstudios A note to Models - we will do our best to assist in any requests you may have as far as transportation or lodging while in the El Paso area.
Tue Oct 11 19:20 2011
WORKSHOP IS FULL! Please message me with emails to be put on the workshop email list. See you all at the next workshop! [img]http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6209/6099548846_db50957b7f_z.jpg[/img] Brittany. Studio. D3/24-70mm f/2.8 1/200th f/4.0 ISO 200. [img]http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6158/6233095749_c87d9167eb_z.jpg[/img] Erica. Location. D3/24-70mm. WORKING WITH MODELING AGENCIES WORKSHOP: STUDIO/OUTDOOR LIGHTING I just finalized the lease on my new 2,100 s.f. studio (the old space was 1,300 s.f.)! There's no better way to debut the space than with the original Working with Modeling Agencies Workshop on November 5-6, 2011! -If you're still building your portfolio and trying to get your foot in the door with agencies (particularly in the competitive LA environment), this workshop is for you. -If you're trying to improve your existing body of work, this workshop is for you. -If you're trying to build a paid-relationship with agencies, this workshop is also for you. -If you don't care about improving your port or working with modeling agencies, then this workshop is not for you. Without further adieu here are the topics we'll cover: -What agencies are looking for in a photographer and a portfolio. -How to approach agencies -Portfolio review -Creating the "agency look" in capture (natural light and strobes) -Creating the "agency look" in post -Photographer/agency/model interaction -Shooting without a studio This will be a two-day event that will feature insight from agency models and will highlight many of the lighting setups and post-processing techniques that I employ for my own work. How does this workshop differ from your first one in January? When I first started shooting with modeling agencies, I didn't have a studio. In fact, most photographers don't own a studio and can't afford to blow money on unpaid tests. Day 2 will really focus on shooting outdoors, without a studio, without strobes, without reflectors even... and still execute the "agencies" look. Highlights from Day 2 include: -Background control -Lighting angles with ambient light -Proper camera settings (and why) -Model/Photographer interaction POST-PROCESSING Shooting is only half the battle. Without good post-processing it's all moot. You can't submit images straight out-of-the-box to agencies (or to anyone these days) without processing. So we will really focus on processing on Day 1. That way, on Day 2 you'll know what you're looking for, how to generate the right lighting for the right effect, and actually practice shooting for those looks. Day 1: -Cover basic agency criteria -Portfolio review -Approach and communication -Basic studio setups (0,1 and 2 light setups) -Shoot and review (we go over the images together on computer immediately after you shoot them) Day 2: -Shooting on location -Controlling the background -Controlling location lighting without strobes/reflectors -Photographer/model interaction General notes: -Since good models are paramount to getting "the shot" we'll provide experienced agency-represented models for the workshop. I'll be updating this page shortly with who we're shooting. -Photographers will be learning/shooting on-the-fly. I'm not a fan of lectures but rather a constant dialogue and sharing of knowledge. That also means, you're not paying to watch me shoot... you'll be doing most of the shooting! -One of the things I enjoy most is keeping the workshop small for more one-on-one attention. I will cap the attendance at 12. -One-on-one time with models is critical to the learning process. At the workshop you'll have plenty of time to work with models. There will be 2-3 photographers per model. Photographers should bring: -Camera/assorted lenses -Lightmeter -Media cards -Something to take notes with -(optional) Pocket Wizards Fee: WORKSHOP IS FULL! REGISTRATION IS CLOSED! $749. [img]http://www.andreahoag.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/paypal-logo.jpg[/img] Location LUCIMA STUDIO 212 Kruse Ave. Monrovia, CA 91016 626-674-2858 Date/Time Saturday and Sunday, November 5-6th, 2011, 9AM-5PM Here are my last 6 workshops! January, February, April, June, July, September Q/A: Will update as inquiries come in! Q: Do you also teach workshops from Calumet? What's the difference? A: Yes, I have a non-exclusive partnership with Calumet Photographic that affords me the opportunity to teach my own workshops. So far all my classes at Calumet have been 1-day events at the Hollywood store with no location shooting. Q: I'll be flying in from [fill in the blank]. Where should I stay that's not too far from your studio? A: There are several 2-3 miles away from the studio. I'm not affiliated with any of the following suggestions a) Doubletree Hotel 924 West Huntington Drive, Monrovia, CA b) Oak Tree Inn 788 West Huntington Drive, Monrovia, CA c) Courtyard 700 W. Huntington Drive, Monrovia, CA Q: Which models are we shooting? A: Will update shortly! Q: How will we get to the location on Day 2? A: The location is a short drive from the studio about 10 minutes away. Q: Will we be shooting nudes? A: Nope. For that I suggest you go to Drew and Karl's workshops. I hear they're great Q: At what point will you know whether you will register enough students to confirm the workshop? A: I never cancel my workshops. If there is even 1 photographer, then the show goes on! Yes, I will teach to 1 photographer if only 1 registers! Q: Do I really need a light meter? A: Yes and no. But basically I'll be showing you how to light with AND without light meters. But for a long-winded version of this answer please see my official stance on light meters.
Mon Oct 10 22:56 2011
Life models for art classes, not photography model in Model Colloquy
A response to Anne and a response to the OP: 1. Anne: it's been my experience that a lot of figure model/life modeling programs are run very inefficiently. I'm near a major university. I've tried contacting the professor who runs the figure drawing program and has ads up for prospective models on the campus--no response. Talked to a faculty member at that school who has tried to contact that art professor about model availability--no response. I've shot 3 different models who go to school at that campus--all 3 said they tried getting into the figure modeling classes to pose and pick up some bucks--no followup from the professor. I've shot at least 10 models that I now of that are in figure modeling classes (as the model) around the US in some form. About half complain about the programs being very inefficient. So don't take your response personally, it's probably more about incompetence and inefficiency. 2. To the OP: I've gotten a very divided response about figure modeling in art classes from the models I've shot who have done that. Some complain about how tough it is--they're dynamic, very physical and hate being in the same pose for 15-20 minutes. Others love about how it evens out the business cycle. They know that every Tuesday, they've got a couple of hours of posing with guaranteed money all semester long. You don't get rich that way. But for models who hold up their nose at art class fees, the reality is that when you average out a nude model's posing fee for photography and add in...transportation time, marketing and going through casting and emails on MM (one model told me for every hour of shoot time she booked, she spent 3 hours of pre-shoot communication and contacting people and setting up travel) and then additional expenses you don't have with art classes (like makeup or lingerie)...often times 2-3 art classes back-to-back will result in a better hourly rate than the same amount of time posing for photographers with paid work. Ed
Thu Oct 6 11:12 2011 in reply to Anne_C
I know this will probably raise hell but... in General Industry
Well, and it's a deep well... In my honest opinion it comes down to simple economics. 1. Models have a skill to model. This skill can pay. 2. Photographer have a skill to photograph things. This skill can pay. 3. Models can hire a photographer to take pictures of them for a fee based on his/her skill set and usage rights. 4. Photographer can hire a model based on his/her skill set and usage of the models image. Negotiations can vary between the parties depending on their own bartering for more images/usage rights/"looks" etc. These could even turn the negotiations to a form of payment many have always called TFP (time for prints) on the models behalf. In lieu of or along with reduced funds paid to the model. OR the negotiations could be turned to more usage rights of the models image on behalf of the photographer in lieu of or along with reduced funds paid to the photographer. Negotiations can be an exchange of garments paid to the model, gas money, dinner, lunch etc. Anything you desire to work in a negotiation and can both agree upon. What makes this so? Supply and demand. Who has the supply of what the other needs. Models that don't need prints OR at least don't need prints from a photographer unless they can truly enhance their profile most likely will NOT negotiate TFP or whatever and Photographers that don't need what the model may have to offer will most likely NOT negotiate TFP or whatever as well. supply and demand Now how do rights get involved? 1. Models (anyone actually) have rights (I speak for USA for the most part, in some countries this varies) when it comes to the usage of their image in commercial works. <- period 2. Photographers (ALL artists actually) (I speak for USA for the most part, in some countries this varies) have rights when it comes to THEIR works. <- period So it comes down to a barter/negotiation of those rights. Lest ye not forget TIME: Each supplies time some before/during AND after the shoot to create the finished product. So it is also a barter/negotiation of time spent. Why do models have no rights over their "work" note I am not saying they have no rights based on the usage of their image THAT is a given. They have no rights over "modeling" itself because "Works that have not been fixed in a tangible form of expression are not protected under the Copyright Act..." http://www.bitlaw.com/copyright/unprotected.html (was one of the first links that popped up in the google search... So it all comes down to negotiations based on who holds what rights, and whom values whose time and rights more or even equally for that matter and who is putting out what percentage of the work on the project etc etc etc... You can pick it to death and say what about this or what about that well those are all part of the negotiations too. But perhaps I am being to reasonable...
Tue Oct 4 18:08 2011 in reply to emleighdee
What do you think was I in the wrong in Photography Talk
Tried to post this back on page 1 but MM seemed to have a hiccough and could not access for awhile. Some has already been covered but something else: I have had a similar situation with the same model at least a year apart (boyfriend/fiancee in one case and work called the second) except that I had made the booking and was shafted . However in each case had another reliable model backed up. 1. So it was model's idea to shoot and model's idea to shoot in hotel. You offered to cover cost of hotel bill but she had to use her credit card to cover the booking (common application here in Australia - cash not as good as a credit card) . She cancelled without sufficient notice to change booking so full fee is due to the hotel. You have lost a friend because she is now screwed out of the fee. In effect she has paid a non refundable booking fee and is now pissed off that you will not refund it, or you were paying her a fee (the hotel bill) for her to shoot, but she faied to show so she does not get paid and instead gets billed. 2. If you had the credit card and same cancellation occurred then you would have lost a friend and you would be screwed out of the fee. 3. If you were a professional photographer doing this scenario you would require the model to pay a fee to cover the cost of the location + your time to shoot her + the cost of images produced. And before even booking you would require a deposit which would cover any upfront and irrecoverable costs with balance payable on the day. In cases 1 and 2 you have lost a friend. In case 3 the person is a client and not a friend. In case 2 where you have a location booked which is costing money have a backup model or 2. Assuming you could get into the hotel at 2 pm, I would have another model (A) booked for 2.30 - 4.30 your model friend (B) at say 5 pm - 7 pm and a third model (C) for 8 pm - 10 pm. You tell model (A) that there is the possibility of extending her time and she should be prepared for that. You tell model (C) that you may be able to fit her in an hour earlier and extend her time and ask her to be prepared for that. You could also consider having another model (D) for the following morning before bookout time 7am - 9 am. That way you maximise your use of the rented accommodation. If your model (B) cancelled then you extend A for 1 hour to 5.30 have a dinnner and be ready for your early arrival of (C) at 7 pm If the other models also cancel then you have to wonder about your shoot selling ability and try and improve.
Sun Oct 2 00:00 2011 in reply to Gobbo
What is happening out there? in General Industry
I agree. How on earth could a 'model' end up in a shoot without knowing about a release? It should never happen. It COULD be avoided with the addition of an 'induction' area for new models and photographers. IF a photographer chooses a model from that area of the site they do so at their own risk. We also have a new area called 'grievances' where posts like this can be made. The op chose a model who is clearly not a professional. Every model and photographer have to start somehwere BUT they should learn the code of professional conduct and things like no flaking, signing release forms, etc etc. BEFORE commencing work here. Otherwise it reflects badly on all of us; particularly when these klinds of threads are so prolific. Yesterday one poster, a photographer who had no model pics in his port, said he couldn't find a single reliable model in Chicago. There are 6700. Half will be amateurs or wannabes or inactive. But that still leaves 3000 odd models with some experience of all kinds. Ten minutes of searching revealed some of the best model ports I have ever seen. Most of them were also Agency signed. Some newcomers with really tremedous potential; some genre specialists and some great journeymen. So these 'model knocking' threads all over the place undermine the professionalism of the site and the reputation of highly professional models here. We are entitled to ask what you want the images for; but will expect to sign a model release form. Anybody who is a professional model will expect that. We can't get rid of these models; but we should give them some tuition in this kind of thing by putting them in an induction forum if they have no experience where they can learn the ropes. And gripes about MM models (or photographers) that are related to using such amateurs in what is supposed to be a site for professionals reflects badly on us all: so a forum area for that would be good.
Thu Sep 29 14:17 2011 in reply to Tom Silk Photography
Forum quality... in Site Related Forum
And you accused me of writing War and Peace. Debate is about exchange of ideas. When one person is resistant to the ideas they need to be repeated in case you failed to grasp it or address it. I read your post about why you didn't need to pay models and acknowledege you had a point. You - and others -failed to address the points I made in that thread and some of you were diabolically rude. If you insist on remaining entrenched in the west bank and gaza strip then we can go at it for twenty years. Talking should be about understanding and seeing each others viewpoint. That isn't always possible. BUT on this it should be. I get paid because there is demand for my services and you should respect that. You may not need or want to shoot with a model like me but I am entitled to make a living and did. In this thread you have also failed to acknowledge that many of the models are unhappy about the forcefulness and rudeness and constant complaining about MM models being amateur and flakes. There are some absolutely top class models here. It sometimes makes me feel what on earth am I doing here because they are so good. We wish to be able to discuss some issues sometimes without that kind of sarcasm and aggression that is all. You are welcome to contrubute but without negativity. The moderation does not always work. I received ad hominem attacks today. Your first post in this thread was to my mind verging on trolling. I have had posts deleted for less. We want this site to reflect the professionalsim of the many models on it that are reliable and professional; and also the many great photographers here including yourself. We cannot do that without having a bit of respect for each other; and some mutual determination to tidy up the site so the continuing threads about stripper rates and flakes do not vomit over the good stuff daily. They need to be in a grievance forum. I will go there and argue with you but I don't like doing it in an area I feel should be about our modelling not how you think we should all work for tf; or someone else thinks we are some kind of joke internet models who flake etc. I have made my first contribution in the MC tonight. It will help some models get into a very well paid and reliable modelling field. If you don't know about it just don't pout scorn over it that is all we ask . It will help photographers too since models who do uit will learn alot about poise and drape etc and we won't be so reliant on you paying us. I have for example posted a top London model in that thread who is seeking to test at the moment. Look up 'fitting modelling'. And please do not derail it unless you have something that can contribute other than hurtful sarcasm. The place may be more civil because so many models have left; and many frequently don't participate. I find bad language when used in anger upsetting; especially when accompanied by insult. Others do too. Hence the photographers outnumber the models while the models just get on with getting the work and keeping their heads down. And it is because of all the attacks. I am also sending you a pm so you know the kind of thing that we are talking about doesn't mean you but the faintly ridiculous and unwarranted stuff we have to deal with and so are on def con one. However; I will thank you for your apology. Sincerely. There is nothing but dignity in a man who can say sorry and you have gone up in my estimation. Thank you and apologies if I said anything to upset you too. I hope Diana and Springheel can make it up to because I really value both of them. Eliza xx
Wed Sep 28 22:30 2011 in reply to PashaPhoto