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Columbus Glamour/Artistic Nude Workshop in Events in North Central US
Date: 7/13/13 Cost: $125.00 per Session or $200.00 per Double Session (For same Photographer Only no shared times allowed) Location: Studio (Near down town Columbus) Attention All Photographers: Never before opportunity to shoot with three Featured Nude Figure Models ! Columbus Digital and D&D will be hosting a first of its kind Glamour/Artistic Nude combination Workshop Shootout featuring all female nude friendly Models! Each Photographer will have the opportunity to develop your skills while shooting with (3) Featured Models. Each session will consist of a 30 minute shoot with each model (Totaling 90minutes). Each photographer will have a choice between Glamour Nudes or Artistic Nude styles. Limited props will be available at each setting, lingerie can be added (if desired) but all clothing most be supplied by the photographer. Any lingerie or other clothing items supplied by the photographer will not be returned if worn by the Model. Back grounds will be white or black. All times will be strictly enforced by the Instructors with no exceptions! The location is just South of the Columbus Downtown area. Less than ten minutes from the I-70/Front Street exit. Actual address will be provided upon confirmation of your payment. Each Photographer is automatically entered into the Shootout Contest. Each Photographer is permitted to submit two photos into the contest. Photos cannot be edited or altered in any way. All entries must be submitted by no later than 7:15 PM. At the end of the Shootout the Models along with the two hosts will judge all of the entries and determine the top picks. One will be selected based on the Best Glamour Shot and the other one based on the Best Artistic Shot. The top winners will receive a $50.00 cash prize along with their winning photo posted on the thread and the models portfolio. The following times are available: Session I 9:00 - 11:30 AM (Two time slots available) Session II 11:30 - 1:00 PM (Two time slots available) Session III 1:00 - 2:30 PM (Two time slots available) Session IV 2:30 - 4:00 PM (Two time slots available) Session V 4:00 - 5:30 PM (Two time slots available) Session VI 5:30 - 7:00 PM (Two time slots available) The Host will be available to assist with lighting, set-up, and any other questions you may have. This workshop/shootout is intended to be an opportunity to expand your photography knowledge and skills as well as fill your portfolio with top quality professional models! All you need to bring with you is your camera. Lighting is provided, though you are welcome to bring your own along with you! However no additional set up time will be allowed. No escorts or assistants will be allowed in the shooting area. Please contact us at DMPHOTO1234@aol.com to reserve your time session(s). Each Session is only $125.00. Sessions will only be assigned once a full payment is received. Requested times will be confirmed if the time slot is available, otherwise the next closet time slot will be assigned. This is an opportunity to shoot with three nude freindly models. You will not get an opportunity like this very often! It's an opportunity to work with (3) models, with hair and makeup professionally done, in a studio setting without all of the leg work typically involved! Meet your All-Star Featured Nude Models! Confirmed: LRaeE http://www.modelmayhem.com/2884744 Note this will be her first time shooting nudes ! Long Blonde Hair, 5’-8”, 121 lbs, Bust 34C x 25”waist x 36”hips Confirmed: Jori Smith http://www.modelmayhem.com/366031 Jori is an excellent Model and Loves to make Art! Long Blonde Hair, 5’-9”, 130 lbs, Bust 34D x 28”waist x 38”hips Confirmed: Mandy1983 http://www.modelmayhem.com/3025385 Mandy is a new Model and is ready to Shoot ! Long Blonde Hair, 5’-3”, 112 lbs, Bust 34C x 25”waist x 34”hips Tentative: Magdalena Wigal http://www.modelmayhem.com/2914291 Beautiful Model that loves the camera. Long Blonde Hair, 5’-8”, 128 lbs, Bust 36B x 26”waist x 34”hips Tentative: Alexi Jade http://www.modelmayhem.com/2806285 Alexi says, Let's shoot, I want to be in front of your camera/camcorder. Blonde Hair, 6’-1”, 140 lbs, Bust 36C x 26”waist x 37”hips Tentative: Modella-Nudes http://www.modelmayhem.com/2354504 Modella is a traveling Model and loves to be nude. 5’-10”, 115 lbs, Bust 32B x 24”waist x 34”hips Tentative Models to be confirmed based on the sign up response. Your feed back will be used to confirm each Model. So message me with your top three picks. In the event a model cancels prior to the scheduled date, we reserve the right to replace the model as needed. Contact me now! The time slots won't last long, so don't hesitate.
Posting full nudes without a model release in Model Colloquy
As others have mentioned, it depends. The photographer typically owns the copyright. This suggests that there are no copyright issues with the photographer posting the images. However, the model has certain rights that vary from state to state. Does the usage violate any of the model's rights? What is the context of the usage? If the context violates the model's rights of publicity, then a release would be required. Rights of publicity vary from state to state, but generally require permission from the model in order to use the model's likeness to promote goods and/or services. If the image is being used to promote goods/services (perhaps a photography business), then a release is probably needed. Did the model have an expectation of privacy? Were these private images commissioned by the model? Was the full frontal image taken without the model's consent (i.e. it was snapped while model was changing). If the model had a reasonable expectation that the images would be private, or that the images would not be taken, then he may have a case. Does the context of the images portray the model in a false light? If the image is being used alongside an editorial about gay bars, then the context may imply the model is gay. If the model is not gay, then he may have a case if the images paint him in a false light. Is the model identifiable from the image? If it merely a closeup of an anonymous penis, then the model might have a hard time convincing a court that he has been harmed. What was the agreement between the model and photographer? If they agreed that full frontal images would be kept private, then this might be a "breach of contract" issue. In other words, it's a surprisingly complicated question. The answer depends on many omitted details. In a case like this, it is very important that the model talk to an actual attorney, and not rely on the web for advice. The details of the case will be critical. Some of the issues vary from state to state, and some are federal issues. I am not an attorney, so he certainly should not rely on anything I say (other than he should talk to a lawyer).
How hard is it for you to get a model? in Photography Talk
When I considered shooting models and building a portfolio, I had several different directions to consider: headshots, weddings, and commercial. I started off shooting trash-the-dress shoots, because for post-wedding photos they are quite popular, and I thought the engagement photo and wedding market might be good. My aim was to build up and then launch and make money. Since I was an old dinosaur surrounded by young competitive mammals I paid my first three models so I could get on Model Mayhem with a portfolio that would attract models and allow me to do my T-Rex thing. Location is something that catches the eye. It is not easy work. I paid an assistant so I could have a wider range of shots and get more work done. On Model Mayhem I have had some pro travelling models express interest in shooting TF with me and because I shoot locations it has a certain appeal. I get models expressing interest in shooting with me but I have just started making money, and not much yet, and as I don't have a strong passion for photography I am really focused on moolah and, therefore, TF, is not something that summons my interest. It may not be realistic but I tell models that if I sell anything I'll split it with them, etc. I suppose in this ramble that I am really starting to zero in on the essentials of photographic success. Focus. Whatever you do, really know it. I could light before I shoot models. I never asked for critique on MM because I already have successful photographer/cinematographer friends who can do that for me. So, when I started,the concepts I had were already market-tested but edgy enough to intrigue models. Exploiting locations and putting it with a theme that isn't out of a fairy tale book allows you to attract interest. I recall one model who was interested and she was really a part-timer who enjoyed modelling and did want to get serious. So, the shoot was a canyon. I asked if she had any guns because we could do a desperado-on-the-run thing. And now for one of the shots that didn't happen as reality hit the model's life like a truck smashing into a penguin, and so we didn't shoot at all. An oak tree in the background has a rifle leaning against it. The female model strikes a pose and looks into a hand-held mirror and she looks impressed with herself. She is standing on a body, a male (the model had a husband) and there's blood coming out of his mouth and he's dead. Oh, well, the shots that didn't happen. . . If you can come up with different, models will hunt you down. And then you'll have to hide out. Practice a lot and focus on the tasks of practice. Photography to me is a craft, an interesting one, and it doesn't always take long to master a craft. If you're a focused dinosaur. . .and want to shoot a fabulous mammal, be engaging, and become authoritative, and don't do many TFS. Maybe 15 at most and then turn pro. Presuming you crack the code, that is. It's not that hard for me to get models on MM. I finally figured out how to write castings that got their interest. Oh, one thing that makes some different. Risk-takers. I take risks. You know how you shouldn't get in the water with your camera without some protection for it? I risk the gear as I have to get the shot. I just have to do it. I don't allow models to take risks but I think they get inspired. . .
How hard is it for you to get a model? in Photography Talk
I've never paid/hired a model to shoot with me, not even from the start. How hard is it for me to get models though? Well, that all depends on what I'm looking to shoot. If I put up a casting for head shots/portraits; I get tons of responses. If I put one up for either editorial or fashion; I get a lot of responses. If I put one of for swimwear; I get quite a few responses. If I put one up for lingerie; I get some responses. If I put one up for art nudes; I might get anywhere from 2 to 5 responses. If you want to get models to shoot with you the inexpensive way , then here's my advice (and how I did it)... Most, if not all of the models here want good, clean head shots; most especially if they're just starting out. A lot of them DON'T really want to pay someone to shoot their head shots though, because either they're not sure how they'll do at this and doing it on a whim or they don't have enough to pay someone who's really good at shooting them. If you're willing to trade, then head shots are a good way to practice and to get more photos in your portfolio. At first you're not going to get the best models here, so don't be overly picky on who you shoot with. The goal is to get proficient at one level and then move up to the next. While you're shooting the head shots, try to shoot some editorial or fashion as well. Models are always grateful for more than just one type of shot to add to their book, especially if they're getting it free. As YOUR work improves, it becomes easier to find models who'll want to shoot with you. The better the models you shoot with, the better your work will look and the more appealing a shoot with you will look to other models. You can then branch out and shoot stuff like swimwear or lingerie. Shooting isn't all it takes though. You really HAVE TO work at mastering the art of photography. Study; take classes; go to seminars; read books and magazines; or go online and learn tips from free web sites like Strobist or photo.net. Also, don't be afraid to put your work up for criticism by posting in the Critique forum here. There's an abundance of information out there for you; you just have to put the energy into gathering it. With time, energy, skill, talent, and a bit of luck, you'll get to a point where models now seek you out and put you on their wishlist. You'll also become more and more marketable as you work improves, so you won't need to trade anymore for stuff like head shots or fashion and instead get paid for your time. If you have the money and can afford it, then go ahead and pay for group shoots in your area so you can get more images up. You can also hire models in your area to get the types of shoots in you want to shoot, but in my opinion if you pay a top model to shoot with you and the best you can come up with is either amateur-looking or doctored-up porn, then you're wasting your money. Crappy work from a model you paid WILL NOT make more models want to shoot with you for free. On the other hand; if you become extremely good at what you do (take a look at Phillip Ritchie's work, for example), then models will pay YOU to shoot them. Do some people who shoot crap get hired by models? Sure, if you're good at marketing yourself and there aren't a lot of other options for the models in your area. But when you're in a big city, with tons of competition, you really have to up your game to draw people to you. [EDIT] I just looked at your casting calls. It looks like you want to shoot something very specific for YOU. The odds of finding a model who wants to shoot that exact theme, is going to be very difficult, in my opinion; especially if you don't have that much work in your portfolio, and nothing that shows you'll be able to pull off this theme and come up with some spectacular image. If someone like Dave LaChapelle put up the same casting, he'd likely have models lined up at the door wanting to shoot it. Why? Because he has an extensive body of work that shows how creative and skilled his work can be. My advice would be to stop putting up casting calls, and instead start responding to the ones the models put up. Shoot what THEY need, and then if everything goes well, they might want to shoot the idea you have in mind.
Commercial model vs fashion model in Model Colloquy
[img]http://www.johnfisher.com/images/1camelle3803fs.jpg[/img] Annie, a fashion model doing commercial advertising work for Camelle Miami (Nicole Swanson, Designer) You are asking a very interesting question, and it's not always understood even by people in the business. You can discuss different looks, but it's more complicated than that. All the stats, even the look can be similar, but what separates a fashion model from a commercial model is how she is developed and in most cases, who does the developing. One thing that makes this even more confusing is that fashion models and commercial models often do the same work (although as someone mentioned earlier, the fashion model usually gets paid a lot more). The truth is, most of the real paying work a fashion model does is commercial work. Shoot a catalog or an ad series for Guess or Sears? That's commercial work. The model shooting for Guess is a fashion model, where the Sears catalog girl is usually (but not always) a commercial model. And this is where it all gets weird. The model shooting for Guess is not a fashion model because she's shooting for Guess (or Bebe, or H&M, or etc.), but only fashion models are used by Guess. Am I making myself clear? No? I didn't think so, this is something you kind of Grok if you're in the business. Fashion models are represented and "developed" (a really important word) by EDITORIAL fashion agencies. The so called editorial agencies develop the girls by getting them into the editorial sections of the magazines as quickly as possible. The models and the agents (who are on commission) get paid very little for this work. The pay off is that once the girl has a number of editorials behind her, her rates for commercial work go up exponentially. (By the way, this is exactly how it works for photographers as well.) I posted a model's commission statement a couple of weeks ago, and it was illuminating. She had clients that paid her hundreds of thousands of dollars, but there were four listings for jobs that paid 125 to 250 dollars. Why would a model who made 10's of thousands for a single campaign work for $250? Because it was a Vogue cover, and without that exposure (development), she would never be considered for the high end fashion advertising work. Strangely enough, whether she did the magazine cover or not, she would look exactly the same! Without the magazine work she is a commercial model, with it she is a highly paid fashion model. Who picks, who does the picking, and who get's picked separate the commercial models from the fashion models. Looks are important, stats are important, but they are not the deciding factor. This is a very strange business. John -- John Fisher 900 West Avenue Suite 633 Miami Beach, Florida 33139 (305) 534-9322 http://www.johnfisher.com
Does anyone just "shoot for fun" anymore? in Model Colloquy
So once again in what way is that not insulting? In addition it is as I have said several times completely unsupportable. Models want to create Art if they are passionate about it. The VAST majority of nude shoots we get offered have NOTHING to do with Art. If we want to do Art then we go to life drawing classes or shoot with a select few photographers who do the same in photography as what those artists and sculptors do. And that is something one can feel passion about doing. Ironically NO ARTIST has EVER suggested that I shoot that for free. So we don't HAVE to shoot for free. If someone is offering you money why do it for free? You can do it for TRADE but the purpose of having those images is to get similar work. So if we have good port pics nude we do not NEED to trade. That does not mean we don't enjoy doing the work - I have already said with nude work there is les pressure. BUT art is about creating new stuff; and some shooters aren't very imaginative. So the idea that walking on a beach nude while seeing how it goes and having fun is an anathema to me I would not enjoy such an unstructured shoot. Not least of all because I have had it with freezing my tits off climbing up rock faces without a photographer knowing what he wants and ending up with not very much different to what I have had before. Give me some wardrobe or a specific mood/theme eg some concept of why we are doing it - and I will respond. So you are right about PROCESS. When that process however is just to have fun taking nude shots of me without a solid idea and structure sorry that is an insult to what we do; and an insult to what most photographers with vision do. Other times the process can be over directed which is not enjoyable either. So the chances of having 'fun' with a photographer are slim. Doing our job with a passion is different but that requires a full commitment to something that we neither need or want in terms of end result and do not find the process 'fun'. We can do it, we will be enthusiastic about doing it because it is your vision and we interpret it, and we can love the process and result. But not fun sorry. To give an example a shoot I did do not nude but semi nude recently was using cliff strata with body contours and reflected in strata of an article of clothing. Fuck yeah right up my alley. But I got paid for it. So what are you saying I should have forgeone that to walk along the beach with a photographer who just wanted to have fun with me while I get nekkid and not get paid? That would be insanity. You saw a short FILM about a model who made sacrifices for her work? You have the opportunity here to TALK to models who have but don't realise you are. I gave up a $70k job and living in a £1.75 million pad in Kensington at 26 years old with plenty of world travel - imagine my prospects. I had two passions I wanted to indulge. I wanted to contribute to geographical research and get a doctorate; and I wanted to indulge my passion for the Arts somehow. So I did. I lived instead in a tiny shared flat and PAID my Uni fees; and in every spare moment went to Art galleries and photography exhibitions. I thought being devoid of talent re painting and only a basic shooter (depsite being published in Geographical magazine) I could maybe model for Art classes. I already enjoyed using my body through dance pilates and yoga classes which again I paid to do. I did some Art classes and was soon modelling privately for artists and the institutions like the Royal Academy. Not great money but ok and it helped me pay for noodles. I only bought food on the sell by date. I was offered really well paid promo work and consultancy work and temping that was high paid but it wasn't my bag. There was spin off work. I was soon modelling for artists who were also photographers, fashion students and designers, comic book artists, sculptors whose friends had vintage clothes companies etc. So I began to get clothed work, and a photographic portfolio. But the money was still quite basic just enough to survive but it was my only income. I began to study vintage fashion because of the vintage work. I would spend a whole day's wages on one 1940's Vogue. Every copy of Vogue she could get her hands on my arse. I would spend hours in vintage magazine and clothing shops. I would even advise them and sometimes get paid a few quid or good discounts. I got to be pretty expert on fashion. When I got an interview with AP they were surprised I could date and name every one of their old collections: stuff they had made but couldn't even recall themselves. I never thought I would model fashion in any way other than the vintage stuff. Then I got the job in that major fashion house. They liked me and wanted me more and more. So that was when I had to give up the PhD I had already thrown thousands of pounds at. They were offering me decent money but still not anywhere near what I did before or what I could have got doing consultancy. It didn't matter. I was working with my favourite designer in the flesh every day. The creations of my favourite design house were coming together on my body. When I'd see the garments in the shop windows it was like seeing a body cast in fabric. The LOVE far outweighed the money but the latter wasn't bad. I got used in a runway show alongside top London agency girls during London fashion week. Our MUAs and hair stylists had come straight from the Vivienne Westwood show. I felt sick with worry knowing £500k's worth of orders depended on my walking down that runway and the cost of what was being invested in us. Being invited for champagne at the end of it with the boss meant I had done ok but the pressure had been enormous. Love, passion, reward working with the best and doing one's best, a massive adrenaline buzz. NO FUN. Fun does not come into it. Ever. The agency girls said I should apply to agencies. I wasn't bothered. I explained that I was more interested doing a variety of eclectic modelling for small people and having the job here than doing two agency jobs a month for big money. They told me they were on MM too because that could be boring. I had two agency interviews. At the same time I had an interview for a fully funded PhD in Swansea and the one agency wanted me to stay in London so I didn't do it. They offered me a job doing an air stewardess thing for a Heathrow magazine. Good money but not interesting if it meant giving up my other passion of research. So here I am. TWICE in my life giving up good money for passion. I can still model at a lower level in my spare time and have no shortage of people ready to pay me for it. I can pick and choose my modelling jobs and will go every time for a low paid one with exciting clothes than a high paid one doing something less interesting. But I am not insane and I am not a hippy and I don't model for fun. I don't do unpaid stuff with arseholes who think they are big shots and expect it just because they get off on shooting nudes and walking along the beach with them and try to persuade me to 'see where it takes us baby'. And THAT is the reality of most of the 'fun' shoots that are put to me and many other models. So the last nude(ish) beach shoot I did I was paid for and it was semi nude with some clothing. The photographer is really exciting to work with because he is experimental and uses out of date polaroid film and vintage Hasselblad cameras. He has paid me many times before. He has great ideas. One was to echo geological cliff strata and colours with a couple of clothing pieces and body shape and pose. Great images. Great process. Hard work. Never a question of not paying me but I put him up here too and took him out. AFTER the shoot there can be fun. I know because I have worked alongside in Fit and Art modelling a hundred freelance models with similar stories who are dedicated to their work and have often made great finanical sacrifices to do it. They don't have silly dreams and know it isn't easy money. Each has a story just the same as your film and have given up high paid jobs in Legal firms, accountancy etc. But to do it at all they need some low pay and what is more there is NO shortage of people offering it. You have to do a lot of it to make a living and then you are knackered. It is NOT fun we do it for passion. Tony if you tell a model your creative vision for a shoot and they see your port and you look for a professional model and pay them a little or expenses plus tf they will respond well. Your problem is PRECISELY because you try to go for the girls who do it for free and for fun and who are NOT serious. That is why you get flakes!!!! And it is YOU who don't get anything because you appear to have difficulty reading so ignore what I write. Yeah well carry on watching short films about models and getting all your ill informed ideas from such. I DO get it. I get it very well. You think you can get models to work for nothing. And they don't show because you are going for ones that you think are in it for fun. Your natural amateurs doing it for fun do a few shoots realise what hard work it is shooting for people with passion and consumed with vision and don't bother logging in ever again or blow you out. The rewards for modelling are many but fun is not generally one of them and the money is NOT easy or good. It wasn't the fun they expected. And who gets the blame? We do because we get paid for what we do? WTF? I will challenge you every time you peddle this nonsense.
"Get your tits out!" in General Industry
With all due respect Stefano what you say is based on success in PHOTOGRAPHIC modelling only. To most of us that is a very small part of our work. The vasy majority of working models do a bit of it and get most of their work from promo. So when for example you next go to a trade fair for fashion or the International Spring Fair or a car show or virtually anything at Olympia or Earls Court or the NEC or any major sporting event or on promotional stands in shopping malls and department stores even and see all the girls working on those stands and demosntrating or showing the product or walking around with a sash THAT is where those models make most of their money. Some are tall, some are short. To GET that work which I am fully aware many photographers here sneer at and say isn't proper modelling one NEEDS a photography port. That does not mean that they will get paid for the modelling by photographers much at all and in fact sometimes they'd be best advised to get opne done by paying. But when they have good images DON'T you worry about them getting paid work because this sector is the biggest employer of models. Now here's the problem. Can a five foot 4" girl - or for that matter a 6ft model - get FULL time work shooting nude? Some yes. Now that is hard bloody work to get unless one is either shooting glamour or one goes for the FAR more regular and stable work where you are often payrolled by the institution doing life drawing. From which there are MANY spin offs. See all the public statues around and those in galleries and even in gift shops? seen all the comics and graphic novels? ALL involves models and this work comes from initially doing life modelling. And one's diary is NEVER barren. By contrast my shoots nude by photographers (as opposed to artists shhoting for reference) were limited to maybe a couple a month. Hardly lucrative and in fact it is THAT work that is not of muc interest finacially because it is irregular and you have to seek it whereas the art institution stiuff comes to you and is regular. Now the problem. You can make money doing glamour. BUT if you do glamour, you won't get work for boutiques or commercial clients if they are a bit wary of nudity. And believe me they are. I have LOST work because I have modelled nude and know many other girls that have too. With me it has been a few boutiques no biggie. But with some girls they have not only lost promo jobs but also full time jobs in other areas when a work colleague finds their pics on the web. So it is not a decision to be taken lightly. The truth is most pro models are not bothered by being a top magazine model. I am far happier to have been able to pay my rent and live well with a great social life in London for three years and only produce five tears in that time than have dreams of fame. I don't know ONE model I worked alongside that did either. We have our feet firmly grounded and the point of being a model is to pay the bills and we can because there IS demand for us by others other than photographers. All these models do a bit of everything or specialise in a couple of genres or work part time model and part time acting dancing performance MUA or whatever. Some are agency signed, but still have to do the promo work. Some are character agency signed. ALL the poster snad ads you see in magazines which DON'T have six foot fashion models are done by girls and guys like us. But yoir chances of being on a Transport poster, in a sofa or mortgage ad, or working the NEC at a fashion trade event or the Spring Fair, or a boutique are possibly going to be affected by the nature of any nude work you have done. I don't think you have any idea how much work there is for boutiques btw. Yes, if they can get a tall girl they probably will. But not from an agency. They want a local girl who they work with regularly to say 'Eliza Eliza please can you come in and show a dress to a weathy client tomorrow' or 'Eliza can you do our fashion show or model some dresses at our wine and cheese evening every thursday?' etc. It doesn't take a great deal to get a dozen punters like that to make a fair bit of money. These are £50-£140 gigs but they maybe each use you two or three times a month. A model can make more than one would relying on photography. EVERY smart boutique in the country uses such models from time to time and so do hair salons. And if you get fit work you are landed. There are thousands of us doing this kind of stuff Stefano and we aren't all tall. So please respect that is what many of us do either full time or part time and THAT is the reason we don't need to apply for the tf jobs and when we do them we have the luxury of picking which ones we do. And why would we go through all the concern of shooting nude with people who have NOWHERE near the kind of port you do for tf or low pay and have to put up with sneering comments about our rates or snapped at when we ask for references?
"Get your tits out!" in General Industry
Obviously the shorter a model is the less chance of success in certain fields. Never disputed that. But There are plenty of agency models of shorter height outside of the top fashion agencies so it isn't impossible. Not 5ft 1" maybe but plenty of my height. I am sure that my runaway debut alongside models from one of London's top fashion agencies was not geared to selecting models that matched me either. It just so happened that most of them appeared to be not much taller than me despite the agency claims. You haven't sneered. But you are still not correct if you can't accept there is plenty of work for models that are shorter. I am getting tired of coming up with them for you and citing things like fit/showroom and promo but there are a few thousand for you just in London where height is not quite so much a factor. Plus we have had the discussion before: if you have some other skill - acting, dance, acrobatics, and interesting character look or career (Leonna the jockey for example got the four page spread in Zoo without being topless), or a niche market (petite, alt, etc) there is plenty of paid work and one can do a bit of those plus a bit of performance/acting/promo etc. And that then makes thousands of models in the UK who are not what you would call industry stats. In this case the model is 5ft 7" - she can get any kind of work. The thing I would say though is fashion models may often be required to be at least topless or implied and this is something a lot of models do forget. I think that is one of the reasons agency models are sent to life drawing classes to get then to see there is nothing rude about it as well as looking at poses. Models are also often asked to submit nude images for fit/showrrom work too even if they don't usually pose nude. So I'd add my weight to those saying nothing wrong with nude but on the other hand while promo companies may take topless glamour models they often won't take nudes and neither will many companies. I get it repeatedly asked: are you a nude model or have you done page three or Fiesta or done nude internet stuff or anything? It can be bad enough explaining that what I have done was for art not glamour. So models also need to be aware that some types of nude modelling can affect their eligibility for employment in other modelling fields. In fact I know one glamour model who has just lost a good job because of it. So it is not a decision any model should be forced into making.
Mom is unsupportive... and downright brutal? in Model Colloquy
Yes you can get better at photography. And you can also find a niche. Both model and photographers generally do that. 99.999% of either of us won't shoot Vogue. So what relevance did it have to bring it up? And what relevance is comparing £3k for 6 shoots and a tour modelling job to someone who gets ten times that that a day? The agency girls I worked with were on £5k a day. So £3k for a month's gig is not ridiculous. I was on £2k a month before tax and I wasn't on tour and so were most of the freelance models I worked with in a variety of genres and most of them were shortish. You have to earn that kind of money living in London and you can do it at a less than industry standard height too. And working nude CAN stop you getting as many jobs as it gets you. You are completely incorrect about promotional modelling and trade fairs etc. and while it isn't maybe as glamorous as commercial print/fashion photography it does pay not as well but REGULARLY. Now because many of the promo companies hiring models wnat to keep a good team they pay them well for a month on tour then there is no work for another month. So it has to compensate so it isn't that badly paid. I don't know as much about the USA but I know a little. Maybe you don't go to boig trade fairs and see all the models - or do you think they all work for those companies? And when that trade fair is for 7 days then another one for another 4 days then another for 5 etc those models do NOT work for peanuts. May only be £150 a day but add that up and all accom paid. It is ludicrous to think you'd keep a good team or a client happy by paying the models fast food prices. I know LOTS of models who do it not just the one cited. I work at the races sometimes I know dozens. The sash girls, the promo girls and the hospitality girls. Sure they aren't all short but they aren't all tall either. So there is that kind of modelling too - then things like the IPL dancers I have already cited. Yep they fly them in pay them twenty times the local salary of dancers who knows why but they do. No height restrictions. Then there are the character and 'real' people models. These will be drawn from freelance models, tv extras etc. Again no it isn't briliant money but it is if you are away from three weeks doing a movie as an extra it adds up. The thing is with all due respect there is tons of work in any metropolis for shorter models too and of all kinds. Photographers do not see it and because THEY don't want short models they think they have no work unless they do porn. That is crap. Utter crap. I worked alongside hundreds of models on hundreds of jobs across many genres. I VERY rarely met one much taller than me. And I didn't even do the promo or dancing/acting jobs but they did. Even on the runway alonside 8 of the top agency models in London actually I wasn't height challenged. So you can believe all this or choose to believe I am lying but I have never lied here and those who have accused me of it before know it. As I said you need to go to a trade fair or a big arts or music festival or a big sporting event then you will realise the scale of what modelling work is available. Performance promo hostessing sash girls all sorts. And the girls that do it move it is like a travelling circus and when they are away the pay is good. There are no height restrictions on any of the kinds of modelling I cited. As the op is probably going to be doing nude anyway your point is moot about the height. No restrictions on glamour modelling height wise. This doesn't mean I don't agree that it could be a scam or porn etc but don't think a few grand is out of the question to models who are on tour for a month or two because it is normal and it is barely much more than cashier wages but it adds up with food and accom paid for.
Does anyone just "shoot for fun" anymore? in Model Colloquy
I did not say any of that publicly and you insulted me publicly many times. This began in the thread on internet models as I recall and I have noted that every time I see you in forums you are making the same points that MM models are unreliable, not worth paying etc. In this thread you made the point you can get girls to model for you off the street without paying them and they shoot for fun. In the previous thread you said that you can get agency models to shoot with you without paying them. You constantly slate MM models. I will constantly challenge you when I think you have made fallacious remarks. It is nothing personal at all. I will constantly challenge anyone who has issues with freelance models charging for a service that some are prepared to pay for. It just so happens you crop up in all the threads that discuss whether models are worth paying, flaking, etc. Numerous times. There are ways of avoiding the pitfalls of flaking etc and I have told you many times to take up industry references. Of course if you are taking a risk on a model that wants to shoot for free and doesn't have references then it is a risk. But most pro freelance models will have exceptional references: they have to to get the work and yes people do take them up. I would respect your opinion more if you realised that the majority of photographers here are not professional either. This does not mean that their work is poor and it does not mean that just because they are a professional they necessarily behave properly. There are all kinds here and there is no barrier to entry for them either. So many of the criticisms that you level at models can also be made against photographers. Except you don't often find models going in the photography forum slating them off. When I do notice a model slating photographers unfairly I will also add my opinion to defend them. And it also means that whoever you are and however good one's port we need to check real name buisness address and references of some kind. BEFORE exchanging telephone numbers. These are some of the issues we have clashed on. It is nothing personal to make these points. I would also appreciate you acknowledging that while you believe the majority of models here to be of low calibre internet flakey type, you also acknowledge that there are thousands of good pro models here including the three from London's top agency I cited you before; and of course the many agency models I pointed out were in your area. You have ignored me when I have repeatedly made such citations. I never said that models on here aren't bombarded with tf offers at all. In fact I specifically stated they were. You earlier said that they are bomarded with paid offers. And while most mopdels would do well to shoot with someone like yourself tf if they have little in the way of quality port images, unfortunately because of the constant boasting by some quality photographers here that they don't have to pay models the tf requests come in thick and fast from the least capable photographers who can get unpleasant when one declines or offers them rates. I am certainly not fixated on you. You just seem the one who repeats this the most so I end up challenging it a fair bit. In this thread I made the point that those who shoot for free and for fun who are not models do so in their spare time. To actually put modelling or photography before money one has to make it the priority often quitting far better paid work. So accusing anyone who does modelling or photography for financial reward to be mercenary is moot. To continue to make it a priority one must have a demand for what they offer. And so why shoot for fun alone? Indeed, when taking the photographer's brief seriously why should fun be the priority? If they are paying for our efforts we should consider it more important than just having fun. We take it seriously and that is why we don't shoot for fun. Making that point is not anything personal against you Tony and be assured I do not hold any grudge against you. However yet again you have attacked me personally attempting to belittle my points with sexist remarks thoiugh I have not done it to you.
Developing Working Relationships with Models in Model Colloquy
As you're not familiar with working with models on MM apparently but wish to use the site to find the right model or models you have started with a conception of one shot that is doable, but you need to revise your pitch. You know how to light, so there's no need to tell people that you haven't shot many models, and you've shot some as we see in your portfolio. You would be lucky to get a swimsuit model, as often they leggy, around 5 foot nine. Some fashion models score swimsuit line contracts. If you're not providing wardrobe, and are relying on the model, you'll need a model who has the kind of outfits that work for this. Hair and makeup. You'll need that, as few models can do a professional job on MUA. Let's go over what you score in the L.A. market. For the model go $250 and go Craigslist, ideally. Why pay? You have a good chance of selling the images to the client. Putting a budget together will get the gorgeous kind of model that will sell the shot. For $250 you can get an agency standard model. 5 foot nine, etc. The ad should be short and simple: "Agency-standard model to pose with a fabulous car collection--lifestyle shots." A lot of models will fill a non-booked day, if it is a few hours. Unless the client responds well to short glamour models, go agency-standard. Or you could bring on board a stills guy who can find these models. Good luck. Also do some research on models. A lot. It will save you time if you know what you're doing.
Model is begging me to remove photos. in Photography Talk
SuperWink, I'm only going to focus on what you have told us, and not all the other random speculation in this thread that goes off on several different presumptions and tangents. YOU have told us this: 1. Your photo shoot was only 8 months ago, so this is recent. 2. It was a group shoot, therefore other people have nude photos of her too, and she was obviously there for the money and not as a favor to any particular photographer. She was obviously willing and fully in control of what she was doing. 3. You paid for a commercial model release in a strongly commercial situation, open to the public. 4. She has two MM accounts and continues to promote herself as a nude model. 5. She wants credit for her nude photos under her current nude portfolio name. --- What we don't know: 1. Was the video that went viral a sexy modeling video? 2. Why is she asking you to remove or rename your photos? My answer at this point would be: It depends. If she is continuing to build her career as a model and wants to try to SEO for herself so her own promotion comes up on top, then no. You can do anything you want with the photos. If she used you and others to make money and to promote herself, which helped get her exposure that led to the making of the video that went viral, then no. You and others helped launch her as a model now gaining celebrity, so you have a rightful vested interest in her success. You funded her and gave her exposure. If she's doing this to monopolize her celebrity or for her own selfish reasons, to try to market herself as a famous model of some sort without other competing photos, then no. They are your photos to do with as you wish. If she is negotiating with Playboy or Hustler, or some other large business and they want to lock up the market by eliminating the "little people" then HELL NO. --- On the other hand, if she has decided to discontinue modeling and wants to move on to a non-modeling life for some personal reasons such as getting married, raising children, building a career that would frown upon her past history as a nude model, etc., then I personally would accommodate her request and bury the photos. If she wants to disassociate her real name from her modeling life for reasons of personal safety or privacy, or because she wants to market her stage name, then I would accommodate her request and use her nude model stage name. --- In any case, you can accommodate wishes without agreeing to crimp yourself with anything in writing or what might be construed by a lawyer as an addendum or further verbal contract. The photos are yours to do with as you wish. You are not taking advantage of her in any way. The agreement that stands, regarding you and her future success as a model, a nude model, an actress, a Playboy model, or any other kind of celebrity is your commercial model release. It sounds to me like she launched her career as a nude model. That was her decision, not yours. If she is a rising star, enjoy the ride with her. Why not? If she becomes rich and famous, then I hope you can sell your original photos of her in her "early years" for a lot of money. That's how that works. It sounds to me like she's not at all "embarrassed" by nude photos of her on the web. She is still promoting herself as a nude model. It sounds more to me like she wants to promote herself for her own benefit, and cut you out. It sounds like she wants to reap the rewards of her success and not acknowledge who helped get her there. Beyond this, I can not speculate. My answer is based on what you have told us so far.
Hindering Models' Work & Photographer Exploitation in Off-Topic Discussion
I just got a letter from MM saying they are bettering the site and excluding more GWCs. I ask this as a point of debate and accuse all good & honorable modelling sites like this, "Are you hindering models from getting paid work and allowing SOME more talented photographers to push newbie models into TFPs"? I have a cases of fact that suggests in an effort to "guard" the models, you could be producing an ill effect. I have 33 years experience. I have a 4 year degree in photography. I've worked in large photographic companies in top jobs. Since 2000 I have been doing my own online retailing and I have 200,000 beautiful stock images of books and CDs, but this excluded me from working with your models and hiring them because I didn't have a portfolio of humans. There came a time when I needed pro models. When I came here, even though I had the experience, the doors were locked UNTIL I photographed 2 different models. This created a cyclic problem that I needed models to get the portfolio. I slammed together a hurried sneak through the door but was rejected, which is fine. I could have cheated with Google Images but I did it right. I went to the classifieds and 2 TFPs. Three weeks later and 3 weeks behind schedule, I bought forward a portfolio and was accepted. I am the publisher, not the photographer. I have no desire to be hired, but I need to hire models. Once "in the club" I see a number of photographers with experience pushing models into TFPs on the promise of future work. I have a very boastful letter from a photographer saying in 7 years he's never paid a model and managed to push their "comfort zones" and is very busy selling their images with no royalties to the models because they stupidly signed the release and all their rights away. I contest there is a strong market full of amateur photographers who would love to shoot more than rocks, flowers, buildings, animals and landscapes and would invest in a professional model given the chance. I suggest there are college students who don't have the experience of working with humans and light and form. You can see an image in your head but as a novice you might not achieve the effect because the body isn't always kind to the camera. I suggest there are models who can help novice photographers from their experience with pros. I teach models regularly about optical illusions to fit into clothes 2 sizes too small. I bet they will pass it on. Most GWCs can be horrid and perverse. I am not ignorant. Some GWCs can be sincere and I think it is up to the model to choose if (s)he wishes to restrict the quality of photographer or allow a larger market. This can be done by one switch on the profile. Models going into the amateurs trying to be pro market, need to be aware of ideas of chaperones and the other safety issues but they are practises they should be adhering to now. My rant on my profile states I feel photographers and photography are too hung up on brand name cameras and dpi. I bet I can duplicate 75% of all art images on this site with a phone cam and Photoshop/GIMP. "It is possible to take lovely art shots using a pinhole camera, a photo scanner, photogram or phone cam. People do not think out of the box and see it is not the size of the wand; it is the magician." This is my opinion. I see MM's stance but I see another viewpoint and I'd be interested in sincere opinions on the subject.
Models who flake! in Photography Talk
I think that he is saying that he plans to consider them unreliable until they prove otherwise by showing up. I have to admit that things seem to have changed for the worse over the last couple of years and would tend to agree. In order to counter the seemingly higher flake rate, I've been particularly vigilant about providing good service and suggesting that models who contact me take the time to contact references, who would attest to this good service. I've delivered every promised image in under a week from the date of the shoot for the last 2 years of shooting, many in under two days. Obviously, professionalism at the shoot is also a plus that models will attest to. However, even with this approach, where I try to make the experience a positive one in every respect, I have had yet another increase in flakes this year. I would estimate that more than half of the models who book shoots with me have cancelled with 8 to 12 hours notice or less, or simply disappeared entirely as if the shoot was never booked. In one instance, I had a model ask for pay the day before a booked and confirmed TF shoot which had taken a couple weeks to put together via messages. In most cases, these are models who contacted me first asking to shoot. I am fortunate in that I do the hair/makeup myself, so if the model flakes I am the only one that is affected. However, I do have to admit that I now view a shoot as tentatively booked until the model walks through the door. In the last month (April 7 to May 7th), I've had 4 models cancel without notice (less than 12 hours, usually after I've gone to sleep the night before a shoot) or simply no-show. In the same time frame, I've had only one model show up for a scheduled shoot (talking specifically about MM models). Previous to that, starting from Jan 1, I had 3 models show for scheduled shoots, and 2 no-shows for a total this year of 4 shows and 5 no-shows. I have one more TF shoot booked for June that I expect will probably show, at which point I'll be at 50% for the first half of the year. While I don't often hire models for personal work, I've never once had a paid model no-show. Food for thought there I guess. Agency models always show when booked through their respective agency, however I just don't like dealing with the agencies. That's the main reason I started this profile, to work with non-agency models and make the shoots a bit more fun. Unfortunately, as time has passed, many of the models who don't show are starting to make it just as much of a pain as dealing with agencies. I may just have to go back to booking agency models only if the trend continues, which is unfortunate because I love the variety in appearance of models on MM much more.
Advice on how to avoid flakes? in General Industry
Red flags= 1.) If the models you're choosing are very young, or new to modeling (often equals lack of confidence, or not serious about modeling) they are more likely to flake. 2.) If you're only offering TF, the model is more likely to flake (no financial incentive for her). That's not to say that paid shoots never flake, you have to take other red flags into consideration. 3.) If you're not consistently checking references on models without established reputations, you're more likely to get flakes. 4.) If you're not offering images that will clearly benefit the models port, she's more likely to flake. This often includes models that you've been in contact with for a long time- ones who finally reluctantly agreed to shoot with you after your continued stream of correspondence. Don't work with models who don't show a clear interest from the start in collaborating with you. 5.) If the models you're choosing are not local (and you're only offering TF), they need to travel more than 30 mins to get to you, or they don't have their own transportation, they're more likely to flake. Offer to pick up the model if it's a long trip. This will eliminate any transportation excuses the model might have, like car trouble, missed the bus, etc. 6.) Pay attention to communication. Does the model return messages promptly, or do days or weeks elapse between messages? Does the model pay attention to detail? When you send her a message with several questions or suggestions, does she address them in her next message? Can she put together a thoughtful paragraph, and give more than a two word answer? Does the model mention kids, boyfriends, car trouble, or provide other details that aren't important to the shoot? If there are red flags in her communication, and she clearly can't be bothered to pay attention to details, she's more likely to flake. 7.) If the bulk of the responsibility for a TF shoot falls on the model, she's more likely to flake. If she has to travel more than an hour round trip (and you don't offer to help), bring a list of 50 specific items to the shoot, do her own hair and makeup, pay for her own gas, etc. Offer to help out in any way you can, it will cut back on the models who flake due to feeling overwhelmed. 8.) The *best* way to eliminate flaking is to do better work. If you talk to some of the best photographers on MM, they'll tell you they rarely (if ever) get flakes, even for TF shoots. Make images that model's would kill to have in their portfolios. There are many more, but hopefully this helps. Be honest with yourself, trust your gut, and don't ignore red flags with the hope that everything will work out just fine.....because it usually doesn't.
Columbia, MD - Artistic Nude Shootout & Workshop in Events
Yay, Nature's Summit is happening on April 21 -- Blue River Dream and Everyone! And the price is specially reduced -- you asked, we heard Weather 66 Fun Lovin’ Sunny Degrees and Perfect Nude Fine Art Weather! http://simplyarlieevents.com/post/48051 … 21-weather And, Freshie Juice makes 10 fabulous models offering talent, diversity and beautiful opportunities to create art! People have expressed interest in attending and we want to accommodate your interest while being fair to the models, the property grounds and even ourselves. The Price of Nature’s Summit is now $295 for members of the Simply Arlie Photography Events Meetup. Joining the Simply Arlie Meetup is free. If you are a bonafide student of photography/art faculty member with a current registration or identification, the rate is $245. All others may now attend at the rate of $395. Here’s an event recap: HOW IT WORKS 10 Fine Art Nude Models 50 Artists and Photographers 200 Acre Farm in Howard County with Rural and Wetlands Group Shoot of all 10 models Rotate in groups of 5 to 6 with color-coded for each station tickets Attend (9) 30-minute sessions Burn-It: Fire Spinning Duo Body Painted Living Statues Bathe in Beauty Outdoor Bath and More!!! Creative Workshops Storytelling 101 (2) sessions Strobe Lighting Nature Portraits Communicating with Models Breakfast and Lunch Models Releases Included 8 Raffle Ticket Entries to win (1) 30 minute one-on-one One Fixed Price NonRefundable RAIN or SHINE BUY TICKETS: http://naturessummit.brownpapertickets.com/ OR via direct RSVP to lightimagined@gmail.com STUDENTS AND FACULTY MUST DIRECT RSVP SCHEDULE SUMMARY 8:15 am Registration and Breakfast 9:00 am Group Shoot of all Models 9:30 am Model Group Shoot I 10:15 am Model Group Shoot II 11:00 am Model Group Shoot III 11:45 am Model Group Shoot IV 12:30 pm Model Group Shoot V 1:00 pm Lunch 2:00 pm Model Group Shoot VI 2:45 pm Model Group Shoot VII 3:30 pm Model Group Shoot VIII 4:15 pm Model Group Shoot IX 5:00 pm Raffle Ticket Selections 5:15 pm Winners One-on-One Sessions 6:00 pm Group Dismissal FEATURED MODELS Alexandria Adair MM# 1816206 Blue River Dream MM # 225550 Dragon (male) MM# 2991267 Emily Camille MM# 180330 Henna MM#1630018 Nia MM# 2149120 Ofelia Linh MM#2979981 Sasha MM# 2930898 Sweet Pea MM#2660567 Freshie Juice MM#1444257 Models are subject to change due to unforeseeable circumstances, but will be replaced, if necessary, with suitable replacements. Photographs are from the actual property which undergoes construction in June — yes, this is an awesome opportunity that cannot be repeated at this location.
May 4th - Homegrown Hotties - Riverside, CA in Events
Good Monday morning. Three weeks to go! Here's the latest flyer and confirmed model line up for this event. And now for the good news. Mike has made some progress and will hopefully be back online soon!! In the meantime, his contact information is at the bottom of the flyer in case you need to get a hold of him. [img]http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8114/8653031250_e1aa619e39_b.jpg[/img] THIS IS A LISTING OF INVITED MODELS - Models will be added as they are hired and we will do everything in our power to insure that they will show-up: Every one of these models is real (not a figment of my imagination) and their photos are linked to their MM profiles so you can check out their portfolios. PLEASE DO NOT HARASS THE MODELS WITH SILLY MESSAGES. It is acceptable to contact a model to arrange a 1-on-1 slot in advance. PICTURES OF THE MODELS WILL BE ADDED AS THEY CONFIRM Alexis Nichole - MM 689681 - Lingerie Model Photo Credit: Shoms Photography [img]http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8532/8651983019_5ee7a0213f_b.jpg[/img] Asia Perez - MM 872441 - Nude Model Photo Credit: Visual Chameleon [img]http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8523/8653453328_e2e879e8a5_c.jpg[/img] Chrissy Marie - MM 1224167 - Nude Model Photo Credit: Karl Yamashita [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/110524/09/4ddbe143d5926.jpg[/img] Inked Little Doll - MM 2905207 - Nude Model Photo Credit: Apple Valley Studios [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/130123/09/51001b724899a.jpg[/img] Marley Fisher - MM 2722406 - Lingerie Model Photo Credit: Photos by Farley [img]http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8243/8652052151_e23f13fd6c_c.jpg[/img] Megan Starr - MM 1682190 - Nude Model Photo Credit: Venus Light Magic [img]http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8256/8653183846_b43793748f_c.jpg[/img] Mercedes Hazel-Eyes - MM 2688670 - Lingerie Model Photo Credit: Py Studios [img]http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8111/8653208334_76e6a844a1_c.jpg[/img] Michelle Amara - MM 1258171 - Nude Model Photo Credit: Sassy Cat Photography [img]http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8122/8652133505_47318c5183_c.jpg[/img] M KAY Hailey RAY - MM 1730418 - Lingerie Model Photo Credit: ARTOGRAPHI [img]http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8398/8652153151_a41a3c6732_c.jpg[/img] Stephanie Stone - MM 173028 - Lingerie Model Photo Credit: ARTOGRAPHI [img]http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8116/8652171819_7a14d41d1b_c.jpg[/img] Tavs - MM 3668 - Nude Model Photo Credit: Sand Addiction Magazine [img]http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8120/8652194709_b054587b6a_c.jpg[/img]
I trust the Model Mayhem community, in General Feedback
Since your profile says your main goal is to be hung in galleries, that suggests artistic work. It’s a simple equation. I think you have a look that could work well with that genre. That’s why I sent you an FR a while back. Rather than suggest specific poses for you to try or learn, I’m going to suggest that you learn artistic posing. Many models don’t get artistic posing. Some who are very good at glamour, for example, or other genres will never get it. Occasionally a model will get it instinctively. There’s a model in the Baltimore area who posted her first artistic nude shoot a few months ago, and the results were amazing. For most, I think, it takes some practice, self-evaluation and maybe an adjustment in mindset. I’m not suggesting that you learn the “textbook” poses that you’ll find in books on nude photography from the 1940’s – or at least not that you stop there. Develop your own posing style. Good artistic poses, in my opinion, must be graceful. Beyond that they can be dramatic. They can tell stories and create moods. They can be adaptive to the surroundings. They are not memorized poses. You will find yourself *creating* poses that you’ve never seen before. A good artistic model creates art, every bit as much as a photographer does. (The same is true in other genres, but perhaps not always to the same extent.) I can direct models into artistic poses - but they're not even close to what a talented artistic model can produce. While there are photographers who can create amazing artistic poses and in some cases even demonstrate them for models, frankly most of us can't. Most photographers are best at lighting and shooting. Posing and expressing (perhaps with general and minimal direction) are the model's forte, or at least in most cases, imo, they should be. The best place that I know of to learn the basics of posing is this DVD set: http://www.photographingmodels.com/reg.html The DVD is not about artistic posing. It's about the principles of posing, which are essentially the same from one genre to another. Understanding the principles of posing won’t make you a great artistic model. It’s just the foundation. You will learn to *create* one graceful, artistic pose after another. Then there are expressions. To some, the only appropriate expression for an artistic nude is a serene gaze into the distance. I don’t subscribe to that. Expressions can also be dramatic, suggested by the surroundings or the situation, and they can be story-telling. More than anything else, imo, most often it is emotion expressed by the model that creates a powerful connection between the viewer and a photo. For most models, posing comes first. Only after the model becomes so comfortable with posing that she can put her body on autopilot and focus on expressions does a model get really good at expressions. There are exceptions. There is a shortage of good artistic nude models of Asian descent, mainly, I believe, because there are elements of Asian culture (in some countries at least) that discourage that. If there is an exception to that in the US, it's in the Bay Area. This is a generalization and not an absolute, but I believe that Asians (particularly from certain countries) often possess a peace and serenity that many others don't, and that comes across in their work. You mentioned agencies. Your stats are close to top agency standards, but they aren’t there. There may be some artistic models who are represented by agencies, but I know of none – at least none who are represented for their artistic work. So in that regard you’re likely to work as a freelancer. When this book was published a little over a year ago, 4-5 of my freelance model friends wrote to tell me about it. One of them (who is primarily a beauty and glamour model) said that if the book had been available when she started modeling, it would have saved her five years. That’s about $2 a year. http://www.modelmayhem.com/489446 My final suggestion that, as a freelance model, you learn makeup and hair styling. Generally makeup for artistic work has a more “natural” look than makeup for other genres (although I sometimes like to mix elaborate hair styles with artistic nudes). If you can do your own makeup and hair, and do it well, it will increase your marketability – because photographers who hire you will only be paying you – not an MUA and/or hair stylist. Several of the artistic models I know are also certified MUA's. Needless to say, that can also add a second income stream in addition to modeling. Hope this helps.
Things Have Really Changed! in General Industry
I started modeling about 13 years ago, and it's funny to sometimes recollect on how much things have changed since then in both photography and modeling. Back then, it seemed like there were fewer professional photographers with photography businesses. It also seemed like the ones that did exist invested a lot in their equipment and were very knowledgeable, spending time and money to perfect their craft. They were skilled. But now, I feel like every time I go on Facebook, there's a new person who has a shiny new digital camera and all of a sudden they've started their own photography business and they're looking for models to shoot. There are so many of them. And sometimes I wonder, have they studied photography? Have they gone to school or taken courses for it? Do they read about it? Think about it? Live for it? Because I feel like the best photographers live and breathe it. It saddens me that the photographer who has been studying, learning and building their photography for a decade now has to compete with the kid with the new digital camera. I hate to say it, but I'm ashamed that I'm guilty of that myself--when I got married, I hired a friend of the family to do the photography for a very cheap price since he was new at it instead of hiring a good, experienced photographer. And you know what? That's exactly what I ended up with, cheap wedding photos. The photos were so poor that later on, I had my wedding dress photo re-shot by a very good photographer. Needless to say, I now always tell brides to not go cheap on their wedding photos and I make sure to refer quality photographers to them. I think that modeling has gone a similar route as photography. There are so many online sites for models, and newbie photographers anxious to shoot models, that pretty much anyone off the street with decent looks can connect with a "photographer" and do a photo shoot, thus calling themselves a model. I feel like one photo shoot with a photographer who is marginal, at best, does not a model make. Now that I'm getting older, I've been making the switch from being a model, to now using my experience in marketing and event planning to direct fashion shows and fashion events. Because of this switch, I now often have to hire models. What makes me sad is there are a handful of models that I work with on a regular basis who worked very hard to become the wonderful, talented models that they are. They have studied posing, networked their butts off, gained experience through countless shoots, and worked their way into doing real modeling: getting published, getting paid to walk the runway at fashion weeks, being the go-to model for certain businesses and designers. Sadly, there are so many newbie models ready, and willing, to do any TF shoot opportunity that comes their way that the experienced model who charges for her talent and experience has a harder time getting jobs now. I know that this is just the way things are now. I suppose what I would like to see is that photographers and models be careful about how they represent themselves. For example, if you've never gotten paid to model, and you don't make a living off it, please do not label yourself a professional model. And I've already mentioned my frustration with people labeling themselves "experienced." I think all of us on here are on this site because we appreciate modeling and photography, so let's respect the art forms and skill required of both modeling and photography and give credit to those who deserve it by being careful with labels.
1st ever MARKYMARK Shootout 10 min from San Diego in Events
[img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/130405/09/515eff75d6acc.jpg[/img] Amelia Simone http://www.modelmayhem.com/2277933 Chrissy Marie http://www.modelmayhem.com/1224167 Upcoming Events info… Four models and ten photographers. May 11th 2013 From 1 PM to 5:30 PM Guaranteed (Two) 30 minute one on one model photo shoots with two of the most popular MM nude models in Southern California. Special studio lighting model shoot Special lingerie model shoot 1 hour small group shoot with four models. (** treat our ladies with respect and they may just stay; well…shall we say comfortable for this portion of the shootout Hint, hint guys … that means tips after your one on one will go a long way!! Why is this considered the models choice? Because not all models get fully booked and/or compensated for the one on one sessions. If they don’t get booked for the one on ones, they don’t even earn enough to cover their expenses for going to the shootout. I want to say “THANK YOU MODELS” for all of your hard work! I need ten photographers who would like to reward our hard working models and sign up for this event. All the money collected goes to the models and to cover shootout costs like the studio and food. I don’t own the studio and I don’t make a dime!!! Here is how it works…. 1- The one on ones are up front so your model is fresh, energized and ready to shoot with you. 2- You are guaranteed to get two 30 minute sessions, with two of the most popular MM nude models in Southern California. (Book early to get your time choice) 3- On going through out the afternoon will be 30 minute long small group shoot with a lingerie model. This will occur during one on ones so you have a model to shoot while waiting for your time slot to open. 4- On going through out the afternoon will be 30 minute long lighting and studio workshop with lingerie model provided. This will occur during one on ones so you have a model to shoot while waiting for your time slot to open. 5- Food and drinks provided. 6- Model releases provided. 7- Drawing for one lucky photographer for 3 hours of studio time. **Model not included** 8- One lucky photographer will win a 3 hour sailboat shoot. **Model not included** 9- All this for $150 dollars. * Pay via “PayPal™” Located 10 minutes from down town San Diego: 180 mace street Chula Vista CA 91911
1st ever MARKYMARK Shootout 10 min from San Diego in Events
NEW LOWER PRICE NOW ONLY $100.00 dollars May 11th 2013 From 1 PM to 5:30 PM [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/130405/10/515f0d83a85f6.jpg[/img] Amelia Simone http://www.modelmayhem.com/2277933 Chrissy Marie http://www.modelmayhem.com/1224167 Upcoming Events info… Two models(or four if we get enough participation) and ten photographers. May 11th 2013 From 1 PM to 5:30 PM Guaranteed (Two) 30 minute one on one model photo shoots with two of the most popular MM nude models in Southern California. Special studio lighting model shoot*** Special lingerie model shoot*** 1 hour small group shoot with four models.*** ( treat our ladies with respect and they may just stay; well…shall we say comfortable for this portion of the shootout Hint, hint guys … that means tips after your one on one will go a long way!! Why is this considered the models choice? Because not all models get fully booked and/or compensated for the one on one sessions. If they don’t get booked for the one on ones, they don’t even earn enough to cover their expenses for going to the shootout. I want to say “THANK YOU MODELS” for all of your hard work! I need ten photographers who would like to reward our hard working models and sign up for this event. All the money collected goes to the models and to cover shootout costs like the studio and food. I don’t own the studio and I don’t make a dime!!! Here is how it works…. 1- The one on ones are up front so your model is fresh, energized and ready to shoot with you. 2- You are guaranteed to get two 30 minute sessions, with two of the most popular MM nude models in Southern California. (Book early to get your time choice) 3- On going through out the afternoon will be 30 minute long small group shoot with a lingerie model. This will occur during one on ones so you have a model to shoot while waiting for your time slot to open. 4- On going through out the afternoon will be 30 minute long lighting and studio workshop with lingerie model provided. This will occur during one on ones so you have a model to shoot while waiting for your time slot to open. 5- Food and drinks provided. 6- Model releases provided. 7- Drawing for one lucky photographer for 3 hours of studio time. **Model not included** 8- One lucky photographer will win a 3 hour sailboat shoot. **Model not included** 9- All this for $100 dollars. * Pay via “PayPal™” *** Due to low photographer sign ups and dropping the price we may have to limit the shoot to just Chrissy and Amelia. Located 10 minutes from down town San Diego: 180 mace street Chula Vista CA 91911
Columbia, MD - Artistic Nude Shootout & Workshop in Events
April 21, in Howard County, MD 8:30 am to 6pm www.simplyarlieevents.com Tickets still available and by direct RSVP to lightimagined AT gmail DOT com you can receive the rate of $395 instead of the current $495 through ticket vendors HOW IT WORKS 10 Fine Art Nude Models 50 Artists and Photographers 200 Acre Farm in Howard County with Rural and Wetlands Group Shoot of all 10 models Rotate in groups of 5 to 6 with color-coded for each station tickets Attend (9) 30-minute sessions Burn-It: Fire Spinning Duo Body Painted Living Statues Bathe in Beauty Outdoor Bath and More!!! Creative Workshops Storytelling 101 (2) sessions Strobe Lighting Nature Portraits Communicating with Models Breakfast and Lunch Models Releases Included 8 Raffle Ticket Entries to win (1) 30 minute one-on-one One Fixed Price NonRefundable RAIN or SHINE BUY TICKETS: $495 plus fees through ticket vendors http://naturessummit.brownpapertickets.com/ http://naturessummit.eventbrite.com/ or $395 by April 6 via direct RSVP to lightimagined@gmail.com with RSVP please include "Nature's Summit" in subject header _____________________________________ SCHEDULE SUMMARY 8:15 am Registration and Breakfast 9:00 am Group Shoot of all Models 9:30 am Model Group Shoot I 10:15 am Model Group Shoot II 11:00 am Model Group Shoot III 11:45 am Model Group Shoot IV 12:30 pm Model Group Shoot V 1:00 pm Lunch 2:00 pm Model Group Shoot VI 2:45 pm Model Group Shoot VII 3:30 pm Model Group Shoot VIII 4:15 pm Model Group Shoot IX 5:00 pm Raffle Ticket Selections 5:15 pm Winners One-on-One Sessions 6:00 pm Group Dismissal __________________________________ FEATURED MODELS Alexandria Adair MM# 1816206 Blue River Dream MM # 225550 Dragon (male) MM# 2991267 Emily Camille MM# 180330 Henna MM#1630018 Nia MM# 2149120 Ofelia Linh MM#2979981 Sasha MM# 2930898 Sweet Pea MM#2660567 10th Model Pending Models are subject to change due to unforeseeable circumstances, but will be replaced, if necessary, with suitable replacements.
How To Keep a Photographer Happy? in General Industry
I keep telling myself I’m going to stop posting this to escort threads…but it seems relevant, and it might give you a different perspective on things. There always seem to be about three active threads about escorts – and if nothing else, they tend to make new models paranoid about being in a room with a photographer without a bodyguard present. Kinda like I felt when I was a newspaper photographer, and I was alone in a jail cell, photographing a prisoner who 30 minutes earlier had been convicted of killing a hairdresser by soaking her in hairspray and setting her on fire. (His lawyer, a friend of mine, was just outside the cell – but the cell was locked, and the lawyer didn’t have the key.) Since I started shooting again in September 2011, I’ve done 90+ shoots. The vast majority were without escorts. However, I’ve shot three models who were accompanied by their husbands. No problems. One of them styles his wife’s wardrobe, and he’s very good at it. Another was learning to do his wife’s makeup, because he wanted to be involved in the modeling aspect of her life. Both were very helpful, both are aspiring photographers, and both have become good friends. I’ve shot three models who were accompanied by fiancés. No problems. Also one who was accompanied by her mom, another by her uncle, one by a male friend/driver (the model is legally blind and can’t drive), one by her husband's best friend, one by a Lesbian lover, one by a sorority sister and another by a female friend. No problems. Also, I’ve had three shoots where the models were accompanied by boyfriends. Also one accompanied by a manager, who apparently is also her boyfriend. Nothing but problems. While the models always say they are escorted because of concerns for their safety, and the escorts will remain in the background and not interfere with the shoot, there is a certain type of boyfriend who is insecure and tries to control every aspect of his girlfriend’s life. Not surprisingly, this type seems to feel the need to be present whenever the model has a shoot. This thread, which was begun by a model, seems to represent a situation in which the boyfriend was the escort for the boyfriend’s benefit, not the model’s: http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?threa … 995&page=1 The model who was accompanied by her manager came into the studio pulling two rolling suitcases full of wardrobe. (Well, he did hold the door open for her.) Each time we put together an outfit we liked, he didn’t like it. The problems were minimal. We just ignored him. The other three boyfriends ended up yelling at the models for one reason or another. One model went to the ladies’ room in tears, and the shoot ended. Another walked out to her car in tears and drove off – leaving her boyfriend stranded at the studio. The other model stood her ground. They yelled at each other for about 20 minutes, and then the shoot resumed – but it wasn’t very productive. In one of those cases, a $1,250 lens was missing at the end of the shoot. It turned up later in a corner of the studio, 20+ feet from where I had my camera bag. I didn't take it out of my camera bag. I didn't put it there, and there were only two other people in the studio. The third model emailed me a few weeks ago and said she has dumped her boyfriend, and she’d like to do another shoot – as soon as she loses the 10-15 pounds she added as a result of the stress of that relationship. That’s just my experience. I know other photographers who have similar stories. A few days ago I told a model (who wants to bring a female friend when we shoot) that she could even bring her boyfriend if she wants. I know her well enough to know that she wouldn’t put up with that kind of crap. I never tell a model that she can’t bring an escort. But if it turns out that the boyfriend is the escort, I stop and think about how much I want to shoot with the model. Then I’ll either cancel the shoot or take my chances. Somewhere on MM, there’s probably a photographer who has done three shoots with husbands as escorts and has had bad experiences with all three – but I don’t know who it is. That photographer might have no hesitation about boyfriends – but cringes at the thought of having a husband as an escort. I can only go by my experiences, because they are my only frame of reference.
Columbia, MD - Artistic Nude Shootout & Workshop in Events
www.simplyarlieevents.com offers a lot of information, but briefly: HOW IT WORKS 10 Fine Art Nude Models 50 Artists and Photographers 200 Acre Farm in Howard County with Rural and Wetlands Group Shoot of all 10 models Rotate in groups of 5 to 6 with color-coded for each station tickets Attend (9) 30-minute sessions Burn-It: Fire Spinning Duo Body Painted Living Statues Bathe in Beauty Outdoor Bath and More!!! Creative Workshops Storytelling 101 (2) sessions Strobe Lighting Nature Portraits Communicating with Models Breakfast and Lunch Models Releases Included 8 Raffle Ticket Entries to win (1) 30 minute one-on-one One Fixed Price NonRefundable RAIN or SHINE BUY TICKETS: http://naturessummit.brownpapertickets.com/ http://naturessummit.eventbrite.com/ or direct RSVP to lightimagined@gmail.com with RSVP please include "Nature's Summit" in subject header SCHEDULE SUMMARY 8:15 am Registration and Breakfast 9:00 am Group Shoot of all Models 9:30 am Model Group Shoot I 10:15 am Model Group Shoot II 11:00 am Model Group Shoot III 11:45 am Model Group Shoot IV 12:30 pm Model Group Shoot V 1:00 pm Lunch 2:00 pm Model Group Shoot VI 2:45 pm Model Group Shoot VII 3:30 pm Model Group Shoot VIII 4:15 pm Model Group Shoot IX 5:00 pm Raffle Ticket Selections 5:15 pm Winners One-on-One Sessions 6:00 pm Group Dismissal FEATURED MODELS Alexandria Adair MM# 1816206 Blue River Dream MM # 225550 Dragon (male) MM# 2991267 Emily Camille MM# 180330 Henna MM#1630018 Nia MM# 2149120 Ofelia Linh MM#2979981 Sasha MM# 2930898 Sweet Pea MM#2660567 10th Model Pending Models are subject to change due to unforeseeable circumstances, but will be replaced, if necessary, with suitable replacements.
Posing With Another Model in Model Colloquy
As a photographer, I’ve learned that it pays to slow down the pace of a shoot when there are multiple models. With two models there’s twice as much for me to watch for. Also, usually I need to give more direction with regard to poses and expressions when there are two or more models. While each model may have a terrific pose, the poses should also be compatible. Poses that mimic each other (to some extent) and have similar lines help to tie the models together visually, whether they have eye contact with each other or not. Some models have a tendency to play to the camera. When there are two models, the models should be interacting with each other more than with the camera – especially if the photos are to depict or imply some romantic involvement between the models. Not necessarily in a fashion or themed photo. Wardrobe, accessories, makeup and hair styles (and even nails) should be compatible. For example, last Saturday I did a shoot with two models. One was wearing pants with wide black and white stripes and a black top. The other wore a dress with a black-and-white checkerboard pattern. [img]http://imageshack.us/a/img94/1396/1303090421temp500.jpg[/img] Unretouched, but you get the idea. Note the similarity of the models' hair styles and makeup (including the treatment of the eyes), as well as the angles of their heads and the angles formed by their arms. April, the model with the striped dress, had nails with a checkerboard pattern. Sierra, the model with the checkerboard dress, had black-and-white striped nails. [img]http://imageshack.us/a/img404/9004/1303090421atemp500.jpg[/img] Even the models' last names rhyme. Berry and Perry. You can't make this stuff up. As a general rule (yes, there are exceptions), if the models are not looking each other, they should be looking in the same direction – better yet, at the same spot. At one point I told both models to look at the stylist’s nose. The models' expressions should be compatible and tell the same story – even if it's two sides of the same story. Someone has to coordinate the models' poses and expressions (and of course wardrobe, makeup and hair). These things don't just happen.
Things that models hate.... in General Industry
Really? Its not JUST my view if other people agree with me, and its not JUST a view from a model if other photographers agree with me, and youre assuming that all I do is model/take into account a models interests, which isnt a fair or correct assumption. Of course I am. Unfortunately, a person doesnt shoot 100% perfectly 100% of the time. On occasion what we see in a persons portfolio and what we get (even if we specify that we want exactly whats in the portfolio) are different. Every model also doesnt look/photograph the same, or have the same portfolio needs. What works for model A isnt inherently the perfect fit for model B. Again, this is presuming that a photographer doing what THEY want/need is all the time and effort they need to put forth to make a Trade shoot sufficient, and if the models needs are somewhere outside the scope of what the photographer needs, then the model has to "pay extra". Thats not what trade is for. Trade is mutually beneficial. If you feel like youve gotta go too far out of you way to sufficiently satisfy the other party, then charge them from the get-go, its obviously not a trade shoot to you. Some stuff I dont feel like addressing I never said there was a photo that was good for a model but not good for a photographer. What I meant by "model images" and "photographer images" is that there are images that better showcase a models abilities, and photos that are more geared to showcasing the photographer. For example, I did several series of double-exposures [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/120531/01/4fc732a6b9047_m.jpg[/img] Really cool for me, but pretty worthless to the models in terms of showing what they look like or their modelling abilities because, frankly half their bodies/faces arent even visible in most of the shots. Thats a photographer photo, other photographers think its neat, other models dont look at it and go "oh god I need THAT for my port!" Location shots like this one http://www.modelmayhem.com/portfolio/pic/11340374 18+ are "photographer photos" While the model can say "I did this super cool shoot in a great location" its not actually useful for her portfolio because it doesnt do anything to showcase HER, you can barely even see her. Models may like the way they look and want to do them for the "sake of art" or the "experience" or to have something pretty or whatever, but they rarely do them to actually enhance their own portfolios. On the flipside, people like shane (the photographer above) have no use for things like headshots, which a model DOES need. Shots like this : (still using shanes work) http://www.modelmayhem.com/portfolio/pic/263528#263528 are a decent medium. Cool location for him, and a photo where the model is actually big enough to actually make out WHO it is for her. He obviously felt both photos were up to snuff enough for him to release them, but one is FAR more useful to a model than the other, while both satisfy him. Nobody is asking a photographer to release photos they dont LIKE or feel arent their best. Theyre simply saying that sometimes what a photographer picks only works BEST for THEM, not BOTH parties, when there often ARE images that are suitable for both that get skipped over. And some photographers pick horrible images too, And sometimes the photographer ISNT handling ALL the details. I know what you're personally used to but thats not how everyone works, especially not here. Obviously. I dont know anyone who picks shitty photographers on purpose.
Things that photographer's Hate.... in General Industry
You have a conflation of past (i.e. "brick and mortar") modeling & photography with new practices arising out of web-based modeling & photography and the two often don't jive. When that happens, weird stuff occurs. Models, generally speaking, are not the clients of photographers. Sure, there have always been photographers that did "portfolio development" for girls who dreamed of becoming a model, but they were usually at the lower end of the scale - as were the girls. If they were general family portrait studios, they generally didn't even charge that much for it as most aspiring models don't have much money (and most really ambitious aspiring models had other ways of getting the photos for free and often did). Photographers, generally speaking, are not the clients of models. Sure, for certain art projects one would pay a model, especially for painters as the model would be required to sit for long periods of time - but the rates here were typically a low hourly. Photographers with a solid history behind them, almost never paid for art models, or, if they did, it was a nominal fee as a token gesture. None of this was because one party was trying to get one over on the other, it's because they understood that they were not each others clients. That's why trade came about. You scratch my back and I'll scratch yours. Often times the photographers and models who did trade were friends, or became friends, and it was generally a fun time. I did this last night with a good friend of mine. It was done so that each party had tools that they could use to entice real clients (you know, the people who pay you to do stuff). The web has changed this dynamic somewhat (or, perhaps better stated, greatly expanded on another old concept - the camera club). "Back in the day" you had local camera clubs and, since they were mostly made up of geeky guys who were into photography, they would often hire girls to pose nude for them. Kind of like the "shootouts" or "workshops" of today. Same thing. These were the GWCs of their time. The web has taken this to a new level and there are many models who make their living off of guys who are willing to pay them (usually because they have nothing else to offer) to pose. God bless those guys - they keep a roof over some of my friends heads! This is surely valid and I have nothing against the practice, but it does butt heads with the afore mentioned model. Again, the same is true with photographers. The idea that photographers are going to make a good living shooting models without an actual client, thereby making the model the client, is a new one as well (and kind of a silly one if you ask me, but my definition of a "good living" may be different from that of others). So there you have it. The first problem is you have two groups of people, each trying to get the other group to pay them because there is no natural client base represented on the site - nor will there ever be due to the site's policies and traditions. The only real COMMERCIAL benefit to a site like this is for producers of adult content, ironically, the one area you supposedly aren't allowed to network for (yet it goes on daily, as it must for a site such as this). The second problem is that these two groups, let's call them old school and new school, don't really seem to understand or appreciate each other. Their philosophies, business practices and even aesthetics just don't jive and that causes it's own friction. If this were REALLY a networking site for models and photographers seeking to work in the commercial world, it would be structured much different. But it isn't - and that's ok - but you can't be surprised when the two worlds collide. If it were a site that was dedicated solely to the hobbyist models and photographers, many of these issues would go away as well, as everyone would just be here to have fun. It's when the two get conflated that we have problems.
Photographer doubling as Model Agent? in General Industry
Those things you've listed are often times dealt with through either good communication between those working together and/or an assistant. I am the "manager" of my photo shoots. Models can invite "mutually approved" guests to our shoots. We communicate as so the model feels safe, and I am secure in trusting that the model will show up. Therefore, it's extremely rare that I've had any problems with models flaking or bringing uninvited guests. Many of the models I shoot with have brought people for me to meet, yet I have never met a "model manager" before, and I have never been asked by a model to have her "manager" attend a shoot. It's because I manage the shoots just fine without one. An assistant on the other hand ... is different! Other things I do might be to hire a MUA, or I might provide transportation by driving the model myself. Food and drink are often provided by me personally. I don't allow smoking any where near me, so I wouldn't be taking off to "run" for cigarettes. I do call the model as a courtesy reminder of our shoot. Since most models can speak for themselves, it is not necessary to have a middle person negotiate with me and the models. We are able to communicate quite well without a third person getting involved with what we can do ourselves. When it comes to making sure my models are happy and secure, I go the extra mile! In bold is an interesting contradiction. Youth can be something I may look for, however, I do NOT want "naive" models. As far as "cheap" goes, it's important to me that we negotiate something that equally benefits both the photographer and model. Ask any of the models I've worked with, be it paid gigs, or TFP ... I am generous! (almost to a fault!) Like you, I've not had models appear with "managers" at any of my shoots. I don't live in an area with many model agents or managers. There doesn't seem to be a need for them around here, and like I said before, the only guy I know of who tried to be a "model manger" is homeless. Also like you, I've shot with minors while working directly with parental supervision just fine. I like working with the same models, yet unlike you, I often times pay models, AND hire MUA's. I don't have time to manage anyone's career but my own, nor would I want to! Heck! Even Supermodels don't always need a manger! I read Paulina Porizkova's blog and she told how on her first shoot for the Sports Illustrated swimsuit edition, she arrived by herself and did her own make up. I like her!
Considering moving to professional models in General Industry
I don't disagree with any of that in principle - but your tirade against those of us who successfully use TFP models was a bit much, I thought. There are a number of reasons that I think the OP has had unsatisfactory experiences with TFP models, however I do not think the use of a pay-model will necessarily solve all of those. Getting an experienced professional agency model will guarantee more usable images from a shoot - what it will not do is help the photographer to learn how to control a shoot properly. As long as he can competently use a camera, he will get a number of good images as the model runs through a set routine of poses that she knows will work. What he won't be able to do is replicate that success with other models as he didn't actually do anything apart from stand there and press the shutter. It's the model's skill that is producing the images, not the photographer's ability to pose the model and direct her. Without examining what he did to make those images, he will be unable to translate that technique to other shoots. As soon as another inexperienced model comes in, he's back to square one, as he has become reliant on the model making all the moves and not directing the action himself. I actually think if you want to improve, you need to use less experienced models as this will force you to examine your technique harder in order to get usable images. Working with TFP models goes a long way towards achieving this - it may take longer to produce the required results, but in the long term it makes you a better photographer. I also shoot corporate headshots and portraits - for money. None of those people are models. I need to take what I learn in the studio shooting models and apply it to shoots with 'civilians' who have no idea how to stand in front of a camera. How would using a professional model who requires no direction help me achieve that? Using a TFP (novice) model teaches me how to direct the shoot and how to make them understand the relationship between lighting and posing. If your only goal is making images for sale, then of course you have to consider all the variables - each shoot needs to see some form of return. But if - as in the OPs case at the moment - you are only shooting to improve your technique, then I think pay-models are a false economy.
not allowing escorts, but how do you trust!? in General Industry
Eliza, I should have ignored you, my head hurts.... So you chose to work with home amateur photographers and then come in here to speak bad about them and their wives. I already made clear that I consider those photographers not as part of "us" so I wonder why models choose to work with them, if they want to build a professional career. O yes wait, you already answered that, "because you needed the money". Well it was your choice then, so stop talking bad about these people unless they did something bad to you. You are turning things completely around; you didn't feel safe working with these guys so you brought a driver (what you call an escort, more headache, why o why?), and from that you conclude that models need to be careful. But in fact you went there unprotected and nothing bad happened, which only confirms that those guys were perfectly safe to work with. Then the perv you worked with and who was in jail for 3 years. So you worked with him and he was creepy to you. Did you report him to the police or did you post a warning about him in here and other modeling sites or did you wait till things got really out of hand? Let's take Mr Fiona Cooper as an example. I've heard so many UK models telling bad stuff about this guy but none of them reported him to the police and most of them will work with him again, because, they "need the money". So much for models' morals. Working with a convicted child molester because they need the money. And then afterwards go online to tell the world what a horrible experience it was. The sad thing is that models do the same about photographers who upset them somehow in a professional way. "The guy wasn't nice to me so let's destroy him". Some models gossip so incredibly much about everything and everyone that it completely ruins their credibility. Also, agencies don't do a lot of research before sending a model to a new photographer. They work very intuitively, and money talks, especially in current hard times. They probably know that photographers who invest hundreds of pounds in a day shooting can't afford to play around and risk having their reputation damaged. There's tons of professional photographers who don't even see the boobs and ass anymore when they're working with nude models, all they think of all day is how to get the shots right. And to me a driver is not an escort. This thread is about escorts attending shoots. No photographer in the world would have a problem with a model being delivered at his front door by a driver. But if you feel unsafe, how is being driven to, and picked up from a shoot going to protect you? Are you trolling? If a model feels unsafe she shouldn't work with that photographer or she should bring an escort who will stay around during the shoot. Some photographers don't mind that, I don't mind it either, just as long as the escort won't be on the set. He can be near the set. But then I wonder what an escort can do if the photographer turns out to be a serial murderer with a gun. A better and safer method is staying in touch with home by texting or phoning once every hour. And I know you were joking about the Flakey Model FB group but the models posting in that group are only harming themselves with their negativity and any model reading there and taking that crap seriously is a model most photographers wouldn't want to work with anyway. "A" models and agency models never read groups like that and forums like this by the way. They don't have time for that because they're either shooting, traveling, spending time with the family or shopping, spending the money they make from modeling.
Concept Development for A Shoot in General Industry
I think you start with the concept. It is your vision and a model's job to interpret it using gesture, expression, and styling - the latter when you don't have a stylist/MUA/wardrobe provider (eg a designer). So generally you will have a theme in mind. Let's say for sake of argument it is the 1950's and you want to evoke that period and you know of a vintage car/plane etc or just some props. Well if you have a team then they can style any model to a fifties look. But without a client who is paying for that and a budget to buy or the creative team track record to allow you to draw on designers and boutiques because of your succes rate at getting editorial published , then you would be best advised if no experience in styling yourself to choose a model who is geared up to it. So you may look at girls who do burlesque or pin up as they'd maybe have extensive wardrobe. Many of us get our work that way. So for example my strong points are I have a good range of high quality lingerie/corsets having been a fit model for a major fashion house specialising in that: so I'd spend a fair bit of money buying the samples etc that I knew were good on me because they'd been fitted to my body. Then I also model for companies who do couture millinery and furs so can get access to those; then I have a range of vintage 80's couture like Mugler and Lillie Rubin myself. So I get chosen as a model because I come with all that and a partner who styles/designs too. Other models may also be MUA's/stylists too so get chosen because of that. Or they may have an extensive range or model for companies who will lend them say couture latex designs if that is your theme. Or you may want to shoot a model with say a horse or a snake : so get a model used to handling them - likelihood is they will have say wardrobe suitable too. This way you can build up a portfolio which looks professionally styled but you are using different models strength to achieve that. Your other option is to work with small designers and stylists and MUA's tf as a team to achive the look and select a model between you looking to do tf too. Harder to organise but not impossible. Or for example if you wanted to do a forties theme and had some props and some ebay clothing from the period and a model then it may be worth paying a stylist £50 to get the make up and victory rolls etc done professionally for authenticity. Then you have local re-enactment groups or theate groups if you wanted historical clothing. Often they are only too pleased to help out. I was employed to be at a vintage car rally but wandering round everybody wanted to offer their vehicles for a backdrop. So style your model or choose one that comes in that genre and attend something like that. So I ended up as I was dressed forties anyway with some nice shots from three different photographers with a 1940's US jeep and a GI's helmet from Saving Private Ryan as props! Or you may want to do a gothic themed shoot at a period building - again often the models that are into that scene will have wardrobe or know where to get it. Or just be bold and pop into your local independent boutiques introduce yourself and say you are doing a shoot for submission to a local magazine using a pro model or two and would they like to lend you some stuff. They will sometimes take a deposit against damage and you'd have to show them some of your work that already has a fashion theme before they'd do that but some are helpful some aren't. You are correct that new models generally won't have such an extensive wardrobe collection or access to it. You may get lucky; but usually models who specialise in a genre do it professionally. If you are beginning in this then it may be worth your while paying such a model so you have images with good styling in your port which then catches the eye of clients. Or if you have a great model but style isn't her strong point employ a pro stylist. Hope that's a bit of a help.
Models who absolutely don't do nudes .... in Model Colloquy
First to answer your question. First look at the model's page. Does she have a page full of credits? Does she have a consistent portfolio. Is it more than OBVIOUS she knows what she's doing? If that is the case, I would not deviate from what she is already doing. But if that's not the case with the model you are trying to work with, just assume that model doesn't know exactly what she is trying to do, even if it says so in her profile. Models think they can rewrite the modeling industry with what they want to do and be successful. The industry is already built, all you have to do is work it to it's entirety. Most models (even photographers) typically don't have a plan. A business plan. THIS IS A BUSINESS! How can you be successful if you don't have a business plan. Or is this just a hobby? So yeah, ask her whatever? But make it consistent with the modeling trends. You would not ask a model who is 5'8" to do a nude shoot, she has a better chance in the fashion industry. You may ask a model who is 5'2" to do a shoot a little more sexier, even nude. (Glamour) That's her market. Now you will always have a large portion of models who say, I'm not doing this, or I'm not doing that. That's on them, move on, but don't be afraid to ask. You got to look at it as if they are not saying no to you, they are saying no to industry standards and trends. The most successful Fashion models are 5'8" and above, AND they relocate to the major fashion markets. The most successful glamour models do nude shoots. THAT'S NOT GOING TO CHANGE. Don't waste your time with hobbyists. Hobbyist think it's their way instead of industry standards and trends. The best models I've worked with are ones who were VERY, VERY, VERY experienced and they usually charge, and brand new models. Everyone in between seems to be still searching!!!! LMAO If you are working with a model (or photographer), and they are not trying to bring in revenue, from either fashion or glamour, or other areas of the industry, they are hobbyists. PS. As many models that I have shoot nude, or who have shot nude with others, I have never heard of a situation where they didn't get a job or got fired because they did a nude shoot. If you are a model, and you are worried what people think, you are in the wrong business. ........don't believe me? Check it out @ www.newmodels.com
Naughty Vixens Entertainment Mar 9, Los Angeles CA in Events
Diana Ochoa in conjunction with GSE Group Shoot Events bring you "Naughty Vixens Entertainment" Event #1 I am happy to announce I'm now the current Lead Talent Coordinator/Host for GSE's All Nude Model Events & We are kicking it off with this event. Hope you can join us. [img]http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/9646/42511147.jpg[/img] Follow us on all of our networks Official Website | Facebook Page | Twitter Page |Meetup Page Video footage of our recent event: www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBgtn4eEoK4 Theme:NUDE & I REPEAT ALL NUDE MODELS When: Saturday March 9th, 2013 from 12:00pm to 7pm Where: TBD # of Models: 15+ NUDE MODELS (Models will be posted accordingly booked) Food: Food & drinks will be provided Meet & Greet: 12pm to 12:30pm Group Shoot: 12:30pm to 2:30pm Mini Break: 2:30pm to 2:45pm Private 1:1's: 2:45pm to 7pm Photographer Cost:$50 Early Bird Special ($75.00 Normal Price starting February 1st, 2013 ) Book your own 1:1's with the model directly ~ (Pre-booking is strongly encouraged) Model Release agreements will be provided No Boyfriend/Assistants (unless they pay the $100 entry fee) Refund Policy: No refunds. If you can't attend, we will credit your payment to the next event. P.S. Before I get asked and any confusion. Models are NOT going to be shooting topless or nude within the groupshoot time portion. They are and will ALL be available for NUDES within their 1on1's Button To Register [img]http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm174/imageusa/misc/paypal_buynow.jpg[/img] 2:1 Photographer to Model Ratio Photographer/Model Rotation to assure equal time You may bring 2 strobes or your Speedlights for the indoor shoots Outside the residency, natural light, etc Model Info: Free admission Must participate in group shoot in order to sell 1:1's Must pose swimwear or lingerie in group shoot You may sell model releases between $10 & $20 Set your rates for 1:1 shoots & release agreements with the photographer Model Release agreements will be provided No escorts (unless they pay the photographer fee) Models or Photographers with any questions, please email me @ diana.ochoa_07@yahoo.com or Arthur @ Arthur@groupshootevents.com LOCATION IMAGES WILL BE POSTED SOON MODEL LINEUP Yours Truly Diana Ochoa [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/120912/19/5051479966991.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:45-6:15 pm 6) 6:30-7:00 pm MODELS WILL BE ADDED SHORTLY MODELS INTERESTED IN ATTENDING LET US KNOW
Naughty Vixens Entertainment Mar 9, Los Angeles CA in Events
Amelia Simone in conjunction with GSE Group Shoot Events bring you "Naughty Vixens Entertainment" Event #1 I'm happy to announce I'm now the current Lead Talent Coordinator/Host for GSE Nude Model Events & We are kicking it off with this event. Hope you can join us. [img]http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/9646/42511147.jpg[/img] Follow us on all of our networks Official Website | Facebook Page | Twitter Page |Meetup Page Video footage of our recent event: www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBgtn4eEoK4 Theme:NUDE & I REPEAT ALL NUDE MODELS When: Saturday March 9th, 2013 from 12:00pm to 7pm Where: TBD # of Models: 15+ NUDE MODELS (Models will be posted accordingly booked) Food: Food & drinks will be provided Meet & Greet: 12pm to 12:30pm Group Shoot: 12:30pm to 2:30pm Mini Break: 2:30pm to 2:45pm Private 1:1's: 2:45pm to 7pm Photographer Cost:$50 Early Bird Special ($75.00 Normal Price starting February 15th, 2013 ) Book your own 1:1's with the model directly ~ (Pre-booking is strongly encouraged) Model Release agreements will be provided No Boyfriend/Assistants (unless they pay the $100 entry fee) Refund Policy: No refunds. If you can't attend, we will credit your payment to the next event. P.S. Before I get asked and any confusion. Models are NOT going to be shooting topless or nude within the groupshoot time portion. They are and will ALL be available for NUDES within their 1on1's Button To Register [img]http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm174/imageusa/misc/paypal_buynow.jpg[/img] 2:1 Photographer to Model Ratio Photographer/Model Rotation to assure equal time You may bring 2 strobes or your Speedlights for the indoor shoots Outside the residency, natural light, etc Model Info: Free admission Must participate in group shoot in order to sell 1:1's Must pose swimwear or lingerie in group shoot You may sell model releases between $10 & $20 Set your rates for 1:1 shoots & release agreements with the photographer Model Release agreements will be provided No escorts (unless they pay the photographer fee) Models or Photographers with any questions, please email me @ mdmamelia@gmail.com@gmail.com or Arthur @ Arthur@groupshootevents.com LOCATION IMAGES WILL BE POSTED SOON MODEL LINEUP Yours Truly Amelia Simone [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/110627/15/4e09034b098c7.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:45-6:15 pm 6) 6:30-7:00 pm MODELS WILL BE ADDED SHORTLY MODELS INTERESTED IN ATTENDING LET US KNOW
Moulin Rouge Theme Shoot So Cal 3/2/13 Costa Mesa in Events
Imagine yourself transported back to Paris late 1800s where you see girls frenzied with a delirium of feathers, vulgar painted lips, and eyelashes of black and blue. How can you miss the cancan girls with nude feet, thighs, arms, and breasts were being flung from bloody-red foam of translucent clothes. [img]http://photos4.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/7/1/5/e/event_198329022.jpeg[/img] The Moulin Rouge Shoot is that kind of shoot you don't want to miss out on! This isn't your normal group shoot! We're excited to transport you back in time for this AWESOME Group Shoot! [img]http://photos3.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/a/0/0/c/event_198340972.jpeg[/img] As many of you know the beautiful model Nicole Reckers, will be our spokes model for this awesome event that she'll kick up in style! She's been featured as a Hankook Umbrella Girl and has been in many shows such as: Formula Drift, Spocom, RPM, Remix, SEMA, Redline Time Attack. [img]http://photos1.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/2/9/0/6/event_198610502.jpeg[/img][img]http://photos2.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/2/9/e/c/event_198610732.jpeg[/img] Check out our promotional video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIk3YfffRiI If you love the Moulin Rogue movie, you have to attend this shoot. The Burlesque outfits will be provided by fashion designer Cheri Chagollan custom made outfits for each of the models which means you'll capture that 1800s magical photos just like the movie. [img]http://photos2.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/a/4/e/4/event_198342212.jpeg[/img] This wonderful event will be shot on a killer location: Shark Club It's OC most happening night club and we have reserve the whole venue just for this special photo shoot for you. [img]http://photos1.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/a/5/8/e/event_198342382.jpeg[/img] We just finished a group shoot last month, if you missed that one, you don't want to miss this photo shoot! Live Music to kick up this photo shoot!!! [img]http://photos3.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/a/8/b/8/event_201223192.jpeg[/img] How many times have you gone to a shoot where everything is quiet and wished there was music to motivate you and more importantly the model?!?! As you know in our photo shoot, we always have music, but this time we have DJ BlackOUT spinning hip hop and dance music which means the models will be moving to the groove with high energy for that magical shot that you wanted! Don't miss out! Excellent food selection, not your average low cost snacks as some events offer! [img]http://photos2.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/e/a/3/0/event_198539952.jpeg[/img] We have hired OC premium food truck Kogi BBQ! Yes, it's include with the price of admission. They are not just another over priced food truck, but their tacos and short rib burritos is to die for! [img]http://photos4.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/2/8/2/a/event_198610282.jpeg[/img] This photo shoot is open to photographers of all levels, beginners to advanced, though you must be over 18 years of age. We’ll start off meeting the beautiful models, shooting in groups with boudoir sets, then you can shoot with the model of your choice with the private one-on-one to truly enjoy the fine art of boudoir photography. First-come, first serve! Sign up NOW! Limited in size! As many of you have attended our previous group shoot, Wang (host) and his Dream Team Members will assist any photographer to get that perfect shot! He will be around to help with getting proper exposure, pose the models, reconfigure the lights...etc. During this shoot, Wang will give an introduction 30 minutes to studio lighting to anyone who wish to learn more about the modifiers and more importantly, how to setup the lights for the shot. Bring Your Camera and Get Ready To Shoot! Capacity is limited, Don't miss out. [img]http://photos3.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/3/e/event_198540062.jpeg[/img] The group shoot will start promptly at 11am with a full line up of 15 beautiful models (models will be there on time and ready), and we'll break for lunch at 1:30 pm which means you'll have plenty of time to shoot the models as they rotate through the awesome locations. The private one-on-one will start at 2pm for half and hour with 10 minutes break which you can take a breather or use the time to setup the lighting for you next private shoot. Private Session starting: 2:00pm-2:30 pm 2:40pm-3:10 pm 3:20pm-3:50pm 4:00pm-4:30pm 4:40pm-5:10pm Details: Theme: Moulin Rouge Date: Saturday March 2nd Time: 10:00 am to 5:10pm. At 10:30 to 11am, Wang will have an intro to studio lighting workshop specific to shooting the Moulin Rouge theme (Limit to 10 people signup. First come first serve). The main group shoot event is from 10:30am to 1:30pm. Kogi BBQ Lunch is served from 11:00am to 2:00pm. From 2-5:10pm you have an opportunity to shoot with the beautiful model of your choice for 1-on-1 private sessions at 1/2 hour increments. Workshop with Wang on studio lighting (included): from 10:30 - 11am Lunch: Kogi BBQ (includes taco, burrito, drink) Models: 15+ agency approved models Required: DSLR & 1 light (strobe or speedlite), we don't allow umbrella and huge modifiers (this will be enforced) Location: Shark Club Location Photos [img]http://photos4.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/5/4/7/6/event_198501622.jpeg[/img][img]http://photos1.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/5/2/d/2/event_198501202.jpeg[/img] [img]http://photos2.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/5/2/f/a/event_198501242.jpeg[/img] [img]http://photos1.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/5/4/4/4/event_198501572.jpeg[/img] We have a full line up of beautiful HOT models not only for group shoot but also the private 1-on1 where your photos will be special to you only! Featured Spokes Model - Nicole Reckers [img]http://photos3.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/d/6/4/e/event_198534862.jpeg[/img] Featured Agency Models - CONFIRMED! Carol Seleme - Published [img]http://photos4.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/d/8/4/c/event_198535372.jpeg[/img] Siray [img]http://photos4.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/9/5/9/4/event_177818292.jpeg[/img] Veronica LaVery [img]http://photos3.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/6/8/e/e/event_200786862.jpeg[/img] Cindy Garcia [img]http://photos3.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/a/0/0/c/event_198340972.jpeg[/img] Lucy O'Doll [img]http://photos1.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/8/3/4/c/event_177993612.jpeg[/img] Amber 18+ http://photos1.meetupstatic.com/photos/ … 39512.jpeg Jeska Marie Claire 18+ http://photos1.meetupstatic.com/photos/ … 31542.jpeg Dolly [img]http://photos3.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/c/e/1/0/event_200332752.jpeg[/img] Amanda [img]http://photos3.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/d/c/2/a/event_200336362.jpeg[/img] Audrey [img]http://photos2.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/9/6/f/2/event_163658642.jpeg[/img] Monique Marijeta [img]http://photos2.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/d/b/b/2/event_198536242.jpeg[/img] Li Zheng [img]http://photos3.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/3/4/7/8/event_140533432.jpeg[/img] Jessee [img]http://photos2.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/9/0/d/a/event_109237082.jpeg[/img] Kelsie Matthews [img]http://photos4.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/d/c/0/2/event_202376322.jpeg[/img] Brittani Paige [img]http://photos1.meetupstatic.com/photos/event/d/b/0/8/event_202376072.jpeg[/img] Casting last few models and once they are confirmed, the photos of them will be posted. Pre-booking is highly encouraged because these models will be booked as they are very popular with most photographers. Don't miss out and sign up NOW before it's all gone! Cost $120 $20 Deposit and $100 due at the door. To Sign Up Either Pre-Pay the entire amount at http://www.meetup.com/SoCal-Fashion-and … 101034702/ Or Private Message me to do a deposit. Non-Refundable Deposit.
why do girls give up on modeling ? in General Industry
I was thinking the same but that sums it up better than I could. By many models I am assuming the op is talking about the new models that come on to MM and don't stick around. In that case yes it is probably true that their expectations of gaining paid work here are too high so they lose interest when the offers don't flood in. But there are probably also hundreds of photographers who have 'dropped out' of the site when that happened too; or stayed around being grumpy. The site is useful for networking but photographic modelling usually only accounts for a fraction of paid work and at some stage people have to make a living. Again the same goes for photographers - hence they end up photographing products weddings or celebs whatever to pay the bills. So the majority of photographers here are only actually shooting models part of the time in their spare time just like many of the models are doing it part time. Likewise models often do other kinds of modelling work - promo, art, fit etc which pay better and it's more reliable and nobody ever asks you to do TF. So just because models may not be 'active' on MM doesn't mean they aren't in modelling. A false assumption: often the most inactive profiles are the most succesful models who end up agency signed etc. so don't bother so much here. Or they simply pursue another career which does take off. In most professions the older one gets and more experienced one becomes the better the prospects and pay, or avenues that open up in other ways that provide fulfilment. Often in modelling naturally at some point age kicks in and the demand will be less as younger women are generally more sought after (often with little experience). No value judgement that's the way it is: shelf life. So when I started modelling at the relatively old age of 26 and took up a well paid position, I nevertheless gave my main modelling gig up after a few years to pursue an academic career. That doesn't mean I gave up on modelling because I was no good or it didn't live up to expectations - it just means that I only ever saw it as a temporary state of affairs...an interesting diversion. I always aimed long term for a geographical related career so took up a doctorate as soon as funding became available. I am sure many models are the same just seeing modelling as a side career to their main and when opportunities arise in those fields they leave modelling behind or do it part time. Rather like sports people can't continue past a certain age. They may become coaches teachers etc but likewise many models take up photography themselves or become MUA's, designers, actresses etc. hence staying in a smiliar field. So I think the op should consider that too.
TF feels more like a favor? in General Industry
When I schedule a shoot with a model, I spend a lot of time looking at images that they have done. From a fine art side of things, it's not hard to figure out how good or experienced a model is if they have a fairly comprehensive portfolio. Whether I'm looking at paying a model or working TFP is determined by what obvious experience level she has with fine art. A model who has done nothing but glamour, no matter how beautiful she may be, may not really fit into my work plan, may not have the type of experience that will benefit me, and is not likely to get an offer for pay from me. It's always great to work with models who are real good at fine art posing and also really understand and appreciate concepts of composition, balance, light/shadow, etc. Yay - you seem to fit into that very small group of models and you are few and far between. I have worked with a couple of models who really surprised me with that level of appreciation of art that wasn't necessarily apparent in their portfolio. As you mentioned, a good photographer can many times work with a very inexperienced model and turn out great work. I think it's much more likely for that to happen than a very inexperienced photographer producing great photographs just because they are working with a great model - but it can happen. I also think it might be more likely to happen with fine art work than fashion work. With fine art, the process is normally very slow and calculated for each image and directing a model I would think be much easier. While I'm not a fashion photographer, I would think that it might be more difficult to produce real high end images with an inexprienced model. I started out my work by paying very expereinced models and it really paid off. My thought at that time was that I needed all the help I could get. I think the biggest benefit in a beginning photographer working with a very experienced model is not that it increases their chances of getting good images, it is what they can learn from the model. Experienced models like yourself have a lot more to offer lesser experiened photographers than they realize. Most models on MM are only in it for the money and thrive on the "you are so beautiful" acknowlegements that comes with photo sessions. I think it's great that there are some of you out there who really enjoy/understand/appreciate the artistic process that much and consider TFP sessions occasionally just for the fun of it. Now - regarding those "less talented" photographers who throw in props just to make things interesting. I have to admit that I fit that catagory some times. As others have said, the creative process is some what hit and miss, and many times the idea I have in my head even may look good to my eyes when I pose a model, but fails miserably in print. I can't tell you how many times I have looked at a final image and said to myself "What was I thinking"? You also have to acknowledge that there are lot of so called photographers on MM who really don't have much artistic talent. BTW - do you ever make it out to the Coachella Valley? It might be fun to work together sometime.
3/23/2013 - Fresno/Clovis, CA - Spring Fever 4 in Events
This event is only open to MM members. You must have an active MM account in order to attend. It does not require a formal invitation. If you plan to attend, you must RSVP via a PM to me in advance Date: March 23, 2013 Time: 9:00-10:00 - Registration 10:00-7:30 - Shooting You do not have to be there for the whole time. Come and go as you must. Naturally, the longer you are there, the more time you'll have to create. There are two additional optional events. 9:00-9:45 - I will be offering an ad hoc how to get the best shots out of this location tour. It is for everyone that wants tips - we'll talk about lighting, focal lengths, color balance, locations, and whatever else you want to talk about. 7:30 to whenever - We'll be gathering at Me-N-Eds for pizza, drink and networking. You pay for you. Me-N-Ed's is located here" 5374 West Spruce Avenue Fresno, CA 93722 Cost: You have to get there and you should get home on your own. How you do that is up to you. No cash should change hands before, during or after the event. The only exception is that models are allowed to SELL a FULL Release. Models must sign a promotional release. This is TRADE. Photographers owe every model they shoot ONE image per look. There will be a standard spring fever release available at sign in. This release will allow you to use images only for self promotion. I am not providing anything. Bring snacks so you can shoot through "meals". Bring fluids so you have something to drink. I will have water for those that forget. Location: There really is no physical address for an open field beside a river. This is the closest real address you can use: 6115 Bluff Avenue Fresno, CA. Here are simple directions. From the intersection of Herndon and Milburn, head North. (From CA-99 that is a Left - From CA-41 that is a Right) Turn Left on Alluvial. Go straight through two 4-way stops signs. Alluvial will vear Right twice. About midway through the second vear turn Left There is a forced Right. Followed by an immediate Left. Park someplace legal. Do not block driveways or fire hydrants and be respectful of property owners. Than follow the concrete path to the fence. Last year, someone blocked the fire entrance and was ticketed. Find the gap in the fence and hike down. Congratulations, you're at Spring Fever 3. Look for a collection of portable shade makers by one of the RR trestles. That is "base". Go there to sign in, get your gear/wardrobe situated and get busy. I'll be wearing a hideous tie dye t-shirt that I am pretty sure nobody else has IF you need me. RSVP: Please tell me that you're coming. I will start four follow up replys so everyone knows who is coming. I will keep it updated until midnight the night before. If something comes up - PLEASE - tell me so I can remove you from the list. You DO NOT want to miss this. Useful Information: This is NOT a commercial shoot. This is a bunch of talented people that just happen to be at the same place at the same time because they are passionate about being involved in the creation of great images. If you're asked what is going on by somebody - Do not say anything that implies professional or commercial. We're just playing. ;-) To that point, this is not my event, it is yours. Spring Fever 4 will be what the community puts into it. It needs your help. This is nature. There are things that could hurt you, bite or kill you. Be careful. Despite the forecast, bring something to keep your stuff dry with. Maybe bring a change of clothes and towels just in case you get wet. Even the models should bring sturdy shoes to get around in and than change into shoot shoes when they get to a spot. It may be cool. Bring a light jacket, sweatshirt etc. Please treat everyone with respect. Especially, those that live nearby. It is not uncommon for the neighborhood kids to wander through. If you're shooting anything "controversial" - nudes in particular - but including implied, sheers, lingerie, etc. Be careful you are doing so at your own risk. If there are complaints, our friends may not be nice. Remember, there will be minor models working. Some very talented. The minor models will have parents in attendance. We don't want to scare them off either. Please take out of Spring Fever 4 what you brought in. That may seem obvious, but last year we had lots wardrobe left behind and two trips worth of "trash" hauled up. We're all there for the sole purpose of creating. Help each other whenever possible. Use this time to play. This is the ideal time to try new things and experiment on both sides of the camera. Models should shoot with photographers with styles other than what they are used to just as photographers should shoot models with looks that wouldn't normally shoot. That is how your grow! My personal goal is to shoot every model there. I've been asked about props. You can bring anything LEGAL to the event. The standard I'd use is appropriate for a large group event. I wouldn't bring anything overly valuable, fragile, or that I'd cry to much if it was ruined somehow. I do group shoots often as I happen to love what they offer. I am a shy person. I do not normally walk up to people and introduce myself, etc. If you are like me, PLEASE come out of your shell and act not shy. Open mouths get fed. If you hide, you won't shoot/be shot. You MUST be active. If you're a model, do not let photographers stand around - ask them to shoot you. If you're a photographer, do not let a model stand around - ask them to shoot with you. SHOOT. With trade shoots, time is money. You are there to SHOOT. Networking is nice, but you can't post networking on your portfolio's. If you really like working together - set up other shoots for later. Me N Eds after the shoot = networking time. Photographers: Please respect our models. Do not ask them to shoot anything outside of their comfort levels or do anything that would make them uncomfortable. You owe every model you shoot ONE edited image of every LOOK you shoot. It is going to be great to have ONE place to go for images. It is your responsibility to keep track of who you shoot with. Do not be offended if a model is also keeping track of who shoots her. If a photographer is working with a model, please don't interrupt them. I have no personal issue with people overshooting. You're welcome to shoot with me as long as you don't shoot in front of me (block my shot) or direct my model. Not all photographers are this understanding. If you want to overshoot - ask first. (as the host, I may walk around and overshoot one or two images - usually for background - Deborah Conners (a great friend of mine) is really good at busting me in action). If you need help ask - if you're asked for help - please help. We are there to grow. It may be a little late for this, but if you've been thinking about new gear or renting/borrowing gear. This is THE TIME. Bring all the gear you might want to use. You are responsible for keeping track of it. You can't use it if you didn't bring it. Portable lighting - flash and plenty of batteries would be good. Reflectors are good. Natural light is good. Models: You DO NOT have to do anything you don't want to do. If you feel pushed find me. Two complaints and someone is going home. You should come shoot ready - hair and makeup done. You can change here. There will be a collection of changing booths (private) for you. We'll have ropes you can hang stuff up in under the portable shade. I hope to have hair and makeup available. I will list them below. If you want to use them, set up times and themes in advance. Please keep track of your wardrobe and personal belonging. You are responsible. Models often share wardrobe, please treat other people stuff with respect and return it. I've been asked a lot about wardrobe. The short answer is bring everything. The practical answer is bring everything that you might want to shoot in this location. Bring items that are versatile and have broad use. Your wardrobe should span your comfort level. IE Formal, casual, creative, swimwear, lingerie, etc. EXPERIMENT. Make sure whatever you bring fits you very well and that you're comfortable wearing it. The grass is GREEN the sky is BLUE - some of your wardrobe should compliment those colors. Try for things that contrast - warm color on you against cool colored backgrounds and viceversa. I encourage you to think about ways to dress that will get you noticed. I don't mean sexy, although you can do that too, but rather that takes advantage of where you are. Watch my great friend, Kandi, for an example. Put together looks that the photographers are going to want to capture. Bring something like a robe that you can cover up with quickly if needed. It may be chilly so good warm ups or even a coat might be a good idea. Pace yourself so you stay comfortable. I want models to leave with MANY different images. You control the wardrobe - Work with as many photographers as you can. Budget your time. Try not to be "hogged". 15 minutes is more than enough time to get great shots. Move along. Change your look very often - every 30-60 minutes. We have the full range of models. Some are very experienced to very new. As in very first shoot new. Please support and help each other.
What to expect during a photo shoot in Newbie Forum
I've found that most models like this approach - especially the more experienced models. The ones who like it least are those who have no idea what they want to shoot for their portfolios. It also helps me weed out the models who aren’t serious enough to put forth the small amount of time and effort required to plan a shoot. Once a model has gone through the planning process (and had her preferences and desires incorporated in the shooting plan), the odds are very high that she’ll show up for the shoot – even if she has to drive 3-4 hours in bad weather. Having a clear plan also makes it easier to recruit an MUA/H who will do the shoot for trade. Some models require that the photographer explain exactly what he wants to shoot in the initial email to the model. Most of the time I just ignore that requirement, unless the model would be perfect for one of the 70+ concepts/themes on my to-shoot list – or unless I can get a fairly specific idea of what the model wants to shoot from his/her profile. I assume that, by requesting that information up front, the model is just trying to avoid booking shoots with vague goals that are likely to lead to vague images. By the way, the paragraphs in my first post are included in a lengthy email that I send when asking a model to do a trade shoot. Parts of the email are customized to the model, and parts are basic information that I include each time. I’ve found that it’s better to give a model too much information than too little. >> One thing I recommend for all models (unless their portfolio is as good as it gets and will never need to be updated) is to create a list of photos that’s clearly labeled to show that the photos in it represent looks you want to do. High-quality, distinctive shots with some creativity – not the mundane ones that every model has. It’s a good idea to include both studio and location photos. It’s okay to include some that require remote locations or hard-to-find wardrobe, props, etc. – but it’s also a good idea to include several photos that don’t require any of these. When you see something you like, just add it to the list. Pretty soon it becomes automatic. Not only does having a list make it easier for any photographer who has the sense to look at it to plan a shoot with you. It makes it more likely that the photos you get will be what you want or need. I've been known to contact a model about a shoot mainly because she had a wish list with several looks that I'd like to shoot. << The previous three paragraphs are often included in my initial email to a model as well – particularly if it’s a newer model whose profile is vague about what she wants to shoot and what she would most like to add to her portfolio. In initial contacts with models, I have been known to lift photos directly from the model’s wish list (if she has one), paste them in the email and say something like, “We could check 3-5 photos off your wish list in an afternoon or evening. How ‘bout we start with these?” Nobody bats 1.000 in asking for trade shoots. (Well, maybe some of the superstars like Neil Snape, Philipe, Michael Rosen, John Farrar, Julian Wilde and a handful of others do.) My batting average in asking for trade shoots is about .333 (including with models whose profiles say “paid assignments only”) – which would get me in the Hall of Fame if I were a Major League baseball player who was never suspected of using steroids. While my approach doesn’t work 100% of the time, it works well enough that I could book more trade shoots that I could possibly shoot. It worked too well in September. I ended up shooting 17 models (five or six of them twice) – and I’ve had to cut way back on trade shoots (to about two a month) since then just to catch up on post-processing and get some other things done.
Model's Websites. What's Important? in Model Colloquy
No one replying to this? Ok, well I'll post something I wrote. One warning, it's long! Here you go; What makes a model website great? Models, photographer and webmasters have been trying to create successful paysites of years now! I've been observing this Internet model phenomena since early 2001. Just going through my old favorites list is a reality check of how fickle this 'net modeling business really is! Link after link is a dead one, often after 4 months or less. In my opinion, it is more useful to focus on what causes those few websites to be successful rather than what causes most to fail. There are five keys to having a successful modeling website in my opinion. Those are; Talent, Consistency, Involvement, Business Ethics, and Networking. Those five keys can also be true of models websites that are NOT paysites too! TALENT; Attractiveness is subjective. One can look physically attractive, yet it's not enough if critical areas which make the whole package are lacking. Talent is much more than looking good! Talent means playing up your strongest features and having a knack for getting your personality across in your images, writing, videos, and sometimes in personal appearances. Just looking good does not complete the whole picture. It takes talent to visualize your website and make it something that attracts people to you! That takes talent! Certain "looks" might be more popular, but the people who buy subscriptions to model websites and online publications are very diverse. So there is room for models of many shapes, sizes, ages, and ethnicities. It really depends on imagination and targeting the correct market for ones look. Being able to act, dance or have artistic ability can greatly help a model. It is the combination of ones look, ability, knowledge and creative energy that bring together the talent needed to succeed. CONSISTENCY; Do things in a timely manner. Updates should be done as scheduled on the website. Customer service should also be consistent and timely. Customers do expect things to be there when scheduled or else they may grow impatient and move on. The sets of photos, videos, and any other product offered should be at a certain quality level that customers can expect to be consistent with the website. If quality fluctuates, then the customers will have doubts as to the worth of the site. Certainly the quality should be kept at the highest level of production in which the website production team can stay at. So set a quality level and schedule then stick to it! INVOLVEMENT; Most people who are going to join model websites don't care about the photographer, or the process of creating the content. They are there for the models! Any model website must have involvement from the model to be successful. The more involved the model is in the website, the closer the customers feel to that model. In other words, personality counts! There is no need to give personal information on the website, but having a message board or forum in which the model drops in to post on a regular basis helps. Giving the members some information as to hobbies, likes, and dislikes can also help. Some members would like to send birthday greetings or buy presents. However models do need to take precautions against stalkers or scary obsessive people. Set limits of involvement and stick to it. BUSINESS ETHICS; Run the website like a business! So many websites are started by models, photographers and webmasters with stars in their eyes. They think it's a "get rich quick and easy" sort of scheme, but it's not. They give up after a few months because they didn't realize how much hard work it takes to build and keep a successful website going. Don't outright lie to the customers. They will not be happy about being lied to and will not come back! Don't start in this model website business unless the commitment is strong. It takes commitment and business sense to keep the website going longer than 6 months. If the honesty and commitment are not there, then the business ethics wont be there either. NETWORKING; It is absolutely critical to network and market! It is how the members or fan base is built. Doing banner exchanges with other sites, getting in affiliate programs, and feeding the search engines with meta tags are important to the success of a website. Advertising and person to person promotions are also a part of networking too! It's important to have a business plan on paper or at least in mind with web hosting and billing worked out. The web server and billing are also a component of the networking. Without good hosting, the website might crash or not be online all the time like it should. Without reliable billing, then the money might not be there. It's better to have a business plan that includes the leasing or purchase of servers, but at least get a strong hosting plan. Get a merchant account if possible. Third party billers can be very expensive! Bring this all together with careful planning and that is what makes a successful model paysite! One that can last for years running as a legitimate business! -Patrick Walberg, 7/25/06
Problem with an escort? in Model Colloquy
Last year I had 70+ shoots. There were 14 with escorts – not counting models who are friends and came in pairs. The only problems I had were with boyfriends. First I will not shoot an underage model unless a parent is present. It's a studio rule (and an insurance company rule) that the parent not only be present but sign a release *before* the shoot. I don't seek out shoots with underage models. I shot with one last year with her mom present. Her mom was nice and stayed very much in the background - watching everything but never injecting herself into the shoot. Seven of the shoots involved three husbands as escorts. All three were very congenial. Two of the husbands (six shoots) have been extremely helpful. Both of them are in effect wardrobe stylists for their wives, and one does his wife’s makeup for shoots. In fact, I have been helping one of them learn photography. I have shot his wife four times in the past year. (They live two states away and do other things when they are St. Louis.) Each time he was present, and the first three times he was very quiet. Last weekend I allowed him to shoot three models in another part of the room while I was shooting his wife. (The studio has four camera rooms. This was the second largest.) The third husband was present (along with the model’s mom) for a pregnancy shoot, and he was in some of the photos. Otherwise he sat and watched. One model brought a sorority sister who sat and watched and helped with wardrobe and makeup changes. Another brought her female lover, who was also her transportation. The escort is in the military, and she stayed upstairs in the makeup area and studied for a test during the shoot – then spent 30-40 minutes talking to me after the shoot, to the apparent chagrin of the model. One model, who is a good friend and a full-time professional model and posing coach (who lives three hours from St. Louis) is legally blind and can’t drive. She either travels with another model, or a male friend drives her to her shoots. I believe we shot together seven times last year. Her male friend sits upstairs and reads a book while we shoot. Three of the escorts were boyfriends. Each of them disliked their model/girlfriend’s wardrobe selection at some point during the shoot and ended up screaming at the model. The first two ended the shoots prematurely. The first time the model went up to the dressing room in tears, and they left. The second time the model left in tears, got in her car and drove off – leaving her boyfriend stranded at the studio. The third time the model stood her ground, and she and her boyfriend screamed at each other for about 20 minutes, then the shoot resumed – but it was not very productive. The model emailed me a few weeks ago and said she has broken up with her boyfriend, and he will not be a problem at any future shoots. (She didn’t want him there in the first place.) Of course each model promised me in advance that her boyfriend would quietly observe and would not interfere with the shoot. One model was escorted by her “manager,” who may or may not have been her boyfriend. She came in with two huge rolling garment bags full of clothing. (This was last January, before I began doing wardrobe planning with the model before scheduling a shoot.) It was a simple fashion shoot, and there was no “revealing” wardrobe. But each time we put together an outfit, he found something wrong with it. We ignored him. I had a camera malfunction early in the shoot, which ended the shoot prematurely. Interestingly, each model whose profile she says she is always accompanied by an escort – “no exceptions” – showed up without an escort. Each time a model mentions an escort (especially if it's a boyfriend), I ask myself just how much I want to work with that model. In several cases I just canceled the shoot. Does anyone wonder why?
Models: What am I doing wrong here? in Model Colloquy
My experience has been this. When I was a new photographer on this site very few models were willing to work with me. I shot fashion I shot glamour and I tried to shoot nudes. I worked with any model who would work with me. When my skill improved I realized that the inexperienced models were not improving my portfolio, so I began paying experienced models and art models. These models improved my port and they all taught me something I could take with me for future shoots. I think the key is shoot, shoot ,shoot the more the better. The stronger you get the more offers you will receive. Also find a style, find a genre and find models that fit that for which you are aiming. I am an art nude photographer who shoots fashion from time to time and a few portfolio images for an agency or two. Most models come to me now, and 50% are not on Model Mayhem. I have shot many a models first nudes and some of them have gone on to be experienced and sought after models. I work with a team of models and add one or two a year. This has worked very well for me. I get complements all the time about the models on my team. Three of which work exclusively with me. Look most of the models on MM are not serious about modeling they just want nice pictures for Facebook nd to tell their college classmates they are a models. A quarter of the MM models are opportunists. So that leaves a field of about 25% from which to start with. It like trying to wade through shit to find a diamond. If I write a prospective model and she reads the message but does not reply. I send a message back to ask if they have any interest. If the second message is read and not replied to I delete the request and block them. Yes block them I don't need to be bothered by them ever.
GSE Group Shoot Events January 26, Los Angeles, CA in Events
Begin the 2013 year with 15+ ALL NUDE MODELS EVENT This is the PERFECT event for photographers that love shooting NUDE models [img]http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/9646/42511147.jpg[/img] Follow us on all of our networks Official Website | Facebook Page | Twitter Page |Meetup Page Video footage of our recent event: www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBgtn4eEoK4 Theme:NUDE & I REPEAT ALL NUDE MODELS When: Saturday January 26th, 2013 from 12:00pm to 7pm Where: Industrial Location in Santa Fe Springs, CA # of Models: 15+ NUDE MODELS (Models will be posted accordingly booked) Food: Food & drinks will be provided Meet & Greet: 12pm to 12:30pm Group Shoot: 12:30pm to 2:30pm Mini Break: 2:30pm to 2:45pm Private 1:1's: 2:45pm to 7pm Photographer Cost:$75.00 FULL PRICE EARLY BIRD SPECIAL($100.00 Normal Price starting January 16th, 2013 ) Book your own 1:1's with the model directly ~ (Pre-booking is strongly encouraged) Model Release agreements will be provided No Boyfriend/Assistants (unless they pay the $100 entry fee) Refund Policy: No refunds. If you can't attend, we will credit your payment to the next event. P.S. Before I get asked and any confusion. Models are NOT going to be shooting topless or nude within the groupshoot time portion. They are and will ALL be available for NUDES within their 1on1's Button To Register [img]http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm174/imageusa/misc/paypal_buynow.jpg[/img] 2:1 Model to Photographer Ratio Model/Photographer Rotation to assure equal time You may bring 2 strobes or your Speedlights for the indoor shoots Outside the residency, natural light, etc Model Info: Free admission Must participate in group shoot in order to sell 1:1's Must pose swimwear or lingerie in group shoot You may sell model releases between $10 & $20 Set your rates for 1:1 shoots & release agreements with the photographer Model Release agreements will be provided No escorts (unless they pay the photographer fee) Models or Photographers with any questions, please email me @ Arthur@groupshootevents.com Thread Link to our recent events: http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=866086 (December 7th, 2012) (Sold Out) http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=857859 (October 20th, 2012) (Sold Out) http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=851590 (September 16th, 2012) (Sold Out) http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=845728 (August 11th, 2012) (Sold Out) http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=836372 (June 9th, 2012) (Sold Out) http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=838468 (June 2nd, 2012) (Sold Out) http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=823391 (May 19th 2012) (Sold Out) http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=825913 (April 28th, 2012) (Sold Out) http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=819704 (March 10, 2012) (Sold Out) http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=817306 (February 11, 2012) (Sold Out) [img]http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/6514/lrbeach297fb.jpg[/img] INDUSTRIAL LOCATION IMAGES We have hosted 2 events here in the past and photographers love it capturing edgy unique images [img]http://imageshack.us/a/img338/2503/imag0607n.jpg[/img] [img]http://imageshack.us/a/img685/5007/imag0610t.jpg[/img] [img]http://imageshack.us/a/img51/5342/imag0612f.jpg[/img] [img]http://imageshack.us/a/img337/3117/imag0615m.jpg[/img] [img]http://imageshack.us/a/img833/5552/imag0605b.jpg[/img] [img]http://imageshack.us/a/img542/7875/imag0603f.jpg[/img] [img]http://imageshack.us/a/img853/7514/imag0602f.jpg[/img] [img]http://imageshack.us/a/img132/6492/imag0601.jpg[/img] MODEL LINEUP Miss Nadine [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/121225/13/50da2171b3dde.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:45-6:15 pm 6) 6:30-7:00 pm Miss Emily [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/120918/22/505958fe65274.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:45-6:15 pm 6) 6:30-7:00 pm Miss Franny [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/121205/22/50c0388083d80.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Rates $60 Per Slot) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm ~ Booked 2) 3:30-4:00 pm ~ Booked 3) 4:15-4:45 pm ~ Booked 4) 5:00-5:30 pm ~ Booked 5) 5:45-6:15 pm ~ Available 6) 6:30-7:00 pm ~ Available Miss Liz [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/121027/04/508bca3e7de07.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm ~ Booked 2) 3:30-4:00 pm ~ Booked 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:45-6:15 pm 6) 6:30-7:00 pm Miss Bri [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/121230/11/50e090908e309.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:45-6:15 pm 6) 6:30-7:00 pm Miss Megan [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/121008/21/5073a4d2a400c.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm ~ Booked 4) 5:00-5:30 pm ~ Booked 5) 5:45-6:15 pm 6) 6:30-7:00 pm Miss Mayes [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/111212/01/4ee5c7ef2fc76.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:45-6:15 pm 6) 6:30-7:00 pm Miss Tabitha [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/120806/17/50205d9c5fe53.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:45-6:15 pm 6) 6:30-7:00 pm Miss Noni [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/110502/07/4dbec2e4628c8.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:45-6:15 pm 6) 6:30-7:00 pm Miss Diana [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/120912/19/5051479966991.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:45-6:15 pm 6) 6:30-7:00 pm Miss Amelia [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/110627/15/4e09034b098c7.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:45-6:15 pm 6) 6:30-7:00 pm Miss Ingi [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/120515/22/4fb33c88c0842.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:45-6:15 pm ~ Booked 6) 6:30-7:00 pm ~ Booked Miss Bow [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/110425/22/4db652c50dc86.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:45-6:15 pm 6) 6:30-7:00 pm Miss May [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/121125/23/50b31e37eeaca.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:45-6:15 pm 6) 6:30-7:00 pm Miss Deja [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/120502/19/4fa1ecf4dcfd1.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:45-6:15 pm 6) 6:30-7:00 pm Miss Nordique [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/120509/06/4faa72add8b6a.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:45-6:15 pm 6) 6:30-7:00 pm Miss Jenna [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/121028/20/508dfd8d8f257.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Implied Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:45-6:15 6) 6:30-7:00 pm Miss Korina [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/120129/15/4f25d25597861.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:45-6:15 pm 6) 6:30-7:00 pm Miss Taye [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/121210/15/50c669719f43e.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Rates $55 Per Slot) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:45-6:15 pm 6) 6:30:7:00 Miss Ryles [img]http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/186/rylie.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:45-6:15 pm 6) 6:30-7:00 pm Miss Courtney [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/121119/20/50ab07185c374.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:45-6:15 pm 6) 6:30-7:00 pm Miss Sara [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/120724/19/500f56a36a919.jpg[/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:45-6:15 pm 6) 6:30-7:00 pm MORE MODELS WILL BE ADDED SHORTLY
Talking with model during shoot in Photography Talk
I’m going to clarify what I said earlier. I didn’t mean to imply that you shouldn’t tell the model when she’s doing well. Quite the contrary. Even the most experienced models need feedback to tell them when they’re on the right track and when they need to adjust. But done properly, this is more direction than cheerleading. And a little conversation and nonthreatening (nonsexual) playful banter helps keep things loose. Here are a couple of posts I made (from my other MM account) to a forum thread on directing models a few months ago. Maybe these have some of the information you’re looking for. ~~~~~ Most of the models I work with can pose themselves better than I could pose them – and with more natural results. At the beginning of a shoot, I tell the model the looks, moods, expressions, etc., that I want. I tell her which is the main light and how much freedom of movement she'll have (and again each time I change the lighting). We’ve already discussed the nature of the shoot, looks, moods, etc., by email before the shoot – and exchanged photos that illustrate them. Often I’ll have a number of tearsheets with me at the shoot that show these as well. I also tell the model when I'm shooting full-lengths, 3/4 lengths, waist up, etc. – so she'll know what area her hands need to be in. If I’m shooting from the waist up, I don’t want her hands to be below her waist. If the model gives me the poses and looks I want, I give only minor instructions – as briefly as possible to avoid breaking the flow of the shoot. As often as not, these are things the model would do as well, if she could see herself from the camera position. "Head back." "Chin up." "Eyes toward me." "Right hand above your waist." "Arch your back." "Head slightly to the right." Things like that. From time to time I'll suggest a completely different pose. Same with expressions. "Pouty." "Angry" "Confused." "Fierce." "Vulnerable." "Attitude." "Part your lips." "Stare me down." If I say "that's great" or "let's work with that," it means that I want very small variations in pose for the next several shots. If I say "perfect light," that means I want very little movement in the model's head position for the next several shots. If I'm working with a very experienced model I've worked with before, I may appoint her vice president in charge of posing (inside joke) at the beginning of the shoot – but I still give direction as needed. If it becomes obvious that more direction is required, I give more direction until I have the look I'm going for. But first I want to see what the model can do without detailed direction. Don’t get frustrated if you’re not getting exactly the looks you want. If you get frustrated, the model gets frustrated – and the shoot gets derailed. Just be patient and steer the model in the direction you want her to go. ~~~~~ The best "posing guide" I've seen is actually a DVD for photographers on working with models by Detroit area photographer Mary Duprie. From this DVD, a photographer can learn not only how to direct models – but also how to teach them to pose by what I call "modeling in motion," creating a theoretically infinite number of poses by making small, incremental changes in pose after each shot. Mary also has a two-DVD set for models who don't want to have to find a photographer who has the DVD for photographers. Just Google "Mary Duprie DVD."
Offering critique- whatever I feel like - in Serious Critique
Hello Rachel Reilly - basics - basics - basics More care with exposure values, skin tones, hands cut off in composition, lost opportunities in composition where models are too much in the centre of the frame. http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/12 … d37613.jpg you needed some sort of fill to deal with the shadows and contrast ratio better model direction (the cut off arm disappearing into space) the perspective is jarring - taken from too low a level http://www.modelmayhem.com/portfolio/pic/30711823 composition -hand cut partially off model posing direction - left arm blocking your couture - a huge no-no if you want to do fashion photography model hands curled - you want your model's hands to be almost straight but not stiff, fingers slightly spread, any touching of the skin hair or couture to be "pretend" with no pressure so as not to create distortion. Hands must be *elegant*. http://www.modelmayhem.com/portfolio/pic/30709829 you don't want "disappearing limbs" - cut off hands http://www.modelmayhem.com/portfolio/pic/30709632 http://www.modelmayhem.com/portfolio/pic/30708163 http://www.modelmayhem.com/portfolio/pic/30709688 composition - model too centered in the frame - study up on the golden ratios and golden mean - a slight shift in composition in these images would have improved them dramatically. http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/12 … 3a1ce8.jpg lit from the wrong direction throwing harsh 1/2 arm shadow and your model has brassiere lines on her skin pay attention to direction and quality of light models should immediately remove underwear when showing up on a shoot and put on a seasonally appropriate robe until hair and MUA are done, so as to avoid lines from brassiere and panty http://www.modelmayhem.com/portfolio/pic/30332068 posture - elegant posture is your friend. Thereagain this is the photographer's responsibility. partially cut off hand in your composition In sum - when shooting out of doors, either shoot very early or late in the day, or be prepared to scrim (block or filter) harsh sunlight or to fill with flash or strobe or reflector to soften shadows learn the basic rules of composition and perspective - don't be content with the rule of thirds (though you are for the most part not following that either) - study the golden mean and golden ratios and apply them. When you are so deeply familiar with them and their use that you understand them completely, you may choose to "break" these rules to good effect. You and I both are a long way from that point. Keep an eye on what is going on in your entire frame - you are cutting off bits of hands etc. pay attention to perspective - some of your standing model shots would have given your model more length if shot from a slightly lower perspective, some of your tight shots were shot from too low a perspective. Generally, standing models should be shot from a level between the hip and knee, unless you are going for a higher point of view, in which case be careful not to foreshorten your model. 1/2 and head and shoulders shots need to be shot from nearly level, or from slightly above - not too much deviation- if as you say in your profile your goal is to shoot editorial work. pay attention to direction and quality of light and pay careful attention to shadowing especially on the model or couture. model preparation - avoid underwear lines model direction - learn the basics of model posing - don't be so focused on your concept or style or whatever that you forget that model posing makes or breaks a shot - and it is ultimately the photographer's job to pay attention to and direct your models. contrast ratios - hard light or steep contrast ratios are tools for the extremely skilled and best avoided until more basics are mastered. That is more than enough to keep you busy for a while - please do feel free to check back in with me in the future if you want an updated private critique. I would be happy to help if I can. After all, we're almost neighbors
7 Day Criuse/Photoshoot to Cabo/PV 10/6/2013 in Events
The CARNIVAL MIRACLE [img]http://www.photodays.info/links/Miracle.jpg[/img] CRUISE SCHEDULE: departs Day Date Location Arrive Depart Sun Oct 6 Long Beach, CA 4:30pm Mon Oct 7 At Sea Tue Oct 8 Cabo San Lucas 9:30am 6:00pm Wed Oct 9 Cabo San Lucas 7:00am 4:00pm Thu Oct 10 Puerta Vallarta 9:00am 9:00pm Fri Oct 11 At Sea Sat Oct 12 At Sea Sun Oct 13 Long Beach, CA 9:00am Pier address 231 Windsor Way, Long Beach, CA 90802 PRICE INFORMATION: If you are thinking of going on a cruise and price is a concern call Carnival and verify the prices quoted anywhere. Price includes all food & lodging on the cruise ship. Prices listed are per person based on double occupancy as of 11/26/2012 The cost for this complete cruise has been discounted from $1804. For an inside room to $494. Window cabins current price $669. Balcony cabins current price $684. Prices for 3 or 4 people per room are lower. INTERESTED MODELS: This is intended as a TF event. The cruise for the models is FREE! Models attending this cruiseboat shoot receive a FREE cruise ticket from their sponsoring photographer. Models are only obligated for the 5 organized/scheduled shoots. After that any model is free to shoot or not with anyone they like at anytime. The models compensation for the entire 7 days is the FREE cruise and vacation. Do not come on this cruise with the intention of making money from paid one on one shoots, as you will be disappointed. You are required to sign a release for all images shot at the group shoots to any photographer who requests one. What to bring for shooting. Beach in Mexico, Pool in Mexico and anything YOU want pictures in on board the ship. Photographers will be sharing cabins with other photographers, models with models, unless you make other arrangements. INTERESTED PHOTOGRAPHERS: This is intended as a TF event. Unlike most cruise ship photoshoots, this event provides ZERO profit to the promotor. Each photographer attending this cruiseshoot MUST also purchase a cruise ship ticket for the model of his/her choice. Photographers attending the cruiseshoot MUST also allow other photographers to shoot the model that they bring. Every photographer will have shooting access to all models attending. You are required to provide copies of all edited images from the group shoots to the models, unless other arrangements are made. Full resolution non-watermarked images from the group shoots, suitable for printing, shall be provided upon request by the model. By attending this event, you grant permission for the models to use all provided images from the group shoots for self promotion. I will add your name to the confirmed list when I have a cabin/booking number. Photographers will be sharing cabins with other photographers, models with models, unless you make other arrangements. Clear with me PRIOR to purchasing tickets to be included in this group. THE SHOOT SCHEDULE: There will be 5 scheduled photoshoots. 2 in Cabo San Lucas, Tue 2pm to 5pm, Wed 9am Noon 1 in Puerto Vallarta 3pm to 6pm 2 on the cruise ship, Mon 4pm to 7pm, Sat 4pm to 6pm You are welcome to take any local tours or anything else you like when we are not shooting. GENERAL INFO ABOUT THE SHIP: One night is formal dining. A dress for the ladies. A tux for the men,(JK) but a jacket or tie or both would help. Way to windy on deck for softboxes etc.so when shooting KISS (keep it simple) Only 1 electrical outlet in the cabins plan ahead. If you can carry your own bags on and off the ship you will not have to wait in groups to off load. You are allowed to bring 1 bottle of wine or champagnie on board. You do go through customs, any drugs and NO CRUISE! Try not to pack for 3 months the cruise is only 7days. Parking at the terminal in Long Beach is $15./day. Think carpool! The entire group usually dine together however that is an option. EVERYTHING outside of the 5 organized shoots is yours do do as you please. TICKETS: Carnival Cruise contact is Shane His phone number is 800 819 3902 x85019 If you want cabins close together speak to him. Tell him you are with Photographer/Model group. You can buy your cruiseship tickets anyplace else you like. If you choose to use another source you can not be assured of a cabin close to the rest of the group. You will also have to make arrangements for dining with the rest of the group. Tickets should be purchased soon because the price can vary day to day. The price increases as it gets closer to sailing time. REQUIRED PAPERWORK TO SAIL: As I understand it do not need a passport you can board with a picture ID and a certified (seal embossed) birth certificate. The names on both documents must match. Maiden name on one and married name on the other will NOT work. If you want to be sure of getting on board a passport or passport card is best. MISC: Photographers & models are welcome to invite other friends and/or relatives on the cruise, but they Will not interfere with the 5 scheduled shoots and will pay their own way. The only people welcome at the scheduled shoots are the sponsoring photographers, the models and other pre-arranged help makeup etc.
7 DAY CRUISE/PHOTOSHOOT Cabo/PV Oct 6th 2013 in Events
The CARNIVAL MIRACLE [img]http://www.photodays.info/links/Miracle2.jpg[/img] CRUISE SCHEDULE: departs Day Date Location Arrive Depart Sun Oct 6 Long Beach, CA 4:30pm Mon Oct 7 At Sea Tue Oct 8 Cabo San Lucas 9:30am 6:00pm Wed Oct 9 Cabo San Lucas 7:00am 4:00pm Thu Oct 10 Puerta Vallarta 9:00am 9:00pm Fri Oct 11 At Sea Sat Oct 12 At Sea Sun Oct 13 Long Beach, CA 9:00am Pier address 231 Windsor Way, Long Beach, CA 90802 PRICE INFORMATION: If you are thinking of going on a cruise and price is a concern call Carnival and verify the prices quoted anywhere. Price includes all food & lodging on the cruise ship. Prices listed are per person based on double occupancy as of 11/26/2012 The cost for this complete cruise has been discounted from $1804. For an inside room to $494. Window cabins current price $669. Balcony cabins current price $684. Prices for 3 or 4 people per room are lower. INTERESTED MODELS: This is intended as a TF event. The cruise for the models is FREE! Models attending this cruiseboat shoot receive a FREE cruise ticket from their sponsoring photographer. Models are only obligated for the 5 organized/scheduled shoots. After that any model is free to shoot or not with anyone they like at anytime. The models compensation for the entire 7 days is the FREE cruise and vacation. Do not come on this cruise with the intention of making money from paid one on one shoots, as you will be disappointed. You are required to sign a release for all images shot at the group shoots to any photographer who requests one. What to bring for shooting. Beach in Mexico, Pool in Mexico and anything YOU want pictures in on board the ship. Photographers will be sharing cabins with other photographers, models with models, unless you make other arrangements. INTERESTED PHOTOGRAPHERS: This is intended as a TF event. Unlike most cruise ship photoshoots, this event provides ZERO profit to the promotor. Each photographer attending this cruiseshoot MUST also purchase a cruise ship ticket for the model of his/her choice. Photographers attending the cruiseshoot MUST also allow other photographers to shoot the model that they bring. Every photographer will have shooting access to all models attending. You are required to provide copies of all edited images from the group shoots to the models, unless other arrangements are made. Full resolution non-watermarked images from the group shoots, suitable for printing, shall be provided upon request by the model. By attending this event, you grant permission for the models to use all provided images from the group shoots for self promotion. I will add your name to the confirmed list when I have a cabin/booking number. Photographers will be sharing cabins with other photographers, models with models, unless you make other arrangements. Clear with me PRIOR to purchasing tickets to be included in this group. THE SHOOT SCHEDULE: There will be 5 scheduled photoshoots. 2 in Cabo San Lucas, Tue 2pm to 5pm, Wed 9am Noon 1 in Puerto Vallarta 3pm to 6pm 2 on the cruise ship, Mon 4pm to 7pm, Sat 4pm to 6pm You are welcome to take any local tours or anything else you like when we are not shooting. GENERAL INFO ABOUT THE SHIP: One night is formal dining. A dress for the ladies. A tux for the men,(JK) but a jacket or tie or both would help. Way to windy on deck for softboxes etc.so when shooting KISS (keep it simple) Only 1 electrical outlet in the cabins plan ahead. If you can carry your own bags on and off the ship you will not have to wait in groups to off load. You are allowed to bring 1 bottle of wine or champagnie on board. You do go through customs, any drugs and NO CRUISE! Try not to pack for 3 months the cruise is only 7days. Parking at the terminal in Long Beach is $15./day. Think carpool! The entire group usually dine together however that is an option. EVERYTHING outside of the 5 organized shoots is yours do do as you please. TICKETS: Carnival Cruise contact is Shane His phone number is 800 819 3902 x85019 If you want cabins close together speak to him. Tell him you are with Photographer/Model group. You can buy your cruiseship tickets anyplace else you like. If you choose to use another source you can not be assured of a cabin close to the rest of the group. You will also have to make arrangements for dining with the rest of the group. Tickets should be purchased soon because the price can vary day to day. The price increases as it gets closer to sailing time. REQUIRED PAPERWORK TO SAIL: As I understand it do not need a passport you can board with a picture ID and a certified (seal embossed) birth certificate. The names on both documents must match. Maiden name on one and married name on the other will NOT work. If you want to be sure of getting on board a passport or passport card is best. MISC: Photographers & models are welcome to invite other friends and/or relatives on the cruise, but they Will not interfere with the 5 scheduled shoots and will pay their own way. The only people welcome at the scheduled shoots are the sponsoring photographers, the models and other pre-arranged help makeup etc.
Why is it that people only want 5'7 +??? in General Industry
Firstly I am here in this conversation so please don't refer to me as 'she'. Secondly nothing was meant personally against you by me saying for real. I am also adressing the converstaion generally to people who compare what we do here with high fashion. But that doesn't mean we don't do fashion modelling. And that is the point. There is room for sthe shorther model in fashion if she makes up for her lack of inches in other ways. Aside from the fact that Kate Moss is an exception and you cite her for that which doesn't exactly help your argument what I am saying is most good fashion models who are tall are agency signed. That means they are expensive. So they get used for the elite modelling. But fashion is a huge cake and that is just the icing. Most of you will never get near it and neither will most of us. But yet there are thousands here making a living in fashion. Shooting for small designers, boutiques, catalogues, swimwear and lingerie etc etc. That is what I meant by get real: that is the reality for most of us and the truth is the vast majority of fashion concerns do not use supermodels or top photographers. They use journeymen and locals in both departments. I worked as a model in a couture house. Haute Couture just means high sewing and it is meaningless outside the top French houses who emply legions of seamstresses out of an almost social duty. So to all intents and purposes any company who design garments with a proper seamstress the old fashioned way on a fitting model can be classed as couture. There is no doubting the credibility of the company I worked for in terms of quality and craftsmanship. I was the fit model but did some runway for them. Some merch cat shoots. Some parts. Stands to reason what was designed on me looks good on me and frequently models used in various campaigns were not the choice of the design team. Not that they'd have used me - but they'd have used someone more my shape. There are no rules. There are guidelines and yes there are industry standards. It is sometimes said that rules in any case are to guide leaders and for slaves to follow. hence the excpetions happen a lot more frequently than you think even at top level. But I haven't heard once in this whole thread or any others the actual reason those industry standards developed. Prior to the late fifties most models were shorter. They were usually fitting models to start with. so sometimes they weren't that skinny either. Way before the advent of photography as we know it fashion models were used for fitting and showroom and events. Marie Vernet Worth was the first well known one simply because she was married to Charles Worth. The first well known fashion model was Lisa Fonsagrives. Tall for a model then at 5ft 7ins. Too tall for her original intended priofession of ballet but graceful and elegant and was able to put that to good use modelling. Prior to here many models were short; some atheltic build (particularly in the 1930's) and some very normal looking so as not to distance themselves from an economic and war strained public. The most famous - arguably the first - supermodel in the world at the time was in fact Dorian Leigh standing in at just 5ft 5" . Around average but by no means short for models of the time. The tall were the exception not the rule. Mary Jane Russell another famous model of the time associted with the New Look was 5ft 6ins. [img]http://fashionreverie.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Downloads224.jpg[/img] If you don't know Dorian Leigh she is the one who made those angle hip shots with negative space a trademark pose that we still use today. But the real change came in the fifties with several models who were very tall for the time and all of whom becamse sensational at roughly the same time. Anne st Marie and Jean Patchett at 5ft 8, and two gigantic women : Neena von Schlebrügge (Uma Thurman's mother) and Suzy Parker at a whopping 5ft 11". Those four and others at the time heralded a taller model. And with notable exceptions that has remained. THAT is why we have industry standard. Because if something works you stick to it. Because of a look that epitomises the feel of the time Twiggy, Kate Moss etc we see some change but generally the power of that late fifties fashion model revolution has stuck. It may not forever. At one time it was also considered for powerfully expressed aethetic reasons to use white women. The paler the better. Those days are gone. Dorian Leigh incidentally was Suzy Parker's sister. Doubtful we'd have seen that height change so cast in stone as you believe it to be if it were not ironically for Dorian who introduced her sister to Ford.
Disabled models, what do you think of this? in Model Colloquy
Watch out Hollywood, from saturday the 8th of December 2012 untill Thursday the 13th of December Disabled Models Debbie van der Putten (Amsterdam and London) and Shaholly Ayers (Hawaii) will visit Los Angeles to promote disability in fashion and media. Debbie (27), who lost her right arm above the elbow in a buscrash in the south of france 7 years ago is well known from the reality tv hitshow "Britain's Missing Top Model". Working as a fulltime model she travels all over the world to promote disability in fashion. She's represented by the worlds topleading "Ben Barry Agency" a modeling agency known for its use of diverse models that also represents America's (only plussize) Next Top Model Winner: "Whitney Thompson" and works as the spokesperson for a worldwide campaign called Models of Diversity www.modelsofdiversity.org With campaigns for fashion retailers like DiDi fashion and Fudge Hair products you can say she's been pretty succesful. After a very busy year in London with highlights such as a paralympic billboard campaign in London, Interviews for talkshow as ITV breakfast show & Channel 4 and catwalks for brands as Sonata Lingerie, Debbie decided to ask talented model Shaholly Ayers to promote disability in Los Angeles. Shaholly Ayers was born an upper extremity amputee, missing her right arm below the elbow. She grew up in the Oregon Cascades with the dream of one day becoming a model. Despite the negativity she received from people in her town, Shaholly set out to make her dreams come true. She went to a modeling agency in Honolulu, Hawaii and the agent turned her away telling her, “you will never model, no photographers will ever take your picture,” because she was missing her arm. Without an agent or manager, Shaholly represented herself and went on to grace the covers of two fashion magazines in Hawaii, has been featured in countless ads in magazines, boutiques and across the web, as well as coming close to appearing on Americas Next Top Model Cycle 13 making it to the final call back. Legendary model and actress Christie Brinkley had this to say about the fresh faced model: …Shaholly is gorgeous! In her eyes I see her looking at a very bright and exciting future! …Shaholly is not JUST A MODEL….but a role model as she reaches past any “limits’ and right for the stars!!!!!!!!People, like Shaholly who rise to the challenge, are the stuff dreams are made of!!! Shaholly is not just a pretty face with magnetic personality; she is also intelligent and ambitious, receiving a Masters in Business Administration which she plans to put to good use in the near future. Shaholly has always felt strongly in helping to spread awareness and knowledge of the people behind their disability. She is active within the community, having volunteered at Shriners Hospital for Children, a nonprofit hospital that cares for all children under the age of 18 with orthopedic conditions, burns, spinal cord injuries, cleft lip and palate, as well as amputees. Her mission is to help spread awareness and knowledge about disability. She believes that society’s view of people with disabilities is skewed, and she would like to help them realign their views. As is her slogan, There is nothing wrong with being different – Different is beautiful! They both believe we should see a better representation of society in fashion and have shown many times disability and fashion go together. Allthough the success of the London 2012 Paralympics had opened the public’s eyes to the talents of disabled people, we still don’t see disability in fashion Disabled models are discriminated against in the modelling industry, but more importantly, disabled people (approx. 15% of the population) as a whole are rarely addressed in mainstream advertising. Some retailers have improved access to their web sites, others provide easier access in stores, but rarely do they address and identify with a sector of purchasers that are largely overlooked. Debbie and Shaholly are here to make that change, and make fashion accesible for everybody. If you would like to recieve more info on the girls or their campaign, send in an interview request, invite the girls for an event or book a photoshoot please contact Debbie@modelsofdiversity.org Debbie van der Putten Debbie@ModelsOfDiversity.org www.Twitter.com/DebsMoD
How do you feel about disabled models? in General Feedback
Watch out Hollywood, from saturday the 8th of December 2012 untill Thursday the 13th of December Disabled Models Debbie van der Putten (Amsterdam and London) and Shaholly Ayers (Hawaii) will visit Los Angeles to promote disability in fashion and media. Debbie (27), who lost her right arm above the elbow in a buscrash in the south of france 7 years ago is well known from the reality tv hitshow "Britain's Missing Top Model". Working as a fulltime model she travels all over the world to promote disability in fashion. She's represented by the worlds topleading "Ben Barry Agency" a modeling agency known for its use of diverse models that also represents America's (only plussize) Next Top Model Winner: "Whitney Thompson" and works as the spokesperson for a worldwide campaign called Models of Diversity www.modelsofdiversity.org With campaigns for fashion retailers like DiDi fashion and Fudge Hair products you can say she's been pretty succesful. After a very busy year in London with highlights such as a paralympic billboard campaign in London, Interviews for talkshow as ITV breakfast show & Channel4 and catwalks for brands as Sonata Lingerie, Debbie decided to ask talented model Shaholly Ayers to promote disability in Los Angeles. Shaholly Ayers was born an upper extremity amputee, missing her right arm below the elbow. She grew up in the Oregon Cascades with the dream of one day becoming a model. Despite the negativity she received from people in her town, Shaholly set out to make her dreams come true. She went to a modeling agency in Honolulu, Hawaii and the agent turned her away telling her, “you will never model, no photographers will ever take your picture,” because she was missing her arm. Without an agent or manager, Shaholly represented herself and went on to grace the covers of two fashion magazines in Hawaii, has been featured in countless ads in magazines, boutiques and across the web, as well as coming close to appearing on Americas Next Top Model Cycle 13 making it to the final call back. Legendary model and actress Christie Brinkley had this to say about the fresh faced model: …Shaholly is gorgeous! In her eyes I see her looking at a very bright and exciting future! …Shaholly is not JUST A MODEL….but a role model as she reaches past any “limits’ and right for the stars!!!!!!!!People, like Shaholly who rise to the challenge, are the stuff dreams are made of!!! Shaholly is not just a pretty face with magnetic personality; she is also intelligent and ambitious, receiving a Masters in Business Administration which she plans to put to good use in the near future. Shaholly has always felt strongly in helping to spread awareness and knowledge of the people behind their disability. She is active within the community, having volunteered at Shriners Hospital for Children, a nonprofit hospital that cares for all children under the age of 18 with orthopedic conditions, burns, spinal cord injuries, cleft lip and palate, as well as amputees. Her mission is to help spread awareness and knowledge about disability. She believes that society’s view of people with disabilities is skewed, and she would like to help them realign their views. As is her slogan, There is nothing wrong with being different – Different is beautiful! They both believe we should see a better representation of society in fashion and have shown many times disability and fashion go together. Allthough the success of the London 2012 Paralympics had opened the public’s eyes to the talents of disabled people, we still don’t see disability in fashion Disabled models are discriminated against in the modelling industry, but more importantly, disabled people (approx. 15% of the population) as a whole are rarely addressed in mainstream advertising. Some retailers have improved access to their web sites, others provide easier access in stores, but rarely do they address and identify with a sector of purchasers that are largely overlooked. Debbie and Shaholly are here to make that change, and make fashion accesible for disabled. If you would like to recieve more info on the girls or their campaign, send in an interview request, invite the girls for an event or book a photoshoot please contact Debbie@modelsofdiversity.org Debbie van der Putten Debbie@ModelsOfDiversity.org www.Twitter.com/DebsMoD
Approaching random women about modeling in Photography Talk
I was following this with interest and agree with much of it. However I am not following the last bit: not sure what your point is. I can see you are saying that Kate Moss is a 'brand' - and that companies who use here are associating with that. But she has come to that stage because she is an exceptional model. The 'real' Kate Moss may be an A-list celeb you'd want at an event. She can also look pretty plain and even drained in real life. She is also associated with drugs etc which has lost her modelling contracts. And gained her some. That is all part of who she is. But she most certainly models and that is why she is where she is and who she is. Yes an aspect of her identity is what is being conveyed for association between the brands. That is the premier league: footballers at that level too become a 'brand' but they are that because they can play football. As in football the vast majority of professionals work in far lower leagues but they are still being paid to play football. That is the case on MM. Plenty of photographers and models here being paid to shoot fashion sometimes. Even at a low level sometimes 'brand' comes into it. There are many models here shooting the odd fashion ads because of their 'brand' too. Take for example a lingerie company using an MM model who is also known for her burlesque: they want that 'brand' association because she is known to the company's target audience. So I think many models nuture their own 'brand' and get work because of it. But they still have the ability to model. I did two fashion ads last week. One where the photographer chose me because of my ability to model but also I think he thought my image (brand) would suit the brand and their target audience; the other because the designer wanted me definitely because of my 'brand' (I am known to ladies who go horse racing and get a lot of media attention). So not sure how that 'brand' thing fits into the thrust of your argument most of which I agree with. Because we all nuture our 'brand' via our various niches in the lower divisions. Maybe that even supports your argument on a deeper level I am not sure. But yes it is also my assertion that someone off the street is being chosen because of something of interest or their beauty and on both scores - ability to model/act and 'brand' they are unknown quantities. I am therefore suspicious of anyone who would approach them asking them if they had considered modelling. Unless it's a chat up line. And generally it is - it usually comes from guys who are not even gwcs let alone photographers. Most photographers know better. Not that they never see someone that would make a good model: but it has more to do with the way the woman moves, carries and projects herself, uses gesture etc. than her looks. Beauty does not a model make. Of course you get the argument that yes but it's a help and then you can train anybody to model. Maybe but that takes a lot of work. I dare say you could train a monkey to be a waitress but why would you want to? So you can pay peanuts? In the end the time spent training the monkey has a cost value so why not just employ a good waitress with experience? Unless of course it's the novelty value. I think some photographers may like the idea of them 'discovering' the girl on the street and hoping they will get the credit for training the monkey. For the most part I think it fairly innocent having said all that. Photographers are likely to be attracted to beautiful things because they have a sensitivity to them as creatives. But see them as subjects not models. Like a beautiful landscape or butterfly. If their beauty is what has made you notice them it is fine to want to shoot them but why try to change them into something else? You don't train the landscape or the butterfly to be somethintg else you capture it as a subject in its own right. So if you see a girl in the street you are drawn to shoot remember that and approach it that way. 'I'd love to shoot you' will go down better from her point of view and yours than 'have you ever thought about modelling'. Unless the girl is not all there she will know that modelling actually involves work and a learned craft.
NYC Image Events: Chic Restaurants/Bottle Service in Events
My name is Randall Harris and I'm a working model (with an agency) and the team liason of an event image promotion team- Decadence Groupe. Believe it or not, our manager, the notorious writer and promoter Frankie Leone, is an exceptional organizer, entrepreneur, and good human being despite his sordid reputation. Our job (as I'm sure you're aware), essentially, is to invite models to be provided with complimentary entertainment (usually in the form of dinners, music, and/or cocktails/champagne) to enhance the vibe of a given event, and ensure models are comfortable by acting as a host along with 1-3 subhosts. We primarily host at hyped restaurants, corporate events, and bottle service nightspots. While many image promoters do not compensate their talent, we do. We acknowledge their choice to attend our events is worth more than a few cocktails. We offer paid perks / opportunities for a regular part time position (or occasional gig, if preferred) to any women (and some men) interested. I'd like to denote all team members and our manager are gracious hosts who treat our model guests / coworkers with dignity and respect. Their comfort and enjoyment matters to us. Below are outlined details for clarity and we humbly request all models to inquire via email (decadencegroupe@gmail.com) and refer other working models comfortable with our offers. Please feel free to show this text to any model, booker, or scout affiliated with you (or other models/agencies you respect) if you feel compelled. Please ask what you'd like for compensation for yourself and each referral producing a dialogue resulting in an engaged model. Please don't be shy to ask. We value your help, respect your profession, are honest individuals, and will work with you with absolute discretion. We will attach on the initial email to you and anyone you referred a document that may make you more comfortable. It's a basic NDA. We are aware event image promotion can be viewed as taboo in the modeling business. You or any other party does not need to sign it, but our manager has and will continue to do so. Decadence Groupe offers either paid perks or part time jobs/gigs to any women (and some men) currently working as a model in all five boroughs of New York City. +1s, +2s, +3s, etc are offered to all models attending our events for his or her friends in the same line of work. This can also be taken on a gig basis or a one-off. Decadence Groupe compiles model guest lists for weekly image dinners at from the hours of 9:45PM to 11:30PM (exact times subject to change) followed by private image parties at downtown clubs and lounges from 11:45PM until 2:30-3AM. We're currently calling for events starting the next week beginning Monday . The meals, cocktails, champagne, etc, will be complimentary the entire duration and no covers will be charged. The only expectations are models arrive on time to each location (which are almost always steps away from each other), enjoy themselves, and be comfortable with free fine food at NYC's hottest / newest restaurants and complimentary VIP treatment in the most exclusive nightclub in NYC. Models are not bound by contract, will never be photographed (no camera's allowed on most premises), are promised discretion, are free to leave at any point, and guaranteed their desired compensation if they invoice after meeting reasonable and fair attendance expectations. Identifying their primary employer to anyone but our manager, Frankie (an agency, for example) is unnecessary. A model only needs to say the name "Decadence" and show 21+ ID to door staff (doorman and security) when our group enters each establishment. Our manager, myself, and two subhosts will assist models in enjoying the events, keeping all informed/coordinated, and avoiding possible confusion. We would like to negotiate compensation on an individual basis with each referral depending on what each model's interest and area of comfort are in terms of attendance or assisting staff on premises (if they express interest in something beyond a paid perk). We will take time to explain the basic mechanics of event image promotion and NYC bottle service / nightlife, and outline the basics openly and honestly. Upon request we'll CC any agent or booker if you'd like in any or all correspondences. All cash compensation will be made via Paypal in seven to nine business days after we receive the attached invoice form sent by us upon initial contact along with an electronically signed NDA. Please send the invoice post-event to decadencegroupe@gmail.com and we will Paypal compensation to an email address of a model's choosing our managers personal / non-corporate account. We will respond to each invoice received to confirm payment is pending, and to legally bind ourselves to follow through. I hope this interests some of you enough to proceed. PLEASE EMAIL ALL INTEREST AND INQUIRIES TO DECADENCEGROUPE@GMAIL.COM AND INCLUDE THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION:' NAME: (Required.) EMAIL: (Required, and must be connected to a working Paypal account. Future invitations available if requested once weekly via mailing list. Please specify) ADDRESS: (Optional) PHONE: (Optional. Future invitations available if requested via text message between 3-5PM the day of each event. Please specify) FACEBOOK: (Optional. Future invitations available if requested via private message once weekly. Please specify) PROFESSIONAL PORTFOLIO LINK: (Required. Content will not be used for advertisement or promotion.) Have a beautiful night. ...Randall - Our manager's info: Frankie Leone Company: Decadence Groupe Position: Manager Phone: 347.628.8176 Email: decadencegroupe@gmail.com Company Site: http://www.bottleservice.biz/ Decadence Groupe: Image promotion group managed by Frankie Leone. Organized team of independent contractors. Mission: Decadence. Description: We sell sexy lies and palatable truths en masse. We are a group of independent contractors. Not exclusive and open to expansion. We specialize in event image promotion.
Aren't model releases for photographers? in Newbie Forum
A model release is not a contract. There's no need for a photographer to sign a model release. In a model release, the model gives a photographer various rights to use his/her image. Essentially, it's the model's "gift" to the photographer. Often the model receives compensation for that 'gift", but a model release never needs to be signed by a photographer....unless the photographer is also a model. A model release is a "uni-lateral" agreement. ("Uni-" meaning "one person"). When a photographer modifies a model release, or "creates" a document in which the photographer agrees to anything, then that document is a contract. A contract is a "bi-lateral" agreement. ("bi-" meaning two or more people). Without a model release, a photographer is usually limited in terms of what can be done with the images. If the "model release" is actually something drafted or modified to include any promise of any sort by the photographer, then it's really a "contract" (a bi-lateral agreement), and almost worthless for any sort of sale to another party, licensing to another party, and in most cases, any sort of publication. No publisher that I've heard of will accept a bi-lateral "contract" in lieu of a uni-lateral "model release". The reason for this is that there's too much "gray area" in a bi-lateral contract, and it's difficult to ascertain that the photographer met their contractual obligations....which if they didn't...would render the contract viod. Likewise, without permission from the photographer who owns the copyrights, models can't do much with images either, usually. The document that allows the model to use the images, is generally called a "usage license". That too, is a uni-lateral agreement. My advice to model and photographers is to avoid contracts. They are messy. They generally are amateur modifications of what was once a good legal document. Since contracts require both parties to uphold their related parts of an agreement, it can easily become void. Publishers seldom accept contracts in lieu of a model release. Using another separate sheet of paper so that there can be one uni-lateral use license and one uni-lateral model release solves numerous problems that would otherwise exist with contracts, and it really doesn't waste that many trees.
?? Agency models having trouble finding work?? in Photography Talk
Major Agency Models Having Trouble Finding Work? Now and then I shoot/test with agency models and a lot of my friends work at major agencies here in LA. The other night my friend was saying she was having trouble getting booked through her major agency. I asked her what her rates were, and she said they had to be at least $1,000 before the agency would even consider the project. Now she's a beautiful model, but perhaps on the shorter side of agency models. Some of the models that I have shot, who are med-students/physics majors/lawyers/pro surfers/athletes, who have never really modeled, probably have more classical features/attributes than the agency model, but never got into modeling. The pro-athletes are in amazing/natural shape--something that his hard to do unless you are working out/surfing every day, which combines a rugged regimen of dryland weights, swimming, and ballet. Oftentimes the photos of these non-"professional"-models become a lot more popular, receiving a lot more views and favorites than agency models. Many times they just shoot for the fun of shooting/finished photos/ and a hundred dollars or so and clothes. I value everyone's talent & time & we always have fun out there on the beach! Combine all this with the existence of all the casting networks and sites like modelmayhem, and I think it's tough road to hoe for agencies to demand $1,000 as a starting figure for every model. Sure if she has name recognition/is famous, then yes, charge twice or five times as much! Before the internet provided a place to post castings and browse profiles, agencies were the "only game in town" when it came to finding models. And sure, if you have a Vogue or Victoria Secret or Sports Illustrated budget, you will still start with the agencies, but then again, very few models--a tiny percentage of agency models--ever become Victoria Secret models or Sports Illustrated Swimsuits models. So it's sad when a young model has to pass on $500-$900 afternoon jobs that would bring her exposure and compensation, and perhaps, most importantly, the enjoyment of modeling. A similar thing has happened/is happening in the film/TV industry. SAG actors/actresses are oft prevented from working on non-SAG projects. This was fine ten-twenty years ago when all major projects were SAG. But today, with the highly-capable, inexpensive DSLR and inexpensive film-editing suites, a lot of films you will see at Sundance are not SAG. I've known more than one actor who had to turn down work and, ultimately, a Sundance opportunity. What's everyone's take on these industry trends? I understand agencies wanting to be exclusive, but in these tough economic times, they would benefit by being a bit more lenient and letting models book $500-$900 jobs while waiting to get cast in the Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Issue or the Victoria Secret Catalogue through the agency.
First nude shoot "How to"... in Photography Talk
I honestly don't remember my first nude shoot. I can remember first times I've shot a model nude, or her first time, but I've been shooting nudes as long as I can remember. The biggest thing, especially today, is just do it. Don't over think it. There isn't anything different in shooting nudes, vs non-nudes, except it's a lot easier, lighter to get to location, more room in the studio, etc. Most of the models I work with now are nude models because it's _easier_ to do, than carry a huge wardrobe. And, they are good at it. But, it depends on the type if images and look you want. No one model can do everything. It's not possible. A girl with a trim lithe figure is not going to do a rubenesque type image. A curvy model isn't going to wear clothes/props the way a thin slight model will. Large breasts are not going to behave the same way as small ones. Long hair/short hair. etc. the list goes on. Pick the modles for the images you want to make, or the way it really works, is pick the images for the model(s) that show up, and wait til the right ones come along for the other ones. You can't force everything into one model/type. If you look through portfolios here, many are the "same" girl, in the same pose, in the same bikini, etc. They may have different birth certificates, but they are all the "same." In most cases, though, unless you live in big areas, you can't select for a certain type of model, you have to take a wider variety. In those cases, THINK about the best shots for the models you have, rather than trying to get the model to do the shots you want (even if not the right body type). I run workshops, and sometimes we plan a theme/idea. But, the model(s) don't show, and we have to use alternates. In *most* cases, we have to change the theme to get the best photos. If we had an idea that called for a short, trim small breasted athletic type model, we aren't going to be able to make those images if a taller, curvy DD model is the one who actually shows! But simply don't over think a nude shoot. There is really no difference, and the models today who do shoot nudes, don't feel there is a difference either. It's not like it was even 10 years ago, and certainly not like 20 years ago. We have changing rooms, but the models don't use them (some do, and *THAT* seems weird). Why use a changing room to switch tops, or bottoms, if you've been nude, and are going to be nude, again?? The less of a deal you make of it, the less of a deal it is. If you are working for light/shadow type images, some models are just awesome. You aren't sure what makes them so, or why the light likes them, but it does. But once you work with them, you realize they have the "figure" for art. Other models, may be gorgeous, but their figure is just bland when the light plays on it. You can't figure out why. It just doesn't play well. So, be flexible, use the LCD to view the images with a new model, so you don't miss out on what makes them special. Adapt as you need to. But, don't make a big deal about nude models. Think of them as not nude, but in a "birthday suit" scott
Don't just say "Interested" in General Industry
Those of you who use model mayhem know what i’m talking about. Those people that reply to a casting with one word “interested” as opposed to answering basic questions required for any photo shoot. It seems like a waste of time for me to have to then reply and ask these questions, and then wait a day and a half at times, and maybe longer for a response, to then have to respond again to confirm a date to shoot…….IT’S JUST TO MUCH. I among others in this industry don’t believe in the idea of the “stupid” or “dumbfounded” model who just sits and looks pretty and has to have someone to wipe their ass when done on the toilet. To be honest; to be a good model is freaking hard work. people like to say that modeling is different from acting, and i’m here to correct that. It isn’t very different; we’re asking you to do the same thing, which is to act out a role that doesn’t necessarily match you’re own personality. The simple difference is that acting, in most situations, requires interaction and the capturing of this role in a time based medium, where as photography requires all of that to be in one frame. it is still acting in most senses of the word. I mean look a modeling shows on TV; look at Americas Next Top Model for goodness sake. There is a clear divide in the show between the models while on a shoot and the models while at home….and the part they really don’t show is that those women are smart as hell. you think they’re just sitting and being beautiful. No they’re studying all of the top model magazines in the country…in the world. you ask them for a certain look, the good ones can tell you what that look entails, and what each body movement tells their viewers. Modeling isn’t just siting there and being some stupid object….and until people entering the fashion/editorial industry know that….until models on model mayhem really know that…and until model mayhem promotes that as their statute of liberation…..that is professionalism….Model Mayhem will always be looked down upon as utterly amateur . It’s great that your interested in what ever casting call that you reply to, but honestly we already know that. This is one of the reasons why model mayhem has the cheap, amateur reputation in the industry now, because people don’t think about simple things, such as submitting to a casting. When you go to a live casting, you don’t just go in looking any type of way and say “i’m interested”…….everyone knows that the casting director might put you out. Look at your model mayhem profile…study your images and in comparison study images printed in fashion spreads. think about what about those images look good…….look at how the models are posing, think about the character they are playing. So Lets get real with the mess, i’m not using model mayhem because I want to be an amateur, i’m using it because I want to expand my portfolio, my name as a photographer, and most importantly my professional skills. And the only way to do that is to hold yourself to a professional standard. A casting call on model mayhem is equivalent to a casting or an interview in real life. Your response is your practice in the game of professionalism. These are basic questions to answer right off the back when submitting to a casting call do you have particular dates and times you’re available to shoot do you have clothes you’re able to bring do you need example images of what i’m looking for The simple question to ask yourself, so as to not make a fool of yourself is “what will they want to know from me” because if your responding at all…we already know that you’re interested, what we really want to know is how can you be of help
Winner of the annual flake of the year goes to... in Off-Topic Discussion
Wait...what?? If a model has a weak portfolio, but a good look...are you telling me you WOULDN'T shoot with her? The quality of the photos in a model's portfolio is completely irrelevant. Why do you think agencies want to see Polaroids of the models the sign? A good sculptor doesn't look at a statue and decide whether or not he wants to work on it; he looks at a mound of clay and sees what it can become. Likewise, a good photographer can look at a model's features and tell whether or not that model will suit the type of photos he wants to create. The benefit for a model to shoot with a good photographer, is that she will get good images for her portfolio. The better the images, the more other photographers will see what looks the model is capable of achieving, or just how good she can really look. In essence (and in no way am I minimizing the value of the models out there), a model is a prop for a photographer. The model doesn't make the photo; the photographer does. And, while a good model can improve a bad photographer's portfolio (possibly); a good photographer and a good model can create something amazing...just look at the portfolios of some of the best photographers here, like Phillip Ritchie, Neil Snape, Simon Thorpe, etc. On the other hand, I've seen crappy photographers here shoot with some gorgeous models and they still produce crap. Only now, it's crap with a good looking model in it. So ANY model, regardless of her skill level, or the quality of her portfolio, or the amount of experience she has, is worth shooting with if she fits the photographer's vision for the art he wants to create. So there is in fact a benefit for a skilled photographer to shoot with an lesser, or even inexperienced model. Hell, take a look at R Michael Walker's photos of an elderly Black man and his wife. The images are iconic. But in order to create art even with a model(s) who aren't "pretty", it takes talent; not just knowledge of how to work a camera and lights.
Question to stock photographers in Photography Talk
I take it that you are asking about the model release you use, not some kind of license you are granting to the model. For stock work the release you obtain FROM the model must be compatible with the stock house's expectations as to marketing the image(s) to their clients. Nothing less will do. If you break that rule you will likely have images the stock house, as your agent, will not handle on your behalf. Basically what you need to obtain from the model generally must be an all uses, non-geographically limited; non-time limited, FULL COMMERCIAL release with no right of pre-approval [by the model] or final approval [by the model] of anything to do with the image use, or the end user client of the stock house... and such rights of use of the images must be fully licensable and sub-licensable to third parties with no legal hindrances imposed by the model or recourse available to the model, their heirs or assigns. If you can not get a model to agree to that releasing formula then you shouldn't be using that model for stock work, in the UK, or, because stock houses operate in, and sell to clients in, an international market place, anywhere else. Full stop. End of story. THE SITUATION IN THE UK Model releases, as they are usually discussed here on this forum, are used primarily to have a model agree not to sue you, or the stock house, or an end user client [of the stock house] over the use of their image in some way on the basis of some rights that they hold in law to their "image"; "personality"; "privacy"; or [right of] "publicity" in legal jurisdictions where those rights are established and rest with the model. This is particularly critical where an end user requires a license for some actual commercial use. Unusually, here in the UK models have no inherent or underlying legal or statutory rights to any of those things. Thus, here in the UK, where you write in some restricting clauses to a model release you invariably REDUCE the rights, as the copyright owner, that you would otherwise have had there been no release at all. As you can not ordinarily operate on an "unreleased" basis with stock houses, or, submit such images to them, the only alternative to preserve those rights in your images [to market and authorise use of the images] that you already have by default, is some form of all-singing / all-dancing release. The model, outside of the model agency world which is a special case, will either sign it or not get the work. And for stock houses there MUST BE a clear and unambiguous paper trail, starting with the model's signature on a release, demonstrating that the model is NOT reserving or limiting usage rights in any significant way, or, preferably, in any way at all. Studio36
Photographers, what if your model flakes? in General Industry
I read 2 pages and scanned the third. Is this the story? The OP is a male model. He was booked to do a couples shoot with a female model and she flaked and everyone went home. Sad faces. I got questions: #1. Who booked the female model, the photographer or the male model? #2. Was the female model an acquaintance or 'friend' of the male model? #3. No mention of checking the females references? #4. The OP stated that the model was contacted the next day but no mention of her 'excuse' for flaking? #4. The OP posted a note about the female model being a flake which is against the TOS here on MM. The model contacts him to complain. Butt hurt all round. #5. The photographer had no backup plan to work with the OP as an individual model? If the shoot was not a required theme involving couples for a client, then why not do something creative? #6. Was this a paid shoot or a TFP deal? #7. what about the references for the model? or did the OP or the photographer have previous positive experience with the female model? We got 25% of a story here. Personally, I always had other work to do if a model did not show. Usually paper work, personal work, image editing, etc. In addition, I never called the model before 48 hours had passed--that way, they think that you are chilled and everything is "ok". You place the call, if the model answers, you say "hello, this is_________". STOP--don't say another word. You do not give them another microsecond to recover from thier shock and take a breath before starting their preplanned excuse. You listen as they stumble over themselves and fall flat. You stay silent and listen.when they are finished, you comment, "OK, goodbye" and hangup. block their number and other methods of contact you had with them. The only model that did not show for me that had a valid excuse called me later the day of the shoot and explained that she had been in the ER with a sick child. I rescheduled her and when she arrived for the shoot she handed me the official ER discharge sheet that showed her arrival and discharge times from the ER, the child's name and diagnosis, etc. I never asked for that document, but the model was a true professional who cared about her reputation and my time. Each was valued by the other.
We need to change the rules... in Photography Talk
I see it another way, it is like he is stating that we are photographers just run after the models, that is why most of them putting that "Paid only" status, if we are photographers get paid as it should be then it will be the opposite side, the models will run after the photographers and willing to pay whatever. In my country, i see all models who works in a company or agency asking for paid only and never go with test/TF even the photographer is a professional, and if i want to build my portfolio then i must pay for them, but at the end i see paying them will not help me much to build portfolio to help me getting the place in market, and even i saw that most of them don't justify th payment, they do great job in modeling with only professional photographers, and me even i pay more than those professionals don't get the job from models for me, so how can i be a professional if even with payment i can't be there, and for how long i must pay the models so i can be in market shooting professionally? And honestly speaking, i see many models asking for payment and they don't act as models even the look is not so decent, as most of you said, it is not about the look only, well, even another aspect i can't see much, there are very few models who are deserved to be paid well, but those models are not having time for tests even paid, my wife and her sisters can be models because they are pretty good looking and they are great dancers, they can do modeling better and they have characteristics. I will pay for the models who don't wasting my time and money, not all models stating professional are right, maybe in my country the atmosphere for models is that all photographers here are rich and must pay, so rarely i can find models who go for free or test and so on, and honestly speaking, if a model pay me a money, then i will squeeze all my skills to make her very satisfied even the money she paid not not so good, in other hand, models must do their job if i will pay them decent budget, don't tell me they all do, no they don't.
We need to change the rules... in Photography Talk
I think.. This goes both ways... When your desperate for a portfolio, work with someone desperate as well.. If your not talented, your not... No "pretty" model can teach you proper photography techniques... Ive seen photograpers with the simplest of models, and nothing special about them ALLLL over their portfolio... And they still make money.... ? Hmmmm... Interesting here... Something to think about? Maybe its not the models, maybe its the photographer? Sometimes, Of course, its the model too!! Theres a lot of terrible models out there!! (not to say IM fantastic myself). But ive worked with some photographers who have NEVER shot model portraiture before!! And we came up with some amazing shots from something sooo simple. Im one of those models that shoot TF shots, and test shots, and find myself "muse" photographers that i work well with, and am garanteed fantastic shots regardless of concept. When you find models approaching you left right and centre to shoot TF, just offer your rates.. They dont like it, move on... You cant force models to pay you, as some models NEVER will pay!! Its a two way street!!! You want a model who pays... You more then likely wont get a very good model=(in your mind it seems) crappy shots. Unless your photography is THAT good, your only LOOKING for money... Go somewhere else, as the photographers here who make REAL money, make art... Not money... Money just comes with it... Focus more on your art then the models... Its about art... Doesnt matter WHAT Model you get, every model has a canvas... Are you talented enough to paint it? And are you talented enough that they cant find your talent somewhere else for free? Thats the real question here.... Cuz otherwise, as a model, we would say NEXT! Just as a photographer would to a model that isnt unique...
ru considered a model if you're not signed? in Off-Topic Discussion
Eh. People get their panties in a twist about the word "model" a lot, but, truth is, any one (or thing) that models can be called a model. Hell, this is a model. You can cut it any way you like, but the fact of the matter is, if I'm taking a picture of someone (or drawing them, painting them, sculpting them, whatever -- I'm a woman of many talents), I'm not gonna say to my friend, "Oh, sorry, I can't go to tennis with you that day, I've got a person-who-models-as-a-hobby-but-not-for-a-living-so-don't-call-them-a-model coming over." Now, there are some people who like to try to "reserve" the term "model" for professionals, or particularly good models, or whatever. But that seems silly to me. Don't be proud about the fact that you model! Anybody can model. Models, if you want something to be proud of, model well, and be proud of that. I think it's all connected to the fact that "model" is a very loaded term in our society of the spectacle -- people associate it with superstars, gorgeous people, whatever. But the reality of modeling is that it's really quite mundane. You show up, you do a job, you leave. You don't need to have x number of fans, or really cool sunglasses, or a cloud of glitter that mysteriously follows you around whatever room you step into. It's just a thing you do. If professional models want to differentiate themselves from other people who model (and, yes, that differentiation does come in handy), they can do that with a very simple term. "Professional model." Wow! Only two words and six syllables! It's almost easy to say! There's really no reason why people who model for a living need to deny the term "model" to other people who do it unless it's some weird ego thing.
SexyMuse Workshop & Cruise - The Caribbean in Events
[img]http://www.sexymuse.com/ws/Cruise_SMWS_Nov12.jpg[/img] SexyMuse Workshop & Cruise Glamour (Playboy Style) | Artistic Nude | Bikini | Posing | Lighting Practice makes perfect and practice with some of the most amazing models around, including several Glamour and Bikini models makes it perfect and fun! If you want to improve the quality of your photography, one thing you can do right away is learn to use natural light in better ways. And here you will have that chance. Rocke Photography and SexyMuse are combining efforts to bring you this workshop with detailed training and instruction in the use of natural lighting for creating amazing Bikini, Lingerie and Artistic Nude images. This workshop is not a paparazzi style shoot out. Each photographer will have individual shooting time with each of the main models to get some outstanding images in a relaxed and amazing setting. And, in case you need more, be sure to plan some one-on-one time with your favorite model(s) after the main workshop. You will have an opportunity to work with these great models everyday, while receiving instructions and tips on how to improve your photography. Join us for this workshop and you will receive: • Cruise Ticket (a credit towards your cabin based on double occupancy, and subject to availability. They include port charges but do not include airfare or (where applicable) airport or government taxes or fees. • Spanish speaking guide for our time at Cozumel, Mexico • Transportation at Cozumel to the different shooting locations • Four days learning and shooting. • Training (theory) on lighting and posing techniques. • Live demonstration of these techniques. • Amazing glamour models to shoot with. • Q&A throughout the duration of the workshop. • You'll spend 80%+ of your time shooting. • Promotional/Portfolio Model Release from all the models are included in the price. • 10% Discount on your rental from Aperturent Participating models click on the image to go to the model's gallery and video [img]http://www.sexymuse.com/ws/img/th/sexymusecruise_brittneyleigh-th-1.jpg[/img] Maxim Model Brittney Leigh - Atlanta, GA [img]http://www.sexymuse.com/ws/img/th/sexymusecruise_scarlettth-10.jpg[/img]Glamour Model Scarlett Tampa, FL [img]http://www.sexymuse.com/ws/img/th/sexymusecruise_amandath-2.jpg[/img] Glamour Model Amanda Sarasota, FL [img]http://www.sexymuse.com/ws/img/th/sexymusecruise_sarahqth-1.jpg[/img] Glamour Model Sarah Q Atlanta, GA [img]http://www.sexymuse.com/ws/img/th/sexymusecruise_johannieth.jpg[/img] Glam-Ink Model Johannie Secaucus, NJ [img]http://www.sexymuse.com/ws/img/th/sexymusecruise_callieth-1.jpg[/img] Bikini Model Callie Miami, FL [img]http://www.sexymuse.com/ws/img/th/sexymusecruise_stephanieth.jpg[/img] Lingerie Model Stephanie Hover - Atlanta, GA [img]http://www.sexymuse.com/ws/img/th/sexymusecruise_giavictoriath-1.jpg[/img] Glamour Model Gia Victoria - Miami, FL Ready for this fantastic opportunity? Sign up Now!!! >> When • November 08th to Nov 12th SexyMuse Workshop & Cruise - $850.00(*) (*)Price includes all items listed above [img]http://www.sexymuse.com/ws/boton_register_here.png[/img] For additional information (FAQ) click here | Contact us at: atlws@sexymuse.com | Phone (678)785.5271 Sponsored by: [img]http://www.sexymuse.com/ws/aperturent_sm.png[/img] [img]http://www.sexymuse.com/ws/photoplex_studios.jpg[/img]
Oct 13 / 2013 'Cruiseboat Photoshoot' / Cabo & PV in Events
The Carnival Miracle will be your host cruiseship for this 6 day 'Cruiseboat Photoshoot' from Sunday, October 13th (year 2013) to Saturday, Oct 19th. The structured itinerary for this cruiseboat photoshoot will follow the highly successful format of the Sept 2nd 'Cruiseboat Photoshoot' hosted in 2012, with 4 groupshoots planned over a 6 day period, including one day of exclusive 'one on ones' scheduled. One HUGE difference between this shoot and the Sept 2nd shoot in 2012 is, temperatures will be alittle more comfortable in the mid to upper 80's range, because it's 5 weeks later in the year. Temps were in the high 90s on that cruise. More details and information (including photos) will be added to this post as time progresses. The current cost to attend this 6 day cruiseboat photoshoot event is an INSANELY LOW PRICE of less than $350 per person (double occupancy necessary). To review additional details and to book your cruise on this event, click on the link below. http://www.carnival.com/core/cruisedeta … tierCode:, Here's sailing and photoshoot itinerary: Sunday (Oct 13) / Leaves Long Beach 4:30 PM / Introduction Meeting in Buffet 7:30pm Monday (Oct 14) / At sea all day / Groupshoot 4-8pm Tuesday (Oct 15) / Docking in Cabo 9:30AM / Beachshoot in Cabo / Boarding at 4pm Wednesday (Oct 16) / Puerto Vallarta / Dock 9AM / Afternoon & Sunset Beachshoot at Conchas Chinas / Depart 9PM Thursday (Oct 17) / All Day on Ship / One on One Shoots All Day Friday (Oct 18) / All Day on Ship / Groupshoot 4-8pm Saturday (Oct 19) / Arrive at Long Beach / Debarkation This will be the 5th 'cruiseboat photoshoot' I've attended. If you're looking for an organizer who really knows how to put together some great shoots on this venue, THIS is your event. This is a 'one on one' photographer to model ratio event. Cabo San Lucas and Puerta Vallarta (see images below) are hands down the most beautiful beaches on Mexico's Pacific coast. This cruiseship has 3 nightclubs that are ROCKIN every night, resulting in MASSIVE funtimes when you're not shooting. Cameras are also welcome inside the nightclubs. There's also FREE entertainment and comedy shows every night, and 'Rockstar Karoke'. If you like to 'party hardy', then THIS is your cruise! The 2 scheduled on board photoshoots will be conducted in the late afternoon and early evening, so you'll have plenty of time to 'recoop' from any partying you may do the night before. ATTENTION INTERESTED PHOTOGRAPHERS: Unlike cruiseboat photoshoots organized by others, this event provides ZERO profit to the promotor. You DO NOT pay me, you purchase your discount cruise tickets directly from Carnival Cruiselines at 800-819-3902 (ext. 85395/Jessica). Each photographer attending MUST also purchase a cruise ship ticket for the model of his (or her) choice. And because it's YOUR model selection for this event, you are not forced to shoot a model that some promotor decides to invite without your input. Photographers must also allow other photographers to shoot their invited models, who will in turn allow you to photograph their invited model, providing all photographers with a multi-model shoot that YOU had a hand in selecting. If your model flakes and does not attend, you WILL NOT be invited to join the 4 planned groupshoots, so MAKE SURE your model arrives and gets on board (pick her up from the airport and drive her to the cruiseship if necessary). Only exception to this rule is if you invited more than one model, and at least one model attends. I will be inviting 2 models that photographers will DEFINITELY enjoy shooting. ATTENTION INTERESTED MODELS: Models attending this cruiseboat shoot receive a FREE cruise ticket from their sponsoring photographer. All additional expenses accumulated on the cruise (bar tabs/souveniors/on shore expenses) will be your responsibility. Model releases will be included for all 4 groupshoot photoshoots within the purchase of your cruiseship ticket. If models and photographers contract to shoot nudes on this event, photographers may be responsible for nude shoot model releases. If you're interested in attending, please post a message on this events forum thread indicating your availablity, and photographers interested in sponsoring you will make contact. ATTENTION EVERYONE ATTENDING: To get on the cruiseship, you MUST HAVE either a US Passport, OR a certified Birth Certificate accompanied by a State Drivers License or State issued ID Card. Unlike other cruiseboat photoshoots, photographers & models are welcome to invite friends on the cruise, but they MUST NOT interfere with the proceedings of the 4 planned groupshoots. The 2 groupshoots on the ship will last a total of 3 1/2 hours each... while the 2 groupshoots in Mexico will last for 4 1/2 hours... and ALL participating photographers and models on this cruise MUST attend. Models WILL NOT be compensated financially for participating in those 4 shoots. Thursday, Oct 18th will be the designated 'one on one shoot day'. One on one's may include some form of financial compensation... they may not. It all depends upon what the model and the photographer agree upon. Please post a message here if you're available and interested.
not model material in General Industry
Which model looks out of place here and why? Lara Stone [img]http://i.models.com/model_culture/50topmodels/images/52994-800w.jpeg[/img] Aline [img]http://i.models.com/i/db/2012/1/78633/78633-800w.jpg[/img] Joan Smalls [img]http://i.models.com/i/db/2012/7/109610/109610-800w.jpg[/img] Liu Wen [img]http://i.models.com/i/db/2012/1/78300/78300-800w.jpg[/img] Daphne G [img]http://i.models.com/i/db/2010/11/34505/34505-800w.jpg[/img] Fei Fei [img]http://i.models.com/i/db/2012/2/82802/82802-800w.jpg[/img] Lindsey [img]http://i.models.com/i/db/2011/5/49087/49087-800w.jpg[/img] Jourdan [img]http://i.models.com/i/db/2012/8/111786/111786-800w.jpg[/img] Sui He [img]http://i.models.com/i/db/2011/6/49470/49470-800w.jpg[/img] Xiao Wen Ju [img]http://i.models.com/i/db/2012/8/113315/113315-800w.jpg[/img] The OP [img]http://photos.modelmayhem.com/photos/110829/17/4e5c2d3c67858.jpg[/img] Crystel [img]http://i.models.com/i/db/2009/6/7397/7397-800w.jpg[/img] Ajak [img]http://i.models.com/i/db/2011/3/43591/43591-800w.jpg[/img] Anais M [img]http://i.models.com/i/db/2011/10/65936/65936-800w.jpg[/img] Anais P [img]http://i.models.com/i/db/2012/4/96224/96224-800w.jpg[/img] The difference between these girls and most people on MM should be obvious... it has nothing to do with height, race, size, or photography.... Every model on this site should just line up their shots with these (and other top models) to see if they can see a clear difference or not...
Models and Compensation in Photography Talk
yes I am fired up. I may be long winded in your opinion but I have taken massive and unwarranted personal attack here. Constantly for example you have suggested that I 'claim' to know models and I 'cliam' to have done this or that . As though I am a liar. Unecessary and easily disproved: but of course you haven't got the balls to bet on it have you? Now just think...you have mentioned that you know top fashion models. I have NEVER once doubted that you have told the truth. You may not be; but I always assume that grown ups engaged in proper debate neither lie nor insult one another. And impling that my testimony is a lie because you cannot undermine it any other way; or others suggesting I am attention seeking (which I can just as easily prove wrong) are pathetic attempts to devalue what I am saying. I am NOT name dropping - where have I done it in this thread? I only did it in the other to show those that thought fit modelling was for us low lifes - it has the odd glamorous moment. So yes I mentioned one I did runway with. ONE. You have kept saying that you know top models but have FAILED to cite one. Not that I doubt you; but you did mention that you knew a lot. You are nothing but a negative mysogenistic troll determined to put model mayhem models down and these are the only threads you ever contribute to. Now. I have said MANY TIMES but it is failing to get through to you that 99% of the fashion industry from boutiques to students to small designers to even larger fashion houses DO NOT have the budget to employ agency models for everything. I have told you ; as has my partner who is a small designer, that there is simply NOT the budget but models are still needed for a variety of activities from fit to showroom to event modelling of the garments; and not even advertisements and editorial in small magazines. Fashion houses are not going to employ agency models as fit and there are at least as many fit models as editorial models and the work is more regular. Not highly paid; but regular. So there is plenty of such work for freelance models who make the effort IF they are in the right area to find it. To sneer at us because we don't do much photography disgusts me. You ONLY know and aspire to editorial fashion photography and by your own admission are not yet a professional in that. I can't see why you wouldn't be able to but I take your word for it. I have cited you dozens of models here ; and other models have come forward that stand as testimony to your claims that MM is mianly for amateurs, Even if it is; that gives you NO right to suggest we all are. And it doesn't take much to sort the wheat from the chaff or see that there are thousands of professional model ports here far more high flying than those of us who just do the journeymen stuff. You don't look at them because you seek models for free and end up with the moneygrabbers and the unreliable in the end anyway. Pay peanuts get monkeys. As for your insults ...well as someone else put it that is classless. All arguments that resort to personal attack when confronted with evidence are. If you are tired of me yapping then desist coming to the model coloquy forums telling us we are a bunch of amateurs. As I said; what the hell are you doing here then? You are difficult to ignore when you keep bnaging the same drum and will not accept that there are many models here of all kinds; including agency girls. While you keep saying we are all amateurs and wannabes you will keep getting a piece of my mind.
Models and Compensation in Photography Talk
No I KNOW that what you say is correct re some models being broke. There is NO reason for them to be if they realise that you won't make much money out of photographers. Come on....even if you got a £3k shoot job for an advertorial and they allow you to pick the models it is going to be too much to resist asking us to do it tf because it's going to be in a mag isn't it? So the only way WE are going to see that action is to drop ino the local boutique say hi , drop off your z card with the MM port addy on it; make freinds do their charity fashion show for £75 and a dress and tell your friends to go there to shop etc. Then; when they want an ad done THEY call us. The photographer turns up and doesn't get it because I am not a bimbo and he knows I am likely getting as much cash as he is. So let us not pretend here: we aren't ever going to make much out of photographers. This is the approach most freelancers who get work take. They love it the clients because they befriend you, and they don't get charged £800 for an agency model or a photographer pretending he is paying that for the model! Then as I have said many times you have the fitting route. There must be a thousand models in London alone doing this; quite a number are here including the top girls like the Vivienne Westwood girl I showed you. Then NO fine art nude model in a metropolis need ever go skint if she realises that artists and Art institutions always pay; and out of those 100 artists you model for on a thursday night at least five want to shoot you too and KNOW that they have to pay you because they see you are earming a living at it. Yes; as I said if you sit on your arse and expect work to come to you on MM you will not get much. Not even much from the castings. You have to graft and market your online port agressively. Do I check into my profile daily? No. I didn't check in for six weeks when I was away. As it happens I couldn't cjheck my emails then but didn't miss much as it was advertised on my port. But unless I am engaged in a discussion on forums then I won't check in UNLESS I get an email from MM . That doesn't mean I am not using my MM port as an online portfolio to send to castings and poetential clients. One doesn't have to check in to do that and the emails come back to you not your MM port. How many boutiques and designers and artists do you suppose are on MM? A lot; but just a tiny fraction of the potentail clientelle. And I have NO clue why you think designers and small boutiques don't pay. My partner is very small and always pays models. They won't get pics often so he has to. Yes I do a bit for him and he for me; but he still pays other girls too. And they always seem happy to swan around in a £2k tweed suit or a £5k mink coat at the races all day and get paid for it. And he uses them for fit too and again pays. I do a bit for other small designers too and it has never come up that they can't pay. Where do you get this? Even student fashion designers pay. When they do their shows and shoots they'll get three or four other students to model and a couple of pros. NOT agency obviously. So they can only give you £100 so what? Do three or four of those a month in addition to your other shit and its good. It does surpise me no end when I can walk into a Knightsbridge store or send an email and get fit and showroom work from it. I just give my z card, say I am around, and they look up my MM port and say yes can you come in thursday we have some Arab/Russian ladies/trade client/ad photographer coming in so we need a model (and likely one that has familiarised themselves with the product and can converse pleasantly about it and isn't going to cost them a grand from an agency). But THAT is how one gets work. The fact that a lot of MM models don't seem to realise that stuff is why they aren't getting work. Those of us that are; unless they are like me a sucker for punishment in forums; they won't check in often no. That IS NOT where the value of an online port is. I write a lot Tony is because I think I can contribute to you and other models the benefit of my experience. I like to help others it is just the way I am; especially when I see amazing models here struggling. As I am just a very basic journeyman model but have managed to earn a living and was never short of work shows that other girls can too without continuing to believe they are rubbish so need to work for big shot photographers for free. And until you accept that I will keep challenging what you are saying. Maybe you are just thinking only in a narrow high fashion editorial terms of what modelling is; but there is FAR more paid work below that. And the work does not often (though sometimes from those who realise they can get a good , expereinced and reliable model for a small fee on MM) come from photographers. And okay; so what if you end up getting £250 for another caution tape shoot? Even if I was to do a shoot for a photographer as thorough a craftsman as you with a bit of vision; how is that going to help me? I am never going to do much editorial; so it may look nice in my port but that is it. And I would add something to yours so tf isn't happening unless I needed it as I was starting off and was aiming at the top. You want a reliable model with a bit of experience we are here; you just have to use your head a bit and pay. And there are a hell of a lot that would be very suitable editorial image style models. What is your area do you want me to run a search for you? Now if you actually READ this you will begin to understand how models that DO work get paid without lobbing their tits out. And I have no problem with that for artistic reasons either so it isn't like I don't want to do that work. In fact; some boutiques and designers actually can be a bit funny about it; so being selctive in what kind of nude modelling you do is important.
Models and Compensation in Photography Talk
Once again a photogtrapher telling models how they earn their living; their potential, and they have to shoot nude. It doesn't matter I have over many threads now given you dozens and dozens of models or they have made themselves known to you who do earn a living. We know rarely photographers pay. THIRD PARTIES pay if its a photography gig and they pick the models not you. True don't EXPECT to get much paid work from MM. It is a portfolio hosting site. Use it to market yourself. It is the same as a photographer having their own website. Not much good to sell UNLESS you market yourself. Work seldom comes to those who wait. There will be lots of hobbysists true; and just as many photographers as models. No probs; each get paid or tf work from one another too. And not all photographers...in fact few....can be said to be using quality models either. They may THINK a good looking model is a quality model. You get what you pay for and you get paid for what you do; and quality frequently isn't a factor (as I stated with the caution tape thing). The market dictates what you do and at what level and I am not fussy - I'd rather do a cool idea for an average but nice photographer that pays than a great photographer who doesn't. And at the end of the day it isn't important to me because I get my main work from designers and boutiques; fit showroom small ad shoot website shoot etc. And what they do ie garment manufacture is quality; frequently the best. Am I bothered I don't always get the photos apart from the odd tear? No. I haven't even bothered updating my port for 18 months I still get the work. And as I keep asking you. If you have such contempt for MM models what the hell are you doing here? Certainly not to learn anything about modelling or you'd start listening to models who tell you how they do it. As was evident from your complete ignorance about fitting modelling in the other thread. Chances are most models are earning their living through similar work or niche markets or promo work or performance eg modelling in dance videos or stilt walkers or fetish stuff etc. But to you there are only high fashion models. They are here too; as I told you: three or four of the top London agency models I worked with before have MM ports. It beggars belief that you continue to judge us all by your limited knowledge of modelling and your own bad experinces trying to get models to work for free and apparently finding them unreliable. As I say; I keep out of photography threads because a little knowledge...can make one look a bit daft next to the experience of those who make a living from it..
Can't do fashion , get Naked ! in Photography Talk
Let's start with any discussion here on modeling is going be more mayhem than modeling. And it's deliberately designed to be so, modeling agents and managers are forbidden to post here, so level of actual expertise is limited (although some of the photographers have enough experience to comment accurately). Dealing with the statements as made: "I can't sell average models wearing clothes but I can sell average models nude." Who is this bozo? He doesn't "sell" models wearing clothes or not. What he means (I think) is that he can't sell PICTURES of models with clothes on. I will leave his confused rhetoric on fashion alone, no photographer in the industry "sells" fashion images, we are paid to shoot them on assignment for clients. Guys with cameras do "sell" pictures of naked girls (and guys) to websites, and that's the level this guy is apparently working at. As far as modeling is concerned, there are far more (far, far more) commercial models than there are fashion models. There is far more money paid (in the aggregate) to commercial models than to fashion models. However, fashion models are better know (by name), and individually generally make far more money than individual commercial models. However, "Flo", the model (don't know her name) who appears in a very popular series of commercial advertisements for an auto insurance company, is a commercial model making very hefty deposits to her bank account every day, and she has all her clothes on. The same is true of the two guys who provide comic relief in those same commercials (and are also going to the bank, with their clothes on!). As others have said, nobody gets naked faster than a fashion model ("The clothes don't make me look good. I make the clothes look good, and I want everyone to know that!"). Someone said fashion models have been getting naked "recently"? I don't know what recently is, but fashion models have been getting naked since I started in the business, and that was during the Grant administration. Strangely enough, nudity is less common with commercial models who may be asked to help market products like "Ivory Snow" (don't know why that particular product came to mind, hmmmm.....). But if you do run into someone who says that if you're not with IMG, the only way to make money as a model is to get naked, take two things to the bank: (1)that person is a GWC who's "contacts at Playboy" is the operator who answered his call and renewed his subscription. And (2), they are probably actively giving advice on these forums. John -- John Fisher 900 West Avenue, Suite 633 Miami Beach, Florida 33139 305 534-9322 http://www.johnfisher.com
In Texas if a photog. forgets to have a in General Industry
There's a little bit of good information in this thread and a whole lot of bad. Trust me, I'm a lawyer. 1. In the U.S., the photographer owns all rights to the photograph the minute he creates it. Unless he assigns his rights to someone else or it is a work made for hire (which doesn't mean what it sounds like it means), he and only he has the right to reproduce the work in copies, prepare derivative works based on the original work, distribute copies of the work by sale, rental, lease or lending, and display the work publicly. 2. In many U.S. states, and Texas is among them, OP, the subject of a photograph, if living, has certain publicity rights under the common law as explained in the link early in this thread. If the photographer appropriates a person's likeness for its value rather than its newsworthiness, and the person can be identified from the publication of that likeness, and if the photographer receives an advantage from the appropriation (typically commercial though not necessarily monetary), then an infringement of the subject's right of publicity has occurred. The subject of the photo can sue, but will have to prove damages. If the subject of the photo is not someone famous, it will almost certainly not be worth filing suit. 3. A model release is typically a document in which the model gives the photographer permission to use his or her likeness, essentially waiving his or her right of publicity. Most releases are very far reaching, and give the photographer the right to do just about anything, commercial or otherwise, that he might want to do with the photos. 4. Model releases are usually, but not always, signed by the model as consideration for something -- either a modeling fee or images to use in his or her portfolio, travel expenses, etc. 5. If a photographer intends to sell the images, say, for an ad campaign, the client of the photographer will, unless he is a complete idiot, require that the photographer has gotten a release from the model to protect him, the client, from a lawsuit by the model claiming his or her rights to publicity have been misappropriated. 6. Often a photographer, who owns all the rights to the photographs, will grant the model a usage license to use some or all the photographs. The license may be very broad, giving the model the right to reproduce and sell the images, but it is more likely to be restricted. For example, the license may give the model the right to use the photos for personal use on social media, and/or on the model's Web site for self-promotion. Often the model is restricted from selling the images. 7. The OP wanted to know if the photographer can use the images without a model release. Yes, he can, subject to the model's possible claims of misappropriation of his or her right to publicity. 8. Others have raised the issue of the value of signing a release by the model. The model really has nothing to gain by signing the release, except that most photographers who know what they're doing won't go forward without a signed release. So if he or she doesn't sign the release, he or she won't work and won't get paid, whether cash or trade. 9. The wise photographer, even one who is purely a hobbyist, will always require a release from the model. Who knows, some day the hobbyist photographer will be discovered as the true artist he is and his photographs will become valuable. If an ad agency decides it really wants that image of Suzy Creamcheese the photographer took years ago, but the photographer never got a release, then the ad agency will go elsewhere. It never hurts to require a release, and all but the most naive rookie models will sign one without question because that's just part of the way business is done. 10. What I've said here applies to the U.S. I understand that Canada's laws, and those of many other countries, are quite different. Y'all foreigners need to do your own homework.
Victoria Secret in Model Colloquy
And you DON'T contribute to these threads with your experiences to make yourself feel big and importnat telling models how to do their job when by your own admission you aren't going to ever pay them if you can help it? I have said those things because it has become all to easy for twats to put down the idea of neing a fit model as though it is lowly. Perhaps it is to some. BUT I imagine that other models would be quite inspired by the fact we get a few nice moments such as working with famous models. Do you HONESTLY think I am in the least bothered by the experience? I am a scientist and a geographer; this was a little pleasant detour for me and in the greater scheme of things all modelling to me is fairly unimportant. The design element is FAR more important to me. Which was another reason I enjoyed it. But all through most of my academic career and working life I socialise and work with people who I have the utmost admiration and respect for. You may not be impressed by the fact I have worked with the top sceintists in the world in my field; but to me they are my heroes and people I look up to. BUT I know others would realise that having the opportunity of working with famous models would be nice. Now. I have cited you a 5ft 2 " model on MM who appears to have been a fit model for VS. So that kind of negates the thrust of your argument. You know NOTHINg about fit - either the scale of people working in it, what we do, or why we get paid well. Other here are contemptuous about it and that is the only reason I have cited my runway excperience. Sharing one's field of experience for other is part of what I am doing here in forums. I made a living, had some memorable moments that I know other people would prize; and therefore want to say hey go for it it's cool. It is on my profile because it gets me some paid fashion show work for small boutiques etc because equally they appear impressed with it. But I do NOT get that work from forums; and I do NOT hang around in forums sharing my experiences to show off. That is a pathetic and ad hominem attack of the kind I have come to expect from you when defeated in debate. Now;' we have taken up enough of this thread with this; Tiffany has summed up the situation very well above and IF you had respected my insights it would never have gone on. But I know your game here is to put down models. And I simply will not have it when your experience is only the small bit of modelling work to which you aspire. Good luck with that you are a great photographer; but it shouldn't require you laying down your authoritah over models when you only know a small part of what we do. Because you and other narrow view photographers may think the op can't achieve a modelling career with VS doesn't mean her only option is to get her tits out. It isn't (and when it is models would be far better aiming at art institutions and artists as they ALL actually pay) . It will still be a hard ambition to get to even be a fit model; but it is possible. My experience shows EXACTLY that and that is why it is relevant. I do nudes true. BUT this has accounted for a tiny percentage of my paid work; but it has got me clothed work and art isntitution work. I have no issue with it so you know I am not a model who you think the only option is this and doesn't want to do it. But no doubt you will continue to trawl these forums telling us how to do our job and that boutiques don't pay models and other such utter drivel. My last boutique job got me £400 worth of clothing and £200. I think the least I have ever got is £75 and that was because it was for charity. I even get sent clothing to wear it to events from a major design house half way across the planet. You don't know the half. Of course Agencies are responsible for reliability of models so you have some kind of insurance; but if you have a good reputation as a freelance you can mop up the vast amount of work that is there which simply can't afford agency girls. And that def applies to fit. I have told you before Tony; references. Pay more for agency girls if you want but lots of people don't find it necessary because they want your references and then they don't get problems.
Victoria Secret in Model Colloquy
That's because they don't actually hire models. Here's how it works. You buy a template which comes with stock images of models in lingerie. You then get stock images of your product. Notice how most of the images don't show the models faces. That's because they are also being used on other sites. Hiring even non agency models is expensive and most companies are looking to save cash. One of the companies near the bottom appears to be using a plus model. That may be a model they hired. However in general they are not setting up shoots with amateur models petite or not. There isn't this wellspring of work for non agency standard models. Fit modelling which I'm not all that familiar with but I did some research uses non agency models but my best guess is there are more then plenty to do the work. Lets take Hanky Panky which is a big brand: http://www.hankypanky.com/ They do fashion shows and use non agency models of every size but if you review their site its a stock shot with more images again without the models faces showing. In HP's case with their shows they may pick models from the audience to model their things Companies just aren't looking to hire amateur models. They go to agencies to avoid flakes and bs. They tend to always use standard size models. I won't say every company but not enough won't to even talk about and that's why you don't see any information about 'working' for them as a model on their sites. I don't want to continue this debate about how things work in the UK because I live in America and so does the OP. However those who think I'm full of it. All the companies have a contact email. Write them and ask about becoming a model. Screw what I say or anybody else. Find out what they say and how they hire models.
Victoria Secret in Model Colloquy
It isn't exceptions: if you LOOK at castings for fit models as those of us who ARE or have been fit models do regularly you will realise that what a generalised article may say is not necessrily the whole picture. Again; you can read an article that says model are between 5ft 7 AND 5FT 8ins and size 4 or whatever yet I cited a solid example of a California dress company looking for a size 18 fit model on here recently. Now let us look at your cite. Perfect Fit is a Southern California fitting agency. No probs; but let us actually see what else is cited on their pages: "Fitting model: If you're someone who's a perfect size fill-in-the-blank and has dimensions that match fashion industry standards -- "plus," "petite" and "big and tall" sizes included -- you may find work as a fitting model with a clothing company or clothes designer" So in other words they come in ALL shapes and sizes which is what I have said. "The most successful fitting models who make six figures know how clothes are made, know how different fabrics behave, and are very knowledgeable about the line they're modeling." Which is why I stated that it IS an advantage to be a fan or work for the company in some other way; or have a knowledge or experience of garments. In my interview at AP I was able to demonstate an in depth knowledge of their products going back a long way. So Briana being a fan and working for the company already is an advantage IF she happens to see an opening for a fit job with them that her stats suit. That is unlikely; which is why I suggested looking at other lingerie companies; as she may suit what someone is looking for. If I hadn't got the AP job I'd have maybe got another one with someone else as I had several interviews that week. For every job I saw over a month or so I was the wrong stats for 90% of them but still managed to get several interviews lines up. Most of them I actually saw were for size 12 women. These aren't catwalk clothes they are making they are the real thing to fit real women. "A successful fitting model can earn between $750 and $1,500 a day, Roberrts noted. On an hourly basis, you might earn between $200 and $275, Levine said. And you might work three-to-five days a week, for between five and eight hours a day." Which is what I have said: few other modelling jobs offer such security in terms of job longevity, good pay and hours guaranteed. Not that I earned that; and I thought my pay was good. So they are talking about the top paying companies. My partner is a designer and told me this morning that the small factory in which he had his first collection made up had three fit models on the staff. They wouldn't have been paid anything like that and all had other duties. So fit models at the level being talked about are also just the top of the iceberg. In a recession small fashion companies are not going to book fit models at those wages through agencies; but there are an awful lot of them. If you are making garments you need fit models. That is an awful lot of work for a lot of girls besides the forty earning that kind of money in So Cal. "The model is the one that gives (designers and seamstresses) the direction of how to make the garment," Levine said. "The model can make or break your sales." Which again is what I have said: a good fit model is HIGHLY valued by the company; and they do not want to lose them. So; if you are going to research a field which you don't know a great deal about make sure you research your own citations thoroughly rather than cherry picking something that appears to support one part of what you are saying assuming I won't read it. I did; and most of it supports what I have said. As far as most models getting work through an Agency of course an agency is going to say that!!!! And it is likely true when it comes to the $1500 a day jobs!! But yes there is nothing wrong with trying for an agency and they do place a lot of girls - with the small minority of companies that will pay high agency fees for fit models. But lots won't or can't and still pay well.
Victoria Secret in Model Colloquy
Oh here we go again. I have had it with people like photographers and everyone else telling me , a professional fitting model, what fitting models do and don't do. Firstly; the idea of the work not being steady compared with being an agency model or a photographic model is an absolute nonsense. YOU ARE GENERALLY PAYROLLED and pay tax PAYE. THAT is how regular it is. Secondly obviously you have to travel to where the head office is. So if you apply for a fit modellng job and get it you will have to move if you are miles from it. For things like merchandise catalogies they generally don't use agency models for everything. I did a few shoots. That IS going to happen if you are a fit model because you look like you have been poured into the stuff; whereas an agency model isn't going to have the same stats generally; has to be pinned from behind etc... but they will want a well known model or face of the brand obviously where they can. If it is a big company naturally they will use agency models for their website and much of the catalogue work; and for runway shows. But you do get a shot at doing a bit of it; and a lot of the parts stuff. But for smaller companies - particularly vintage style lingerie ones they will often go for models specialising in that look who are again often the fit models. AP had so much work I couldn't do it all; and I would still be doing it now if I hadn't moved away to do a PhD. They still ask me back regularly. This is three years on. When you have a brand like Agent Provocateur or I suppose perhaps VS over there; there is a strong pride in working for the company. That often goes from the girls in the shop, to the office girls, to the fit models, to the designers. With AP to get that pink iconic uniform you must want it; and wear it with the pride. The girls in the shops do; they look amazing; and would have KILLED for my job; and customer loyalty is that strong that even the customers want the uniforms. I am telling you this because I think Brianna feels the same kind of loyalty to VS. She may not ever get to wear the wings; she may not even get to do a catalogue shoot. She may get to work in the shop; and maybe do a bit of fit for a small lingerie designer to get some experience; and who knows one day she could be the fit model; and even do a parts shoot for a catalogue. A dream maybe; but not altogether an fantasy. It is something I achieved for what I think is a far more prestigous company in terms of class and edge; and did runway with Silvia Dimitrova. And there is nothing special about me. Just 5ft 6ins and 29 years old when I did that my first proper fashion show. And I didn't try that hard; but I didn't have anyone telling me I was dreaming when I went for the job or that it wasn't regular etc etc A lot of girls who start on the shop floor graduate to working higher up in the company too. They may start off wanting to do my job; but they can end up being part of the team in an altogether more important role in head office. Dreams often have unexpected diversions which can be good. But just because a girl has aspirations to be a model or part of the team for Agent Provocateur in some way because they love the brand doesn't mean they expect to get Monica Cruz Kylie Minogue or Daisy Lowe job. In any case; they get to wear the stuff for a day shooting I got to wear it every day; and it is built on my body!! so stuff those of you who think fit modelling is somehow low. So I imagine it is the same for Briana with VS. When I walked in and out of the office there would often be an immaculately turned out 17 year old rockabilly girl or two just wanting a glimpse of the interior or their picture taking with one of us or an autograph. I know when they said they wanted to be a model for AP they would at least end up one day working in a shop; working in the office as an intern, or maybe even working as a fit model. And there is nothing wrong with that. Indeed; as I said that uniform is highly treasured. Look down your nose at it at your peril.
Victoria Secret in Model Colloquy
I am getting pretty dam annoyed with this. A photographer telling models how to make a living and what's available etc. YOU HAVE NO CLUE how a model gets her work together because your experience of modelling is a small percentage of the type of work available; and it is focussed at the pinnacle: well there is a pretty huge pyramid underneath it. You apparently have NO understanding of the scale and amount of work offered just by fitting. EVERY company who make stuff needs fit models and they are ALL paid. With small companies it is a few weeks a year or a bit now and again. With bigger companies they can employ fitting models of all shapes and sizes. In both cases the chances are you will do some shooting, some runway. In addition to all this there is the boutique work. Unless they are going to go to the expense of running a campaign with an ad company they are NOT going to use agency models. The average boutique owner would just laugh at that. You are in CUCKOO land if you think that is going to happen. Hell I have done shoots and little shows regularly where I alone or with one or two others are the token pro models brought in to show the shop girls and the clients how to do it; because that is all the budget they have. They may employ a photographer but they get the models. Yes; we have all seen the faces of some of you guys when you think you are going to get Kate Moss and you get us. Then we get appreciated when and only when you see us actually work. You keep talking about doing things like Dove editorials. For every model that does that there are a hundred possibly a thousand doing just the boutique and fit work for designers plus all the catalogue and parts shoots. One of my colleagues does almost exlusively hands; but does some fit also for a lingerie company. I have done hand shoots too. Another girl does shoes and a bit of fit and a bit of fashion college and life drawing. Then there are all those who do the corporate and promo work with a bit of fashion etc. then the alt girls. Huge in London; there are even character agencies like UGLY - some of the girls I know are with them; but again they get most of the work themselves. Some do styling, MUA etc too; but they still do a fair bit of modelling. YES you have to work hard, be reliable, be versatile etc BUT if you do those things the work is sometimes THROWN at you - hence the need for a network of other reliable models who can cover for you. Photography is needed and sometimes it pays but if your port is getting you work that is all you need UNLESS you have aspirations to do editorial. Most of us DO NOT. I guess companies have had bad experiences too with booking models who are also agency signed only to lose them a few weeks into a collection fit: disaster. I won't audition unless it pays or shoot unless it says because I DO NOT HAVE To to get the kind of work I was inundated with. Juggling existing commitments with new work was always the hardest and often having to give away peach jobs regular and well paid because you are already doing it for somone else. The Op is NOT going to get to be the kind of model you keep talking about; neither am I, and neither are most of the girls here. BUT if they set their sights realistically it is not difficult to earn a living modelling. There is PLENTY of work; it just may not be very glamorous to do fit or showroom or fashion college or promo or catalogue or regional ad/advertorial/editorial work etc. Now. I talked about football. You talk basketball: I know nothing about that. But in soccer there are HUNDREDS of teams; below the three divisions below the premiership. They are NOT amateur: they are paid. they don't earn thousands a week, but they earn a living. You may never hear of these teams if you don't live local to them. Thousands of professional footballers. Likewise in photography. A TINY minority of you will ever get anything published in a top fashion mag. Do we get in the photography forums saying stop dreaming you'll never earn a living at photography? NO. Why? Because obviously we know a lot of photographers who are happy with their little business making a living shooting all the weddings, family portraits, shooting the local Indian restaurant interior for an ad, doing an event or a sport etc etc. They ALL may do a bit of fashion/glamour for enjoyment/practice and if lucky may graduate to do the odd nice fashion editorial for the local mag or boutique. But I just couldn't conceive of putting those guys down just because it didn't register on my radar because I had my aspirations set on being a big shot fashion model. THAT is the equivalent of what you are doing in these threads - simply because you have NO CONCEPT of all the bulk of mostly mundane modelling work below the top of the iceberg. It is insulting as much as it is ignorant of what many of us do. If I hear ONCE MORE that there are only agency fashion models and the girls who get their tits out and other than that just one or two mighty lucky tiny girls who make it doing Dove commercials I swear I am going to scream!!!!!! Can't you see it is like us saying to a photographer well either you have to shoot top fashion models or you have to shoot tits and there is NO other paid work??????? Maybe the odd model with her head stuck up her own arse may think that is the only way photographers make a living but most of us realise what else they do. Now...you earlier questioned my credibility as a payrolled model for a top fashion house. Once more; would you like me to send you proof of my PAYE tax payslips? And if I do; will you apologise? Because I think you are going to have to see it to believe it that every big clothing manufacturer has girls like us working for them and earning a living.
Is Facebook killing Model Mayhem. in General Industry
It is so odd that this thread came up when it did. I just closed down my regular Facebook account and opened up another one strictly for models. This happened on Wed and as of today I have 18 models who have friended me. Model Mayhem was just not doing it for me so I tried an experiment. Any model who wanted to work with me as in serious and not yanking my chain had to friend me on Facebook. It worked. The last model that flaked on me, two weeks ago in fact, said she did not have a Facebook page but she sure texted a lot. No surprise. No Facebook, no shoot. Totally flaked. Facebook, in a sense, is like a model talking to you without her sunglasses on. She can't hide behind a wall of texts or messages. Her life is in the open and therefore, they will be more forth coming. My first model to follow the Facebook rule actually showed up for the shoot. We are scheduled for another one in December if she can make it back to the island. She's from the mainland US. I have come to the realization that Model Mayhem has reached a point where models feel it is actually expected and even tolerated for them to flake. Model Mayhem is no longer for professionals. The site does nothing regarding flakes and the reputation is starting to stick. And it's not like MM has not been warned by it's members, it has, dozens of times. MM in effect is become a site full of bloat. Yep, empty calories. With all that in mind, photographers are now forced to find other venues with more reliable sources and Facebook has become that alternative. On my Facebook modeling page, I only allow models and those directly related to the modeling industry. No friends, family or photographers. Because of that, I am denying a lot of friend requests. Then again, in a matter of three day's, I have approved 18 people who are interested in modeling for me. Will they? Who knows. What I do know is that Facebook targets models who are interested in me and my work. What do I offer models who join my FB page? Updates on my work, casting calls and more importantly, I provide them with news and articles which are focused on the modeling industry. No jokes, no religion, no politics, witty sayings etc. I strictly post modeling stuff, nothing else. It's what the models want. Add that Facebook is a direct annex to my website, I seem to have a winner. It seems to be working. MM really needs to get it's act together. Stuffing this site with tons of no call/no show folks and bloating membership numbers with people who have not been on the site for one, two or more years is bringing down it's viability as a serious resource for modeling and photography. Facebook is slowly eating MM's lunch. -Koa- www.borikenwarrior.com www.facebook.com/borikenwarriorstudiosmodels
Fabulous people appreciation thread in General Industry
In no particular orer of Awesomeness; models, MUAs and others with whom I've worked and lived to tell the tale: Laura Slater - Model #1611878 Laura is the kind of model and indeed type of person, that makes Model Mayhem work (when it does works). Not only is she beautiful but she conducts herself like a true professional. She has great communication skills and is quick to respond. Laura does her own make-up to a high standard and got up at 4:30am to arrive on time for our shoot. She is wlling to trek, climb, trudge, get stung, and fight of stray Llamas all for the sake of her art. Laura, you were a complete joy to work with. Shaz - Model # 2583503 Shaz is beautiful, professional and has a wonderful physique. She has great communication skills and arrived bang on time after travelling half way up the country. Hoping we can shoot together again soon. I wouldn't hesitate to thoroughly recommend her. Elesha Eden - Model # 2475901 A wonderful girl to work with. Faultless communications. Drove 4 hours for the shoot and arrived early. Endearingly shy and beautiful. Nicky Hayden - mua - # 1403447 Nicky was great fun to work with and a creative professional. Her eye for wardrobe was a bonus too. Looking forward to working with her again. Emily Griffith - Model # 2608218 Dancer and all round nice person. An untapped talent. Rachel Betteridge Model # 2174115 Rachel is a warm and friendly person and was great fun to shoot. Carla Shepherd - Model # 2398590 A beautiful, professional and easy model to shoot. Gabrielle - Model # 588142 A creative and bendy traffic stopping crowd pleaser! Great fun working with you Gabs. : ) Darcy Jaq - Model # 2263038 A beautiful woman with a very adaptable face and look. A great professional and now a good friend. Claire O'Brien - mua #2287319 Claire bailed me out big time when a another mua had to cancel 24hrs before an all day shoot. Claire's a true professional, a seriously talented artist and a delight to work with. Claire Glauch - mua # 2284881 Wonderful mua and great fun to be on a shoot with. What more could one want. I hope she'll put up with me again. : ) Mandy Swan - # Model 512920 A very professional and fascinating woman. Elle-Rose - Model # 881729 Her portfolio says more than I ever could, and much more articulately. She is a consumate professional; ethereally beautiful. Natalie Green - model: #2289016 Wonderful model, great communication, beautiful smile, fantastic personality, wonderful company and a real professional. Stuart Reardon - model: #2225474 Top athlete, all round nice guy! Jamie Deacon - model: #2093520 Beautiful, intelligent, modest, professional and a joy to work with. Sarah Vaites - MUA: #1732977 Pleasure to work with, talented, willing, unassuming and professional.
Editing Turnaround Time for model Comp Cards in Photography Talk
Hi All, I'm looking to get a little information about everyones workflow for handling comp card photo sessions. I've been working with an agency for a little while and it seems like it's just taking forever to get the models orders for thier comp cards fulfilled. I'm not sure where to really begin, so I'll describe the process I've been going through: 1) Agency books sessions with models and I (usually 3-4 models in a singe day) 2) Shoot the sessions 3) I "rough edit" (straighten, color-correct, remove glaring imperfections) and upload the digital proofs to an online gallery (one gallery for each model) 4) model makes his/her selections for comp card (the sessions include 4-5 outfits) 5) Model reviews selections with agency 6) Agency lets me know which shots to fully retouch. 7) I deliver shots to model/agency on a disc. I'm experiencing a LOT of lag time from when I get the proofs uploaded to when the models make their final selections and I can finally get the retouching done and deliver the finished photos. I don't know if the lag is coming from the models taking their time on the selections or the agency not letting me know right away. Either way it's frustrating to have this process take so long. I've waited for 3-4 weeks to hear back about the final selections and as a result I get more urgent jobs in the meantime and to finally get the edits done puts me at about 2-3 weeks to get the final selections back. Understandably the models are miffed about it taking so long. I'm looking for advice for ways to get this streamlined. Would it be better to work with the models directly and go over the shoots with the models myself (Isn't this preferred anyway?) Do you usually book a follow-up appointment to review the proofs with the models? Is it normal for an agency to approve models photos for use in their comp cards (this is a beginner agency, by the way. The models have pretty much no experience)? I enjoy doing modeling photography and I don't mind helping out aspiring models, but this process is really discouraging me from trying to pursue this with the agencies in my town. Any advice is appreciated!
I'm confused again... o_O in Model Colloquy
A photographer who says he can get a model in Playboy should immediately raise some eyebrows - but there are many reasons why the credits may not match. Models can and do change their modeling names on MM. When I upload a photo, I show the modeling name the model was using at the time of the shoot on my list of credits. I don't check back regularly to see if any of the models has changed her modeling name. There are other possible explanations. I shot a model (who is not on MM), and the makeup was done by a professional MUA - whose account on MM is as a model, not an MUA. When I entered the model's MM number on the credits after uploading, it showed the MUA as the model. As soon as I discovered that it was confusing, I removed the credit. But still... There's a photo of an MUA in my portfolio. She is shown as the MUA but not as the model, although she was both. Also, I may add a model under Credits, then later remove the photo because it no longer represents my best work - but the model's name is still on the list. Sometimes I add the model's name to the list before I've done the post-processing and uploaded a photo. Or I may decide after a shoot not to upload any photos from the shoot. There are two models on my Credits list that I've shot with, but I forgot to have the model sign a release at the end of the shoot. I emailed them my release form as a PDF file. Both said they would sign and return them - but I’m still waiting for the releases after 2-3 months. So I can't use the photos in my portfolio (although the models have the photos in theirs). I could demand that they remove the photos - but is it really worth it?
Do models know what 'better' means? in General Feedback
One of the other problems is where is the photo to be used, a photographers portfolio may have different images then what is in a models portfolio. That is the photographer may have more artistic images that would work in galleries or matted and framed hanging on a wall as a piece of art, so it could be a perfect image in the artistic sense but for showcasing a model just not working. Just a guess, but 10% of new models portfolios suffer from image quality. Number one offender is a grainy cell phone image with motion blur , this is just not a quality image. [Yes some of the new cell phones actually do a good job now days, so this may be a fading term] Since we can not critique the photographers work in a models portfolio, when the term better photographers is used, so do the models know what is meant? For me a quality modeling image should have these qualities, in this order of importance [Chime in if you think order should be changed, or item added or deleted] 1: Models eyes should be in focus [Master guide if both eyes are not in focus then eye closest to camera to be in focus] 2: The eyes should have sufficient light so they are easily seen. [Remember modeling portfolio] 3: Best when the eyes are looking where the nose is pointed. [That is eyes should not be locked to one side, looking up so high that a band of white is under the iris “Canoe eye”] [Side note, please don’t process the white of the eyes so they look like they would glow in the dark] 4: The best image is achieved when proper body cropping is followed, don’t crop below first joint [Rules or guides are there because some great artist before us figured this out, so if photographers were smart they would not try to re-invent the wheel, and just use what works] 5: The over all image should have good exposure of both the model and background [The sky should not be blown out, or have over exposed areas of models face, hands, etc.] 6. Good composition, if the model is facing photo right, walking or running toward photo right space should be in front of model so she has some area to move into, and less space behind her [Rule of thirds, Golden Spiral, Golden Triangle and all the other compositional layouts should be applied] 7: Good lighting, quality light, flattering light [Not shooting in high noon style light unless fill flash, scrims or what ever corrective measures are used] 8: Using correct lens, if doing a head shot don’t use a wide angle lens as facial elements will be distorted [Nose looks like it is bigger then life] 9: Correct color, if it’s a white top it should be white in the photo [Correct color balance, i.e. yes shooting at sun rise or set, white will not look white] 10 Background should not be busy and competing with model, bright areas can distract the viewers eyes [Normally a background that is out of focus and of muted color complementing the models eyes or wardrobe will work best {head shot vs. clothing shot}] 11: Things not working for a models portfolio would be the “glare photos” where the model is totally obscured by lens flair [Remember the model shoul be showcased, not producing a work of art, for a photographers portfolio or wall art] opinions
Setting up dates with photographers in General Industry
Scheduling can be difficult at times. A time slot that is open one day may not be open the next. There have been times when I approached a model about doing a shoot, and by the time the model responded to me, I had booked another model. Sometimes when time is important (an unexpected availability, a publication deadline, etc.) it's just not a good idea to contact just one model and hope for a response. Just as an example, almost three months ago a magazine contacted me to ask me to do a shoot on short notice (to replace a photo that had been yanked because they found that the model had not signed her own name to the model release). I searched MM and found 60+ local models who met the criteria. I narrowed the list to 16 and PM'd them. This was 3-4 days before the deadline. While every one of them responded to me, ten of them responded after the deadline had passed. The last one responded four days ago. Of those who responded before the deadline, only three said they could do the shoot. I selected one and scheduled the shoot - for about six hours before the magazine's deadline. Btw, the shoot never happened. As I was approaching the location, a suburban park, I phoned the model to see if she had arrived there yet. She said her 13-year-old (not a typo) daughter was backing a car out of the driveway and dragged her (the model's) boyfriend down the driveway. The model went home to deal with that. At that point, I couldn't reach my next choice. About a week ago, a clothing designer from out of state contacted me to shoot three models on July 3. She had already selected one model (who would have been my first choice among local models), two MUA's and a hair stylist. I suggested three other local models to her to fill the other two spots - then PM'd the models to let them know that she might be contacting them. Last time I checked (one minute ago) one of the models still hadn't read her MM mail from me - nor, presumably, from the clothing designer. The moral: Check your MM mail regularly. (I'm not saying you didn't. I really don't know the circumstances.) If it's something you're inerested in doing, respond quickly. If only to say, "I'm at work. I'll check my calendar and get back to you this evening." Models on MM collectively have a horrible reputation when it comes to responding to PM's. (So do photographers apparently, but I can't attest to that.) Hence photographers often contact several models in hopes of getting a response from one of them. Often I've seen photographers suggest to other photographers in the forums that, rather than book a single model for a TF shoot, they book three for the same time and hope one shows up. (Fortunately I haven't had reason to do that. Well, maybe I should have once.) I've seen several photographers report that their flake rate (models who agree to a shoot, then don't show up and don't call) is 50% or higher. If the only thing that happened is that photographer's availability changed between the initial contact and your response, I wouldn't worry about it.
How Backlogged Are You? in Photography Talk
Most of what's below applies only to TF shoots. Paid work always comes first. I think some models have no idea what a photographer does after the shoot. When the shoot ends, it's finished for the model, MUA, etc. For the photographer, it's just beginning. The last weekend in May I shot one model (studio and location) for five hours on Friday. On Saturday, I shot three models for nine hours. On Sunday, three models for seven hours. We're talking about roughly 1,600 images. I was already behind then, and I haven’t shot since – because I’m trying to do some catching up on post-processing first. Just selecting which images to post-process literally takes more time than the shoot itself. A lot more. Did I mention that I still have a day job? I work through one wardrobe/makeup/hair/background set at a time. First I weed out the obvious rejects. Then in several stages I look at each image at various magnifications, in some cases up to 100%, and then give each one that's not eliminated a 3-star rating in ACR. Each time I go through those that remain, I look for unsharp images, eyes closed, awkward hand positions, bland expressions, unflattering lighting (the lights are generally stationary through a set; the model isn't) – any reason to eliminate each one. I also look at various croppings. Each time I go through them, I eliminate the star rating for those that that don't make the cut. The others either stay at 3 or get 4 stars. Each pass takes longer, because the differences become more minute. Usually I end up with about 3-6 images with 5-star ratings for each set. Finally I pick the one from each set (if any) that I want to use in my own portfolio. Time permitting, I may retouch 1-2 more so the model can have a choice. I have done some TF shoots because I liked the model and wanted to help build her portfolio – knowing that most likely I wouldn't get anything to add to my own portfolio. (Not lately, though.) I'm very picky about retouching. I'm also not the fastest with Photoshop (which I started using around October 1). By the time I'm finished with an image, I may have 20+ layers of post-processing in Photoshop. Sometimes the initial direction I take an image in isn't working and I start over at Square 1. It's not uncommon to spend over an hour with an image. It’s not unheard of to spend more than three hours. (Yes, some of the first ones I did I want to re-do – when I have the time.) Rarely do I process more than one image from a shoot at a time. Since I have several shoots (and models) pending, I'll do one image for one model, then one for another model, etc., rotating through the shoots and models. Sometimes when I'm behind (which has been the norm since before the first of the year), or when getting the look I want in an image is beyond my current Photoshop capabilities, I farm some images out to a professional retoucher – at about $20 per image. Currently I have more than six days of shooting in various stages of post-processing. Paid work always takes precedence. For paid jobs, I deliver whatever was agreed to. When I do a TF shoot, a model can expect at least 1-2 images from each set; That has been in my profile since Day 1. So far no models have complained. I’m always up front about the fact that I am way behind on retouching and that paid work always comes first. However, two models have asked for ALL of the images from a shoot – after the shoot, of course. If a model specifies a time limit for delivery of images before the shoot, I just don’t shoot with her. If a model requests (what to me is) an unreasonable number of images or asks for the unretouched images, I refer her to my profile. The answers to those requests have been there since Day 1. When I shoot, my goal is not to see how many images I can cram on a CD or a DVD. My goal is to produce at one least one finished, true portfolio-quality image per set. That has been in my profile since Day 1. I was taught at an early age (15) that a professional photographer shows only his best work. I don't give out unretouched images, and I don't allow anyone else to retouch my photos except a professional retoucher working under my direction. That has been in my profile since Day 1, too. I've heard horror stories (some of them in previous forum threads) from other photographers who don't have those policies about substandard photos (with substandard or no retouching) appearing in MM, Facebook and elsewhere – credited to the photographer. I’d rather be shooting than retouching. The more time I spend retouching, the less time I have for shooting – and the more models I have to say 'no' to. The amount of time I can devote to TF decreases each month.
Touch me not Models in General Industry
Working in a different part of the world may offer some perspective to this dilemma you all seem to be having. The more I read this thread, the more I only shake my head in frustration over how stupid some people can get. And here is why: 1) Modelling is a profession much like everything else we do in life. As stated earlier, Fashion Models are not touched, they are manhandled, and they have to live with it. The same for Agency models that are pure professionals. Why wouldn't this go for MM models or Internet models as well? Are they a different breed? It makes one wonder.... 2) I usually have atleast a make-up artist with me on the set when I shoot, especially when doing glamour or pin-up because of the extreme make-up involved. However, rarely do I ask the MUA to do shit other than keep an eye on the make-up. Adjusting is something I do myself, as I know exactly how I want it. This goes for almost everything, except their pubic area. I have never had issues, always returning models, and no problems. But then again, I never do TFPs. Always paid work, and mostly from Agencies. 3) Being a model is more than just standing there and look pretty and hope for the best. Some of the model behavior in here flat out grosses me out. Why the hell are you models in the first place? The personal space thing is null and void the MOMENT you show up for a shoot. I never ask permission to do anything. I always say: "excuse me...." and do what I need to do. Simple. But even then, its very important to have a 10 minute meeting ahead of the shoot explaining the rules. It works wonders. Personal space be damned. I agree with the OP that models like that have no future in the industry. What really bugs me the most is that the models here actually have most of the photographers agreeing with them that "never touch me." I agree that perhaps they have met a few too many GWCs, a few too many gropers for other reasons than professionalism, but hey, met a few very unprofessional girls too. Same thing, just different reasons behind the unprofessionalism. I dont say that its ok to "grope" a model. Of course it isnt. I never touch a model for other than getting my pictures perfect. Period. Feeling up a model never even occured to me to do. And most models know this already, especially the professionals. But models coming into this business with the idea that they will be left alone is sadly mistaken. Its a rough business, and survival of the fittest. If you prove not worthy to work with, then you lose work. Strange that last time I saw Kate Moss being photographed (was videod by the magazine, just cant for the life of me remember which one), she was both touched and GROPED by the photographer, and it was like a normal part of the day for her. As long as its not meant in any sexual way, and is for professional means, it shouldnt bother the model at all. Maybe I am a bad communicator then. Maybe I need to visualize. Who cares? My advice to photographers who encounter issues with this. Use professionals. Doesnt cost THAT much to hire them, if you keep away from the supermodels. Bottom line is that I have done this for a few years now and never ever had issues. NEVER. I touch my models as I see fit to get the images I need. They know this BEFORE we start shooting, as I dont have to lose focus by asking later on. But, I never grope their pubes or boobs. Thats a big no no for me too. But anything else is fair game. And the models are fine with it. And unless you work with amateurs, they know this already. If they dont, they have some issues themselves. Get used to it or get out. Easy as that. Now, flame me too, I couldnt care less. EDIT: realized this is an old thread. I humbly apologize.
problems with boyfriend escorts in General Industry
Well, I tend to stay off of these threads because people tend to get really wound up and say awful things to people that they really don't know very well, but I felt compared to share a few thoughts along with a couple of experiences that I have had with "Escorts" who are also "Boyfriends" or "Husbands"... The whole argument about photographers secretly wanting to get laid is funny to me because this whole dynamic is based off of how males and females interact in dating scenarios. I say that to say if a photographer is seeking to get laid at the conclusion of a photoshoot it's probably because he either has in the past, or is confident that he can in the present. This is because there are "Models" out there and on this site that openly offer "extras" at shoots because they are using MM to hustle. When it comes to dealing with women, men tend to do whatever works. If you are getting hit on or propositioned at shoots, blame the models that are sleeping with photogs for money. (sorry-Psycology Major) I have only been shooting for about 4 years now, but I stopped allowing escorts after my 5th shoot. In these 5 shoots I learned some very important and life saving lessons: 1. A model who cannot do her job without her boyfriend present is a potential serious problem. These girls give you all kinds of reasons why they cannot and will not shoot without an escort and they always ask you to trust that thier escort will behave themselves. I always ask them if thier escort acts up at the shoot, what they would be prepared to do about it, and they always answer by saying "That won't happen". I had a model who brought her boyfriend with her to a shoot with me. The shoot was outdoors and it was clothed (Swimwear). When he met me and saw that I was tall, young (fairly, anyway) somewhat attractive (I guess) and in good shape, he pulled her to the side and asked if they could leave. You see, not all of us are in our fifties and sixties, married and bald or fat. The model said no to the boyfriend and we began the shoot. The boyfriend spent the next 2 hours pacing behind me back and forth, banging his hands against his forehead and talking to himself loudly. Eventually he spazzed and kicked over a stand with one of my lights on it. The light was damaged and did not work anymore. I cancelled the shoot of course, but not only did the model not control her escort, she felt that she was still owed every penny that was agreed upon for the shoot due to the fact that she showed up and did her part. I gave her half, though I knew I should not have, but she basically dared me to be an asshole and I let her get away with it. You see that day I learned that the models typically don't care if you get what you need from a shoot as long as they get what they need. She had pissed her boyfriend off and they were in a full fledged argument in the middle of the shoot and that argument resulted in me having to buy new stuff. So I took my lumps and chalked it up as experience... 2. Models always assume that in a photoshoot scenario, that they are always the ones that are in danger of being hurt or taken advantage of. The fact is in a situation like this neither person knows the other very well, and that element alone can even the sides very effectively. I rented a very nice hotel suite and scheduled a shoot with a model. She asked if she could bring someone with her...you guessed it, her "Boyfriend". I reluctantly agreed because I had already paid for the room and did not want to risk not having the shoot at all. They showed up and I was setting up. The model came over and greeted me and so did the boyfriend. He took a seat in the living area while I continued to set up the model went into the bathroom to change and do her make-up. The boyfriend came over to where I was (I had my back to him) and called out to me. When I turned around there were two guys instead of one, and I was asked to set my phone down on the bed along with my wallet and leave EVERYTHING. I gave a look like "yeah, right" and that's when the second guy showed me the gun behind his back. I did what they asked and I left. Needless to say I had to rebuild my equipment inventory from scratch...camera, lenses, lighting, the whole nine...as it turned out, the plan always was to rob me from the very beginning. When I exited the hotel, shaking by the way because I so almost got shot, I got into my car and drove away. I called the cops, but nothing ever happened. I learned that day, that escorts are a responsibility that I just cannot ever deal with again. They break stuff, they steal and they sometimes attempt to direct your shoot by holding thier girlfriends hostage emotionally by showing thier disapproval without ever saying a word. I do not force models to come alone if they don't feel safe. In fact, I tell them if they don't feel safe to stay at home, because if they think something is going to happen by working with me, then it would be stupid of the to show up. I know I wouldn't come if I thought I was going to be taken advantage of. I offer meet and greets the day before a shoot, and the models can bring whoever they want. Some take it and some don't depending on logistics. I also offer to speak with models over the phone. At the end of the day policies are a reflection of people's personal experiences. Photogs that frown on escorts are not all up to no good. I look at it like this: If I am paying, why should I be forced into a situation where I am uncomfortable simply because you as the model, think I should. Some girls don't bring escorts because they have never had anything happen them where they feel like they need one, and most realize that it sometimes costs you jobs. I don't fault people either way. I no longer work with newbies unless thay have extensive ports and references, but even then it's a crapshoot, because after all, you don't put down the jobs where you acted a fool. That would be counter-productive. I lean towards very experienced, travelling, professionals models because they have a much longer track record and they may have something to lose by bahving in a way that is less than prefessional. I've just decided that I have to save money to work with those types of models, because in the beginning, my budget was the reason that I did not attempt to hire those models in the first place. And speaking of money, do people even realize how expensive a photoshoot is? Why spend hundreds of dollars to hire a model and hope she'll sleep with you? For the cost of a half day shoot, you could almost hire three hookers and get guaranteed sex. Anyway, I've talked long enough...
$20 Casting calls in Model Colloquy
...my guess is she goes home with more than she started with. ? I think anyone can figure out why someone might offer and why someone might accept a $20 shoot. a) Will all models accept a $20 offer? Nopes. But not all models will accept a $50/hr offer. No photographer and no model with any common sense expects that their requirements will be acceptable to all potential collaborators. b) There seems to also be a slight to models who do accept a $20 offer. Do photographers expect high-profile, experienced, published models to accept the offer? Probably not. But there *are* experienced models (models who have done a lot of shoots) who are willing to accept the $20 offer. It is possible to get what you want from a model for $20. Everyshoot is different. Every model is different. c) A photographer might offer $20 for a shoot that they consider TF, but they want to try to help ensure the model doesn't cancel. In my experience, the cancellation rate *is* lower when a modest 'gas stipend' is offered. Bottom line: it's a $20 shoot and even if the model spends $10 on gas and/or parking, the model has $10 that they didn't have before. Again, every individual will decide what's worth their time. Would I expect $20 to entice a model who doesn't like my work to shoot with me? Nopes. But if the model *does* like my work, maybe that, plus $20, makes the job a little more worth her time. d) As far as photographers who never offer more than $20... A photographer might be a hobbyist and they figure, depending on how many shoots they do per year, that they can afford to pay each model $20. Should they expect to work with every model they like? Nopes. But there are plenty of criteria by which a model might refuse to work with a specific photographer. I doubt a $20 photographer is any less aware of that fact than a photographer who is paying $120/hr. e) As far as photographers who never offer more than $20... Maybe the photographer is a professional and that's what he's willing to pay a specific model b/c that's what he thinks the model is worth...or b/c that's what he/she thinks the specific job is worth. The model will either accept the offer or not. I just assume, again, each photographer knows there will always be a reason for a model not to accept the job. f) If you're in New York you're probably aware that there are lots of small theater groups paying actors $50 or $60 as compensation for their participation in a play. That often includes all the rehearsal time and a run of 12 performances. There are always artists who can offer very little in terms of compensation and there are always artists for whom even a small payment is worth their time. And sometimes there are artists (and, yes, I'm gonna argue that there is plenty of GOOD talent, willing to work for very little) for whom the earnings are not the primary motivation even. Again, the justifications are numerous and specific to each individual. I think it makes for pretty good common sense. g) For some people $20 *is* a lot of money. I recognize that fact and would don't want presume to say what is or is not a lot of money to someone. Diff strokes for diff folks.
Modeling and getting paid in Model Colloquy
Let's talk about getting paid. This is more for models but photographers can chime in too. And mainly I am posting this because I get messages from "models" all the time asking how to get paid. Ladies and gentlemen, you can't just wake up one day and decide that you want to get paid. If you are not with an agency and you are working as a freelance model then you need to build a portfolio and market the hell out of yourself. Because honestly as models we are a product. But it doesn't just take beautiful images to get to the professional level, and if it was just images then anyone could photoshop themselves and brand themselves a pro. It takes experience, knowledge of posing, being able to express and emote, and being able to inspire who you work with. But not everyone can be a model, you either have "IT" or you don't. And if you have been modeling for years and haven't gotten to the level of pro then maybe you should find another job/hobby. A model will get paid by (a) a photographer who want to improve their skills (b) a photographer that really loves your look and can't live without it in their book (c) hobbyists or gwc's who just want to spend some time with a pretty girl OR (d) a client who hires a model and photographer, and both parties get paid. There are standards in this industry for a reason. Don't question them or complain that they are there. They won't change for you. Deal with them, understand them, and move on. Because I am 100% sure that there are millions of girls out there who either fall into that standard or don't complain about them. And they WILL get the job before you. After working with numerous agencies I have compiled a list of general standards Bikini/Lingerie Glamour Model: 5ft6-5ft8 34"-24"-34" Cup: B to D (Petite, or slender, well proportioned) Runway Model: 5ft8-6ft Bust 32"-34" waist 22"-26" hips 32"-34" Cup A to C Catalogue Model: 5ft7-5ft9 Bust 32"-36" Waist 24"-26" Hips 33"-35" Cup A to D Art Nude Model: 5ft-6ft any size or shape Let me also add this. Not everyone can be a model or photographer. A good photographer working with a bad/ugly model just produces good pictures of a bad/ugly model. A good model working with a bad photographer just produces bad images of a good model....
Models-Don't you like talking on the phone? in Model Colloquy
I get around 5 phone call requests a day.....from photographers, editors, directors, etc. I'm sorry, but I am not going to call all of them so that 30% of them can ask me to lunch and ask what I'm wearing this evening and what my hobbies are.....especially random people off the internet who were not refered to me through a friend or agent. Then I get texts from a few of them at 3:00am asking me to their best freind's birthday party! It's frustrating and offensive. I prefer the parameters of the shoot and basic details such as my agency would get for me to be provided in an email. It doesn't waste the photogtaphers time. He/she can copy/paste the same general email to 20 models. I feel that details need to be in writing in an email, and refered to later. Remember, if you are contacting us, you are a stranger off the internet and not refered to by a trusted friend or agent. A model may need a little more proof that you are legitimate or your offer is legitimate. Have you provided your business URL? Does your profile list your office or studio address? Is there a list of model referal links on your page? Concept? Who is the client? Very basic information of the shoot including estimated dates, usage, rates, etc. It has happened enough times to models that communication on the phone such as being assured over the phone "Oh, don't worry, the shoot is implied topless only" and then the poor model arrives to the shoot only to be told, "I TOLD you there was full nudity and you agreed!" That is one example of why most details should have been in writing/email. Promises and agreements should not be made over the phone. Emailing more information is also better than a 45 minute phone call when the model used roaming to take your call (costing her $75), or maxing out her limited minutes on her cell phone, and you haven't even narrowed it down to the final 3 models yet. Last month I had $150 in roaming charges for talking to two different photographers who told me nothing that could not have been in a general email copied and pasted to all the prospective models. One of them could not even stay focused on the purpose of the phone call and told me all about his theater trip the night before while I tried to re-direct the conversation back to business. I don't have time or energy for that. When you give adequate information and provided your most basic business information; when you've gotten replies to it and narrowed it down to the last few models, THEN it is not unreasonable to ask for a phone number. BTW, I have done MOST shoots via Model Mayhem and ALL shoots via my modeling agency without one phone call prior to a shoot. However as details are finalized I always provide my phone number, especially to be accessable en route to the shoot or to arrange a wardrobe fitting with the designer/stylist. Please, do not take it personally if a model does not initially call you. Do not think you are the only one asking for the model to call. You do not realize that there are a percentage of guys who want to talk to models everyday all day long (and seldom or never hire any models), and it ruins it for you photographers who have a legitimate and attractive assignment to offer. I hope that this perspective coming from a veteran model is a little helpful...... A few extra emails with general information helps models weed out who to focus their time on. And I believe models should reply to all emails in a timely manner. The time of all professionals are valuable, models and photographers, alike. Sorry for the verbosity of this reply. On my cell phone I cannot scroll up and edit. ;-)
Time to redefine or codify TF/TFCD in General Industry
I got stiffed yesterday by a photographer who refused to give me a copy of all the images after a TFCD shoot. First time ever I got stiffed on a shoot by a diva photographer claiming complete creative exclusivity of the images. He said he would email me "a few" of the images after editing. Excuse me? And my compensation for 9 hours commuting and a three hour shoot is "a few" images??????????? He said I did not know what TFCD means. Really? OK. Time to revisit the definition of TF. I propose we codify this here and now and may it serve as the template for all photographers and models in the future (wishful thinking). Let's go with this, three segments to the label when sending a TF offer to a model: TFxx: the first segment indicates the number of images the model will receive after the shoot, so TF10 means the model gets ten images. TF ALL means the model gets a copy of all the photos. PPI or NPPI: By using PPI, the photographer is stating "Post Processing Included" for the ten images. NPPI: No Post Processing Included. M, or P: M=Model, P=Photographer. Who chooses the images to be processed? M means the model looks at low resolution images in perhaps a grid folder view or at a website, and then selects the ten. P means the photographer selects the ten. The model has no input in the selection process. So lets look at a few examples at full speed: TF15-PPI-P The model gets 15 photos, post processing included, but the photographer chooses which 15 to give to the model. Since post processing is included the delivery method will be via email. TF5-PPI-M The model gets 5 images, post processing included, and the model also chooses which 5 he/she gets. TF ALL-NPPI No need for the third segment. The photographer will give the model a copy of all the photos after the shoot, no post processing included. Just burn them all to a disc and bid each other farewell. A fourth category is in order and is implied: H (High resolution). Funny how sometimes a photographer gets off on sending a model photos that are 50 KB in size. I cant print that. It's useless to me. In all cases the photos given to the model should each be RAW or JPEG Fine, which is around 4+ MB in size minimum. If you plan to send 50 KB files, then fully disclose to your model that you intent to screw her by sending her useless images. Please, feel free to join in. Make suggestions. Let's invent a better mousetrap together so that never again a model gets stiffed after commuting 4 hours to a shoot, posing for 3 hours, then commuting back home for 5 hours due to traffic, with her only compensation for 12 hours being "I'll send you a few images." Never again will I will be told I don't know what TFCD means because we, as front-line photographers and models, will codify that here and now. Personally, I'm looking for TF ALL-NPPI. I "roll my own" and make my own art. I don't need a photographer to make my art for me. If you contact me with an offer other than TF ALL-NPPI, I'm not interested. I know just by looking at the label what the offer is and whether or not I am interested. And both can refer back to the original email offer and verify/refute any claims as to what was offered. So here is what a sample email from a photographer to a model would look like: "Hi. Saw you port. Would love to work with you. TF5-PPI-P. You interested?"
A scathing article on the "Internet Model" in Model Colloquy
I can only comment on how things work in the NYC area, I have no idea about your market or others. If you are building a book of fashion images to show designers, art directors or agencies, you need to use "agency standard" models - and again, I'm talking about the full look, not just the numbers. If you don't, anyone reviewing your book will just toss it aside - no matter how great the photography is, and no matter what designs the model is wearing. It is somewhat unfortunate, but it is the truth. The further you get from what they are used to seeing, the less likely they will take you (a photographer) seriously. As far as the cost of agency models goes for small designers or testing photographers, you can get many new faces for free if the agency likes your work. Also, there are many agency represented models, who aren't getting many bookings through the agency that are able to book side gigs - and they do. This is often the case for agency models who are doing fit modeling. Again, I have no idea how things work on your end, but the fit models I have known were all agency standard. Most legitimate, small designers here that are putting together a look book for a line will still use agency girls when shooting it, often the same models they used to fit the line. Anywho, none of that is really germain to what the crux of this thread is about (and the breakdown of communication that is occurring). You say you don't spend much time here on the forums, I believe you. If you do, you'll find post after post after post of young girls, who want to be models - and not just any kind of model, but an agency represented fashion model in a major market - and simply do not have what it takes to get the gig. Not even close. Yet anyone who tells them that is castigated like they are evil jerks who just want to piss in their cornflakes. Then you get a plethora of others who come and post the same "just go for it grrl, don't listen to the h8ers, you need to work hard for your dream!" bs. Hell, a girl just started a thread in here for her "friend" who wanted to have her legs surgically broken in hopes that she could grow taller! WTF!?! And even if she was taller, it probably wouldn't make a hairs bit of difference. Someone, at some point, has to be honest with them, and I was in my opening post. Yes, if I do a search in NYC for models, with the criteria I am looking for, I can find a number of girls who will fit the bill quite nicely. But if I just do a blanket radius search, it's astounding what you find. Hell, do a radius search for photographers - are you going to tell me that most of them are of a caliber that you would hire? I don't think so. Hell, even if they offered to shoot your work for free (which many of us would depending on the circumstances) you would probably turn them down. If that's true for photographers on this site, doesn't it make sense that it's also true for models? Do I have models from this site flake on me? Not anymore, as I've been on here for a while, and most of the models I would be interested in shooting are either friends of mine, or we have mutual friends in common. But if contacting a new model, I'm always leery. And, btw, it's not that agency models never flake - although that's rare - but if they do, you simply make one call to the agency and you'll have another one there quickly. I tried to cast here once for a commercial gig - I needed a model who looked like a model but still looked "girl next door" as well as a male for a national ad for a BBQ grill. The work paid very, very well for about 6 hours of work. It was a nightmare. Never again, unless I've already worked with/tested the model. Even for my fine art work, I'm leery as I put a lot of resources into a shoot.
A scathing article on the "Internet Model" in Model Colloquy
You are talking about a different world. My money and models money at this level may not be serious to you but it is to us. And what we do is serious we aren't playing here. We just aren't big corporations. Now you may get your work from those corporations but don't look down your nose at what thousands like us contrubute to the economy while a lot of the kind of 'clients' in your world are giving all the money to Chinese sweatshops masquerading as fashion. Those that don't have a tradition and a reputation for quality and do a lot in house from design to manufacture for which they need models throughout. But even the small designers money money is good to the models and they graft for us. Know why? because we may give them three days work a week for six months. So don't talk to me about photographers employing models because how many photographers here have models down as a regular wage on their expenses. Do you even know what a technical is? I'll give you a clue she doesn't go down under the advertising budget. And as for the art nude that is the same; the artists groups and art education institutions pay them paye wages; as do the bigger design houses. The work is that regular. Once again all I can say is there is the rag trade and there is advertising business and big fashion mags etc. You big shots may get that advertising and editorial work; the models here will get a taste of it now and again; but it doesn't even keep the Agency girls in full time employment. So most do a bit of everything. Bloody good jacks of all trades many of them; or specialise in particular niches. But since when are 'Dove' fashion designers anyway? They are soap mate. Not in the rag trade. And I am the one talking gobblygook. Right. Not. You don't know the rag trade that is for sure. Looks to me good a shooter as you are; I pay models Agent provocateur pays models; from tehcnicals right up to campaign. Pretty sure everyone else I know in the rag trade does too; and they don't turn their nose up at models who have their portfolios on the internet. You don't. Ok. Models it is up to you who you take note of but ask yourself why Tony is here if all internet models are like the article. Photographers employ models sometimes. But not if they can persuade you they don't need to. And fair enough; some of you will do well by shooting with Tony for free and it may make those who actually employ models take notice of you. But then he isn't going to pay you as far as I can see so whose advice is best if you are actually at the stage where you can begin to make a living? The models who do; or Tony? He'd like to convince you that you can't. Why he is also trying to convine me you are not reliable and I should be booking Agency models I have no idea. It isn't going to happen but I need relaible models just as much as the big cleints. More; They don't starve if their models don't show. Right now I really am off. Some people can't see further than their own lens.
A scathing article on the "Internet Model" in Model Colloquy
I see what Eliza means by word twisters. I turn over thousands of pounds not dollars annulally. Profit is small. But all my models are on model mayhem; and I pay them because they are professionals. My one expense at an agency model she looked like a prepubescent sack of shit in my clothes. Models don't get work from photographers everyone knows that. They don't even pay when the gig is through an ad agency. If they are given control of the model budget they keep it themselves and try it on with naive young models who they persuade to do it for free; or more likely the models are booked sperately by the agency or chosen by the designers. BUT most of the work doesn't involve photography at the kind of level you are talking about. There are TWO industries here and you can't seem to differentiate between them. One is the fashion industry; and the other is the advertising industry. I am part of the fashion industry like many other small designers can't get involved in the latter but that doesn't stop us en masse contributing millions to help sorting the balance of payments deficit. So what we do is for 12 weeks we are on a collection and for the whole time just about we use a fitting model. They mostly work with other girls who match them so they can swap about; because they are like rocking horse shit because we often use the same ones that the big houses do. They are well paid; but reasonable for what they do. So then comes the initial photos when they are done. You get in the photographer next door or diy. Then you give the clothes an outing. To an event. Your model does that to because she is the one it has been made on. Then it gets in the papers. Best one for me was Eliza being photographed at London fashion week because there are hundreds of us can't get in the new designer bit so we'll bushwhack it. I also use models at the races to model the stuff which is how Eliza got involved with all the other designers doing the same thing; and the pictures get everywhere from mainstream tv to local newpapers to Horse and Hound to the Racing Post to Marie Claire. Then we get other photographers interested in doing some stuff for editorial features; whether it be local magazines or photographers here having a go. So again it is free advertising. Then at this stage you go back to fit and iron out any problems the fit model due to her expereince has identified. Then you go to trade fairs at home abroad. Again you take your models. Then you do fashion shows and a boutique buys three pieces; another two. Then you take them to big retail events and more fashion shows with other small designers. The only photographers are local press. By this time over six months you may have recouperated costs and then start again. By the time you are ready for the next collection you may have made £3-5k for yourself out of the turnover; but employed a lot of people in that process including models who have worked their arse off for you. Now there are thousands of us sharing these models sometimes with big fashion houses and the boutiques and the wholesale fashion concerns it is thanks to their dedication and not dropping us like hot shit when they get a bigger designer wanting them that we can do this at all. There that is the real fashion world. Agency models and Dove adverts has nothing to do with it apart from the odd bit of work that the models get. They still make a living though thanks to the thousands of little outfits like me. And when photographers want them for nothing you don't get why they say no do you? They know they aren't going to get into Vogue this is their living not pie in the sky. I have never be let down by a Model Mayhem model and they have all been 100% professional; on time; no issues with escorts. That goes for the art nude girls and burlesque girls too. Perhaps you are just picking the chancers because you don't want to pay I don't know. Or perhaps they just don't let designers down. But I am pretty sure if the ones I have used are anything to go by they've never flaked on anyone. Now I read somehwre that Eliza offered you I think it was to see her paychecks. She isn't going top do that publicly but she'll do it privately. So that will tell you what you are saying about models under 5ft 7ins not being able to earn a living out of fashion is rubbish. Her flatmate's partner was only 5ft 3 ins and did similar for the day to day income though she is also an actress. And loads more of her friends too. Maybe the shoot work for editorial is at a low level and even parts stand in stuff. But they aren't in the advertising business they are in the rag trade. And when I started going out with her and the recsssion made things tight for me it was her income that kept us being able to live in London and most of it was fashion generated.
Models misbehavin' in General Industry
I have had: Models start fights with other models. Other models escorts start fights with models . Models start fights with other escorts. Escorts start fights with other escorts. Models stealing anything from food to hair dryers and flat irons. Models doing pretty much every drug on the list in the dressing room or bathroom. Models boyfriend leaves because of jealously or some bullshit and she run out of the studio half dressed chasing him bags in tow down the street. Models stealing entire sets of images back in the film days. I had a model book my studio for rental, turned out the photographer was a young buck and handsome in her eyes. I went to another area of the studio for a bit and when I returned she was performing oral on him. A model brought an escort that stole my ATV a few weeks later. Wasn't hard to catch that one since he drooled over it the entire shoot. Sex in the dressing room with other female models is pretty common. I was shooting a model with rather long labia, in the middle of the shoot she stretched one out and began to twirl it in circles making a siren sound. Not sure that falls under misconduct but it sure was funny And the best for last... I once had an interview with a model for adult content that another model friend arranged, the potential model showed up after working hours. I received a phone call and excused myself, after a 3 minute conversation I returned to a nude girl on my couch with my feather duster up her ass and her breasts bound with gaffers tape. A bit shocked at first I immediately bargained with her to video tape her insanity for the pocket change of $60. Then she wanted me to see all her labia piercings up close and personal like, it was like flesh colored Swiss cheese. After 15 minutes or so of feather duster entertainment and other weird events she proceeds to use drywall screws to attach her labia to a 2X4. At this point I started too interrogate her a bit. I had never heard such stories in my life, this chick was really a mess!! I couldn't get her out of the studio fast enough.. I immediately called a friend to show the video, after 3 hours I had about 30 people in the studio watching in disbelief.. Comments were, Oh my god, gross, shes sick.. REWIND IT!! Turns out the model who set me up with her did it as a joke.. And I'm not ashamed to admit I have had my share of sexual encounters over 20 years although I will admit as I age they become more rare..
Models misbehavin' in General Industry
Hmm, models who take frequent ladies room breaks and come out sniffing with some kind of white powder mustache. models who call the bf on a break, and then proceed to try to convince him not to break up with them over the phone while the crew stands around. models who start groping other models during a shoot, where one is bi, and one is not. models who hint, then flirt, then finally come right out and make a bold faced pass, and when you still turn them down, get upset and pout. models who go tell mutual friends stories, after a shoot, forgetting there was a video camera on in the corner during the whole shoot, and then get mad when you show said mutual friends the video of the shoot. models who tell lawyers stories, or better yet, have a friend call who pretends he's a lawyer. and again, that tape comes in handy models who accidentally pack up clothing that doesn't belong to them. models who bring escorts who suddenly have an emergency one third of the way into a shoot. models who forget something in their car, and just run out there quick wearing next to nothing, cause "nobody will see." models who think it's too much trouble to duck behind something to change on a location shoot, cause it's too much trouble. models who have a bottle of vodka in their bag, and go from acting weird to full on psycho during a shoot. models who show up for a nude shoot, and forget it's that time of the month, and they forgot to bring any spare tampons (yeah, gross) Bi Polar models, OMG Bi Polar Models. models who bring their clingy dog to a shoot. lastly, models who show up with a brand new, huge, all scabbed over, I just got it tattoo. and those are just the ones who come to mind.
A scathing article on the "Internet Model" in Model Colloquy
Those curious about modeling and height can check out: http://www.newmodels.com/ This site by a former MM member is a excellent source of information. Fashion agencies often use their runway models for print. I think we can mostly agree that taller models are easier to see on a runway and it might be ridiculous to have a 5'2" model with a model 5'10" Another problem is designers only make a few sample pieces and having to make things for short models as well as tall ones wouldn't work. There are many small models who may be beautiful and have lean proportional figures but what happens if ad or project has them working with tall men or tall women. An agency only has so many slots for models as well. However one of the biggest reasons is tall beautiful models tend to stand out so to say. Anyone who's seen Iman or the current crop of agency faces knows what I mean. You may be stunning at 5'2" but people just notice taller people in general and studies show that taller people get better jobs and make more money. http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/Careers/02/0 … index.html People tend to associate success, intelligence and even attractiveness with height. Height matters, age, skin color, weight and overall figure all matter as a model. This bullshi^ about being photographed tall is just that, bullshi7. If height wasn't a issue then fashion and commercial agencies would just accept any and all models they felt were attractive enough to book work but they measure their models. Print modeling is very calculated. They want female models who aren't too small vs. their male models. They want young, thin and usually White women and girls. You can yap about how height, age, weight or anything doesn't matter on MM all you want but go pick up almost any Lifestyle, fashion magazine, catalog, cosmetic and or beauty ad who is using models not stars and check them out. Being short as a model is not a plus. Being unsigned is not a plus. Being a older model is not a plus. However don't debate that with me. Debate it with real world agencies who book work for their clients.
Question regarding payment of nude pics.. in General Industry
This is a real problem, and models are the ones usually getting the short end. There isn't one good answer, except KNOW who you are dealing with. If you take borderline or sketchy jobs, or gigs, then you will have to use higher degrees of caution. But it comes down to the shooting time, the release, and the payment. Some photographers will shoot, and don't want a release and will skip out on payment. They have the photos, and it's hard for the model to do anything about it. This has happened to a lot of models I know. Some of the stories are almost worth making a movie about. Photographers have left models stranded in airports, in fields, in other states, etc. Same with the models. I screen out 10 or 15 models for each 1 that I invite to show up, and out of those maybe 1 in 5 actually does. My "problem" rate is very, very low. But I really don't care if I shoot with every model. I want to shoot with models who are *NOT* problems. That is most important to me. On the other hand, someone I worked with did pretty much anything she could to get the models to show up, and she had problem after problem. We never could reconcile our differences on this. She wanted to shoot any model regardless. I didn't like the risk. It's harder for the models, who are usually the ones seeking payment. In order to get paid, they need to take jobs, and often the paid jobs are because the photographers can't get TF* or trade. The more money being offered, the more it seems to be so. (This is in lieu of the photos being for a specific release like a website, etc). The amounts vary by area, but are usually 2-3x minimum wage or current going minimums (in some areas minimums are a little higher). Just for round numbers, if local jobs are offering $10/hour for entry/unskilled/register/clerk etc positions, then $30/hour is usually more than enough above to get models. If you have to go to $75 or $100, then you need to be more cautious as to why that is being paid. From the models point of view, the $75 job is more desirable than the $30, but the "risk" may not be worth it. Local economics (and KNOWING your local economics) is important in this. There have been threads about "red flags" on several systems lately, and people need to be more aware of the red flags, and use the same decision making skills they use when meeting people in general. There is nothing special or different about the model/photographer, except that it can be more dangerous for EITHER the model or photographer (yeah, I have model horror stories, so do others). But as a photographer, I can be much more choosy in picking models, than the models can be in picking the photographers. The one with the money usually has more control. In general, the photographers have the money (either theirs, or a clients) and the models are applying for jobs to get that money. That kind of shifts the "risks" in the direction of the models. Money is a "hook" to bring people in. Sometimes, it's not all about the photos, and sometimes the money really isn't there. I don't think it's getting better, either. I think it's getting worse. Scott
A scathing article on the "Internet Model" in Model Colloquy
Eliza, I've been following this thread and there is only one fashion model in it. She has tears but forget that for a moment. That article is a editorial piece about some web models but please for the love of all that's holy, stop with this stuff about short fashion models. The majority of catalog, jewelry, cosmetic or beauty work, and fashion is booked via agencies and goes to models 5'8" or taller. Forget Vogue or V or Elle because they pay next to nothing. The bread and butter work for most models is catalog and again that work is going to agency signed models most of whom are under 21 and over 5'7". There are precious few petite models who work consistently but they are very few in number. There are two very separate worlds. The world of the real working fashion and commercial model and they are largely NOT on MM and the web based model who represents herself. You may be able to point out a few members who buck the trend and work but they are the exception and not the rule. A little reality the average model makes around $20.00 a hour. This is adjusted based on down time and is a national average in the US according to the DOL. Don't believe me? Look up it up. The average fashion models career lasts a year if she's lucky. A busy model doing catalog and fashion not the average mind you makes around $100,000 a year. I am not speaking of the current crop of super models but the agency faces at Elite, Ford, DNA and other agencies. I don't know many who work consistently who are not at least 5'7" and most range from 5'8" to 5'11". However forget what, I have to say. Go to: http://www.dnamodels.com/women-main-board If I'm looking to show off my new designs do, I hire a 5'2" model from MM or will I go there? http://www.womenmanagement.com/models/list/1/all/1 no 5'3" models. There is no niche for those models. The truth is that real world clients hire real working models who fit industry standards. There may be some petite working models but they are rare. Most of all clients with decent budgets should always go to agencies. Booking web based models is a recipe for failure. Not pointing any fingers.
A scathing article on the "Internet Model" in Model Colloquy
Hi, Eliza. I don't think the writer had you in mind when when he/she wrote it. Just as those who have called photographers on MM rapists and pedophiles. I'm not either so, I'm never offended. The piece was a general over view of many of the web based models and it was on point. Their isn't a week that goes by without one of us whinny babies isn't complaining about a flake or unprofessional model. Are all the models here unprofessional flakes? Of course not. That article was about the models who join sites yet still have self taken shots in mirrors months later. It was about the friend collecting, waste of time, short models with fake tans who aspire to be fashion models when they stand 5'2". You can be short and be a real model. There are plenty here but they are not working fashion models. That article was about the new Facebook Supermodel who has thousands of fans, hundreds of likes for her photos and who's next stop is WWD or Bazaar magazine. She's on her way baby! The ideal is NOT take what people say in these kinds of pieces personally. He didn't say, Eliza was a dreamer. He didn't say you would never work. He didn't say every model on MM or the web was wasting her time. As for investing. Again you've made it personal. Modeling schools still rake in millions from wannabe models. Agencies send models to do paid shoots that parents or they pay for. Companies like Pro-Scouts make thousands in every city they travel too. This when 90% of those that attend these 'events' will never do any fashion or commercial work or be signed by anyone. That article wasn't for you. It wasn't for any of the wonderful working models on MM. In fact the writer didn't mention MM or OMP or iStudio. It was a opinion piece about the majority of web based models. Please don't tell me about a model you know from the Royal Academy of short models who's appeared in Elle. Its not about a few exceptions. Its not about you nor any other working model.
A scathing article on the "Internet Model" in Model Colloquy
Well who has their knickers in a twist now? We are never going to agree on this. You have issues with internet models because of sour grapes and have said as much. That is YOUR fault entirely. References don't work my arse. People lie? As if a designer is going to put their reputation on the line by lying for a model. You get a glowing reference for a good job. You don't see that most modelling work is done by independent models or agency models who get their work on the net because they would be twiddling thumbs waiting for Agency work only. We are the cake; the top agency models are the icing. The article didn't say the cake has some mouldy bits it said cake is crap; look what it is made of; and gave us a drivel list of stereotypical behaviour based on the wannabe; NOT the model. That's okay. You get on with your work I have some ice core samples to centrifuge. Because YOU are not the only one with important work on. If you can't afford the time don't pick the battles. And how accurate is it around here to think of models as dumb? Some well educated people round here. So that stereotype doesn't have any credence either. And if that had been the thrust of an article posted here I'd have gone with that too rather than accept any 'exemptions' to the 'rule' or that it didn't mean some of us. And if a couple of 'non models' kept harping on about a model they had used who was thick I'd respond with the same vigour. We aren't asking you to cry for us; we are just telling you what we do as you don't seem to have much clue apart from what your own expereince is and that is limited; and as you say based on a few bad uns and a few good uns. Not the variety and genres of the models I have come across daily in London for three years and rarely met an unprofessional one. Yes I have seen the ports of the wannabes here. But are they really models? No. So who are internet models if they arent actually the models on the internet? QUOTE: "Obituary: The Internet Model" not "Obituary: the Wannabe model" If it then had been a facebook page with the description rather than the MM page of a model that doesn't look like she has a mobile phone pic then that may be different. But it's no big deal and I don't hold grudges so see ya later
A scathing article on the "Internet Model" in Model Colloquy
You seem to put a lot of stock in my opinion (thanks by the way) so here it is warts and all: First of all, what's "on my radar" is what I see and know personally. And while you clearly must know every working model in the industry, I don't. I do however happen to know a few really amazing girls, none of whom are agency represented who make a good enough living to support themselves in various nice markets ranging from pretty standard art modeling to alternative modeling.Additionally, if you read my original post on this topic in full rather than getting all lathered up about the fact that I actually liked the piece you would have noticed that I said FROM THE BEGINNING that you don't need to be 5'10 and rail thin to model but you do need it if you want to be signed with a fashion agency. Clearly the inference there was lost so I'll spell it out: If you're 5'2 some place like Ford isn't going to touch you, it doesn't mean you can't model at all but it does mean that I get pissed off when those girls contact me about doing a high fashion shoot with no budget because I can't pull clothes for them because as I'm sure you're well aware fashion fit models are taller etc.. Did you actually read the article? Or were you just outraged by the insinuations it made? The article clearly states the following: "How do you spot the internet model, you ask? Their photos are always those that seek attention: cleavage, booty shorts, bad tans, kissy faces, and a plethora of mirror photos taken with a flashing light from her handheld, digital-camera in the corner. Their status updates are also fashioned in a way so as to let the world know what they are doing, even if it pointless, quotidian minutia: “Just did my nails.” If that isn't what YOU do or how you conduct YOURSELF professionally then you're clearly not who the author is talking about. With that I refer back to my clearly magical ability to listen to a song about women being whores ect. and not falling into the fetal position or starting a letter writing campaign or protest because I'm quite clear on what type of person I am. Oh and speaking of MM in particular while you've possibly been spared some of the questionable "portfolios" I've seen enough to be convinced that some of these girls fit that description to a tee AND there are some models who don't fit it at all...kind of like how all black people aren't thugs on welfare or all white people aren't racist and stuck up or all Asian people aren't concerned with academic achievement...all models who have online portfolios don't fit into the "internet model" description. Please don't sing your sad little song about being "unpresented" or "unappreciated" as a model, you won't get an ounce of sympathy from me. When you tell people you work as a model I'm sure that 99.9% of the time they know what you mean. Try saying to someone outside of the industry that you're a wardrobe stylist AND that you only pull from indie designers and just watch how fast the stupid questions start flying. Or better yet how many times has someone asked you to come and work for no money because of course you must have everything you ever shot still sitting in your closet so it can't be that much of a hassle... As someone who spends every second of their professional lives behind the scenes I know all about the unsung. My comment about the parade was no more uncalled for then your erroneous attack on my thoughts which I will once again point out mirrored your own in the sense that I stated from the very beginning that a model didn't need to be an agency girl to work and I mentioned knowing models who weren't. I realize that sometimes in a debate it's not always clear which side someone is on but it is possible for me to love the article and still understand and respect that there are independent models that don't fit that mold, the same way it's completely possible for me to be anti-war and still supportive of the troops. Perhaps that's too complex of an emotion for some but I can walk and chew gum too so I much be special. Defend your colleagues all you want but don't pretend that there aren't some girls (a lot of girls) that give modeling a bad name. Maybe you're oblivious to this fact because you've never come across them in your own life BUT I've booked models who showed up on set looking NOTHING like their photos (retouch is a dangerous thing especially when it's natural), I've had girls with nothing but mirror shots contact me and demand to be paid for shoots, I've had girls tell me that it was my job to help them get booked and I've had girls call me the day before a shoot and say "by the way my hair looks nothing like it looks in my pictures and I know you asked me before but I didn't want to tell you, I've also had girls show up on set a day early and then blame me for it when all of my communication clearly stated another date...should I go on? Because I have dozens of more stories from my dealings with "internet models". HOWEVER I've also had models who serve as the antithesis of this in that they're professional and I will once again reiterate that on both sides of it I'm only speaking from experience.
A scathing article on the "Internet Model" in Model Colloquy
That is not the issue. Those of us who work modelling in fitting or for boutiques and small designers or doing regional fashion stuff don't fit on your radar other than 'a few independent models'. The point I am making is that the Agency models are few; the supermodels are fewer. But they are visible. So the independent models only come up as the 'ones you know'. Yet I know because I have worked in that field across the board that it is in fact WE who make up the majority. There is not in fact much differentiation between most Agency models and the rest of us: Those girls cannot exist on one or two jobs a year provided for by the Agency. So they are out there grafting on the net too. No; the article didn't single out the girls with tasteless fb photros; it implied that ALL internet models are like that; which they are clearly not. And it specifically targets MM with its graphic. The truth is it is the elite who are unrepresentative. As unrepresentative of musicians as the elite rock star. But one doesn't see net articles saying all other musicians should give up because they are never going to be U2 or the Rolling Stones; and that just because they have 600 likes on their fb page doesn't make them a musician. Clearly that is flawed; and it is just the same with modelling. BUT it is just the kind of view that someone who works at the high end of the industry only may assume: it is kind of the Simon Cowell syndrome; 'you will never make it' as though that is what it is about for independent rock bands. Of course; anyone in the backroom -sound engineers, recording studio people, the fans of small bands, know it is the Cowell pehnomenon that is not representative of the industry. The small band pays for the recording studio, plugs away on their fb page, does the odd bit of session work (because the 'manufactured' star band often can't even play their instruments) and builds a following; makes a living. And once again; they are legion such bands. It is true that you do get the fb mobile phone models here. But likewise in music you can also see some dire bands that have only ever rehearsed in the bathroom! I don't want a ticker tape parade and I resent your accusation; uncalled for and snide. What I am doing is trying to defend my colleagues and explain to some of the narrow view here who think that article has any credence what modelling is about. It was an attack on all; not the wannabe bedroom model. We are internet models too. We work; doing the bulk of journeyman stuff that the elite don't. And that is before we go into modelling of other genres. This was an attack on the 'internet model' as exemplified clearly by MM. You may mean something distinct; though your only thought was the 'few independent models' you know personally. Well I know hundreds of independent models personally and if you open your eyes there are THOUSANDS on here who do a good job day in day out. I also know Agency girls; I also know they are here too; including the odd top campaign model. I am not getting 'bent out of shape'. I am not the one who has resorted to attack you personally. I am just saying your definition has excused a few personal independent ones you know; my point is that in fact they are the vast majority of professional models when combined with the Agency models here too and all get much of their work from their web ports. Don't get so bent out of shape I was just clarifying that not attacking you personally.
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