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ru considered a model if you're not signed? in Off-Topic Discussion
Eh. People get their panties in a twist about the word "model" a lot, but, truth is, any one (or thing) that models can be called a model. Hell, this is a model. You can cut it any way you like, but the fact of the matter is, if I'm taking a picture of someone (or drawing them, painting them, sculpting them, whatever -- I'm a woman of many talents), I'm not gonna say to my friend, "Oh, sorry, I can't go to tennis with you that day, I've got a person-who-models-as-a-hobby-but-not-for-a-living-so-don't-call-them-a-model coming over." Now, there are some people who like to try to "reserve" the term "model" for professionals, or particularly good models, or whatever. But that seems silly to me. Don't be proud about the fact that you model! Anybody can model. Models, if you want something to be proud of, model well, and be proud of that. I think it's all connected to the fact that "model" is a very loaded term in our society of the spectacle -- people associate it with superstars, gorgeous people, whatever. But the reality of modeling is that it's really quite mundane. You show up, you do a job, you leave. You don't need to have x number of fans, or really cool sunglasses, or a cloud of glitter that mysteriously follows you around whatever room you step into. It's just a thing you do. If professional models want to differentiate themselves from other people who model (and, yes, that differentiation does come in handy), they can do that with a very simple term. "Professional model." Wow! Only two words and six syllables! It's almost easy to say! There's really no reason why people who model for a living need to deny the term "model" to other people who do it unless it's some weird ego thing.
SexyMuse Workshop & Cruise - The Caribbean in Events
[img][/img] SexyMuse Workshop & Cruise Glamour (Playboy Style) | Artistic Nude | Bikini | Posing | Lighting Practice makes perfect and practice with some of the most amazing models around, including several Glamour and Bikini models makes it perfect and fun! If you want to improve the quality of your photography, one thing you can do right away is learn to use natural light in better ways. And here you will have that chance. Rocke Photography and SexyMuse are combining efforts to bring you this workshop with detailed training and instruction in the use of natural lighting for creating amazing Bikini, Lingerie and Artistic Nude images. This workshop is not a paparazzi style shoot out. Each photographer will have individual shooting time with each of the main models to get some outstanding images in a relaxed and amazing setting. And, in case you need more, be sure to plan some one-on-one time with your favorite model(s) after the main workshop. You will have an opportunity to work with these great models everyday, while receiving instructions and tips on how to improve your photography. Join us for this workshop and you will receive: • Cruise Ticket (a credit towards your cabin based on double occupancy, and subject to availability. They include port charges but do not include airfare or (where applicable) airport or government taxes or fees. • Spanish speaking guide for our time at Cozumel, Mexico • Transportation at Cozumel to the different shooting locations • Four days learning and shooting. • Training (theory) on lighting and posing techniques. • Live demonstration of these techniques. • Amazing glamour models to shoot with. • Q&A throughout the duration of the workshop. • You'll spend 80%+ of your time shooting. • Promotional/Portfolio Model Release from all the models are included in the price. • 10% Discount on your rental from Aperturent Participating models click on the image to go to the model's gallery and video [img][/img] Maxim Model Brittney Leigh - Atlanta, GA [img][/img]Glamour Model Scarlett Tampa, FL [img][/img] Glamour Model Amanda Sarasota, FL [img][/img] Glamour Model Sarah Q Atlanta, GA [img][/img] Glam-Ink Model Johannie Secaucus, NJ [img][/img] Bikini Model Callie Miami, FL [img][/img] Lingerie Model Stephanie Hover - Atlanta, GA [img][/img] Glamour Model Gia Victoria - Miami, FL Ready for this fantastic opportunity? Sign up Now!!! >> When • November 08th to Nov 12th SexyMuse Workshop & Cruise - $850.00(*) (*)Price includes all items listed above [img][/img] For additional information (FAQ) click here | Contact us at: | Phone (678)785.5271 Sponsored by: [img][/img] [img][/img]
not model material in General Industry
Which model looks out of place here and why? Lara Stone [img][/img] Aline [img][/img] Joan Smalls [img][/img] Liu Wen [img][/img] Daphne G [img][/img] Fei Fei [img][/img] Lindsey [img][/img] Jourdan [img][/img] Sui He [img][/img] Xiao Wen Ju [img][/img] The OP [img][/img] Crystel [img][/img] Ajak [img][/img] Anais M [img][/img] Anais P [img][/img] The difference between these girls and most people on MM should be obvious... it has nothing to do with height, race, size, or photography.... Every model on this site should just line up their shots with these (and other top models) to see if they can see a clear difference or not...
Models and Compensation in Photography Talk
yes I am fired up. I may be long winded in your opinion but I have taken massive and unwarranted personal attack here. Constantly for example you have suggested that I 'claim' to know models and I 'cliam' to have done this or that . As though I am a liar. Unecessary and easily disproved: but of course you haven't got the balls to bet on it have you? Now just have mentioned that you know top fashion models. I have NEVER once doubted that you have told the truth. You may not be; but I always assume that grown ups engaged in proper debate neither lie nor insult one another. And impling that my testimony is a lie because you cannot undermine it any other way; or others suggesting I am attention seeking (which I can just as easily prove wrong) are pathetic attempts to devalue what I am saying. I am NOT name dropping - where have I done it in this thread? I only did it in the other to show those that thought fit modelling was for us low lifes - it has the odd glamorous moment. So yes I mentioned one I did runway with. ONE. You have kept saying that you know top models but have FAILED to cite one. Not that I doubt you; but you did mention that you knew a lot. You are nothing but a negative mysogenistic troll determined to put model mayhem models down and these are the only threads you ever contribute to. Now. I have said MANY TIMES but it is failing to get through to you that 99% of the fashion industry from boutiques to students to small designers to even larger fashion houses DO NOT have the budget to employ agency models for everything. I have told you ; as has my partner who is a small designer, that there is simply NOT the budget but models are still needed for a variety of activities from fit to showroom to event modelling of the garments; and not even advertisements and editorial in small magazines. Fashion houses are not going to employ agency models as fit and there are at least as many fit models as editorial models and the work is more regular. Not highly paid; but regular. So there is plenty of such work for freelance models who make the effort IF they are in the right area to find it. To sneer at us because we don't do much photography disgusts me. You ONLY know and aspire to editorial fashion photography and by your own admission are not yet a professional in that. I can't see why you wouldn't be able to but I take your word for it. I have cited you dozens of models here ; and other models have come forward that stand as testimony to your claims that MM is mianly for amateurs, Even if it is; that gives you NO right to suggest we all are. And it doesn't take much to sort the wheat from the chaff or see that there are thousands of professional model ports here far more high flying than those of us who just do the journeymen stuff. You don't look at them because you seek models for free and end up with the moneygrabbers and the unreliable in the end anyway. Pay peanuts get monkeys. As for your insults ...well as someone else put it that is classless. All arguments that resort to personal attack when confronted with evidence are. If you are tired of me yapping then desist coming to the model coloquy forums telling us we are a bunch of amateurs. As I said; what the hell are you doing here then? You are difficult to ignore when you keep bnaging the same drum and will not accept that there are many models here of all kinds; including agency girls. While you keep saying we are all amateurs and wannabes you will keep getting a piece of my mind.
Models and Compensation in Photography Talk
No I KNOW that what you say is correct re some models being broke. There is NO reason for them to be if they realise that you won't make much money out of photographers. Come on....even if you got a £3k shoot job for an advertorial and they allow you to pick the models it is going to be too much to resist asking us to do it tf because it's going to be in a mag isn't it? So the only way WE are going to see that action is to drop ino the local boutique say hi , drop off your z card with the MM port addy on it; make freinds do their charity fashion show for £75 and a dress and tell your friends to go there to shop etc. Then; when they want an ad done THEY call us. The photographer turns up and doesn't get it because I am not a bimbo and he knows I am likely getting as much cash as he is. So let us not pretend here: we aren't ever going to make much out of photographers. This is the approach most freelancers who get work take. They love it the clients because they befriend you, and they don't get charged £800 for an agency model or a photographer pretending he is paying that for the model! Then as I have said many times you have the fitting route. There must be a thousand models in London alone doing this; quite a number are here including the top girls like the Vivienne Westwood girl I showed you. Then NO fine art nude model in a metropolis need ever go skint if she realises that artists and Art institutions always pay; and out of those 100 artists you model for on a thursday night at least five want to shoot you too and KNOW that they have to pay you because they see you are earming a living at it. Yes; as I said if you sit on your arse and expect work to come to you on MM you will not get much. Not even much from the castings. You have to graft and market your online port agressively. Do I check into my profile daily? No. I didn't check in for six weeks when I was away. As it happens I couldn't cjheck my emails then but didn't miss much as it was advertised on my port. But unless I am engaged in a discussion on forums then I won't check in UNLESS I get an email from MM . That doesn't mean I am not using my MM port as an online portfolio to send to castings and poetential clients. One doesn't have to check in to do that and the emails come back to you not your MM port. How many boutiques and designers and artists do you suppose are on MM? A lot; but just a tiny fraction of the potentail clientelle. And I have NO clue why you think designers and small boutiques don't pay. My partner is very small and always pays models. They won't get pics often so he has to. Yes I do a bit for him and he for me; but he still pays other girls too. And they always seem happy to swan around in a £2k tweed suit or a £5k mink coat at the races all day and get paid for it. And he uses them for fit too and again pays. I do a bit for other small designers too and it has never come up that they can't pay. Where do you get this? Even student fashion designers pay. When they do their shows and shoots they'll get three or four other students to model and a couple of pros. NOT agency obviously. So they can only give you £100 so what? Do three or four of those a month in addition to your other shit and its good. It does surpise me no end when I can walk into a Knightsbridge store or send an email and get fit and showroom work from it. I just give my z card, say I am around, and they look up my MM port and say yes can you come in thursday we have some Arab/Russian ladies/trade client/ad photographer coming in so we need a model (and likely one that has familiarised themselves with the product and can converse pleasantly about it and isn't going to cost them a grand from an agency). But THAT is how one gets work. The fact that a lot of MM models don't seem to realise that stuff is why they aren't getting work. Those of us that are; unless they are like me a sucker for punishment in forums; they won't check in often no. That IS NOT where the value of an online port is. I write a lot Tony is because I think I can contribute to you and other models the benefit of my experience. I like to help others it is just the way I am; especially when I see amazing models here struggling. As I am just a very basic journeyman model but have managed to earn a living and was never short of work shows that other girls can too without continuing to believe they are rubbish so need to work for big shot photographers for free. And until you accept that I will keep challenging what you are saying. Maybe you are just thinking only in a narrow high fashion editorial terms of what modelling is; but there is FAR more paid work below that. And the work does not often (though sometimes from those who realise they can get a good , expereinced and reliable model for a small fee on MM) come from photographers. And okay; so what if you end up getting £250 for another caution tape shoot? Even if I was to do a shoot for a photographer as thorough a craftsman as you with a bit of vision; how is that going to help me? I am never going to do much editorial; so it may look nice in my port but that is it. And I would add something to yours so tf isn't happening unless I needed it as I was starting off and was aiming at the top. You want a reliable model with a bit of experience we are here; you just have to use your head a bit and pay. And there are a hell of a lot that would be very suitable editorial image style models. What is your area do you want me to run a search for you? Now if you actually READ this you will begin to understand how models that DO work get paid without lobbing their tits out. And I have no problem with that for artistic reasons either so it isn't like I don't want to do that work. In fact; some boutiques and designers actually can be a bit funny about it; so being selctive in what kind of nude modelling you do is important.
Models and Compensation in Photography Talk
Once again a photogtrapher telling models how they earn their living; their potential, and they have to shoot nude. It doesn't matter I have over many threads now given you dozens and dozens of models or they have made themselves known to you who do earn a living. We know rarely photographers pay. THIRD PARTIES pay if its a photography gig and they pick the models not you. True don't EXPECT to get much paid work from MM. It is a portfolio hosting site. Use it to market yourself. It is the same as a photographer having their own website. Not much good to sell UNLESS you market yourself. Work seldom comes to those who wait. There will be lots of hobbysists true; and just as many photographers as models. No probs; each get paid or tf work from one another too. And not all fact few....can be said to be using quality models either. They may THINK a good looking model is a quality model. You get what you pay for and you get paid for what you do; and quality frequently isn't a factor (as I stated with the caution tape thing). The market dictates what you do and at what level and I am not fussy - I'd rather do a cool idea for an average but nice photographer that pays than a great photographer who doesn't. And at the end of the day it isn't important to me because I get my main work from designers and boutiques; fit showroom small ad shoot website shoot etc. And what they do ie garment manufacture is quality; frequently the best. Am I bothered I don't always get the photos apart from the odd tear? No. I haven't even bothered updating my port for 18 months I still get the work. And as I keep asking you. If you have such contempt for MM models what the hell are you doing here? Certainly not to learn anything about modelling or you'd start listening to models who tell you how they do it. As was evident from your complete ignorance about fitting modelling in the other thread. Chances are most models are earning their living through similar work or niche markets or promo work or performance eg modelling in dance videos or stilt walkers or fetish stuff etc. But to you there are only high fashion models. They are here too; as I told you: three or four of the top London agency models I worked with before have MM ports. It beggars belief that you continue to judge us all by your limited knowledge of modelling and your own bad experinces trying to get models to work for free and apparently finding them unreliable. As I say; I keep out of photography threads because a little knowledge...can make one look a bit daft next to the experience of those who make a living from it..
In Texas if a photog. forgets to have a in General Industry
There's a little bit of good information in this thread and a whole lot of bad. Trust me, I'm a lawyer. 1. In the U.S., the photographer owns all rights to the photograph the minute he creates it. Unless he assigns his rights to someone else or it is a work made for hire (which doesn't mean what it sounds like it means), he and only he has the right to reproduce the work in copies, prepare derivative works based on the original work, distribute copies of the work by sale, rental, lease or lending, and display the work publicly. 2. In many U.S. states, and Texas is among them, OP, the subject of a photograph, if living, has certain publicity rights under the common law as explained in the link early in this thread. If the photographer appropriates a person's likeness for its value rather than its newsworthiness, and the person can be identified from the publication of that likeness, and if the photographer receives an advantage from the appropriation (typically commercial though not necessarily monetary), then an infringement of the subject's right of publicity has occurred. The subject of the photo can sue, but will have to prove damages. If the subject of the photo is not someone famous, it will almost certainly not be worth filing suit. 3. A model release is typically a document in which the model gives the photographer permission to use his or her likeness, essentially waiving his or her right of publicity. Most releases are very far reaching, and give the photographer the right to do just about anything, commercial or otherwise, that he might want to do with the photos. 4. Model releases are usually, but not always, signed by the model as consideration for something -- either a modeling fee or images to use in his or her portfolio, travel expenses, etc. 5. If a photographer intends to sell the images, say, for an ad campaign, the client of the photographer will, unless he is a complete idiot, require that the photographer has gotten a release from the model to protect him, the client, from a lawsuit by the model claiming his or her rights to publicity have been misappropriated. 6. Often a photographer, who owns all the rights to the photographs, will grant the model a usage license to use some or all the photographs. The license may be very broad, giving the model the right to reproduce and sell the images, but it is more likely to be restricted. For example, the license may give the model the right to use the photos for personal use on social media, and/or on the model's Web site for self-promotion. Often the model is restricted from selling the images. 7. The OP wanted to know if the photographer can use the images without a model release. Yes, he can, subject to the model's possible claims of misappropriation of his or her right to publicity. 8. Others have raised the issue of the value of signing a release by the model. The model really has nothing to gain by signing the release, except that most photographers who know what they're doing won't go forward without a signed release. So if he or she doesn't sign the release, he or she won't work and won't get paid, whether cash or trade. 9. The wise photographer, even one who is purely a hobbyist, will always require a release from the model. Who knows, some day the hobbyist photographer will be discovered as the true artist he is and his photographs will become valuable. If an ad agency decides it really wants that image of Suzy Creamcheese the photographer took years ago, but the photographer never got a release, then the ad agency will go elsewhere. It never hurts to require a release, and all but the most naive rookie models will sign one without question because that's just part of the way business is done. 10. What I've said here applies to the U.S. I understand that Canada's laws, and those of many other countries, are quite different. Y'all foreigners need to do your own homework.
Victoria Secret in Model Colloquy
And you DON'T contribute to these threads with your experiences to make yourself feel big and importnat telling models how to do their job when by your own admission you aren't going to ever pay them if you can help it? I have said those things because it has become all to easy for twats to put down the idea of neing a fit model as though it is lowly. Perhaps it is to some. BUT I imagine that other models would be quite inspired by the fact we get a few nice moments such as working with famous models. Do you HONESTLY think I am in the least bothered by the experience? I am a scientist and a geographer; this was a little pleasant detour for me and in the greater scheme of things all modelling to me is fairly unimportant. The design element is FAR more important to me. Which was another reason I enjoyed it. But all through most of my academic career and working life I socialise and work with people who I have the utmost admiration and respect for. You may not be impressed by the fact I have worked with the top sceintists in the world in my field; but to me they are my heroes and people I look up to. BUT I know others would realise that having the opportunity of working with famous models would be nice. Now. I have cited you a 5ft 2 " model on MM who appears to have been a fit model for VS. So that kind of negates the thrust of your argument. You know NOTHINg about fit - either the scale of people working in it, what we do, or why we get paid well. Other here are contemptuous about it and that is the only reason I have cited my runway excperience. Sharing one's field of experience for other is part of what I am doing here in forums. I made a living, had some memorable moments that I know other people would prize; and therefore want to say hey go for it it's cool. It is on my profile because it gets me some paid fashion show work for small boutiques etc because equally they appear impressed with it. But I do NOT get that work from forums; and I do NOT hang around in forums sharing my experiences to show off. That is a pathetic and ad hominem attack of the kind I have come to expect from you when defeated in debate. Now;' we have taken up enough of this thread with this; Tiffany has summed up the situation very well above and IF you had respected my insights it would never have gone on. But I know your game here is to put down models. And I simply will not have it when your experience is only the small bit of modelling work to which you aspire. Good luck with that you are a great photographer; but it shouldn't require you laying down your authoritah over models when you only know a small part of what we do. Because you and other narrow view photographers may think the op can't achieve a modelling career with VS doesn't mean her only option is to get her tits out. It isn't (and when it is models would be far better aiming at art institutions and artists as they ALL actually pay) . It will still be a hard ambition to get to even be a fit model; but it is possible. My experience shows EXACTLY that and that is why it is relevant. I do nudes true. BUT this has accounted for a tiny percentage of my paid work; but it has got me clothed work and art isntitution work. I have no issue with it so you know I am not a model who you think the only option is this and doesn't want to do it. But no doubt you will continue to trawl these forums telling us how to do our job and that boutiques don't pay models and other such utter drivel. My last boutique job got me £400 worth of clothing and £200. I think the least I have ever got is £75 and that was because it was for charity. I even get sent clothing to wear it to events from a major design house half way across the planet. You don't know the half. Of course Agencies are responsible for reliability of models so you have some kind of insurance; but if you have a good reputation as a freelance you can mop up the vast amount of work that is there which simply can't afford agency girls. And that def applies to fit. I have told you before Tony; references. Pay more for agency girls if you want but lots of people don't find it necessary because they want your references and then they don't get problems.
Victoria Secret in Model Colloquy
That's because they don't actually hire models. Here's how it works. You buy a template which comes with stock images of models in lingerie. You then get stock images of your product. Notice how most of the images don't show the models faces. That's because they are also being used on other sites. Hiring even non agency models is expensive and most companies are looking to save cash. One of the companies near the bottom appears to be using a plus model. That may be a model they hired. However in general they are not setting up shoots with amateur models petite or not. There isn't this wellspring of work for non agency standard models. Fit modelling which I'm not all that familiar with but I did some research uses non agency models but my best guess is there are more then plenty to do the work. Lets take Hanky Panky which is a big brand: They do fashion shows and use non agency models of every size but if you review their site its a stock shot with more images again without the models faces showing. In HP's case with their shows they may pick models from the audience to model their things Companies just aren't looking to hire amateur models. They go to agencies to avoid flakes and bs. They tend to always use standard size models. I won't say every company but not enough won't to even talk about and that's why you don't see any information about 'working' for them as a model on their sites. I don't want to continue this debate about how things work in the UK because I live in America and so does the OP. However those who think I'm full of it. All the companies have a contact email. Write them and ask about becoming a model. Screw what I say or anybody else. Find out what they say and how they hire models.
Victoria Secret in Model Colloquy
It isn't exceptions: if you LOOK at castings for fit models as those of us who ARE or have been fit models do regularly you will realise that what a generalised article may say is not necessrily the whole picture. Again; you can read an article that says model are between 5ft 7 AND 5FT 8ins and size 4 or whatever yet I cited a solid example of a California dress company looking for a size 18 fit model on here recently. Now let us look at your cite. Perfect Fit is a Southern California fitting agency. No probs; but let us actually see what else is cited on their pages: "Fitting model: If you're someone who's a perfect size fill-in-the-blank and has dimensions that match fashion industry standards -- "plus," "petite" and "big and tall" sizes included -- you may find work as a fitting model with a clothing company or clothes designer" So in other words they come in ALL shapes and sizes which is what I have said. "The most successful fitting models who make six figures know how clothes are made, know how different fabrics behave, and are very knowledgeable about the line they're modeling." Which is why I stated that it IS an advantage to be a fan or work for the company in some other way; or have a knowledge or experience of garments. In my interview at AP I was able to demonstate an in depth knowledge of their products going back a long way. So Briana being a fan and working for the company already is an advantage IF she happens to see an opening for a fit job with them that her stats suit. That is unlikely; which is why I suggested looking at other lingerie companies; as she may suit what someone is looking for. If I hadn't got the AP job I'd have maybe got another one with someone else as I had several interviews that week. For every job I saw over a month or so I was the wrong stats for 90% of them but still managed to get several interviews lines up. Most of them I actually saw were for size 12 women. These aren't catwalk clothes they are making they are the real thing to fit real women. "A successful fitting model can earn between $750 and $1,500 a day, Roberrts noted. On an hourly basis, you might earn between $200 and $275, Levine said. And you might work three-to-five days a week, for between five and eight hours a day." Which is what I have said: few other modelling jobs offer such security in terms of job longevity, good pay and hours guaranteed. Not that I earned that; and I thought my pay was good. So they are talking about the top paying companies. My partner is a designer and told me this morning that the small factory in which he had his first collection made up had three fit models on the staff. They wouldn't have been paid anything like that and all had other duties. So fit models at the level being talked about are also just the top of the iceberg. In a recession small fashion companies are not going to book fit models at those wages through agencies; but there are an awful lot of them. If you are making garments you need fit models. That is an awful lot of work for a lot of girls besides the forty earning that kind of money in So Cal. "The model is the one that gives (designers and seamstresses) the direction of how to make the garment," Levine said. "The model can make or break your sales." Which again is what I have said: a good fit model is HIGHLY valued by the company; and they do not want to lose them. So; if you are going to research a field which you don't know a great deal about make sure you research your own citations thoroughly rather than cherry picking something that appears to support one part of what you are saying assuming I won't read it. I did; and most of it supports what I have said. As far as most models getting work through an Agency of course an agency is going to say that!!!! And it is likely true when it comes to the $1500 a day jobs!! But yes there is nothing wrong with trying for an agency and they do place a lot of girls - with the small minority of companies that will pay high agency fees for fit models. But lots won't or can't and still pay well.
Victoria Secret in Model Colloquy
Oh here we go again. I have had it with people like photographers and everyone else telling me , a professional fitting model, what fitting models do and don't do. Firstly; the idea of the work not being steady compared with being an agency model or a photographic model is an absolute nonsense. YOU ARE GENERALLY PAYROLLED and pay tax PAYE. THAT is how regular it is. Secondly obviously you have to travel to where the head office is. So if you apply for a fit modellng job and get it you will have to move if you are miles from it. For things like merchandise catalogies they generally don't use agency models for everything. I did a few shoots. That IS going to happen if you are a fit model because you look like you have been poured into the stuff; whereas an agency model isn't going to have the same stats generally; has to be pinned from behind etc... but they will want a well known model or face of the brand obviously where they can. If it is a big company naturally they will use agency models for their website and much of the catalogue work; and for runway shows. But you do get a shot at doing a bit of it; and a lot of the parts stuff. But for smaller companies - particularly vintage style lingerie ones they will often go for models specialising in that look who are again often the fit models. AP had so much work I couldn't do it all; and I would still be doing it now if I hadn't moved away to do a PhD. They still ask me back regularly. This is three years on. When you have a brand like Agent Provocateur or I suppose perhaps VS over there; there is a strong pride in working for the company. That often goes from the girls in the shop, to the office girls, to the fit models, to the designers. With AP to get that pink iconic uniform you must want it; and wear it with the pride. The girls in the shops do; they look amazing; and would have KILLED for my job; and customer loyalty is that strong that even the customers want the uniforms. I am telling you this because I think Brianna feels the same kind of loyalty to VS. She may not ever get to wear the wings; she may not even get to do a catalogue shoot. She may get to work in the shop; and maybe do a bit of fit for a small lingerie designer to get some experience; and who knows one day she could be the fit model; and even do a parts shoot for a catalogue. A dream maybe; but not altogether an fantasy. It is something I achieved for what I think is a far more prestigous company in terms of class and edge; and did runway with Silvia Dimitrova. And there is nothing special about me. Just 5ft 6ins and 29 years old when I did that my first proper fashion show. And I didn't try that hard; but I didn't have anyone telling me I was dreaming when I went for the job or that it wasn't regular etc etc A lot of girls who start on the shop floor graduate to working higher up in the company too. They may start off wanting to do my job; but they can end up being part of the team in an altogether more important role in head office. Dreams often have unexpected diversions which can be good. But just because a girl has aspirations to be a model or part of the team for Agent Provocateur in some way because they love the brand doesn't mean they expect to get Monica Cruz Kylie Minogue or Daisy Lowe job. In any case; they get to wear the stuff for a day shooting I got to wear it every day; and it is built on my body!! so stuff those of you who think fit modelling is somehow low. So I imagine it is the same for Briana with VS. When I walked in and out of the office there would often be an immaculately turned out 17 year old rockabilly girl or two just wanting a glimpse of the interior or their picture taking with one of us or an autograph. I know when they said they wanted to be a model for AP they would at least end up one day working in a shop; working in the office as an intern, or maybe even working as a fit model. And there is nothing wrong with that. Indeed; as I said that uniform is highly treasured. Look down your nose at it at your peril.
Victoria Secret in Model Colloquy
I am getting pretty dam annoyed with this. A photographer telling models how to make a living and what's available etc. YOU HAVE NO CLUE how a model gets her work together because your experience of modelling is a small percentage of the type of work available; and it is focussed at the pinnacle: well there is a pretty huge pyramid underneath it. You apparently have NO understanding of the scale and amount of work offered just by fitting. EVERY company who make stuff needs fit models and they are ALL paid. With small companies it is a few weeks a year or a bit now and again. With bigger companies they can employ fitting models of all shapes and sizes. In both cases the chances are you will do some shooting, some runway. In addition to all this there is the boutique work. Unless they are going to go to the expense of running a campaign with an ad company they are NOT going to use agency models. The average boutique owner would just laugh at that. You are in CUCKOO land if you think that is going to happen. Hell I have done shoots and little shows regularly where I alone or with one or two others are the token pro models brought in to show the shop girls and the clients how to do it; because that is all the budget they have. They may employ a photographer but they get the models. Yes; we have all seen the faces of some of you guys when you think you are going to get Kate Moss and you get us. Then we get appreciated when and only when you see us actually work. You keep talking about doing things like Dove editorials. For every model that does that there are a hundred possibly a thousand doing just the boutique and fit work for designers plus all the catalogue and parts shoots. One of my colleagues does almost exlusively hands; but does some fit also for a lingerie company. I have done hand shoots too. Another girl does shoes and a bit of fit and a bit of fashion college and life drawing. Then there are all those who do the corporate and promo work with a bit of fashion etc. then the alt girls. Huge in London; there are even character agencies like UGLY - some of the girls I know are with them; but again they get most of the work themselves. Some do styling, MUA etc too; but they still do a fair bit of modelling. YES you have to work hard, be reliable, be versatile etc BUT if you do those things the work is sometimes THROWN at you - hence the need for a network of other reliable models who can cover for you. Photography is needed and sometimes it pays but if your port is getting you work that is all you need UNLESS you have aspirations to do editorial. Most of us DO NOT. I guess companies have had bad experiences too with booking models who are also agency signed only to lose them a few weeks into a collection fit: disaster. I won't audition unless it pays or shoot unless it says because I DO NOT HAVE To to get the kind of work I was inundated with. Juggling existing commitments with new work was always the hardest and often having to give away peach jobs regular and well paid because you are already doing it for somone else. The Op is NOT going to get to be the kind of model you keep talking about; neither am I, and neither are most of the girls here. BUT if they set their sights realistically it is not difficult to earn a living modelling. There is PLENTY of work; it just may not be very glamorous to do fit or showroom or fashion college or promo or catalogue or regional ad/advertorial/editorial work etc. Now. I talked about football. You talk basketball: I know nothing about that. But in soccer there are HUNDREDS of teams; below the three divisions below the premiership. They are NOT amateur: they are paid. they don't earn thousands a week, but they earn a living. You may never hear of these teams if you don't live local to them. Thousands of professional footballers. Likewise in photography. A TINY minority of you will ever get anything published in a top fashion mag. Do we get in the photography forums saying stop dreaming you'll never earn a living at photography? NO. Why? Because obviously we know a lot of photographers who are happy with their little business making a living shooting all the weddings, family portraits, shooting the local Indian restaurant interior for an ad, doing an event or a sport etc etc. They ALL may do a bit of fashion/glamour for enjoyment/practice and if lucky may graduate to do the odd nice fashion editorial for the local mag or boutique. But I just couldn't conceive of putting those guys down just because it didn't register on my radar because I had my aspirations set on being a big shot fashion model. THAT is the equivalent of what you are doing in these threads - simply because you have NO CONCEPT of all the bulk of mostly mundane modelling work below the top of the iceberg. It is insulting as much as it is ignorant of what many of us do. If I hear ONCE MORE that there are only agency fashion models and the girls who get their tits out and other than that just one or two mighty lucky tiny girls who make it doing Dove commercials I swear I am going to scream!!!!!! Can't you see it is like us saying to a photographer well either you have to shoot top fashion models or you have to shoot tits and there is NO other paid work??????? Maybe the odd model with her head stuck up her own arse may think that is the only way photographers make a living but most of us realise what else they do. earlier questioned my credibility as a payrolled model for a top fashion house. Once more; would you like me to send you proof of my PAYE tax payslips? And if I do; will you apologise? Because I think you are going to have to see it to believe it that every big clothing manufacturer has girls like us working for them and earning a living.
Is Facebook killing Model Mayhem. in General Industry
It is so odd that this thread came up when it did. I just closed down my regular Facebook account and opened up another one strictly for models. This happened on Wed and as of today I have 18 models who have friended me. Model Mayhem was just not doing it for me so I tried an experiment. Any model who wanted to work with me as in serious and not yanking my chain had to friend me on Facebook. It worked. The last model that flaked on me, two weeks ago in fact, said she did not have a Facebook page but she sure texted a lot. No surprise. No Facebook, no shoot. Totally flaked. Facebook, in a sense, is like a model talking to you without her sunglasses on. She can't hide behind a wall of texts or messages. Her life is in the open and therefore, they will be more forth coming. My first model to follow the Facebook rule actually showed up for the shoot. We are scheduled for another one in December if she can make it back to the island. She's from the mainland US. I have come to the realization that Model Mayhem has reached a point where models feel it is actually expected and even tolerated for them to flake. Model Mayhem is no longer for professionals. The site does nothing regarding flakes and the reputation is starting to stick. And it's not like MM has not been warned by it's members, it has, dozens of times. MM in effect is become a site full of bloat. Yep, empty calories. With all that in mind, photographers are now forced to find other venues with more reliable sources and Facebook has become that alternative. On my Facebook modeling page, I only allow models and those directly related to the modeling industry. No friends, family or photographers. Because of that, I am denying a lot of friend requests. Then again, in a matter of three day's, I have approved 18 people who are interested in modeling for me. Will they? Who knows. What I do know is that Facebook targets models who are interested in me and my work. What do I offer models who join my FB page? Updates on my work, casting calls and more importantly, I provide them with news and articles which are focused on the modeling industry. No jokes, no religion, no politics, witty sayings etc. I strictly post modeling stuff, nothing else. It's what the models want. Add that Facebook is a direct annex to my website, I seem to have a winner. It seems to be working. MM really needs to get it's act together. Stuffing this site with tons of no call/no show folks and bloating membership numbers with people who have not been on the site for one, two or more years is bringing down it's viability as a serious resource for modeling and photography. Facebook is slowly eating MM's lunch. -Koa-
Fabulous people appreciation thread in General Industry
In no particular orer of Awesomeness; models, MUAs and others with whom I've worked and lived to tell the tale: Laura Slater - Model #1611878 Laura is the kind of model and indeed type of person, that makes Model Mayhem work (when it does works). Not only is she beautiful but she conducts herself like a true professional. She has great communication skills and is quick to respond. Laura does her own make-up to a high standard and got up at 4:30am to arrive on time for our shoot. She is wlling to trek, climb, trudge, get stung, and fight of stray Llamas all for the sake of her art. Laura, you were a complete joy to work with. Shaz - Model # 2583503 Shaz is beautiful, professional and has a wonderful physique. She has great communication skills and arrived bang on time after travelling half way up the country. Hoping we can shoot together again soon. I wouldn't hesitate to thoroughly recommend her. Elesha Eden - Model # 2475901 A wonderful girl to work with. Faultless communications. Drove 4 hours for the shoot and arrived early. Endearingly shy and beautiful. Nicky Hayden - mua - # 1403447 Nicky was great fun to work with and a creative professional. Her eye for wardrobe was a bonus too. Looking forward to working with her again. Emily Griffith - Model # 2608218 Dancer and all round nice person. An untapped talent. Rachel Betteridge Model # 2174115 Rachel is a warm and friendly person and was great fun to shoot. Carla Shepherd - Model # 2398590 A beautiful, professional and easy model to shoot. Gabrielle - Model # 588142 A creative and bendy traffic stopping crowd pleaser! Great fun working with you Gabs. : ) Darcy Jaq - Model # 2263038 A beautiful woman with a very adaptable face and look. A great professional and now a good friend. Claire O'Brien - mua #2287319 Claire bailed me out big time when a another mua had to cancel 24hrs before an all day shoot. Claire's a true professional, a seriously talented artist and a delight to work with. Claire Glauch - mua # 2284881 Wonderful mua and great fun to be on a shoot with. What more could one want. I hope she'll put up with me again. : ) Mandy Swan - # Model 512920 A very professional and fascinating woman. Elle-Rose - Model # 881729 Her portfolio says more than I ever could, and much more articulately. She is a consumate professional; ethereally beautiful. Natalie Green - model: #2289016 Wonderful model, great communication, beautiful smile, fantastic personality, wonderful company and a real professional. Stuart Reardon - model: #2225474 Top athlete, all round nice guy! Jamie Deacon - model: #2093520 Beautiful, intelligent, modest, professional and a joy to work with. Sarah Vaites - MUA: #1732977 Pleasure to work with, talented, willing, unassuming and professional.
Editing Turnaround Time for model Comp Cards in Photography Talk
Hi All, I'm looking to get a little information about everyones workflow for handling comp card photo sessions. I've been working with an agency for a little while and it seems like it's just taking forever to get the models orders for thier comp cards fulfilled. I'm not sure where to really begin, so I'll describe the process I've been going through: 1) Agency books sessions with models and I (usually 3-4 models in a singe day) 2) Shoot the sessions 3) I "rough edit" (straighten, color-correct, remove glaring imperfections) and upload the digital proofs to an online gallery (one gallery for each model) 4) model makes his/her selections for comp card (the sessions include 4-5 outfits) 5) Model reviews selections with agency 6) Agency lets me know which shots to fully retouch. 7) I deliver shots to model/agency on a disc. I'm experiencing a LOT of lag time from when I get the proofs uploaded to when the models make their final selections and I can finally get the retouching done and deliver the finished photos. I don't know if the lag is coming from the models taking their time on the selections or the agency not letting me know right away. Either way it's frustrating to have this process take so long. I've waited for 3-4 weeks to hear back about the final selections and as a result I get more urgent jobs in the meantime and to finally get the edits done puts me at about 2-3 weeks to get the final selections back. Understandably the models are miffed about it taking so long. I'm looking for advice for ways to get this streamlined. Would it be better to work with the models directly and go over the shoots with the models myself (Isn't this preferred anyway?) Do you usually book a follow-up appointment to review the proofs with the models? Is it normal for an agency to approve models photos for use in their comp cards (this is a beginner agency, by the way. The models have pretty much no experience)? I enjoy doing modeling photography and I don't mind helping out aspiring models, but this process is really discouraging me from trying to pursue this with the agencies in my town. Any advice is appreciated!
I'm confused again... o_O in Model Colloquy
A photographer who says he can get a model in Playboy should immediately raise some eyebrows - but there are many reasons why the credits may not match. Models can and do change their modeling names on MM. When I upload a photo, I show the modeling name the model was using at the time of the shoot on my list of credits. I don't check back regularly to see if any of the models has changed her modeling name. There are other possible explanations. I shot a model (who is not on MM), and the makeup was done by a professional MUA - whose account on MM is as a model, not an MUA. When I entered the model's MM number on the credits after uploading, it showed the MUA as the model. As soon as I discovered that it was confusing, I removed the credit. But still... There's a photo of an MUA in my portfolio. She is shown as the MUA but not as the model, although she was both. Also, I may add a model under Credits, then later remove the photo because it no longer represents my best work - but the model's name is still on the list. Sometimes I add the model's name to the list before I've done the post-processing and uploaded a photo. Or I may decide after a shoot not to upload any photos from the shoot. There are two models on my Credits list that I've shot with, but I forgot to have the model sign a release at the end of the shoot. I emailed them my release form as a PDF file. Both said they would sign and return them - but I’m still waiting for the releases after 2-3 months. So I can't use the photos in my portfolio (although the models have the photos in theirs). I could demand that they remove the photos - but is it really worth it?
Do models know what 'better' means? in General Feedback
One of the other problems is where is the photo to be used, a photographers portfolio may have different images then what is in a models portfolio. That is the photographer may have more artistic images that would work in galleries or matted and framed hanging on a wall as a piece of art, so it could be a perfect image in the artistic sense but for showcasing a model just not working. Just a guess, but 10% of new models portfolios suffer from image quality. Number one offender is a grainy cell phone image with motion blur , this is just not a quality image. [Yes some of the new cell phones actually do a good job now days, so this may be a fading term] Since we can not critique the photographers work in a models portfolio, when the term better photographers is used, so do the models know what is meant? For me a quality modeling image should have these qualities, in this order of importance [Chime in if you think order should be changed, or item added or deleted] 1: Models eyes should be in focus [Master guide if both eyes are not in focus then eye closest to camera to be in focus] 2: The eyes should have sufficient light so they are easily seen. [Remember modeling portfolio] 3: Best when the eyes are looking where the nose is pointed. [That is eyes should not be locked to one side, looking up so high that a band of white is under the iris “Canoe eye”] [Side note, please don’t process the white of the eyes so they look like they would glow in the dark] 4: The best image is achieved when proper body cropping is followed, don’t crop below first joint [Rules or guides are there because some great artist before us figured this out, so if photographers were smart they would not try to re-invent the wheel, and just use what works] 5: The over all image should have good exposure of both the model and background [The sky should not be blown out, or have over exposed areas of models face, hands, etc.] 6. Good composition, if the model is facing photo right, walking or running toward photo right space should be in front of model so she has some area to move into, and less space behind her [Rule of thirds, Golden Spiral, Golden Triangle and all the other compositional layouts should be applied] 7: Good lighting, quality light, flattering light [Not shooting in high noon style light unless fill flash, scrims or what ever corrective measures are used] 8: Using correct lens, if doing a head shot don’t use a wide angle lens as facial elements will be distorted [Nose looks like it is bigger then life] 9: Correct color, if it’s a white top it should be white in the photo [Correct color balance, i.e. yes shooting at sun rise or set, white will not look white] 10 Background should not be busy and competing with model, bright areas can distract the viewers eyes [Normally a background that is out of focus and of muted color complementing the models eyes or wardrobe will work best {head shot vs. clothing shot}] 11: Things not working for a models portfolio would be the “glare photos” where the model is totally obscured by lens flair [Remember the model shoul be showcased, not producing a work of art, for a photographers portfolio or wall art] opinions
Setting up dates with photographers in General Industry
Scheduling can be difficult at times. A time slot that is open one day may not be open the next. There have been times when I approached a model about doing a shoot, and by the time the model responded to me, I had booked another model. Sometimes when time is important (an unexpected availability, a publication deadline, etc.) it's just not a good idea to contact just one model and hope for a response. Just as an example, almost three months ago a magazine contacted me to ask me to do a shoot on short notice (to replace a photo that had been yanked because they found that the model had not signed her own name to the model release). I searched MM and found 60+ local models who met the criteria. I narrowed the list to 16 and PM'd them. This was 3-4 days before the deadline. While every one of them responded to me, ten of them responded after the deadline had passed. The last one responded four days ago. Of those who responded before the deadline, only three said they could do the shoot. I selected one and scheduled the shoot - for about six hours before the magazine's deadline. Btw, the shoot never happened. As I was approaching the location, a suburban park, I phoned the model to see if she had arrived there yet. She said her 13-year-old (not a typo) daughter was backing a car out of the driveway and dragged her (the model's) boyfriend down the driveway. The model went home to deal with that. At that point, I couldn't reach my next choice. About a week ago, a clothing designer from out of state contacted me to shoot three models on July 3. She had already selected one model (who would have been my first choice among local models), two MUA's and a hair stylist. I suggested three other local models to her to fill the other two spots - then PM'd the models to let them know that she might be contacting them. Last time I checked (one minute ago) one of the models still hadn't read her MM mail from me - nor, presumably, from the clothing designer. The moral: Check your MM mail regularly. (I'm not saying you didn't. I really don't know the circumstances.) If it's something you're inerested in doing, respond quickly. If only to say, "I'm at work. I'll check my calendar and get back to you this evening." Models on MM collectively have a horrible reputation when it comes to responding to PM's. (So do photographers apparently, but I can't attest to that.) Hence photographers often contact several models in hopes of getting a response from one of them. Often I've seen photographers suggest to other photographers in the forums that, rather than book a single model for a TF shoot, they book three for the same time and hope one shows up. (Fortunately I haven't had reason to do that. Well, maybe I should have once.) I've seen several photographers report that their flake rate (models who agree to a shoot, then don't show up and don't call) is 50% or higher. If the only thing that happened is that photographer's availability changed between the initial contact and your response, I wouldn't worry about it.
How Backlogged Are You? in Photography Talk
Most of what's below applies only to TF shoots. Paid work always comes first. I think some models have no idea what a photographer does after the shoot. When the shoot ends, it's finished for the model, MUA, etc. For the photographer, it's just beginning. The last weekend in May I shot one model (studio and location) for five hours on Friday. On Saturday, I shot three models for nine hours. On Sunday, three models for seven hours. We're talking about roughly 1,600 images. I was already behind then, and I haven’t shot since – because I’m trying to do some catching up on post-processing first. Just selecting which images to post-process literally takes more time than the shoot itself. A lot more. Did I mention that I still have a day job? I work through one wardrobe/makeup/hair/background set at a time. First I weed out the obvious rejects. Then in several stages I look at each image at various magnifications, in some cases up to 100%, and then give each one that's not eliminated a 3-star rating in ACR. Each time I go through those that remain, I look for unsharp images, eyes closed, awkward hand positions, bland expressions, unflattering lighting (the lights are generally stationary through a set; the model isn't) – any reason to eliminate each one. I also look at various croppings. Each time I go through them, I eliminate the star rating for those that that don't make the cut. The others either stay at 3 or get 4 stars. Each pass takes longer, because the differences become more minute. Usually I end up with about 3-6 images with 5-star ratings for each set. Finally I pick the one from each set (if any) that I want to use in my own portfolio. Time permitting, I may retouch 1-2 more so the model can have a choice. I have done some TF shoots because I liked the model and wanted to help build her portfolio – knowing that most likely I wouldn't get anything to add to my own portfolio. (Not lately, though.) I'm very picky about retouching. I'm also not the fastest with Photoshop (which I started using around October 1). By the time I'm finished with an image, I may have 20+ layers of post-processing in Photoshop. Sometimes the initial direction I take an image in isn't working and I start over at Square 1. It's not uncommon to spend over an hour with an image. It’s not unheard of to spend more than three hours. (Yes, some of the first ones I did I want to re-do – when I have the time.) Rarely do I process more than one image from a shoot at a time. Since I have several shoots (and models) pending, I'll do one image for one model, then one for another model, etc., rotating through the shoots and models. Sometimes when I'm behind (which has been the norm since before the first of the year), or when getting the look I want in an image is beyond my current Photoshop capabilities, I farm some images out to a professional retoucher – at about $20 per image. Currently I have more than six days of shooting in various stages of post-processing. Paid work always takes precedence. For paid jobs, I deliver whatever was agreed to. When I do a TF shoot, a model can expect at least 1-2 images from each set; That has been in my profile since Day 1. So far no models have complained. I’m always up front about the fact that I am way behind on retouching and that paid work always comes first. However, two models have asked for ALL of the images from a shoot – after the shoot, of course. If a model specifies a time limit for delivery of images before the shoot, I just don’t shoot with her. If a model requests (what to me is) an unreasonable number of images or asks for the unretouched images, I refer her to my profile. The answers to those requests have been there since Day 1. When I shoot, my goal is not to see how many images I can cram on a CD or a DVD. My goal is to produce at one least one finished, true portfolio-quality image per set. That has been in my profile since Day 1. I was taught at an early age (15) that a professional photographer shows only his best work. I don't give out unretouched images, and I don't allow anyone else to retouch my photos except a professional retoucher working under my direction. That has been in my profile since Day 1, too. I've heard horror stories (some of them in previous forum threads) from other photographers who don't have those policies about substandard photos (with substandard or no retouching) appearing in MM, Facebook and elsewhere – credited to the photographer. I’d rather be shooting than retouching. The more time I spend retouching, the less time I have for shooting – and the more models I have to say 'no' to. The amount of time I can devote to TF decreases each month.
Touch me not Models in General Industry
Working in a different part of the world may offer some perspective to this dilemma you all seem to be having. The more I read this thread, the more I only shake my head in frustration over how stupid some people can get. And here is why: 1) Modelling is a profession much like everything else we do in life. As stated earlier, Fashion Models are not touched, they are manhandled, and they have to live with it. The same for Agency models that are pure professionals. Why wouldn't this go for MM models or Internet models as well? Are they a different breed? It makes one wonder.... 2) I usually have atleast a make-up artist with me on the set when I shoot, especially when doing glamour or pin-up because of the extreme make-up involved. However, rarely do I ask the MUA to do shit other than keep an eye on the make-up. Adjusting is something I do myself, as I know exactly how I want it. This goes for almost everything, except their pubic area. I have never had issues, always returning models, and no problems. But then again, I never do TFPs. Always paid work, and mostly from Agencies. 3) Being a model is more than just standing there and look pretty and hope for the best. Some of the model behavior in here flat out grosses me out. Why the hell are you models in the first place? The personal space thing is null and void the MOMENT you show up for a shoot. I never ask permission to do anything. I always say: "excuse me...." and do what I need to do. Simple. But even then, its very important to have a 10 minute meeting ahead of the shoot explaining the rules. It works wonders. Personal space be damned. I agree with the OP that models like that have no future in the industry. What really bugs me the most is that the models here actually have most of the photographers agreeing with them that "never touch me." I agree that perhaps they have met a few too many GWCs, a few too many gropers for other reasons than professionalism, but hey, met a few very unprofessional girls too. Same thing, just different reasons behind the unprofessionalism. I dont say that its ok to "grope" a model. Of course it isnt. I never touch a model for other than getting my pictures perfect. Period. Feeling up a model never even occured to me to do. And most models know this already, especially the professionals. But models coming into this business with the idea that they will be left alone is sadly mistaken. Its a rough business, and survival of the fittest. If you prove not worthy to work with, then you lose work. Strange that last time I saw Kate Moss being photographed (was videod by the magazine, just cant for the life of me remember which one), she was both touched and GROPED by the photographer, and it was like a normal part of the day for her. As long as its not meant in any sexual way, and is for professional means, it shouldnt bother the model at all. Maybe I am a bad communicator then. Maybe I need to visualize. Who cares? My advice to photographers who encounter issues with this. Use professionals. Doesnt cost THAT much to hire them, if you keep away from the supermodels. Bottom line is that I have done this for a few years now and never ever had issues. NEVER. I touch my models as I see fit to get the images I need. They know this BEFORE we start shooting, as I dont have to lose focus by asking later on. But, I never grope their pubes or boobs. Thats a big no no for me too. But anything else is fair game. And the models are fine with it. And unless you work with amateurs, they know this already. If they dont, they have some issues themselves. Get used to it or get out. Easy as that. Now, flame me too, I couldnt care less. EDIT: realized this is an old thread. I humbly apologize.
problems with boyfriend escorts in General Industry
Well, I tend to stay off of these threads because people tend to get really wound up and say awful things to people that they really don't know very well, but I felt compared to share a few thoughts along with a couple of experiences that I have had with "Escorts" who are also "Boyfriends" or "Husbands"... The whole argument about photographers secretly wanting to get laid is funny to me because this whole dynamic is based off of how males and females interact in dating scenarios. I say that to say if a photographer is seeking to get laid at the conclusion of a photoshoot it's probably because he either has in the past, or is confident that he can in the present. This is because there are "Models" out there and on this site that openly offer "extras" at shoots because they are using MM to hustle. When it comes to dealing with women, men tend to do whatever works. If you are getting hit on or propositioned at shoots, blame the models that are sleeping with photogs for money. (sorry-Psycology Major) I have only been shooting for about 4 years now, but I stopped allowing escorts after my 5th shoot. In these 5 shoots I learned some very important and life saving lessons: 1. A model who cannot do her job without her boyfriend present is a potential serious problem. These girls give you all kinds of reasons why they cannot and will not shoot without an escort and they always ask you to trust that thier escort will behave themselves. I always ask them if thier escort acts up at the shoot, what they would be prepared to do about it, and they always answer by saying "That won't happen". I had a model who brought her boyfriend with her to a shoot with me. The shoot was outdoors and it was clothed (Swimwear). When he met me and saw that I was tall, young (fairly, anyway) somewhat attractive (I guess) and in good shape, he pulled her to the side and asked if they could leave. You see, not all of us are in our fifties and sixties, married and bald or fat. The model said no to the boyfriend and we began the shoot. The boyfriend spent the next 2 hours pacing behind me back and forth, banging his hands against his forehead and talking to himself loudly. Eventually he spazzed and kicked over a stand with one of my lights on it. The light was damaged and did not work anymore. I cancelled the shoot of course, but not only did the model not control her escort, she felt that she was still owed every penny that was agreed upon for the shoot due to the fact that she showed up and did her part. I gave her half, though I knew I should not have, but she basically dared me to be an asshole and I let her get away with it. You see that day I learned that the models typically don't care if you get what you need from a shoot as long as they get what they need. She had pissed her boyfriend off and they were in a full fledged argument in the middle of the shoot and that argument resulted in me having to buy new stuff. So I took my lumps and chalked it up as experience... 2. Models always assume that in a photoshoot scenario, that they are always the ones that are in danger of being hurt or taken advantage of. The fact is in a situation like this neither person knows the other very well, and that element alone can even the sides very effectively. I rented a very nice hotel suite and scheduled a shoot with a model. She asked if she could bring someone with guessed it, her "Boyfriend". I reluctantly agreed because I had already paid for the room and did not want to risk not having the shoot at all. They showed up and I was setting up. The model came over and greeted me and so did the boyfriend. He took a seat in the living area while I continued to set up the model went into the bathroom to change and do her make-up. The boyfriend came over to where I was (I had my back to him) and called out to me. When I turned around there were two guys instead of one, and I was asked to set my phone down on the bed along with my wallet and leave EVERYTHING. I gave a look like "yeah, right" and that's when the second guy showed me the gun behind his back. I did what they asked and I left. Needless to say I had to rebuild my equipment inventory from, lenses, lighting, the whole it turned out, the plan always was to rob me from the very beginning. When I exited the hotel, shaking by the way because I so almost got shot, I got into my car and drove away. I called the cops, but nothing ever happened. I learned that day, that escorts are a responsibility that I just cannot ever deal with again. They break stuff, they steal and they sometimes attempt to direct your shoot by holding thier girlfriends hostage emotionally by showing thier disapproval without ever saying a word. I do not force models to come alone if they don't feel safe. In fact, I tell them if they don't feel safe to stay at home, because if they think something is going to happen by working with me, then it would be stupid of the to show up. I know I wouldn't come if I thought I was going to be taken advantage of. I offer meet and greets the day before a shoot, and the models can bring whoever they want. Some take it and some don't depending on logistics. I also offer to speak with models over the phone. At the end of the day policies are a reflection of people's personal experiences. Photogs that frown on escorts are not all up to no good. I look at it like this: If I am paying, why should I be forced into a situation where I am uncomfortable simply because you as the model, think I should. Some girls don't bring escorts because they have never had anything happen them where they feel like they need one, and most realize that it sometimes costs you jobs. I don't fault people either way. I no longer work with newbies unless thay have extensive ports and references, but even then it's a crapshoot, because after all, you don't put down the jobs where you acted a fool. That would be counter-productive. I lean towards very experienced, travelling, professionals models because they have a much longer track record and they may have something to lose by bahving in a way that is less than prefessional. I've just decided that I have to save money to work with those types of models, because in the beginning, my budget was the reason that I did not attempt to hire those models in the first place. And speaking of money, do people even realize how expensive a photoshoot is? Why spend hundreds of dollars to hire a model and hope she'll sleep with you? For the cost of a half day shoot, you could almost hire three hookers and get guaranteed sex. Anyway, I've talked long enough...
Modeling and getting paid in Model Colloquy
Let's talk about getting paid. This is more for models but photographers can chime in too. And mainly I am posting this because I get messages from "models" all the time asking how to get paid. Ladies and gentlemen, you can't just wake up one day and decide that you want to get paid. If you are not with an agency and you are working as a freelance model then you need to build a portfolio and market the hell out of yourself. Because honestly as models we are a product. But it doesn't just take beautiful images to get to the professional level, and if it was just images then anyone could photoshop themselves and brand themselves a pro. It takes experience, knowledge of posing, being able to express and emote, and being able to inspire who you work with. But not everyone can be a model, you either have "IT" or you don't. And if you have been modeling for years and haven't gotten to the level of pro then maybe you should find another job/hobby. A model will get paid by (a) a photographer who want to improve their skills (b) a photographer that really loves your look and can't live without it in their book (c) hobbyists or gwc's who just want to spend some time with a pretty girl OR (d) a client who hires a model and photographer, and both parties get paid. There are standards in this industry for a reason. Don't question them or complain that they are there. They won't change for you. Deal with them, understand them, and move on. Because I am 100% sure that there are millions of girls out there who either fall into that standard or don't complain about them. And they WILL get the job before you. After working with numerous agencies I have compiled a list of general standards Bikini/Lingerie Glamour Model: 5ft6-5ft8 34"-24"-34" Cup: B to D (Petite, or slender, well proportioned) Runway Model: 5ft8-6ft Bust 32"-34" waist 22"-26" hips 32"-34" Cup A to C Catalogue Model: 5ft7-5ft9 Bust 32"-36" Waist 24"-26" Hips 33"-35" Cup A to D Art Nude Model: 5ft-6ft any size or shape Let me also add this. Not everyone can be a model or photographer. A good photographer working with a bad/ugly model just produces good pictures of a bad/ugly model. A good model working with a bad photographer just produces bad images of a good model....
Models-Don't you like talking on the phone? in Model Colloquy
I get around 5 phone call requests a day.....from photographers, editors, directors, etc. I'm sorry, but I am not going to call all of them so that 30% of them can ask me to lunch and ask what I'm wearing this evening and what my hobbies are.....especially random people off the internet who were not refered to me through a friend or agent. Then I get texts from a few of them at 3:00am asking me to their best freind's birthday party! It's frustrating and offensive. I prefer the parameters of the shoot and basic details such as my agency would get for me to be provided in an email. It doesn't waste the photogtaphers time. He/she can copy/paste the same general email to 20 models. I feel that details need to be in writing in an email, and refered to later. Remember, if you are contacting us, you are a stranger off the internet and not refered to by a trusted friend or agent. A model may need a little more proof that you are legitimate or your offer is legitimate. Have you provided your business URL? Does your profile list your office or studio address? Is there a list of model referal links on your page? Concept? Who is the client? Very basic information of the shoot including estimated dates, usage, rates, etc. It has happened enough times to models that communication on the phone such as being assured over the phone "Oh, don't worry, the shoot is implied topless only" and then the poor model arrives to the shoot only to be told, "I TOLD you there was full nudity and you agreed!" That is one example of why most details should have been in writing/email. Promises and agreements should not be made over the phone. Emailing more information is also better than a 45 minute phone call when the model used roaming to take your call (costing her $75), or maxing out her limited minutes on her cell phone, and you haven't even narrowed it down to the final 3 models yet. Last month I had $150 in roaming charges for talking to two different photographers who told me nothing that could not have been in a general email copied and pasted to all the prospective models. One of them could not even stay focused on the purpose of the phone call and told me all about his theater trip the night before while I tried to re-direct the conversation back to business. I don't have time or energy for that. When you give adequate information and provided your most basic business information; when you've gotten replies to it and narrowed it down to the last few models, THEN it is not unreasonable to ask for a phone number. BTW, I have done MOST shoots via Model Mayhem and ALL shoots via my modeling agency without one phone call prior to a shoot. However as details are finalized I always provide my phone number, especially to be accessable en route to the shoot or to arrange a wardrobe fitting with the designer/stylist. Please, do not take it personally if a model does not initially call you. Do not think you are the only one asking for the model to call. You do not realize that there are a percentage of guys who want to talk to models everyday all day long (and seldom or never hire any models), and it ruins it for you photographers who have a legitimate and attractive assignment to offer. I hope that this perspective coming from a veteran model is a little helpful...... A few extra emails with general information helps models weed out who to focus their time on. And I believe models should reply to all emails in a timely manner. The time of all professionals are valuable, models and photographers, alike. Sorry for the verbosity of this reply. On my cell phone I cannot scroll up and edit. ;-)
Time to redefine or codify TF/TFCD in General Industry
I got stiffed yesterday by a photographer who refused to give me a copy of all the images after a TFCD shoot. First time ever I got stiffed on a shoot by a diva photographer claiming complete creative exclusivity of the images. He said he would email me "a few" of the images after editing. Excuse me? And my compensation for 9 hours commuting and a three hour shoot is "a few" images??????????? He said I did not know what TFCD means. Really? OK. Time to revisit the definition of TF. I propose we codify this here and now and may it serve as the template for all photographers and models in the future (wishful thinking). Let's go with this, three segments to the label when sending a TF offer to a model: TFxx: the first segment indicates the number of images the model will receive after the shoot, so TF10 means the model gets ten images. TF ALL means the model gets a copy of all the photos. PPI or NPPI: By using PPI, the photographer is stating "Post Processing Included" for the ten images. NPPI: No Post Processing Included. M, or P: M=Model, P=Photographer. Who chooses the images to be processed? M means the model looks at low resolution images in perhaps a grid folder view or at a website, and then selects the ten. P means the photographer selects the ten. The model has no input in the selection process. So lets look at a few examples at full speed: TF15-PPI-P The model gets 15 photos, post processing included, but the photographer chooses which 15 to give to the model. Since post processing is included the delivery method will be via email. TF5-PPI-M The model gets 5 images, post processing included, and the model also chooses which 5 he/she gets. TF ALL-NPPI No need for the third segment. The photographer will give the model a copy of all the photos after the shoot, no post processing included. Just burn them all to a disc and bid each other farewell. A fourth category is in order and is implied: H (High resolution). Funny how sometimes a photographer gets off on sending a model photos that are 50 KB in size. I cant print that. It's useless to me. In all cases the photos given to the model should each be RAW or JPEG Fine, which is around 4+ MB in size minimum. If you plan to send 50 KB files, then fully disclose to your model that you intent to screw her by sending her useless images. Please, feel free to join in. Make suggestions. Let's invent a better mousetrap together so that never again a model gets stiffed after commuting 4 hours to a shoot, posing for 3 hours, then commuting back home for 5 hours due to traffic, with her only compensation for 12 hours being "I'll send you a few images." Never again will I will be told I don't know what TFCD means because we, as front-line photographers and models, will codify that here and now. Personally, I'm looking for TF ALL-NPPI. I "roll my own" and make my own art. I don't need a photographer to make my art for me. If you contact me with an offer other than TF ALL-NPPI, I'm not interested. I know just by looking at the label what the offer is and whether or not I am interested. And both can refer back to the original email offer and verify/refute any claims as to what was offered. So here is what a sample email from a photographer to a model would look like: "Hi. Saw you port. Would love to work with you. TF5-PPI-P. You interested?"
A scathing article on the "Internet Model" in Model Colloquy
I can only comment on how things work in the NYC area, I have no idea about your market or others. If you are building a book of fashion images to show designers, art directors or agencies, you need to use "agency standard" models - and again, I'm talking about the full look, not just the numbers. If you don't, anyone reviewing your book will just toss it aside - no matter how great the photography is, and no matter what designs the model is wearing. It is somewhat unfortunate, but it is the truth. The further you get from what they are used to seeing, the less likely they will take you (a photographer) seriously. As far as the cost of agency models goes for small designers or testing photographers, you can get many new faces for free if the agency likes your work. Also, there are many agency represented models, who aren't getting many bookings through the agency that are able to book side gigs - and they do. This is often the case for agency models who are doing fit modeling. Again, I have no idea how things work on your end, but the fit models I have known were all agency standard. Most legitimate, small designers here that are putting together a look book for a line will still use agency girls when shooting it, often the same models they used to fit the line. Anywho, none of that is really germain to what the crux of this thread is about (and the breakdown of communication that is occurring). You say you don't spend much time here on the forums, I believe you. If you do, you'll find post after post after post of young girls, who want to be models - and not just any kind of model, but an agency represented fashion model in a major market - and simply do not have what it takes to get the gig. Not even close. Yet anyone who tells them that is castigated like they are evil jerks who just want to piss in their cornflakes. Then you get a plethora of others who come and post the same "just go for it grrl, don't listen to the h8ers, you need to work hard for your dream!" bs. Hell, a girl just started a thread in here for her "friend" who wanted to have her legs surgically broken in hopes that she could grow taller! WTF!?! And even if she was taller, it probably wouldn't make a hairs bit of difference. Someone, at some point, has to be honest with them, and I was in my opening post. Yes, if I do a search in NYC for models, with the criteria I am looking for, I can find a number of girls who will fit the bill quite nicely. But if I just do a blanket radius search, it's astounding what you find. Hell, do a radius search for photographers - are you going to tell me that most of them are of a caliber that you would hire? I don't think so. Hell, even if they offered to shoot your work for free (which many of us would depending on the circumstances) you would probably turn them down. If that's true for photographers on this site, doesn't it make sense that it's also true for models? Do I have models from this site flake on me? Not anymore, as I've been on here for a while, and most of the models I would be interested in shooting are either friends of mine, or we have mutual friends in common. But if contacting a new model, I'm always leery. And, btw, it's not that agency models never flake - although that's rare - but if they do, you simply make one call to the agency and you'll have another one there quickly. I tried to cast here once for a commercial gig - I needed a model who looked like a model but still looked "girl next door" as well as a male for a national ad for a BBQ grill. The work paid very, very well for about 6 hours of work. It was a nightmare. Never again, unless I've already worked with/tested the model. Even for my fine art work, I'm leery as I put a lot of resources into a shoot.
A scathing article on the "Internet Model" in Model Colloquy
You are talking about a different world. My money and models money at this level may not be serious to you but it is to us. And what we do is serious we aren't playing here. We just aren't big corporations. Now you may get your work from those corporations but don't look down your nose at what thousands like us contrubute to the economy while a lot of the kind of 'clients' in your world are giving all the money to Chinese sweatshops masquerading as fashion. Those that don't have a tradition and a reputation for quality and do a lot in house from design to manufacture for which they need models throughout. But even the small designers money money is good to the models and they graft for us. Know why? because we may give them three days work a week for six months. So don't talk to me about photographers employing models because how many photographers here have models down as a regular wage on their expenses. Do you even know what a technical is? I'll give you a clue she doesn't go down under the advertising budget. And as for the art nude that is the same; the artists groups and art education institutions pay them paye wages; as do the bigger design houses. The work is that regular. Once again all I can say is there is the rag trade and there is advertising business and big fashion mags etc. You big shots may get that advertising and editorial work; the models here will get a taste of it now and again; but it doesn't even keep the Agency girls in full time employment. So most do a bit of everything. Bloody good jacks of all trades many of them; or specialise in particular niches. But since when are 'Dove' fashion designers anyway? They are soap mate. Not in the rag trade. And I am the one talking gobblygook. Right. Not. You don't know the rag trade that is for sure. Looks to me good a shooter as you are; I pay models Agent provocateur pays models; from tehcnicals right up to campaign. Pretty sure everyone else I know in the rag trade does too; and they don't turn their nose up at models who have their portfolios on the internet. You don't. Ok. Models it is up to you who you take note of but ask yourself why Tony is here if all internet models are like the article. Photographers employ models sometimes. But not if they can persuade you they don't need to. And fair enough; some of you will do well by shooting with Tony for free and it may make those who actually employ models take notice of you. But then he isn't going to pay you as far as I can see so whose advice is best if you are actually at the stage where you can begin to make a living? The models who do; or Tony? He'd like to convince you that you can't. Why he is also trying to convine me you are not reliable and I should be booking Agency models I have no idea. It isn't going to happen but I need relaible models just as much as the big cleints. More; They don't starve if their models don't show. Right now I really am off. Some people can't see further than their own lens.
A scathing article on the "Internet Model" in Model Colloquy
I see what Eliza means by word twisters. I turn over thousands of pounds not dollars annulally. Profit is small. But all my models are on model mayhem; and I pay them because they are professionals. My one expense at an agency model she looked like a prepubescent sack of shit in my clothes. Models don't get work from photographers everyone knows that. They don't even pay when the gig is through an ad agency. If they are given control of the model budget they keep it themselves and try it on with naive young models who they persuade to do it for free; or more likely the models are booked sperately by the agency or chosen by the designers. BUT most of the work doesn't involve photography at the kind of level you are talking about. There are TWO industries here and you can't seem to differentiate between them. One is the fashion industry; and the other is the advertising industry. I am part of the fashion industry like many other small designers can't get involved in the latter but that doesn't stop us en masse contributing millions to help sorting the balance of payments deficit. So what we do is for 12 weeks we are on a collection and for the whole time just about we use a fitting model. They mostly work with other girls who match them so they can swap about; because they are like rocking horse shit because we often use the same ones that the big houses do. They are well paid; but reasonable for what they do. So then comes the initial photos when they are done. You get in the photographer next door or diy. Then you give the clothes an outing. To an event. Your model does that to because she is the one it has been made on. Then it gets in the papers. Best one for me was Eliza being photographed at London fashion week because there are hundreds of us can't get in the new designer bit so we'll bushwhack it. I also use models at the races to model the stuff which is how Eliza got involved with all the other designers doing the same thing; and the pictures get everywhere from mainstream tv to local newpapers to Horse and Hound to the Racing Post to Marie Claire. Then we get other photographers interested in doing some stuff for editorial features; whether it be local magazines or photographers here having a go. So again it is free advertising. Then at this stage you go back to fit and iron out any problems the fit model due to her expereince has identified. Then you go to trade fairs at home abroad. Again you take your models. Then you do fashion shows and a boutique buys three pieces; another two. Then you take them to big retail events and more fashion shows with other small designers. The only photographers are local press. By this time over six months you may have recouperated costs and then start again. By the time you are ready for the next collection you may have made £3-5k for yourself out of the turnover; but employed a lot of people in that process including models who have worked their arse off for you. Now there are thousands of us sharing these models sometimes with big fashion houses and the boutiques and the wholesale fashion concerns it is thanks to their dedication and not dropping us like hot shit when they get a bigger designer wanting them that we can do this at all. There that is the real fashion world. Agency models and Dove adverts has nothing to do with it apart from the odd bit of work that the models get. They still make a living though thanks to the thousands of little outfits like me. And when photographers want them for nothing you don't get why they say no do you? They know they aren't going to get into Vogue this is their living not pie in the sky. I have never be let down by a Model Mayhem model and they have all been 100% professional; on time; no issues with escorts. That goes for the art nude girls and burlesque girls too. Perhaps you are just picking the chancers because you don't want to pay I don't know. Or perhaps they just don't let designers down. But I am pretty sure if the ones I have used are anything to go by they've never flaked on anyone. Now I read somehwre that Eliza offered you I think it was to see her paychecks. She isn't going top do that publicly but she'll do it privately. So that will tell you what you are saying about models under 5ft 7ins not being able to earn a living out of fashion is rubbish. Her flatmate's partner was only 5ft 3 ins and did similar for the day to day income though she is also an actress. And loads more of her friends too. Maybe the shoot work for editorial is at a low level and even parts stand in stuff. But they aren't in the advertising business they are in the rag trade. And when I started going out with her and the recsssion made things tight for me it was her income that kept us being able to live in London and most of it was fashion generated.
Models misbehavin' in General Industry
I have had: Models start fights with other models. Other models escorts start fights with models . Models start fights with other escorts. Escorts start fights with other escorts. Models stealing anything from food to hair dryers and flat irons. Models doing pretty much every drug on the list in the dressing room or bathroom. Models boyfriend leaves because of jealously or some bullshit and she run out of the studio half dressed chasing him bags in tow down the street. Models stealing entire sets of images back in the film days. I had a model book my studio for rental, turned out the photographer was a young buck and handsome in her eyes. I went to another area of the studio for a bit and when I returned she was performing oral on him. A model brought an escort that stole my ATV a few weeks later. Wasn't hard to catch that one since he drooled over it the entire shoot. Sex in the dressing room with other female models is pretty common. I was shooting a model with rather long labia, in the middle of the shoot she stretched one out and began to twirl it in circles making a siren sound. Not sure that falls under misconduct but it sure was funny And the best for last... I once had an interview with a model for adult content that another model friend arranged, the potential model showed up after working hours. I received a phone call and excused myself, after a 3 minute conversation I returned to a nude girl on my couch with my feather duster up her ass and her breasts bound with gaffers tape. A bit shocked at first I immediately bargained with her to video tape her insanity for the pocket change of $60. Then she wanted me to see all her labia piercings up close and personal like, it was like flesh colored Swiss cheese. After 15 minutes or so of feather duster entertainment and other weird events she proceeds to use drywall screws to attach her labia to a 2X4. At this point I started too interrogate her a bit. I had never heard such stories in my life, this chick was really a mess!! I couldn't get her out of the studio fast enough.. I immediately called a friend to show the video, after 3 hours I had about 30 people in the studio watching in disbelief.. Comments were, Oh my god, gross, shes sick.. REWIND IT!! Turns out the model who set me up with her did it as a joke.. And I'm not ashamed to admit I have had my share of sexual encounters over 20 years although I will admit as I age they become more rare..
Models misbehavin' in General Industry
Hmm, models who take frequent ladies room breaks and come out sniffing with some kind of white powder mustache. models who call the bf on a break, and then proceed to try to convince him not to break up with them over the phone while the crew stands around. models who start groping other models during a shoot, where one is bi, and one is not. models who hint, then flirt, then finally come right out and make a bold faced pass, and when you still turn them down, get upset and pout. models who go tell mutual friends stories, after a shoot, forgetting there was a video camera on in the corner during the whole shoot, and then get mad when you show said mutual friends the video of the shoot. models who tell lawyers stories, or better yet, have a friend call who pretends he's a lawyer. and again, that tape comes in handy models who accidentally pack up clothing that doesn't belong to them. models who bring escorts who suddenly have an emergency one third of the way into a shoot. models who forget something in their car, and just run out there quick wearing next to nothing, cause "nobody will see." models who think it's too much trouble to duck behind something to change on a location shoot, cause it's too much trouble. models who have a bottle of vodka in their bag, and go from acting weird to full on psycho during a shoot. models who show up for a nude shoot, and forget it's that time of the month, and they forgot to bring any spare tampons (yeah, gross) Bi Polar models, OMG Bi Polar Models. models who bring their clingy dog to a shoot. lastly, models who show up with a brand new, huge, all scabbed over, I just got it tattoo. and those are just the ones who come to mind.
A scathing article on the "Internet Model" in Model Colloquy
Those curious about modeling and height can check out: This site by a former MM member is a excellent source of information. Fashion agencies often use their runway models for print. I think we can mostly agree that taller models are easier to see on a runway and it might be ridiculous to have a 5'2" model with a model 5'10" Another problem is designers only make a few sample pieces and having to make things for short models as well as tall ones wouldn't work. There are many small models who may be beautiful and have lean proportional figures but what happens if ad or project has them working with tall men or tall women. An agency only has so many slots for models as well. However one of the biggest reasons is tall beautiful models tend to stand out so to say. Anyone who's seen Iman or the current crop of agency faces knows what I mean. You may be stunning at 5'2" but people just notice taller people in general and studies show that taller people get better jobs and make more money. … index.html People tend to associate success, intelligence and even attractiveness with height. Height matters, age, skin color, weight and overall figure all matter as a model. This bullshi^ about being photographed tall is just that, bullshi7. If height wasn't a issue then fashion and commercial agencies would just accept any and all models they felt were attractive enough to book work but they measure their models. Print modeling is very calculated. They want female models who aren't too small vs. their male models. They want young, thin and usually White women and girls. You can yap about how height, age, weight or anything doesn't matter on MM all you want but go pick up almost any Lifestyle, fashion magazine, catalog, cosmetic and or beauty ad who is using models not stars and check them out. Being short as a model is not a plus. Being unsigned is not a plus. Being a older model is not a plus. However don't debate that with me. Debate it with real world agencies who book work for their clients.
Question regarding payment of nude pics.. in General Industry
This is a real problem, and models are the ones usually getting the short end. There isn't one good answer, except KNOW who you are dealing with. If you take borderline or sketchy jobs, or gigs, then you will have to use higher degrees of caution. But it comes down to the shooting time, the release, and the payment. Some photographers will shoot, and don't want a release and will skip out on payment. They have the photos, and it's hard for the model to do anything about it. This has happened to a lot of models I know. Some of the stories are almost worth making a movie about. Photographers have left models stranded in airports, in fields, in other states, etc. Same with the models. I screen out 10 or 15 models for each 1 that I invite to show up, and out of those maybe 1 in 5 actually does. My "problem" rate is very, very low. But I really don't care if I shoot with every model. I want to shoot with models who are *NOT* problems. That is most important to me. On the other hand, someone I worked with did pretty much anything she could to get the models to show up, and she had problem after problem. We never could reconcile our differences on this. She wanted to shoot any model regardless. I didn't like the risk. It's harder for the models, who are usually the ones seeking payment. In order to get paid, they need to take jobs, and often the paid jobs are because the photographers can't get TF* or trade. The more money being offered, the more it seems to be so. (This is in lieu of the photos being for a specific release like a website, etc). The amounts vary by area, but are usually 2-3x minimum wage or current going minimums (in some areas minimums are a little higher). Just for round numbers, if local jobs are offering $10/hour for entry/unskilled/register/clerk etc positions, then $30/hour is usually more than enough above to get models. If you have to go to $75 or $100, then you need to be more cautious as to why that is being paid. From the models point of view, the $75 job is more desirable than the $30, but the "risk" may not be worth it. Local economics (and KNOWING your local economics) is important in this. There have been threads about "red flags" on several systems lately, and people need to be more aware of the red flags, and use the same decision making skills they use when meeting people in general. There is nothing special or different about the model/photographer, except that it can be more dangerous for EITHER the model or photographer (yeah, I have model horror stories, so do others). But as a photographer, I can be much more choosy in picking models, than the models can be in picking the photographers. The one with the money usually has more control. In general, the photographers have the money (either theirs, or a clients) and the models are applying for jobs to get that money. That kind of shifts the "risks" in the direction of the models. Money is a "hook" to bring people in. Sometimes, it's not all about the photos, and sometimes the money really isn't there. I don't think it's getting better, either. I think it's getting worse. Scott
A scathing article on the "Internet Model" in Model Colloquy
Eliza, I've been following this thread and there is only one fashion model in it. She has tears but forget that for a moment. That article is a editorial piece about some web models but please for the love of all that's holy, stop with this stuff about short fashion models. The majority of catalog, jewelry, cosmetic or beauty work, and fashion is booked via agencies and goes to models 5'8" or taller. Forget Vogue or V or Elle because they pay next to nothing. The bread and butter work for most models is catalog and again that work is going to agency signed models most of whom are under 21 and over 5'7". There are precious few petite models who work consistently but they are very few in number. There are two very separate worlds. The world of the real working fashion and commercial model and they are largely NOT on MM and the web based model who represents herself. You may be able to point out a few members who buck the trend and work but they are the exception and not the rule. A little reality the average model makes around $20.00 a hour. This is adjusted based on down time and is a national average in the US according to the DOL. Don't believe me? Look up it up. The average fashion models career lasts a year if she's lucky. A busy model doing catalog and fashion not the average mind you makes around $100,000 a year. I am not speaking of the current crop of super models but the agency faces at Elite, Ford, DNA and other agencies. I don't know many who work consistently who are not at least 5'7" and most range from 5'8" to 5'11". However forget what, I have to say. Go to: If I'm looking to show off my new designs do, I hire a 5'2" model from MM or will I go there? no 5'3" models. There is no niche for those models. The truth is that real world clients hire real working models who fit industry standards. There may be some petite working models but they are rare. Most of all clients with decent budgets should always go to agencies. Booking web based models is a recipe for failure. Not pointing any fingers.
A scathing article on the "Internet Model" in Model Colloquy
Hi, Eliza. I don't think the writer had you in mind when when he/she wrote it. Just as those who have called photographers on MM rapists and pedophiles. I'm not either so, I'm never offended. The piece was a general over view of many of the web based models and it was on point. Their isn't a week that goes by without one of us whinny babies isn't complaining about a flake or unprofessional model. Are all the models here unprofessional flakes? Of course not. That article was about the models who join sites yet still have self taken shots in mirrors months later. It was about the friend collecting, waste of time, short models with fake tans who aspire to be fashion models when they stand 5'2". You can be short and be a real model. There are plenty here but they are not working fashion models. That article was about the new Facebook Supermodel who has thousands of fans, hundreds of likes for her photos and who's next stop is WWD or Bazaar magazine. She's on her way baby! The ideal is NOT take what people say in these kinds of pieces personally. He didn't say, Eliza was a dreamer. He didn't say you would never work. He didn't say every model on MM or the web was wasting her time. As for investing. Again you've made it personal. Modeling schools still rake in millions from wannabe models. Agencies send models to do paid shoots that parents or they pay for. Companies like Pro-Scouts make thousands in every city they travel too. This when 90% of those that attend these 'events' will never do any fashion or commercial work or be signed by anyone. That article wasn't for you. It wasn't for any of the wonderful working models on MM. In fact the writer didn't mention MM or OMP or iStudio. It was a opinion piece about the majority of web based models. Please don't tell me about a model you know from the Royal Academy of short models who's appeared in Elle. Its not about a few exceptions. Its not about you nor any other working model.
A scathing article on the "Internet Model" in Model Colloquy
Well who has their knickers in a twist now? We are never going to agree on this. You have issues with internet models because of sour grapes and have said as much. That is YOUR fault entirely. References don't work my arse. People lie? As if a designer is going to put their reputation on the line by lying for a model. You get a glowing reference for a good job. You don't see that most modelling work is done by independent models or agency models who get their work on the net because they would be twiddling thumbs waiting for Agency work only. We are the cake; the top agency models are the icing. The article didn't say the cake has some mouldy bits it said cake is crap; look what it is made of; and gave us a drivel list of stereotypical behaviour based on the wannabe; NOT the model. That's okay. You get on with your work I have some ice core samples to centrifuge. Because YOU are not the only one with important work on. If you can't afford the time don't pick the battles. And how accurate is it around here to think of models as dumb? Some well educated people round here. So that stereotype doesn't have any credence either. And if that had been the thrust of an article posted here I'd have gone with that too rather than accept any 'exemptions' to the 'rule' or that it didn't mean some of us. And if a couple of 'non models' kept harping on about a model they had used who was thick I'd respond with the same vigour. We aren't asking you to cry for us; we are just telling you what we do as you don't seem to have much clue apart from what your own expereince is and that is limited; and as you say based on a few bad uns and a few good uns. Not the variety and genres of the models I have come across daily in London for three years and rarely met an unprofessional one. Yes I have seen the ports of the wannabes here. But are they really models? No. So who are internet models if they arent actually the models on the internet? QUOTE: "Obituary: The Internet Model" not "Obituary: the Wannabe model" If it then had been a facebook page with the description rather than the MM page of a model that doesn't look like she has a mobile phone pic then that may be different. But it's no big deal and I don't hold grudges so see ya later
A scathing article on the "Internet Model" in Model Colloquy
You seem to put a lot of stock in my opinion (thanks by the way) so here it is warts and all: First of all, what's "on my radar" is what I see and know personally. And while you clearly must know every working model in the industry, I don't. I do however happen to know a few really amazing girls, none of whom are agency represented who make a good enough living to support themselves in various nice markets ranging from pretty standard art modeling to alternative modeling.Additionally, if you read my original post on this topic in full rather than getting all lathered up about the fact that I actually liked the piece you would have noticed that I said FROM THE BEGINNING that you don't need to be 5'10 and rail thin to model but you do need it if you want to be signed with a fashion agency. Clearly the inference there was lost so I'll spell it out: If you're 5'2 some place like Ford isn't going to touch you, it doesn't mean you can't model at all but it does mean that I get pissed off when those girls contact me about doing a high fashion shoot with no budget because I can't pull clothes for them because as I'm sure you're well aware fashion fit models are taller etc.. Did you actually read the article? Or were you just outraged by the insinuations it made? The article clearly states the following: "How do you spot the internet model, you ask? Their photos are always those that seek attention: cleavage, booty shorts, bad tans, kissy faces, and a plethora of mirror photos taken with a flashing light from her handheld, digital-camera in the corner. Their status updates are also fashioned in a way so as to let the world know what they are doing, even if it pointless, quotidian minutia: “Just did my nails.” If that isn't what YOU do or how you conduct YOURSELF professionally then you're clearly not who the author is talking about. With that I refer back to my clearly magical ability to listen to a song about women being whores ect. and not falling into the fetal position or starting a letter writing campaign or protest because I'm quite clear on what type of person I am. Oh and speaking of MM in particular while you've possibly been spared some of the questionable "portfolios" I've seen enough to be convinced that some of these girls fit that description to a tee AND there are some models who don't fit it at all...kind of like how all black people aren't thugs on welfare or all white people aren't racist and stuck up or all Asian people aren't concerned with academic achievement...all models who have online portfolios don't fit into the "internet model" description. Please don't sing your sad little song about being "unpresented" or "unappreciated" as a model, you won't get an ounce of sympathy from me. When you tell people you work as a model I'm sure that 99.9% of the time they know what you mean. Try saying to someone outside of the industry that you're a wardrobe stylist AND that you only pull from indie designers and just watch how fast the stupid questions start flying. Or better yet how many times has someone asked you to come and work for no money because of course you must have everything you ever shot still sitting in your closet so it can't be that much of a hassle... As someone who spends every second of their professional lives behind the scenes I know all about the unsung. My comment about the parade was no more uncalled for then your erroneous attack on my thoughts which I will once again point out mirrored your own in the sense that I stated from the very beginning that a model didn't need to be an agency girl to work and I mentioned knowing models who weren't. I realize that sometimes in a debate it's not always clear which side someone is on but it is possible for me to love the article and still understand and respect that there are independent models that don't fit that mold, the same way it's completely possible for me to be anti-war and still supportive of the troops. Perhaps that's too complex of an emotion for some but I can walk and chew gum too so I much be special. Defend your colleagues all you want but don't pretend that there aren't some girls (a lot of girls) that give modeling a bad name. Maybe you're oblivious to this fact because you've never come across them in your own life BUT I've booked models who showed up on set looking NOTHING like their photos (retouch is a dangerous thing especially when it's natural), I've had girls with nothing but mirror shots contact me and demand to be paid for shoots, I've had girls tell me that it was my job to help them get booked and I've had girls call me the day before a shoot and say "by the way my hair looks nothing like it looks in my pictures and I know you asked me before but I didn't want to tell you, I've also had girls show up on set a day early and then blame me for it when all of my communication clearly stated another date...should I go on? Because I have dozens of more stories from my dealings with "internet models". HOWEVER I've also had models who serve as the antithesis of this in that they're professional and I will once again reiterate that on both sides of it I'm only speaking from experience.
A scathing article on the "Internet Model" in Model Colloquy
That is not the issue. Those of us who work modelling in fitting or for boutiques and small designers or doing regional fashion stuff don't fit on your radar other than 'a few independent models'. The point I am making is that the Agency models are few; the supermodels are fewer. But they are visible. So the independent models only come up as the 'ones you know'. Yet I know because I have worked in that field across the board that it is in fact WE who make up the majority. There is not in fact much differentiation between most Agency models and the rest of us: Those girls cannot exist on one or two jobs a year provided for by the Agency. So they are out there grafting on the net too. No; the article didn't single out the girls with tasteless fb photros; it implied that ALL internet models are like that; which they are clearly not. And it specifically targets MM with its graphic. The truth is it is the elite who are unrepresentative. As unrepresentative of musicians as the elite rock star. But one doesn't see net articles saying all other musicians should give up because they are never going to be U2 or the Rolling Stones; and that just because they have 600 likes on their fb page doesn't make them a musician. Clearly that is flawed; and it is just the same with modelling. BUT it is just the kind of view that someone who works at the high end of the industry only may assume: it is kind of the Simon Cowell syndrome; 'you will never make it' as though that is what it is about for independent rock bands. Of course; anyone in the backroom -sound engineers, recording studio people, the fans of small bands, know it is the Cowell pehnomenon that is not representative of the industry. The small band pays for the recording studio, plugs away on their fb page, does the odd bit of session work (because the 'manufactured' star band often can't even play their instruments) and builds a following; makes a living. And once again; they are legion such bands. It is true that you do get the fb mobile phone models here. But likewise in music you can also see some dire bands that have only ever rehearsed in the bathroom! I don't want a ticker tape parade and I resent your accusation; uncalled for and snide. What I am doing is trying to defend my colleagues and explain to some of the narrow view here who think that article has any credence what modelling is about. It was an attack on all; not the wannabe bedroom model. We are internet models too. We work; doing the bulk of journeyman stuff that the elite don't. And that is before we go into modelling of other genres. This was an attack on the 'internet model' as exemplified clearly by MM. You may mean something distinct; though your only thought was the 'few independent models' you know personally. Well I know hundreds of independent models personally and if you open your eyes there are THOUSANDS on here who do a good job day in day out. I also know Agency girls; I also know they are here too; including the odd top campaign model. I am not getting 'bent out of shape'. I am not the one who has resorted to attack you personally. I am just saying your definition has excused a few personal independent ones you know; my point is that in fact they are the vast majority of professional models when combined with the Agency models here too and all get much of their work from their web ports. Don't get so bent out of shape I was just clarifying that not attacking you personally.
Season of the Flakes- needs a button in General Industry
Photographers not communicating with their local photographers -- their loss, in my book. I will observe that the energy to participate in all these proposed rating schemes is 100x the effort to check references. It amazes me that people are willing to punish models for allegedly flaking on them instead of applying "an ounce of prevention" to improve their chances. It also amazes me that people are willing to take the word of a stranger/photographer simply because he accuses a model, all without hearing the model's side of the story. You don't want to be responsible for the model's behavior. Fine. But understand that if a client hires you and if you fail to deliver because a model flaked on you, your client will hold you (and not your model) responsible. You may cry "it's not my fault", but your client will disagree with you. Earlier, you mentioned an agency canning a model who flaked, and somehow you interpreted that as the agency not taking responsibility for the model. Again, I disagree. The photographer who got the model through the agency will hold the agency responsible for sending him a model who flaked. The agency canned the model to protect itself & its reputation and to protect its customer, the photographer. That's the agency being professional, and the agency is taking responsibility for the model's behavior. I admit that it can be confusing when I use the word "you" -- it could mean "you" (Tony) or "you" (generic). There is a wide range of possible approaches to "flakes": ... Due diligence (like me), ... Take a chance and move on after a flake (like Tony), ... Demand calls, a deposit, a call on the day, a preshoot meeting, etc. (like some), ... Post a rant on a forum (like several), ... Demand a ratings system (like several), ... Demand the banning (and tar & feathering) of flaking models (like some), ... etc. My position has been & still is ... ... people who refuse to do due diligence before agreeing to work with models have no business complaining when they get burned. ... open-minded people should be unwilling to condemn and/or punish a model for allegedly flaking based on the word of a disgruntled stranger. ... rating systems are primarily intended to punish models, regardless of how it is dressed up. ... rating systems will take a significant effort to implement & administer, and that alone makes such a scheme impractical. ... Proponents of ratings systems often point out that other sites have ratings systems, but they fail to point out that these sites have revenue, lawyers on retainer, and with all that, many don't allow negative feedback. Ah. So you are social! I guess you just don't have any photographer friends. Ah, I see -- it's okay to let off steam about alleged flakes, but it is not okay to resist the proposed schemes that punish models without due process or recourse? It is not okay to counter impractical schemes that would make MM a less friendly & more expensive place? At least, on these forums, the posts aren't exactly anonymous -- we know a little about the OP and the other participants, including me, Tony, and everyone else. Most of the rating systems proposed are anonymous. If rating systems are anonymous, any disgruntled a-hole with a skosh Internet Bravado can ruin anyone else's reputation, whether it is deserved or not. I will also point out that you have brought up my good flake ratio three times, and I have not brought it up once. I'll stop posting when people stop trying to punish models with any form of a ratings system. Until then, I'll oppose such schemes. Be prepared.
What to call hobby models in General Industry
Model is a verb. Professionals if they are good at it get work. 80% of that work will not be paid for by photographers. The people who pay are those generally who can see what the verb means. It doesn't mean 'pretty girl'. It means the worth of the model to actually carry out the verb. If she is good she will get paid if she markets herself to those who actually require models. Photographers don't always need models; they may just want subjects. The hobby model probably won't understand this. If she begins to and can model she will get paid work; though not necessarily from photographers. I would say to see it as pros v hobbyists is too simple a delineation. There are wannabes. They may genuinely have a desitre to or commitment to wanting to become a model. Some will know what that involves; some won't. Some may succeed. Most will not realise what it is. They think it's about pretty too. Some just want to be famous or are doing it for an ego thing. There are amateur models who do it for the Art. This group generally are among the best models because they tend to have a creative desire. Some will be artists in their own right; with their own creative concepts. Because they are often having to do something else as a day job however they won't always be available. Those that make the commitment and develop extraordinary portfolios will eventually turn pro. Then there are models who make money from glamour type images on the net; or in publications or a little of both. That groups has its own amateur to pro and reader's wives to high quality artistic poles too. I don't think 'hobbyists' describe any of these main groups or the different types within them very well. It also does not differentiate between the flake types and the committed. 'Hobbyist' sounds a little like they are playing at it. Amateur sounds better to me probably because it just simply denotes they are not professional ie not paid for, or making a living from, their skills - as yet. Those who model professionally make a living from it because they can. They have it as their only source of income. They are likely either to be Agency signed; or the journeyman model getting modelling work from the Fine Art/Art institution/Artist group field; the fashion, fitting and parts modelling fields; promotional work; or in film/theatre/acting singing dancing related fields. They may do vintage or burlesque or perhaps a little of that. They may have a character look or a speciliased wardrobe or style look eg 'alt' that they have developed enough to be in demand. Or they may be doing a bit of pro modelling and a bit of styling/MUA/photography for example.Then there are the semi professionals. Those getting to that stage of it being their main source of income. Or those that do it (like myself) as an extra source of income having moved from being a professional model into another field of work. We are able to charge for a day's work because some value our skills. Often this will be designers, boutiques, artists, educational institutions, PR/marketing companies, or even businesses contacting one directly via a reference. Sometimes and only sometimes it's photographers. What I notice is that some photographers around here are pretty contemptuous of models full stop. Particularly MM ones . Makes me wonder why they do it and why they are here in the forums generally moaning about flakes; lack of professionalism, and greed by those who are professional because they dare to ask for pay. And if they dare ask for pay for modelling nude why they are strippers. So to me the question depends entirely on the person using the label and what they want to infer by it.
Season of the Flakes- needs a button in General Industry
I promise -- since we are repeating ourselves, this will be my last response to this sub-thread. I got the "complicated" thing from your responses. Other sites often cost more than MM. Other sites have full time programmers on staff. Other sites have lawyers on retainer. Other sites have administrators who resolve disputes all the time. Other sites don't allow negative feedback. MM doesn't have any of those things. Where do you propose we get someone to program the site? Who is going to pay for it? That would be a problem. Your program would make that easier for someone to spread false information about a member. I've been known to send a reference request to prominent people from the traveling model's hometown; not all respond, but some do. I've been known to send reference requests to the photographers credited in her profile, too. I can see how prolific she is from her profile, and without a reference, I might be inclined to take a chance. Traveling models need to be successful, or they wind up paying for their trip from their own pocket -- that alone makes me inclined to take a chance with a model who travels often. Or, I'm busy enough to wait until there is feedback on the traveling model -- catching her sometimes during a subsequent trip. That's on them, but I believe that every model who has ever worked with me would be a good reference for me. I am well known in this local community -- in fact, I'm hosting our 7th Annual Artists & Models Get Together this weekend; people in this community send models my way. My MM portfolio has pictures from several different models, and there is variety in my portfolio; I believe that many models want to pose for images in that style. My web site has been around for around 18 years and is popular. In short, I don't have problems finding models, and the few that I approach tend not to turn me down. To be fair, there were plenty of experienced models willing to take a chance on me when I was getting started. I do do the occasional TF* session with a newbie model (maybe 10% of my sessions are with newbies) -- that's how I pay back the karma from the generosity of those models who took a chance on me. I generally don't plan anything overly ambitious for any new-to-me model. To date, no TF* model has ever flaked on me. I don't see that. Look, I'm willing & happy to pay models because my web site brings in enough revenue to cover all my photographic & Internet expenses. I prefer to work with experienced models. Other photographers are more interested in TF*, in order to keep their expenses down. Those are some of the photographers who share references with me. To each his own. We are only allowed to voice "positive" criticisms? Yet, the whole idea behind the "ratings button" seems to be to provide an easy way for a photographer to post a "negative" or revenge criticism. Those who think your idea won't work are supposed to be silent? That's what I find childish. To reiterate, I oppose any kind of rating scheme because... ... It is prone to abuse, ... It is guilty by accusation from strangers, ... These schemes often have no process to resolve disputes, ... These schemes would require more effort to implement & administer, ... These schemes make MM a less friendly place & will chase people away. ... It is negative in nature. Go ahead & come up with suggestions that may work. In my opinion, this specific suggestion would probably not work. I have made a proactive suggestion that I believe works well for me. Choose.
What makes a MUA or hair stylist want to shoot TF? in Hair, Makeup & Styling
The MUA's and MUAH's I have worked with on a TF basis tell me that they prefer that the photographer contact them with an overview of the plan for the shoot, along with a link to the model's page. There may be others who prefer to work with the model, then let the model find a photographer. I don't know. As with anyone else who does TF, the MUA reserves the right to decide which models/shoots/concepts/dates he/she will work TF. Since I can't guarantee that I can provide an MUA, I don't mention this in my profile - or in my initial contact with a model, unless an MUA has already expressed an interest in working with the model. These MUA's first identify a photographer or photographers they would like to work with. Then the photographer proposes shoots to them (at least the model and genre or concept), and the MUA decides. While I have managed to find an MUA who was available on a specific date, it's more likely to work if we schedule the shoot around the MUA's schedule to begin with. I have never contacted an MUA with a request that she work a specific shoot without having established in advance that the MUA is interested in working with me. In my experience the process usually works one of two ways. 1) I contact the model to determine whether she is interested in a shoot. If so, and if I think an MUA will be interested, I contact an MUA. 2) I discuss the model and genre or concept with an MUA before contacting the model. There have been exceptions. One MUA contacted me to express an interest in working a shoot with a model in my portfolio. I've tried three times to get them together, but it hasn't worked out yet. (The MUA lives four hours from St. Louis in one direction, and the model lives three hours from St. Louis in the opposite direction. When one was going to be in St. Louis, the other couldn't be.) One MUA asked me to shoot a model with whom she has worked in several fashion shows. Most MUA's are very specific in the types of shoots in which they are interested in doing TF - only fashion shoots with models who are 5'8" or taller who have "the look" for fashion, for example. Some decide on a case-by-case basis. Some MUA's have contacted me first to express an interest in doing TF shoots. In other cases, I have contacted the MUA first. The busier the MUA, the more difficult it is to schedule a shoot. For example, I had scheduled a shoot with a model and MUA for late March. The shoot was booked with the model and MUA in early February. The model was invited to interview with an agency in Chicago on the day of the shoot and postponed with 2-3 days' notice. The MUA suggested we try to reschedule for a Monday in June. At the other extreme, I have managed to schedule a shoot with a model and MUA with about ten days' notice. Lately I have a "secret weapon" - an MUA who is in a position where she works with many other MUA's, who has offered to help me find an MUA for a specific date/shoot (with a least a week's notice). I can't say why this MUA is in this position without making it very easy for anyone to figure out who she is. Obviously I don't want to go to this MUA too often - so in most cases I try to find another MUA first.
Escorts and Issues from Photographers in General Industry
What ever you want to call it, a model that wants to bring an escort by her judgement is being safe.. but to the photographer the escort is an unknown and could prove a threat... Just as the photographer COULD rape the poor lass... the escort COULD assault/mug the photographer. So you are asking the photographer to assume all the risk because the model is walking into an "unknown" situation. So the photographer is "wise" for not wanting to shoot with her, by your definition. And you assume the escort is to keep the model safe? you are saying that the model "wisely" passes but yet, when a photographer "wisely" passes to work with a model that requires an escort. he is in the wrong. I am not putting words into your mouth, but you seem to assume escorts keep a model safe.. what happens when a model walks into a true psychopath's domain? True references cannot be faked... Are you telling me that I have created 20 model accounts keep track of every single one of them just so I can give myself references? Also, References and Due Diligence is more then messaging a model to ask of their experience with me... I give them my phone number, my address (if shooting in my home), etc.. all of which could be verifiable. But a serious question... IF I did "get out of line" what is the escort going to do to keep her safe. I can post from many escort threads of experiences models have had that were STILL groped and STILL had inappropriate experiences with the escort there... the escort didn't keep her safe.. but possibly checking the photographer out would have. If the model feels she needs and escort.. she shouldn't shoot with the photographer at all... By the same thought process... the model should be shooting with verifiable photographers. If I do not allow escorts its for MY safety. As stated... I do not have the same contact information I give to the model on her escort... But what about MY safety? You still haven't addressed that... The models escort isn't safe to ME... you assume that because it's a 5'4" model that she is harmless and she isn't going to bring someone to a shoot that would do me harm. I prefer working with big girls that know how to put big girl panties on. There is nothing an escort can do that a model cannot do on her own. Inappropriate behavior can and HAS happened even though an escort was there... what did the model do? She walked out... She really needed her escort help her move her legs to do that.
Why am I not getting booked...every week? in General Feedback
Many of the suggestions here are spot on. Yes, you have a good look. Your portfolio does not represent you well. Just as models often judge a photographer by the quality of his models, photographers (often subconsciously, I suspect) judge a model by the quality of the images in her port. In other words, the question (whether consciously defined or not) is not, "Do I want this model in my portfolio?" It's "Do I want images like these in my portfolio?" I try to look past the quality of images and look at the model's look - and the quality of her poses and expressions. But I still consider the overall quality of the images as well. Yes, you have several good images. You also have several that are not sharp, not well lit, not retouched well, and look like shapshots. In some cases you have too many images from the same shoot. This is often taken as compensating for a lack of experience. The general rule is that a model should have only one photo from each makeup/hair/wardrobe combination. The exception is if there are two shots that are very different - a headshot and a full-length pose, for example. Several models have told me that they like to see multiple images from the same shoot in a photographer's portfolio, just to see that the photographer can produce more than one good image per shoot (while they adhere to the premise that a model should have only one). Still, for the most part I have only one image from each set, even if I have to agonize over which one(s) not to use. It's also true that your port lacks focus. What type of model are you? What do you do best? You might want to consider having two ports - one for nude, glamour, implieds, swimwear and lingerie - and another for fashion, editorial, lifestyle, etc. It's true that swimwear and lingerie can also be fashion - but the fashion look is very different, even for these types of garments. And yes, LA is a very competitive market. I would take Ken Marcus' comments very seriously. He is one of a handful of current photographers whose work I admire most, and many consider him to be the best ever at his genre. Yes, there are some models (many of whom are traveling models, especially traveling nude models) who make a living strictly from Model Mayhem. For most, though, MM probably isn't enough to generate a substantial income. The full-time models I know, and others who generate a substantial part of their income from modeling, have told me that MM is not the best place to launch a modeling career. The more success they have outside of MM, the more income they generate from MM - and for most of them, 10-15% of their modeling income comes from MM. At least half a dozen model friends have told he that they found this book helpful, and one said that, if had been available when she first started modeling, it would have saved her five years in getting her career launched.
* GSE Group Shoot Events June 9, Studio City, CA * in Events
Follow us on all of our networks Official Website | Facebook Page | Twitter Page |Meetup Page Video footage of our recent event: Summer Bikini Vixens ~ 20+ glamour models Photographers bring a bikini to your favorite model if you want. Perfect Weather. Theme: Summer Vixens (Bikini & Nude Models) When: Saturday June 9, 2012 from 11:00am to 6pm (We can stay longer if needed) Where: Studio City, CA # of Models: 20+ (Models will be posted accordingly booked) Food: Food & drinks will be provided Meet & Greet: 11am to 11:30am Group Shoot: 11:30am to 2:30pm Mini Break: 2:30pm to 2:45pm Private 1:1's: 2:45pm to 7pm Photographer Cost: $50 Full Price (Birthday Promotion - Limited Time Only) Book your own 1:1's with the model directly ~ (Pre-booking is strongly encouraged) Model Release agreements will be provided No Boyfriend/Assistants (unless they pay the $75 entry fee) Refund Policy: No refunds. If you can't attend, we will credit your payment to the next event. Button To Register [img][/img] 2:1 Model to Photographer Ratio Model/Photographer Rotation to assure equal time You may bring 2 strobes or your Speedlights for the indoor shoots Outside the residency, natural light, etc Model Info: Free admission Must participate in group shoot in order to sell 1:1's Must pose swimwear or lingerie in group shoot You may sell model releases for no more than $10, $20 for nudes Set your rates for 1:1 shoots & release agreements with the photographer Model Release agreements will be provided No escorts (unless they pay the photographer fee) Models or Photographers with any questions, please email me @ Thread Link to our recent events: (April 28th, 2012) (March 10, 2012) (February 11, 2012) [img][/img] STUDIO CITY LOCATION IMAGES [img][/img] [img][/img] [img][/img] [img][/img] [img][/img] [img][/img] [img][/img] [img][/img] [img][/img] [img][/img] MODELS (We will have a new out of state Feature Model we will be flying exclusively for this event) (MODEL LINEUP) Miss Jaz ~ Email me at for her rates. [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:45-6:15 pm 6) 6:30:7:00 pm Miss Shanty ~ Email me at for her rates. [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:45-6:15 pm 6) 6:30:7:00 pm Debby~ Email me at for her rates. [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:45-6:15 pm 6) 6:30:7:00 pm Mariah ~ Email me at for her rates. [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:45-6:15 pm 6) 6:30:7:00 pm Brianna Nicole [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:45-6:15 pm 6) 6:30:7:00 pm Mari ~ Email me at for her rates. [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:45-6:15 pm 6) 6:30:7:00 pm Krysten Rae ~ [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:45-6:15 pm 6) 6:30:7:00 pm Erica Moore [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:45-6:15 pm 6) 6:30:7:00 pm Vera Rosa ~ [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:45-6:15 pm 6) 6:30:7:00 pm Xena Kai [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:45-6:15 pm 6) 6:30:7:00 pm Miss Kamie ~ Email me at for her rates. [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:45-6:15 pm 6) 6:30:7:00 pm Miss Laurie ~ Email me at for her rates. [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:45-6:15 pm 6) 6:30:7:00 pm Miss Ashh~ Email me at for her rates. [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:45-6:15 pm 6) 6:30:7:00 pm Ela Pasion [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:45-6:15 pm 6) 6:30:7:00 pm Jesyka~Email me at for her rates. [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:45-6:15 pm 6) 6:30:7:00 pm Stella Rose ~ [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:45-6:15 pm 6) 6:30:7:00 pm Angie ~Email me at for her rates. [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:45-6:15 pm 6) 6:30:7:00 pm Starr~ Email me at for her rates. [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:45-6:15 pm 6) 6:30:7:00 pm Liz~ Email me at for her rates. [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:45-6:15 pm 6) 6:30:7:00 pm Miss Paddy~ Email me at for her rates. [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:45-6:15 pm 6) 6:30:7:00 pm Miss Roxie ~ [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:45-6:15 pm 6) 6:30:7:00 pm Miss Kourtney~ Email me at for her rates. [/b] [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:45-6:15 pm 6) 6:30:7:00 pm Amanda Shaw [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:45-6:15 pm 6) 6:30:7:00 pm Naomi Herold [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:45-6:15 pm 6) 6:30:7:00 pm Angel~ Email me at for her rates. [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:45-6:15 pm 6) 6:30:7:00 pm Helen~ Email me at for her rates. [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:45-6:15 pm 6) 6:30:7:00 pm Miss Alex ~ Email me at for her rates. [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:45-6:15 pm 6) 6:30:7:00 pm Jennifer Barberena [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:45-6:15 pm 6) 6:30:7:00 pm Miss Lane ~ Email me at for her rates. [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:45-6:15 pm 6) 6:30:7:00 pm MORE MODELS WILL BE ADDED SHORTLY
GSE Group Shoot Events June 9, Southern, CA in Events
Follow us on all of our networks Official Website | Facebook Page | Twitter Page |Meetup Page Video footage of our recent event: Summer Vixens ~ 20+ Bikini & Nude Models Photographers bring a bikini to your favorite model if you want. Perfect Weather. Theme: Summer Vixens (Bikini & Nude Models) When: Saturday June 9, 2012 from 11:00am to 6pm (We can stay longer if needed) Where: Studio City, CA # of Models: 20+ (Models will be posted accordingly booked) Food: Food & drinks will be provided Meet & Greet: 11am to 11:30am Group Shoot: 11:30am to 2:30pm Mini Break: 2:30pm to 2:50pm Private 1:1's: 2:50pm to 6pm Photographer Cost: $75 (ONLY $35 Deposit) Book your own 1:1's with the model directly ~ (Pre-booking is strongly encouraged) Model Release agreements will be provided No Boyfriend/Assistants (unless they pay the $75 entry fee) Refund Policy: No refunds. If you can't attend, we will credit your payment to the next event. Button To Register [img][/img] 2:1 Model to Photographer Ratio Model/Photographer Rotation to assure equal time You may bring 2 strobes or your Speedlights for the indoor shoots Outside the residency, natural light, etc Model Info: Free admission Must participate in group shoot in order to sell 1:1's Must pose swimwear or lingerie in group shoot You may sell model releases for no more than $10, $20 for nudes Set your rates for 1:1 shoots & release agreements with the photographer Model Release agreements will be provided No escorts (unless they pay the photographer fee) Models or Photographers with any questions, please email me @ Thread Link to our recent event: (April 28th, 2012) (March 10, 2012) (February 11, 2012) [img][/img] STUDIO CITY LOCATION IMAGES [img][/img] [img][/img] [img][/img] [img][/img] [img][/img] [img][/img] [img][/img] [img][/img] [img][/img] [img][/img] MODELS (We will have a new out of state Feature Model we will be flying exclusively for this event) (MODEL LINEUP) Miss Jaz ~ Email me at for her rates. [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Mako ~ Email me at for her rates. [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Mariah ~ Email me at for her rates. [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Brianna Nicole [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Mari ~ Email me at for her rates. [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Miss Shanty ~ Email me at for her rates. [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Miss Laurie ~ Email me at for her rates. [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Tabitha Easley [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Angie ~ Email me at for her rates. [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Starr~ Email me at for her rates. [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Liz~ Email me at for her rates. [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Angel~ Email me at for her rates. [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Helen~ Email me at for her rates. [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Miss Alex ~ Email me at for her rates. [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Miss Roxie ~ [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Jennifer Barberena [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Miss Lane ~ Email me at for her rates. [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm ~Cori Collins~[/b] [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm MORE MODELS WILL BE ADDED SHORTLY
Scam? in General Industry
PRESS RELEASE FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: CONTACT: May 2 2012 Alex Tcharinova 264 La Cienega Blvd Suite 588 424-645-7336 The Ultimate Model Career Promotion Service Solution: New Model Talent Agency Report Reveals How Anyone Can Become famous The modeling agency industry just got its wake-up call: latest innovation: Online Career Modeling submission platform for algorithmic talent matching HYPERLINK: Beverly Hills CA has officially put the Modeling industry on notice: Starting a career in modeling is now faster, easier and more affordable than ever before. As Alex Tcharinova added, “Our Online Career Modeling submission platform for algorithmic talent matching” has gone the Modeling industry one better. Where most companies in this market fail in getting their models discovered our platform provides proper exposure and sees models developing highly successful results Alex Tcharinova with has identified not being discovered, unsafe work environments and substance and sexual abuse as most important to models when it comes to Job security : Because the employers are accountable to our company through our program, models will avoid not being discovered, unsafe work environments and substance and sexual abuse. The not being discovered and inefficient traditional modelling agencies are just part of an entire modeling revolution solution. The complete step-by-step solution is fully documented the site, For media inquiries, to arrange for an interview or an expert quote, please contact Alex Tcharinova at 424-645-7336 Alex Tcharinova has years of experience in promoting models. has been recognized by the modeling and fashion industries for its revolutionary streamlined achievements in modeling career launches. Alex Tcharinova is a member of and is headquartered in Beverly hills CA and overseas the Online Career Modeling submission platform for algorithmic talent matching. Received this e-mail. It was sent out massively... I can even see all the e-mails of the people it was sent to. I'm assuming it's a scam, but I thought I better check with all you wonderful wise one's on MM!
So, I went to the agency today and was SHOCKED... in Model Colloquy
What happens on model mayhem does not necessarily relate to what happens in the industry. Model mayhem has built its own standard. (on what they feel is acceptable, on model mayhem, you can be any size or height and have any look and its ok here and people will say, yes you can get work. In the real world. It does not work that way.) Unfortunately, its limit is on model mayhem The few models that are agency signed (fashion models), don't really get work through model mayhem. I have to agree to some degree about what kind of pictures models have in their port as being right for an modeling agency. Sometimes the pictures are too artistic or photoshop is done wrong or they just follow the model mayhem trend on shooting and editing (doing what the other guy is doing, where it all looks the same as the other guy).. Agency approve photographers are a dime a dozen these days.. There are a lot of models on model mayhem that get work and some make a living doing modeling through model mayhem. But that the thing, they just make a living. Just making ends meet or just making a living is not successful. It just means your a working model.. There has been some success stories on model mayhem. But with more and more making accounts (that have never modeled period and some that shouldn't) Yes, can believe 95 percent.
How to avoid boring shoots in Newbie Forum
Wow! Thank you everyone for the thoughtful replies, I love all of your suggestions. The person whose work I admire the most in the current generation of photographers is this guy. NothingIsRealButTheGirl Those are great articles, I've read them both and my experience agrees with the author. The reality is I do get excited about spots I see. There's this parking garage at my work i really really want to shoot at. And there's this drainage ditch+water runoff tunnel I really want to shoot at, and there's this bridge connecting two building that I really want to shoot at. The problem is finding a model that complements the location. I've brought my 10 year old daughter out to location scout with me, and she doesn't know anything about posing, so at the end of the day, I feel, "hmm, maybe that location isn't that great, the pics I took with my daughter there just aren't interesting. So the problem for me isn't finding cool locations, it's getting the model to do something interesting while she's there that will make a compelling picture. Now having said that I haven't been able to find an abandoned factory, LOL and I don't think I ever will here in so CA. But that's big on my list of cool locations. Neil Snape You couldn't be more right. Often times I see a cool pic here on mayhem and really what separates it from a pic I could take is that the model has amazing makeup and hair. As someone with little money shooting TFCD, I been reluctant to contact a MUA and ask him or her to work for free. I also agree about letting the model tune into their vibe. The models I've been using tend to just stand still and stare at me blankly. Maybe that's my fault as I'm typically saying "stand still ok, look at me, ok smile". sweet gamine Me too except for one difference, I'm always noticing places I think would be cool for a photography, except I don't envision clothing. I have no ability to imagine what a girl should be wearing. Actually in most of the visions in my head the girl isn't wearing anything. I suppose I need to learn about fashion? I'm pretty good at seeing the potential of a place and removing distracting objects. Drew Smith Photography I need a studio for some of my visions simply because they involve nudity or beds. I LOVE boudoir photography. Yes I'm also capable of making neutral backgrounds out in the field simply by choosing a long enough focal length and a good aperture. You're right about lighting, it can be amazing indoors and outdoors. I've got a large battery pack for my Alien Bees and I've done very large productions outside with multiple strobes and modifiers and I've also done stuff outside with just the sun and a reflector. I've also done plenty of studio stuff in my home studio, it's just that I feel a little off asking a complete stranger to come to my house for a shoot. I imagine most women know that's not a safe habit to get into. You're right about inspiration. I have a few visions, but no model for them, and then I've got tons of images on my computer I"d love to recreate, but most of them would require a skinny model who is ok getting naked in the woods. And here in so CA, you get naked in the woods you get arrested instantly. sdgillis true Ivanafox I love the idea of the storyline, that makes a lot of sense, and I think it would give my models some direction. I need to try that. devpics Always a good idea. My last model we did that. We had two themes we wanted to do, scarfs and taking a shower. The first one didn't work out, thank god we had two ideas because the shower scenes worked out really well. Apres Foto Amazing locations with semi-naked women in front of them. Boudoir, and low-key nude. B R U N E S C I I shoot mainly in my home studio also, but just models who are friends. I'm reluctant to ask a model I don't know to come to my house, I think there are some dangers there, but what do you think? Maybe I shouldn't hesitate to do it? I look at 500px and I'm inspired a lot by it. This is what inspires me, every single image of his amazes me. HOW DO I BECOME HIM? hartcons I do have images I want to recreate, and a few locations I want to try, but you're right, I think choosing more experienced models might help a lot. AJScalzitti I can't count the number of times I've uttered, "Man if only I could draw for you what I want". I WISH I COULD DRAW. sometimes I have visions in my sleep, and no way to record it. Drawing skill would help me tremendously. hartcons Very true. I've also done event photography, and 99% of my work is macro/landscape. You can check me out on I definitely agree with you. Joseph William Very true, and I do shoot a ton of non-model stuff. My 20 years of experience leading up to model mayhem was just nature/travel/macro photography, Phillip Ritchie OMG OMG I LOVE Richard Avedon, IN FACT I grew up with Nastassja Kinski and the serpent. I have a 5 foot long print of it in my bedroom. LOVE LOVE LOVE. Great work on that photograph BTW! Philipe For now I've been like you, I just grab a model and take her somewhere and we shoot, and as I said it eventually works out. Once she gets really comfortable, (about 60 minutes into the shoot), she starts loosening up and so do I. I just hate shooting this way, I'd love to agree on some concepts beforehand. Latent Images of Oregon I've done this a few times also. My last model's idea involved a stage and a piano, and I said, "yeah I have a 10'x10' studio, so that's not going to happen LOL, so instead we did scarves and a shower scene. Worked out ok in the end. BUt yes models often have ideas also, just sometimes they're a bit tough to recreate in a home studio. hartcons Very true Tristin Huntamer Thank you for the good advice And BTW you look fabulous. PhotographybyT OMG that happens to me too. In fact I was just watching alpha and omega, a cartoon about dogs, and there's this scene on a train, where one character is casting a shadow behind the other character and it's all in blue, and i thought OMG I need to do this, but how? The insides of old rundown train cars, another set I want to try. Supermodel Photographer So true
do yourself a favor and do NOT use your real name in Model Colloquy
OP: quick tip for models, if a photographer promises something, like say he won't show your nipple, you should get it in writing. model #1: who the FUCK are you to tell a model what to do? model #2: i will NOT be made ashamed of MY body! photographer #1: OP is apparently not aware that the nude plays an important role in art. personally, i believe in art. model #3: Quote: "personally, i believe in art." OMG - that is sooooo well put. photographer #2: your post is irrelevant. thanks to obama, the government can already see thru your clothes at the airport. photographer #3: you could maybe airbrush out the nipple using photoshop. OP: guys, it was just a suggestion. to clarify: some models might be glad if they confirm usage limitations in writing. plus some boss might might see it one day and make a big deal about it. model #1: you disgust me so much i can't stand it. i hate every single word that comes out of your mouth, especially the way you use the word "plus" like you're better than everyone else. i show my nipples at work whenever i feel like it and if my boss gets upset, i tell him "too fuckin' bad" and he always back down. SO FUCK YOU. model #4: i have a big dick and i show it to people all the time. model #5: i actually think it's a really good idea to get those promises in writing. OP: quote: "i actually think it's a really good idea to get those promises in writing." bless you - lol model #6: oh great. OP wants us to be more paranoid than we already are. thanks asshole. MODERATOR: actually, we get emails from models every day who have had this happen to them, so you just might want to be safe rather than sorry. model #1: quote: "actually, we get emails from models every day who have had this happen to them." really? are you sure? that doesn't sound right because i'm 21 and i've never heard of it. OP: quote: "actually, we get emails from models every day who have had this happen to them." thank you. thank you. thank you. photographer #5: so what? janet jackson showed her nipple on tv. she didn't have a release for it. OP: quote: "so what? janet jackson showed her nipple on tv. she didn't have a release for it." WTF? - this has NOTHING to do with janet jackson. she is irrelevant to the discussion photographer #6: why, because it doesn't matter what happens to a black woman? photographer #7: my friend in college had a third nipple so your theory doesn't really apply. model #7: Quote: "personally, i believe in art" oh wow. i couldn't agree more. OP: guys, i shoot nudes all the time. nothing to be ashamed of for the model or the photographer. all i'm saying is life will look very different as a 40 year adult. model #8: did you just have the nerve to say that models are not adults? i know a model who has a child with learning disabilities so fuck off you creepy pervert. obviously you hate women AND children with disabilities. photographer #8: does anyone know if you can wear nipple clamps for like a month? model #1: quote: "obviously you hate women AND children with disabilities." +1,000,000. OP: somebody please, just shoot me.
Unusual Agency contract? in General Industry
I am having issues with a contact I received by an 'agency'. The issues I personally am having (I must say I don't know the first things about agencies, so advice is appreciated) are bold. I am not even sure how the thing started, I guess the phone just rang, at some point last week, and it never occurred to me to ask the guy on the other end of the line how he got my phone number. He does not seem too familiar with mm either, he was unsure of 'all the pictures being viewable'... He's in Indianapolis, I am in Ca. He knows I am moving next month, and his last email to me read : I apologize for the lack of communication. However, I have been in contact with several photographers in the Dallas area. I am in the process of collecting names and phone numbers and should have the list to you in an excel format for you tomorrow.They are really good and if you would like i can send you some samples from their portfolios. *snip* I am also in the process of finalizing my website and reformating the images it should be fixed within two weeks. Please let me know if you have any questions. (The website is terrible. I saw a couple of actual Models on there, but the image quality is bad, and the sizing made everything distorted. I don't think that ladies who enjoy a certain reputation would go with a guy who sits in his 'home office' and has his friends make his website, and call himself an agency... And here's the contract:) Model's Employment Contract ________________________ (hereafter "Model") and First Impressions hereby enter into an agreement to the terms below: Model hereby engages First Impressions to direct, develop, and advance Model's career as a model. Model understand that he/she is able to work with other agencies as long as it doesn’t conflict with First Impressions obligations Model agrees to pay Agency 20 percent of all gross revenues that Model may receive in return for modeling services provided to any other party. Model agrees to refer all requests for Model's modeling services to Agency for negotiation, engagement, and collection of revenues. The term of this agreement shall be one year from the date that Model signs it, and shall renew automatically for one additional year unless the agreement is terminated. Either party may terminate this agreement with 30 days' written notice to the other party. First Impressions is hereby authorized to use Model's name, likeness, description, biographical information, and any other information available to direct, develop, and advance Model's career as a model during the time that this agreement is in force. I understand the entering in said contract does not guarantee that I will be selected by third parties to perform promotion modeling services. I understand that First Impression is responsible for the promotion & scheduling of auditions and other third party services. I understand that I am able to refuse any job given to me by First Impressions,without penalty, any jobs, engagements or obligations that might interfere with any obligations & events that I deem important for the growth and development of model. The laws of Indianashall govern this agreement and any disputes arising from either party's performance. In witness to their agreement to the terms of this contract, the parties affix their signatures below: Model’s Guardian , signature & date Agency, signature & date If you're interested in taking a look at the site, and then giving me your $0.02, pm me. I hope that guy didn't steal images from anyone, and if he did, there will be hell to pay (I know where he lives)!
Making A Compelling Shoot Offer to Models in Photography Talk
OK, this post is a tangent to this thread on the Model Colloquy. I think a lot of the unnecessary email/message pong can be minimized if a detailed shoot offer is presented to the Model or Stylist. I have a bolierplate ready that I can easily adjust and customize for the offer that I want to send along and it's very detailed. I thought it would be helpful to share the elements of it with you all with what I include in my shoot offers when I contact Models. So here are the things I include when making shoot offers to Models: Location Give the specific location of the shoot. If that's not possible (or it's a location you don't want a lot of people knowing about) if them a general area. Models need to know where they will be going not just for safety but for logistics as well if they are looking to make other plans for the day. List this first so that if they have to refer back to this message, they won't have to scroll down to find it. Availability What date and time of day are you looking to shoot? If flexible with the date/time then what is your general availability to shoot? Length of Shoot How long will the shoot be? Do they need to provide extra time for styling or business matters? FAQ Point to your FAQ if you have one. This can be a list on your profile, a PDF document or a page/post on your blog. Some Models feel more comfortable know exactly what they are dealing with when working with you and this gives you a chance to present your policies and procedures so that they can determine if this is a good working fit. This is where you want to address things like: - escort policy - your post-production process - re-scheduling in case of emergency Shoot Agreement/Releases Provide a link to all of the documents that you want them to sign so that the Model can have a chance to review them ahead of time if they choose to do so. No one likes surprises. Being transparent with your intent will help gain the trust of the Model which translates to better pictures. It's in your interest to do this. Compensation What are you offering in exchange for the talent's efforts? Images? Money? Barter? Some combination? Be clear with this. If the shoot is for trade give a general turn around time, if the Model can select image/how many they can select and how many images you deliver. My philosophy is to be the one that first puts out a rate. With this kind of detail, the Model can easily determine if it's worth while and may take you up on the offer partly out of appreciation that you don't waste their time going back and forth! Images to be Shot Be specific with the images you want shot. Describe what you want to shoot and then link to them or embed sample images into the message. Get clear on artist boundaries BEFORE the shoot. If there is a question about how explicit you can shoot ask and point to a sample image in the Model's portfolio for what you want to do. If no such image is in the Models port, point to sample image or have them link you an image that they would not shoot. Usage Give them an idea of how the images could be used. Again this goes to trust building and transparency. I would avoid absolutes (like "only", "never") unless its is something that you are certain about and can live with the restriction. Styling Do you expect the Model to do their own styling or will you have a Stylist for the shoot? If you want the Model to do the styling then provide example images of hair and make-up from their port. Better yet, find a YouTube video to show them how to do what you want. Also be clear on wardrobe. Provide specific instruction on what you need for them to bring to the shoot. If you don't know, take a minute and figure it out! Even nude Models need to bring something. Create a common list of items that you expect Model's to bring or ask them what do they normally bring to a shoot as a starting point. If you are providing wardrobe, say so. If you need the Model to bring something specific let them know. Don't make them bring a suitcase full of stuff and you don't use any of it. --------- Again this is what I do. If you have something that works for you, please feel free to share it so that we all benefit from a different perspective or approach.
Models who defy conventions in Model Colloquy
Any modelling niche has their particular criterias : height, look, measurements, age, etc. That said, some successful models tend to defy these criterias and manage to make their way in a niche that wasn't, at first, the one they would have belong too. They are exceptions, but still very inspirational. This thread is meant to acknowledge these models and celebrate the one that defies what we would have thought impossible! Here are some of these models (not restricted to fashion, but that's the field I know most so hence why I'm showing fashion models) : ::::: Anja Konstantinova (Gattina) 5'4'' ::::: Fashion model signed with these agencies : Priscilla (Sydney), Models 1 (London), Viva model management (Paris), Marilyn (NY), Bravo (Tokyo) Note that she even walked Sydney Fashion Week! [img][/img] Source : Vogue Japan May 2012 [img][/img] Source : Marie-Claire UK December 2011 ::::: Zipora Seven 5'6'' ::::: Fashion model signed with these agencies : Viva (London), Viva Model management (Paris), Bon Image corp. (Tokyo) [img][/img] DKNY Resort 2010 ::::: Kati Nescher started carreer at 26 years old!, now 27 ::::: Fashion model signed with these agencies : DNA (NY), Viva Model management (Paris), Why Not (Milan), Viva (London), AM Modelmanagement (Germany) She's also ranked #31 on the Top 50 Model! [img][/img] Louis Vuitton S/S 2012 [img][/img] Alexander McQueen S/S 2012 X. LC
Needing Help For Writing A Wiki Guide On Modeling in Model Colloquy
okay... first of all you need to make the distinction between freelance modelling and agendymodelling. if there's a page about agencymodelling, refer to that. any numbers you use should be able to backed up. for instance, when you say: "Although being born beautiful can be helpful, 8 out of 10 times it does not guarantee you will be a successful model." where did you get those "8 out of 10 times"? why not 7? or 9,5 ? is this really true or just a number you made up? if it's the last, better say something like: "although being born beautiful can be helpful, it does not guarantee you will be a succesful model" be careful with the opinions . for instance, here: "In overseas I think the women there make up every day, its like a consumer culture there which force every woman to do make up every day. Like last time I saw every woman overseas they wear heavy make up to work or university every day" that's your observation, your opinion. Is it the truth though? what do you mean by "overseas" anyway: the rest of the world? just because you saw it, doesn't make it true. some people wear a lot of make up all the time, some don't. even if it's true that people wear make up to university, that doesn''t mean anything when it comes to model. A lot of fulltime models wear make up for modelling, but no make up at all in their everyday life. And since you are talkig about freelance modelling anyway: for a lot of types of modelling, make up isn't that big of a deal (arrt nude or figure modelling, for instance) instead of that whole part, just get down to what you actually want to say: that it is an advantage if you can do your own make up, even if it's just basics. It is not a requirement, but it helps. so in general: don't speak from opinion. Wiki is not about people having opinions: it's about facts. So don't speak from the "I" form either: "I think... I heard... I have seen... I..." no. facts, not opinions. watch your spelling. You tend to use words that are acceptable to use to your friends, but not on a wiki page. examples I have seen are: coz =p vids and so on. I also find it peculiar that, for a page on freelance modelling, there is no overview on the different types of freelance modelling and what their individual requirements are. If I would write this page, I would go for a different structure, more like this *general explanation of what freelance modelling is (as opposed to agency modelling. *different genres of freelance modelling and their requirements *general tips and tricks that make you a better model (this is where you could talk about make, posing tips, general attitude...) *how to become a freelance model (determining the genre you want to do, work with local photographers TF until you have a stronger portfolio, set starting rates and grow from there etc. Maybe even a part about the legal aspect of it (some models do this fulltime, like a job, so how does that work legally) *helpful sites (like modelmayhem...)
Models rate is to high without sounding rude in General Industry
Which is a pricing model that is fast being eroded away due to photographers having so many choices, hence why most models will reasonably bend their rates to accommodate a photographer that is offering a reasonable payment. Contrary to popular belief- a model's or photographer's worth (in the client's eyes) isn't predicated on how much the client can make from their work, but rather whether or not the model or photographer's work can be easily generated by someone else at a cheaper price for the same or nearly the same result. Obviously this doesn't pertain to famous models/photographers. A new average-looking model might want to charge $800 or more for the day, but she'd be hard pressed to get it if all she's doing is modeling for one photographer as it's too easy to find a model to do the same for less than half that daily rate that can produce the same result. Exceptions exist- I'm talking about the rule. In 1997 I shot a gal for the web, that looked (for the lack of a better description) like a real-life Barbi doll. It was the highest price I have ever been paid for photographing a model, and I shot her for about 30-45min if that. She made four figures from basically 30 min. of actual work, and I'm sure the corporate site made a killing from her photographs. Today, she couldn't get that rate if her life depended on it because the web is saturated and even though her look was very unique, the saturation of online glamour and porn, has killed the freshness of the whole industry from print, film, television, and of course the web. I can skip over to most National Universities is the U.S. and find a competent gal to model by the end of the day. To the OP. This is business to a lot of photographers and models. Don't worry about the thin-skinned folk and conduct yourself like any reasonable person would. If a model's rate is too high for you, then simply offer your best rate as a counter offer. If the model accepts it great! If the model doesn't, then wish that model the best, and find another model. Too easy *** Be sure to keep track of the prices that model's quote you, and the price that you've actually found that you can pay to get the model that you need in order to get the job done. You'll start to build up a nice data base that will provide you with a great guideline for your future work when you need a model. Depending on where you're located, prices will vary, but you'll see a definite trend. Two distinct realities exist: What people want to be paid, and what people typically accept because they need money... Let common sense and good reason be the guide as to what you pay or how you barter. Best in modeling and photography to you all
'you don't seem like a model to me' in Model Colloquy
I asked my friend permission to discuss this here and I finally got around to it: A few weeks ago I was talking to a friend that told me he feels that all models are one trick ponies that have no skills and are handed freakish amounts of money to simply do nothing. After laughing hysterically and explaining to him that I am constantly stressed out, living on a shoestring and frequently having to decide between eating a proper meal and purchasing beauty supplies, I talked to him about the differences in modeling (agency vs. freelance, and style by style) what goes into a shoot, and the skills you do actually have to have. I even confided that I was raised by an oldschool feminist, and have been wanting to do a project or some charity events that showcase other intelligent, well-rounded models, with the proceeds going to women's education and to encourage young girls to follow whatever career they choose, and help break the 'stupid model' stereotype. He said 'wow, to me you don't even seem like a model' I felt like he was saying I didn't 'seem like a model' because I had been well-educated and cared about things. Anyway it struck a chord with me and I got to thinking about some other 'model stereotypes' that people outside the modeling world like to use. I mentioned I was raised by a hardcore feminist. When I lived with my mother I did exclusively promotional for awhile, and now that I spend 90% of my time out of the house, and have been shooting up a storm, she's brought it up many times when i see her. The one that stuck with me the most is that all models are denigrating to women, and as a model I am wasting my intelligence and participating in a male dominated industry that exists solely to perpetuate the objectification of women. Because of this I am a failure and a disappointment not only as her daughter, but to all women as a whole. She's mentally ill, and incapable of 'learning' a new opinion, so I mostly just smile and nod through being called a slut and failure. However, I took some of her 'teachings' to heart and I do spend time donating/volunteering in women's causes and rub elbows with a lot of women that hold less extreme versions of that view and will snark me behind my back or treat me as a joke. other things i've heard: - I don't always make money at shoots (TF). I must not be that good of a model/'you shoot constantly, you must be loaded, why can't you go out to dinner with us?' - You're thin, you're perpetuating the stereotype that only thin women are beautiful (my favorite for this one is when the bigger girls at my college laud praise on plus size models and talk about how beautiful and 'real' they are while throwing me evil glances and snorting when i come back from the gym) - the 'if you can do it I can do it attitude.' Girls constantly ask me to bring them on shoots, or pressure photographers I know to shoot them. Girls that seriously want to be models are fine, but a lot of the girls I've dealt with that do this are trying to make a point that i'm not pretty/the girls above that think i'm not a 'real woman' because of my weight/modeling is easy and I'm just a whine for being stressed constantly - i must be self-absorbed/shallow/too stupid/unskilled to hold any other career - I only do this because I want attention from men Do you experience 'model hate' or negative stereotypes because you're a model? What are some instances you've dealt with? Are you a feminist? What are your views on your career vs. your beliefs? (I'm quite interested in this one, because the only literature I can find on the subject is ex-models that stopped because they felt their careers were in conflict with their beliefs, and I kind of want to do a 'roundup' of sorts) Who do you get your model hate from? Family, friends, strangers? How do you handle it? Ignore? Educate? Other? Any other thoughts you have are welcome. I ponder strange things sometimes I guess. Like I said I'm interested in actively trying to break the 'model stereotype' and any input on your experiences will give me loads to think about and address if I ever get my project off the ground, and help me deal in day to day life with people that are anti-model.
I'm short... Agencies? in Model Colloquy
Since when did suggesting someone to look into nude modeling became a degrading act? People are giving the OP some realistic advice. They didn't say she should pose nude. They said she should exercise the though of doing nudes, if she's can't get agency representation. If you travel overseas, pick up the European version of Vogue, Maxim and other fashion magazines there. They have nudity in them. Something to think about. Remember that link I posted yesterday? I'm posting it again today. BTW, someone decided to do study on height and agency represented models. The numbers are not the OP's side. This is the source. A study done in 2002 showed that among top editorial fashion agencies in Los Angeles and New York, 81% of their “editorial fashion” models were 5’9” and above; 15% were between 5’8” and 5’9”, and only 4% were below 5’8” tall. So, it begs the question why should a modeling agency choose the OP over other models who are taller than her? To paraphrase the late Reverend Ike, the best way to help the poor is not to be poor yourself. The folks at New Models have articles on agencies and the how to contact them. That's the modeling version of a Faux-rarri? No matter how well you can make them. People won't mistake it for the real thing. Also, who's going to buy fashion images involving short models? That's like going to a Ford Fever Weekend event looking for brakes for a Pontiac Firebird/Trans Am. A few things to consider: The OP's closest market is NYC. That's a very competitive market. She's competing with those with real agency representation. She's also competing with those who have been published, and those who have no issues posing nude. What can she bring to the table that will separate her from her peers? No 2 people are ever alike. The model at 5'9 will have a better chance at getting fashion, commercial and editorial work than 4'9 model. The only genres where 4'9 models would get a chance to succeed are fine art and glamour. With that being said, non-nude gigs in those genre are extremely limited, and the majority of them does involve some form of nudity. It goes back to what I said earlier. What separates her from other models; the ones who do nudes, the ones who are with agencies, the ones with marketable looks? Because outside of talent agencies, model agencies don't have space in their books for models in or around the OP's height. If she went there, they'll tell that her they're looking for models with specific height, specific measurements, etc or reject her on the spot. Those with real world modeling industry experience will tell you there's a better chance Michael Bay winning an Oscar than short models getting signed with a modeling agency.
How to recompose and still have a sharp picture in Photography Talk
Usually 1/200 second with studio strobes (set on less than full power to allow quick recycling). Most of the models I've worked with do what I call "modeling in motion." They begin with a pose and after each shot make one or more small, incremental changes in the pose – change the direction they're looking in, the tilt of the head, the position of their arm or arms, shift their weight, change the shift or bend of the body, etc. Usually about two changes per shot. The list is endless, and the number of poses they can provide is theoretically unlimited. I call this Stage 4 modeling. Stage 1 – Deer in the headlights. Stage 2 – Tell me what to do. A lot like posing for a portrait sitting. "Move your left hand a few inches to the right. Bring your fingers together; you don’t want those fingers splayed. Tilt your head to the left. No, your other left..." Stage 3 – Canned poses. The model learns a number of canned poses and cycles through them in each shoot. Stage 4 – Modeling in motion. (See above.) Stage 5 is all about giving quality, storytelling expressions that are appropriate to the lighting, mood, pose, concept or theme, wardrobe, purpose of the images, etc., every time or almost every time. That is the most difficult part of modeling. When a model has mastered Stages 4 and 5, she has arrived. Her skills are up there with the top models, and the main differences between them are usually the model's look and modeling style, details and nuances. I can get more and better images from a model who's at Stage 4 or 5 in 5 minutes than with a model who's at Stage 2 in an hour. It’s not like the whole shoot is at 12, 15 or 20 ppm (poses per minute). You may only have one or maybe two bursts at these rates per hour, and they only last a minute or so. Then we take a breath, let the camera dump images from the buffer to the CF card, regroup and do something else. At other times it may be something like 4-6 ppm, maybe even less. But when everything comes together and the shoot is working right and everything is just flowing, that’s when the speed builds – and that’s when the best shots usually come. For the majority of the images in my portfolio, I spent about 15 minutes shooting that particular wardrobe/makeup/hair/background combination. Hit one good burst, and you’ve probably got the shot. That’s not to say that I never provide any direction to the model. But with a really good model, it only takes a few words to steer things in the direction you want them to go. There are times when I want a very specific pose. At those times I slow things down, direct more and work more deliberately. Get the shot, then see what the model can do in terms of variations – generally slower with smaller incremental changes. I find myself doing this more and more lately. But just about every set includes modeling in motion. I get compliments on my models' poses all the time, as if I were directing the model's every move. Most of them were shot this way (though not necessarily at top speed). The four most commented and listed images in my portfolio were all shot somewhere between 10-15 ppm. There have been many compliments on the pose in my avatar. Not only did I not direct the pose. It wasn't even intended as a headshot. It was cropped from a shot that was originally waist-up. Compliment April Berry on that one. The 20 ppm model was yesterday. I have more than 200 solid, publication quality images (out of about 550) from five wardrobe changes to choose from.
Directing Poses in Photography Talk
I'm not quite sure what you mean by "directing poses." That could mean everything from coming up with winning poses to giving directions. I'll offer a grab-bag of suggestions here and hopefully some of them will apply to your situation. 1. Print out examples of poses you want to try (or tweak) and show 'em to the model. Some models work best by examples. And in general you should keep an inspiration file of shots that you just love or poses where, even if you don't like the photo or the model or expression, the pose works for you and you want to try it in your own photo. 2. Examine the model's build. The same pose is radically different if the model has short arms/biceps vs. longer ones. Or stick legs vs. developed calf muscles or wearing heels. A smart photographer learns to read a model's build to see what poses are likely a good (or bad) fit. 3. Think composition. Look at the background. Create poses that work with the background. Here are two examples. The first one is a +18 pose with Mara Geneva in front of a painted window full of triangles. So her pose creates a series of triangles: … 8#/d2yduv5 The second pose is of LovelyLittleCreature. She's in a large window where the panes form a cross. So what pose does she do? A stylized cross that plays off the form behind her. Again, +18: … 4#/d322vao 4. Use a mirror behind you the model can see herself in. I generally don't like doing this. But there are a couple of models I've worked with, gotten great results from and they swear by the value of a mirror. As for the actual act of posing a model, I tell brand new models we can do this a couple of ways (in terms of how I instruct them): --I can model the pose (always good for a laugh). This is best when the model has no idea of the specific pose but once she gets the idea she can play with it and tweak it and make it her own. --I can give verbal instructions ("put your left hand behind your head but lower so it's on your neck"). I found this to work best when it's a model who has most of the position down but we want a small change or variation or I see a flaw. --I can "mirror" what I want (so instead of saying "left hand behind your neck" I put my right hand behind my neck and like a mirror image they go to their left). This tends to work well with models who reverse verbal instructions. --physically positioning a model (I move a leg or get an assistant to correct some hair). I never do this unless the model indicates she prefer this method. I also usually start out with a brand new model by talking about a couple of posing basics: about creating a dynamic look with her body, S/Z curves, altering shoulders, not facing the camera directly, using the body to convey emotions and so on. As for inspiration, this site is chock-a-block full of inspiration. Just start clicking on portfolios and looking. Not for great photos ("gee, I'm going to copy that exactly") but for poses that you see are effective. Even amateurish shots that are ruined by a lousy expression or an on-camera produced shadow can still display some clever poses. So start looking. Ed
Asked again: model release... in General Industry
If a model is worrying that a release may take away all her rights to her own photos, she does not understand the legalities. A model release generally has no bearing on whether or not the model can use the images, it only has bearing on how others may use the images. Generally, in the US, without paperwork to the contrary, a model does not have any inherent rights to the images from a photo shoot. What she may have is the right to place restrictions on certain uses of her likeness. A "model release" is a document where the model grants permission for use of her likeness. A "model release" does not give the model any rights to the images. A document which gives the model rights, is no longer a "model release" (although it may contain a release). If a model wants to use the images, she generally needs permission from the copyright holder (usually the photographer). This document is called a "usage license". If the model wants to prevent some or all of the images from being shown she needs to make an agreement with the photographer. This is called a "contract". A model release may give permission to use her likeness for any purposes (a "full release") or for specific purposes (i.e. to promote a specific business in print advertising for a period of one year). A "Usage License" may allow the model to reproduce the images for specific uses (i.e. to promote model's career on facebook, Model Mayhem, Comp Cards, business cards and in model's portfolio) A contract may place any additional restrictions and obligations that the parties agree to (i.e. Photographer will destroy and not release/display any images un which the model's nipples are visible, Photographer will not sell prints of the photographs, who will be paid, how much and when). It is generally much cleaner if the above are separate documents. If the model wants to make prints at CostCo, they want to see a simple usage license. They don't want to wade through a long document and have to decide if the rest of the terms were met and the model therefore has the right to make prints. If the photographer wants to use the images in a context where a release is needed, a third party will want to see a nice simple release. Not a long document that drags in other issues which need to be worried about. It is certainly possible for all three to be combined into a single, however this should not be attempted by amateurs. Getting it wrong might invalidate the entire document. The law is tricky, and frequently does not make sense. Anytime you need a legal agreement, it should be written by an attorney. This is even more important for complicated documents like a combined release/usage license/contract. Of course, These are only generalities. There are lots of exceptions, and some of this may not apply in any particular situation. Laws vary by country, and in the US by state. I am not a lawyer and you should not rely on anything I say. For reliable legal advice, you should always consult an attorney who specializes in this field.
90% of Life............ in General Industry
[img][/img] Model: Jessica Bleier, who shows up (in magazines) all the time! I thought I’d take a minute to discuss one aspect of modeling which isn’t well understood either by the models themselves (I think), or the photographers who wish to work with them. You may have noticed a number of threads (usually initiated by a photographer) which are basically complaints about models who don’t show up, or even follow through on requests to shoot (some even initiated by the models themselves). I’ve had my own experiences with this (one in particular which really put me around the bend early in my career), and I thought I’d talk about what it feels like to be on the other side of the camera. A long time ago (maybe twenty five years ago), Proctor and Gamble decided to reintroduce a marketing icon, Mr. Clean, back into their advertising. As a part of their re-launch of the Mr. Clean logo, Proctor and Gamble had a Mr. Clean look-a-like model search to use at supermarket openings. A woman executive at an advertising client of mine got in touch with me about this and suggested it might be fun for me to enter the model search (the Eastern Regional contest was being held in Washington, DC where I was based at the time). It seemed a little silly, but I did look a little like Mr. Clean at the time, and I thought it might be interesting to experience what models go through emotionally when they are sitting on the other side of the table from me during an interview. I did all of my due diligence, learned the song, got the outfit, buffed up a little, and as the time grew closer many of my friends said they wanted to attend the contest finals with me at a big hotel in DC. So far, so good. But a funny thing happened the night before the contest. After I had all the makeup and the outfit ready to go, I suddenly decided this was a little silly, and I had no idea why I thought it was a good idea several weeks ago. I told my wife I wasn’t going to go downtown in the morning. But she reminded me I looked perfect for the part, that all my friends were coming over to join us for the show, and my wife wanted to know why I was going to disappoint them? Soooo, I once again decided to go to the contest in the morning (after all, I did have the makeup and the outfit!) So the morning came, and as we started to go to the show, I once again decided that this was just too silly and I wanted out. I really wanted out. We could all go into the hotel and watch the contest, but I wasn’t going to participate. And then it dawned on me, this is what it’s like to be a model going to your first casting or job interview. Everyone has always told you that you could be a model, and you are happy that they think so, you want to be a model, but when it finally comes to doing it, it suddenly feels like the worst idea possible! I decided to power through the contest, it was one of the hardest things I’ve ever done sitting in a room with 50(!) other Mr. Clean look-a-likes, singing the song, and answering questions about why I wanted to be Mr. Clean. But I did it. At the time I was a 35 year old fully grown man with a (relatively) successful career behind me, and I somehow managed to push my way through the interview. Here is the rub as I can best explain it. When people say you can do something, you are flattered. When they say it often enough, you consider it. When the opportunity sounds like fun and it will impress your friends, you get excited about the opportunity and you seek it out. Everything is great, you can be a model. The only fly in the ointment is when you actually try to be a model. Then (and only then) do you risk failure. If you never actually try, you can always be, forever! It is only in trying that failure is possible (and let’s face it, even likely). All the cards are stacked in favor of wanting to do it, saying you want to do it, but not in actually trying to do it. You get all the psychic rewards... with none of the risk! Now I was 35 when the Mr. Clean contest was held, and had a lot of life experiences behind me. Think how powerful these emotions are on a young person who’s life experiences are short. Even today, when I have a big job to do for a major client these emotions are with me. I am so excited when I interview for the job, so happy when I get the job. But the day before, the morning of the actual work, I am a little terrified, I wonder what was I thinking? But I have been through this many times before, I put one foot in front of the other and out the door I go. When the job is finished I am frequently really pleased with what I’ve done, even a little surprised at times. But I’ve done this many times before, successfully (thank God!), or I wouldn’t still be in the business. That young person interviewing for their first modeling job doesn’t have any of this to bolster them. In some respects it’s a wonder anyone actually shows up! Just something to think about while your sitting in the studio with the client, makeup artist and the stylist drumming your fingers wondering where the hell that stupid model is. And yes, as Woody Allen said, “90% of life is just showing up!” John -- John Fisher 900 West Avenue, Suite 633 Miami Beach, Florida 33139 305 534-9322
Model Compensation... in Photography Talk
In my opinion, photographers who get offended when models ask to get paid are not being very "professional".I agreed with some of the points you made but not really this one about photographers not being professional because they questioned her want on getting paid. Is there anything wrong with a model wanting to get paid? No. Does she deserve to be paid? Most people want to be paid for their time. I have done shoots for free before and I hate it but I did it and the model is now a repeat customer because she knows my work and how I helped her out when she was starting. The other day I viewed a good number of profiles and I came across several that had photos that were not professionally done (i.e. shot with a cell phone or point and shoot), the model didn't look like she knew what she was doing and yes I do think its the photographer's job to pose the model but the point I am making is that based on her profile here on MM, and I can only go by that, if she had amateurish photos posted how then can she say she will ONLY work for paid assignments? I agree with someone may have filled these models heads and said don't accept any shoots where your not getting paid. I have no idea. If I came across a profile that just blew me away and the pics were professionally done and I said to myself I would like to work with this model then yea I don't have no problem booking and paying that person if she only accepts paid assignments. Sometimes I just need a model or models to make an appearance at an event and they know way in advance that they will be paid for their time. The bottom line, I can only go by what is written or posted in their MM profiles. Some models will say they will do TFP shoots but prefer paid assignments which is cool. I came across one profile and her only experience was being in her High School's fashion show and yet she was one of the "paid assignment only" models. If you notice most of the Very Experienced model profiles on here almost all have PAID ASSIGNMENTS ONLY! Why? They have experience. They don't want no photographer wasting their time on a shoot or acts like he is not sure what he wants and can't deliver. Many of them - modeling is there "9 to 5" job so I totally understand where they are coming from. Its the ones that have ZERO experience but want to act as if they have years of experience and demand payment. I had a model with little experience, tell me recently she wanted me to pay her $400 for 2 hours of work! There was no way that was going to happen! She did get paid for her 2 hours of work but it was not $400! I really didn't want this to turn into a rant. I just made an observation while viewing profiles and wanted to voice my opinion thats all.
Jobs with the surprisingly low pay... which in General Industry
Looking at the survey that this article is based on, I find that the numbers they report for models are useless. Forbes' source is the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Here is the BLS definition of Models: Note that they classify modeling within "Sales and Related Occupations", not (for example) within "Arts, Design, Entertainment, Sports, and Media Occupations". So I think they're leaving out a lot of models that way. They seem to be thinking mostly of promotional models. (Within "Sales", Models are part of the subcategory "Models, Demonstrators, and Product Promoters".) Here is the detailed data on models: Note that this information is from a survey of employers and does not include self-employed models. Also it is a sampling, not a comprehensive census. For these reasons, most if not all of the highest-earning fashion models and "spokesmodels" would not be included. Finally, note that most of the models they list are employed by colleges and universities. I'm guessing this means that they're actually mostly counting artists' models. Their "annual wage" numbers are derived by multiplying an hourly rate by 2,080 hours. This is equivalent to 40 hours per week, 52 weeks per year. Obviously that is invalid for most models. The only relevant conclusion to be drawn from all this is that artists' models at colleges and universities make on average about $16/hour. Big surprise.
3/17/12 - Clovis, CA - Bikes n Babes Workshop!!!! in Events
Saturday March 17th, 2012 12p.m.-8:30 p.m. Three workshops in one!!!! Use of the location for creating your own images. Plus, some sweet props and accessories to shoot with!!! You can attend one workshop or all three!! The first two workshops are $40 each, the last is $80 You can also use the location during the workshop(s) you are not attending for an additional $20. Workshop III includes use of the location. You must attend a workshop in order to use the location. Workshop schedule 12pm to 2:00pm - Workshop I – Indoor Studio Limited to 6 photographers • Posing a model on a bike – (A beautiful female model for Casual, Biker and Bikini) • Posing a model on a bike – (Rugged male model for Casual and Biker guy) • Studio lighting setup and adjustments • White Balance 101 • Light meter 101 • Camera adjustments during a studio photo session • Manual adjustment of color temperature • Using a Polarizing filter in a studio setting • Answer the question of what is the subject; the model or the bike and how to do both? • Workshop fee $40 – Use of the location $20 (must attend Workshop I or II to use the location) • Use of the location is from 2:30pm to 4:30pm 2:30pm to 4:30pm- Workshop II – Outside Limited to 6 photographers • Posing a model on a bike – (A beautiful female model for Casual, Biker and Bikini) • Posing a model on a bike – (Rugged male model Casual and Biker) • Outdoor shooting of a bike (both moving and motionless) • Camera adjustments during an outdoor photo session • When to use Servo, Multi and Single shot? • Using a Polarizing filter • Use of Fill Flash • Panning a shot • Answer the question of what is the subject; the model or the bike and how to do both • Use of the location is from 12pm to 2:00pm • Workshop fee $40 – Use of the location $20 (must attend Workshop I or II to use the location) 5:00pm to 6:30pm - Workshop III – Exclusive indoor Studio Limited to 6 photographers only 6:30pm to 8:30pm or more - Use of the location • Posing a model on a bike – (A beautiful female model for Biker Babe, Bikini, Lingerie and Implied) How to create a “shot list” to get the shots you want from a model • Learn to talk to a model before and during the photo session to get the shots you want • Using Studio lighting • Using Studio Hot lights • Shadow and Light creative ideas • Using color filters on lighting equipment • Camera adjustments during a studio photo session • Manual adjustment of color temperature on camera • Use of the location is from 6:30pm to 8:30pm and is included with your original fee • Workshop fee $80 includes use of the location from 6:30pm to 8:30pm • Attendee must attend the Workshop III for the use of the location Additional information Photographer’s fee includes • Shoe mount Triggers for Studio lighting • Use of the studio lighting • Snacks and drinks • Lounge with tables and chairs • Power for charger, laptop and Tablets • Pick from a preselect assortment of custom bikes • Support staff to move Custom Bikes around
Is this real or a scam? in General Industry
Good evening Arden, my name is -------- and I work as an intern for ------------------------- One of our photographers(---------) recently retired and one of my assigned tasks is to help find new out of area models that he wouldn't have had the chance to work with prior to retirement that may appreciate an opportunity to grow in the art. When he worked here, he partnered with living imagery in Chicago who run a contest every quarter where the top three finalist are invited to a three day stay/two day shoot in Chicago, Il. Each time, he is asked to recommend three models and I would like to suggest you(you have captivating eyes) for his review. As a younger model, who has a nice beginning to her portfolio, I thought you might take unique advantage of the opportunity. Please read over the over the details below careful and let me know if you would be comfortable with the requirements and interested in a possible recommendation. Due to your location, this is not an offer to shoot with us but rather to participate in the competition under our nomination. This process is not meant to be an expense for you, but you would be responsible for setting up the shoots to produce your review photos. For the three review rounds you would be free to shoot with any photographer you are comfortable with or, in the case of the round 1 review, self shoot your photos. Mike is willing (and encourages all applicants) to discuss possible submission photos for thoughts or ideas for reshoots as you put your round 1 portfolio together. If you were invited on to round 2 and could not find a photographer you would be comfortable working with, we would consider working with you to get you down to work with us. Their submission requirements do fall a bit out of your current comfort zone as they require an artistic nude submission(I know you don't do nude and while the review photos require such a set, the shoot itself is not) as well as implied(last quarter they asked for 3 shots in each of high fashion, casual, bikini/lingerie, implied, and artistic(with the implied and artistic allowed to be self-shot if the model was not comfortable having them shot as long as they are well lit and well framed), but these requirements are for their internal staff review only and the final shoot in Chicago does not require nudity(it is normally a high fashion shoot). The reason I am reaching out to you even through your portfolio mentions you do not shoot nude, and the reason we still contact those who prefer to not shoot nude is that, in each review period, it is but a small portion of the overall portfolio and experience. About 70% of the models we recommend do not shoot nude but have decided they are willing to so for the review(some shoot with us, some have photographers they trust, and some elect to shoot those sets themselves which there is allowance for), and I would dare say that to the model everyone has decided that the overall experience and the feedback they receive throughout is worth it. The photos you submit are covered by a non release/destruction agreement which covers the destruction of all review photos within three business days of the close of the review. I know it is out of your comfort zone but I wasn’t sure if you would consider this situation different with the submission photos being for vetting purposes only and never posted anywhere. The submission process is a three round process outlined below: Round 1(deadline would be April 9th it is 18 photos) - This round is really...I don't want to say superficial, but they give you five or six sets (this round it is fashion, Casual, bikini, lingerie, implied, and artistic nude) and for each set they want three specific angles (front, side, and rear) to get your body lines and lay. These shots are to show you as a model at your most base, so no photoshop, no black and white, just straight on shots. This round is pretty much pass/fail they are just looking to see if they could work with you, your individuality as a model comes in the future rounds. This round is also tailored to newer models who just want to take the chance and see as this round the submitted shots can all be self shot as long as they are of good quality. That way you don’t need to find a photographer until you find out if you made it to round 2 and that you have a true chance. Round2(deadline would be sometime in early June)- you get to start showing who you are as a model and why they should want to work with you. They give you a number of elements (such as water or natural shadow) and you submit a portfolio of your own creation factoring in these elements. This is the round that I love, as it is amazing to watch young models grow as they develop their portfolios and they always come out of it with a portfolio they are proud of. Round 3(Deadline would be sometime around early Aug)- They ask a set of questions regarding your interests, best/most interesting experiences and a few others to try and factor in your personality, they also ask for a smaller portfolio I think of five shots that you feel best represent you as a model. The current shoot(last quarter but yours would be similar) is a fashion or shoot where the models will model three dresses from an upcoming spring line tailored to their measurements which they will keep in addition to their two day pay of just over $1300 and the three day stay in Chicago. Every quarter they fly in a special guest photographer for the shoot. No pressure, you have a great look, and I would like to suggest you to Mike for his review. If you are interested, we ask that you take five min to fill out an application to let us know a little bit about you as a model. This helps us decide who truly wants the opportunity and who will follow through. It can be found at: --------------------------------------------------- I hope you consider it, at the very least you will come out the experience with a portfolio you can be proud of!
I'm in ur Edu section in SF2
We can be clear on one thing: if you had modeled with hundreds and hundreds of photographers over several years for free in one city and never been published, should you be questioned, you could provide those stats. I think that most people would find that acceptable because of the range of experience. Tears, geographic areas covered and tear sheets, however, speak volumes as to qualifications of a model. A model who earns her sole source of income from modeling and/or racks up tear sheets is necessarily operating as a professional. Given that the piece you wrote is about conducting oneself as a professional, I'd have to say that it certainly matters. You haven't read me suggest that you need to be a traveling model to write that piece. However, traveling models stand to work with exponentially more photographers and encounter a wider range of situations. I wouldn't put it as a requirement that a model who writes a piece like that be one who travels, but I would imagine that the models on this site who are active and have the most experience would be traveling models. If you've spent most of your time in one or two markets, then your experience is only relevant to those markets. Models who've either covered a lot of ground or worked in destination cities (NYC, LA, Chicago, etc) are going to get a wide range of people coming to them. Don't take the op-ed piece down. The info provided isn't bad, just poorly structured (your major points and sub-points could probably be restructured for better clarity). But when people say things like "This should be stickied for new models to read." you're also going to have people pose the question of "Who the fuck are you?" Because if you're an unknown quantity with no way to prove you're knowledgeable to the reader who's completely unfamiliar with you (unlike people of this narrow section of the internet who think so highly of you) what you say is no more qualified than what anyone else says. Plenty of models have been lead astray by people who don't know what they hell they're talking about but present their wording in a rational manner. How can they separate good advice from a sea of bullshit? By looking at credentials. "Oh, this girl's been on the cover of XYZ 5 times and she's had 2 spreads in ABC. She's been modeling for X years and has worked in Y different cities with over Q different photographers. I don't know her, but I'd guess she knows what she's talking about." That's why it matters. That's all well and good that you've tested it. Never did you see me write that you think that you are an expert. I can say in complete honesty that I have no idea what you were thinking. However, that opinion piece is posed as an education resource for those in need of insight; you open the door for people to ask you how you're qualified. I know, I know: truth is truth and all that romantic stuff. Yeah, but for people who don't know you, everything is bullshit until qualified as otherwise. Disclaimers aren't qualifications. Even op-ed pieces on will provide the background qualifications of the person who wrote it. "Sue Z. Sioux was the Supervisor of Plunging Operations under Reagan and Director of Toiletary Procedures during the Clinton administration. Her book 'This Shit is Out of Control' is a NYTimes bestseller. The opinions presented are those of the author and do not reflect those of CNN." or something to that effect. As for having someone else write it… if someone wants to. If you want to do something so unscrupulous as place someone else's name on it to qualify what you wrote, that's up to you; I suggest no such thing. But I do that that an educational resource should be authored by the people have the standing to do so. If that's you, great. Prove it. And you don't do it to prove it to me; you do it on principle because you should be proving it to everyone.You're being absolutely absurd, and I think your problem is with MM edu, not me in particular. My qualifications are my portfolio, and that it works. If a newbie wants to apply their critical thinking caps to my article they can either 1) decide if what I'm doing is what they want to be doing, and if it is, my advice is important or 2) think about the information objectively and whether or not it makes sense to them/would work for them. It's more ridiculous to assume that someone with tearsheets is always right. Also, MM Edu does offer exactly what you're talking about, as an "about me" at the bottom. Mine reads: And that's the truth. That's me. That's all there is to know. I have a body of work, credits to check, and just "freelance model from Austin, based in Edmonton, sometimes travels for modeling". I don't know what else you want, other than to rant.
*Group Shoot Events* May 19, 2012 Las Vegas, NV in Events
Follow us on all of our networks Official Website | Facebook Page | Twitter Page |Meetup Page Video footage of our recent event: Sin City Sinners ~ 15+ glamour models Photographers leave the wives at home for this one Theme: Naughty Sinners Day When: Saturday May 19th, 2012 from 11:00am to 6pm Where: 9,000 Sqft Mini Mansion in Las Vegas, Nevada # of Models: 15+ (Models will be posted accordingly booked) Food: Food & drinks will be provided Meet & Greet: 11am to 11:30am Group Shoot: 11:30am to 2:30pm Mini Break: 2:30pm to 2:50pm Private 1:1's: 2:50pm to 6pm Photographer Cost: $150.00 Book your own 1:1's with the model directly ~ (Pre-booking is strongly encouraged) Model Release agreements will be provided No Boyfriend/Assistants (unless they pay the entry fee) Refund Policy: No refunds. If you can't attend, we will credit your payment to the next event. 2:1 Model to Photographer Ratio Model/Photographer Rotation to assure equal time You may bring 2 strobes or your Speedlights for the indoor shoots Outside the residency, natural light, etc Model Info: Free admission Must participate in group shoot in order to sell 1:1's Must pose swimwear or lingerie in group shoot You may sell model releases for no more than $10, $20 for nudes Set your rates for 1:1 shoots & release agreements with the photographer Model Release agreements will be provided No escorts (unless they pay the photographer fee) Thread Link to our recent event: Video footage of our recent event: More then 2 months to plan your trips for all interested to attend if your not local. Models or Photographers with any questions, please email me @ [img][/img] Limited images of the property. [img][/img] [img][/img] [img][/img] Model Lineup Click on models image to contact them for 1on1 rates Nadia Brewer [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Ela Passion [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Implied Nudes Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Kimberly Pavalko [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Nicole W [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Nicole [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Kayluh Elizabeth [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Layla Michelle [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Larrysa Rose [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Jamie Michelle [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Stephanie Torres [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Tiffany Alexa [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Miss Yuen [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Shana [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Candy [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Annie Violet [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Paisley Lais [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Samiha D [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm MORE MODELS WILL BE ADDED SHORTLY
Deposits question in General Industry
While I figure that anything a model & a photographer agree to is their business alone, I am not a fan of models paying photographers deposits. Here are my thoughts: ... If you are the one paying the other party $$$, it is sometimes appropriate for the paying party to pay a deposit. If a photographer is going to pay a model, or if the arrangement is for a TF* session, it is (IMO) inappropriate for the photographer to ask the model for a deposit. ... Seems to me that "flake threads" dominate these forums, but there also are a significant number of "I didn't get my pictures" threads, too. If deposits are supposed to reduce the likelihood that a model will flake, why don't we think a deposit will improve the likelihood that a photographer will deliver the promised images on time? To be fair, I would think a more appropriate "deposit scheme" would go like this: --- Model & photographer agree to work together. --- Model gives the photographer a deposit (say $25). --- Model shows up on time & ready to go. --- Photographer refunds the model's deposit. --- They work together as expected. --- (If appropriate, the photographer pays the model any modeling fee). --- Photographer pays the model a deposit (say $75). (*) --- Photographer delivers the promised images in the promised format, on time. --- Model refunds the photographer's deposit. (*) The photographer's deposit is larger because a) the model's work has already been completed and b) because photographers tend to be more financially established than models; the deposit has to be big enough to be meaningful to the person paying the deposit. The size of the deposit is, of course, negotiable. But I figure that no photographer here would agree to give a model a deposit to ensure that they deliver the promised images on time. So, not a fan of deposits.
Model Releases in Newbie Forum … equire.php States requiring a written model release: Illinois Indiana Massachusetts Nevada New York Ohio Pennsylvania Rhode Island Virginia Wisconsin Three other states (California, Kentucky and Texas) that explicitly require a written release from the heirs of someone who is deceased. States require model releases under very narrow circumstances. Arizona California Delaware Kentucky Louisiana New Jersey New Mexico Texas States that have statutes that appear to allow consent to be obtained orally or in writing. Florida Nebraska Oklahoma Tennessee Utah Washington State-by-State Statutes State Codes Requiring Written Model Releases Illinois: 765 ILCS Ann. 1075 Indiana: Indiana Code 32-36 Massachusetts: Mass. General Laws 214-3a Nevada: N.R.S. 597.720 New York: N.Y. Civil Rights Law Sections 50 and 51 Ohio: O.R.S. 2741.02 Pennsylvania: 42 Pa.C.S.A Ch. 83a §8316 Rhode Island: RIGL 9-1-28 Virginia: Va. Code Ann. 8.01-40 Wisconsin: Wis. Stat. 995.50(2)(b) State Codes with Implied Model Release Laws Arizona: Arizona Revised Stat. 12-761 Written model releases required from the solider or heirs of a solider when their likeness is used for commercial purposes. California: California Codes, Civil Code, Section 3344-3344.1 Written model releases required from heirs of person with celebrity at their time of death. Delaware: Delaware Code, Title 11, Ch. 180 §1335(a)6 Permission is required when photographing a person who is “getting dressed or undressed” and may otherwise have an expectation of privacy. Kentucky: Ky. Rev. Stat. 391.170 Written model releases required from heirs of deceased persons. Louisiana: La. Rev. Stat. 14 §102.21 Written model releases required from the heirs of a deceased solider when their likeness is used for commercial purposes. New Mexico: New Mexico State Stat, 57-22-6.3 Written model releases required when likeness is used for fundraising purposes. New Jersey: New Jersey Permanent Stat. 2A:58D-1 Permission is required when photographing “intimate parts under circumstances in which a reasonable person would not expect to be observed.” Texas: Texas Property Code 26.002 Written model releases required from heirs of deceased persons. State Codes Allowing Verbal or Written Model Releases Florida: Florida Stat. 540.08 Nebraska: Revised Statute 202-202 Oklahoma: Okla. Stat. Title 12, §1448 and 1449. However 21, § 839.1A – Explicitly requires a release from heirs of a deceased solider. Tennessee: Tennessee Code 47-25-1102 Utah: Utah Code Ann. 45-3-1 et seq. Washington: Wash. Rev. Code 63.60.010 States that Recognize Need for Model Release by Common Law These states do not have explicit model release laws in their state code however, through case law and other judicial opinions a common law “right of publicity” has been established. Alabama Arkansas Connecticut Georgia Hawaii Maine Michigan* Minnesota Missouri New Hampshire South Carolina West Virginia State Codes without Expressed Model Release Laws Alaska Colorado Idaho Iowa Kansas Maryland Mississippi Montana North Carolina North Dakota Oregon South Dakota Vermont Wyoming
MM behind the photo in General Feedback
Well you definately picked the one with a,lets say interesting tale. Shit where do I start?? To keep it simple,there were 3 models including myself,I'll refer to the other 2 models as model 1 and model 2. Shoot was up in Marquette,MI at the ice falls.8hr drive with the photog,MUA and model 1.We got to the hotel around 7pm,dropped off our bags and went to pick up model 2(she lives up there)and go to dinner.First place(sushi,yum!) was closed so we went to a bar and had ok food.Then we dropped off model 2,it was about 9pm.We went to Wal-Mart to pick up snowboots for MUA and model 1 and photog needed a few things.Got back to hotel at 10pm which was pretty late cuz we all had to get up at 5am. So 5am comes and the MUA was suppose to start model 1's make-up at 5 but model 1 got to our room(MUA and I shared a room)at 5:30.So MUA finished model 1 at 6am then started mine.We were suppose to be on our way to the falls by 6:30 but ended up leaving at 7ish. So now we get to where the falls are but had to walk .75 of a mile to get to the actual falls.Because of all the warming and then cooling we've been having(very odd winter here)the trails were packed down snow on top of ice.Pretty slippery but walkable.So we finaly get to where the falls are but in order to get to the base of the falls we had to go down a very steep slope.This is where the "fun" part begins... This slope was pretty steep,a bit steeper than a staircase,and about 50 feet long.So we had a rope w/knots(skinny rope,knots no bigger than a walnut)that we had to slide our hand down as we slid down the slope.The slope had tree roots and rocks jutting out of it but was fairly covered in ice and snow so it wasn't TOO bad but not fun.When I went to go down,per request of the photog,I wrapped the rope around my arm once by my wrist.I knew this wasn't a good idea cuz the rope could get caught up and my wrist would get "noosed" but I did it cuz thats what he said to do.BIG mistake.Rope got caught up and my wrist got "noosed".Hurt like hell but no real damage. Now on to the next slope.Same as the first but you had to guide yourself to the left so you didn't hit a tree.No problems here. While still clothed we chose were we would be posing and then model 2 did her set.Passerbys came through so we had to wait for about 45min.Then model 1 went.Next I went.We all posed for a total of 5-7min a piece so we wouldn't freeze our butts off.We also had layers of clothing,snowpants and chemical warmers to keep us warm trekking out there and back. So now we have to get back up the slope.This is where it get REALLY FUN.We decided,after seeing hikers do it,to use the rope and climb up off to the side of the slippery part.There were footholes and more snow than ice so it was a lil easier to get your footing on.I grab the rope and start climbing.Pretty easy til I got about 3ft away from the top.Theres a bunch of tree roots intertwining and they're covered in ice so I couldn't find a good spot to step while I pulled myself up.The rope was "stretchy" so I didn't feel like I had a steady resistance and then the knots slid right through my hands and I fell about 3ft.Thankfully I caught myself before falling all the way down.I would've been hurt REALLY bad if I did.I gathered myself enough to get up to the top and then I sat down and cried for a couple min.That fall scared the hell outta me and really shook me up. Model 1 & 2,MUA and photog made it up without falling but it wasn't easy.We trekked back to the car and headed home. End of story
stylist rights to portfolio images and credit in Photography Talk
so this is a two parter that i will try and keep short. i am a makeup artist,stylist, and model. my good friend is an amateur photographer. she had just purchased a legit camera (not point and shoot) and i was the first model she shot with it. i was already a published and well established model/name in the pinup community and she was just starting out. no contracts were ever signed but it was understood since we were friends that i wouldnt charge her and i would get use of the images. i always credit the photographer! we ventured into a magazine (print on demand) together and it was understood the first issue would be mainly me modeling and id provide free styling for myself and the few other models in the magazine shoots. again no contracts. my compensation was a creative outlet, published, and of course the use of the photos in my port. she called me co-editor and content editor. at the beginning i already knew i wasnt living up to the responsibilities of the title but wrote it off to her being a control freak and understood as i myself can be the same. before we ventured into issue two it was discussed that since issue one got her name out there (to people who recognized me but had never heard of her), and using the fact that people in the pinup world were beginning to take notice of me that we could start charging models for the styling. i had invested quite a bit in issue one with traveling an hour back and forth to the shoots, supplies, and taking time off from paid shoots dedicating myself to the magazine i was "co-editing". as issue two began i started noticing that i was less and less involved, was unaware of the content (i was called content editor) and was slowly being squeezed out as a model and makeup artist. the pieces began to be put together for me and i noticed i had no say creatively as an artist something id written off to "control freak", had yet to be paid for any of the work i had already done, and even found out about the release party online like everyone else. a date i had already booked for an out of town signing. realizing i had been had i confronted her only to be met with a totally different person. i walked away from the future planned shoots and washed my hands of it. unfortunately she had already gotten her name out there, taken my contacts as her own (retro lovely, pinup models, pinup photographers, etc all who knew me legitimizing her as a photographer). i understood lesson learned and that i couldnt unring that bell. within 24 hours the entire website had been changed, all my credit for the makeup i had already done was erased, the shoots i had already done for the second issue were not included nor was i given edited copies or copies at all as my compensation, she lined up a new "makeup artist" and had found my model replacement in an eager new model. i then realized that perhaps this had been planned longer than i had known. i know i said id make this short sorry. i wrote this off to lesson learned and continued focusing on my modeling which i had put off to help her out. there were no conflicts until recently after i had received more recognition and publications as a model. suddenly my replacement model and "stylist" began sending me horrific text messages accusing me of stealing work, taking credit that isnt mine, lying, cheating you name it. i had and have absolutely no idea what this girl is referring to. i got threats to slander my name, be called a drug addict and that they would say i hadnt done any of the work that i had done. i notified the police and they said to not respond and unless its physical or property its a civil court matter. i took the advice. i again received more from the model (working under the guidance of the photographer i presume since i dont know this girl), threatening to "out" me, and say god only knows what if i dont remove all her photos from my portfolio. she had also removed all credit on her ports on mm, fb and the like, along with the photographer. as of today she is on fb slandering me like... like... the movies or something. blatant lies i can prove through text messages and statements from people who were there but... im saving that for a lawyer. after, the actual photographer, my old friend, also asked me to remove personal photos i had taken of us quoting washington law that i have infringed her personality or something, even though these are candid photos from my camera, where she isnt tagged or ridiculed in any way. i know please bear with me. my questions are. as a model who never signed a release expect through verbal agreements and back and forth emails discussing the first issue, am i entitled to anything seeing as she made money from my images with no release? as a stylist are there any laws stating that they MUST give me credit for my work? AND since i have verbal and written emails assuring id be paid and wasnt am i entitled to anything? since we were friends and it was understood i used the photos in my portfolio (at the very least since i was never paid), and now that we arent friends (and my port hasnt been updated since), do they have any legal right to have me remove them from my port? the slander, harassment and threats of course ill leave to a lawyer but as professionals do i have any rights? i have emails, texts, and some models willing to admit i styled them, but no contracts were ever signed. please help. these women are two against me and are both vouching for one another on these blatant lies. my husband is about to deploy in a month and the last thing i want to do is be in distress and at a lawyer all the time. i want to just walk away with nothing as long as they stop harassing me (they can continue the slander), so long as i can just move on. but the more they threaten me and lie the more i want justice instead of being complacently victimized. thanks for whoever read this far... i feel helpless and overwhelmed.
Cruise to Mexico - Leave From Long Beach, CA 5/14 in Events
WE DID THIS ONCE BEFORE ... THIS TIME IT IS GOING TO BE BETTER! COME JOIN US FOR FOUR DAYS AND FOUR NIGHTS OF SHOOTING AND CRUSING FUN ... WE'RE OFF TO MEXICO! THE PRICE OF THIS EVENT INCLUDES ALL YOUR COSTS EXCEPT THE COST OF YOUR ONBOARD CABIN, TRANSPORTATION TO LONG BEACH AND DRINKS / TIPS ONBOARD ... IT IS A NEARLY ALL INCLUSIVE PRICE! We are off to sea on the Carnival Inspiration for four days and four nights of fun! [img][/img] CLICK HERE to read about the cruise. We've done all kinds of adventures ... this time we're off to Mexico on a cruise ship. This isn't the first time we have done this. The first trip was a five star event. It went very well. We listed to you though and we think we can make it better. By request, we are going back on the same cruise, but this time it will be even more fun, a better shoot. We're departing from Long Beach, California on May 14th. We'll have two ports of call, Catalina Island and Ensenada, Mexico. We're going to have a great cruise, as a group, plus ... we're also going to be shooting onboard the ship and at all of our destinations. Onboard the ship, you will be able to shoot almost anywhere you want, although public nudity won't be allowed. We'll also have our own, deluxe grand suite where we'll be able to shoot nudes. We'll have a balcony, a whirlpool, a king-sized bed and a lot more. I'll bring the lights. On most of these cruises, the promoters expect the models to pay their own way. That limits your shooting because the models are there on their own. On this cruise, not only are we covering the travel for the models, we are also paying them as well. We are the only cruise adventure that is doing that. In the end it wil be cheaper for you because the mdoels are being paid to come there to shot. On Catalina, I will be chartering a six passenger golf cart and will act as your guide to the island. I have been there over 100 times. The last attendees have asked that we stick with the city becuase there are so many unique places to shoot. It is a real experience. We won't be doing many nudes in town (although we may be able to do a few), but the locations will be great. When we are finished shooting, we'll have lunch together, as a group, at the Blue Parrot. You'll lovee it. In Ensenada, we have already discoverd a wonderul location suitable for outdoor nudes. It is a long, isolated beach surrounded by dunes and wetlands. We barely touched all the possibilities there. You'll get to do them all this time. After the shoot, we'll have dinner together in the city and then you are free to explore the ship or the town after that. SHOOTING SCHEDULE MONDAY 7:30-9:00PM In Suite Nude TUESDAY 10:00-1:00PM Catgalina Fashion/Swimwear 3:00-4:00PM In Suite Nude / Members Only 4:00-5:00PM In Suite Nude WEDNESDAY 10:00-1:30PM Ensenada Nude 4:00-5:30PM On Ship Fashion / Swimwear THURSDAY 9:30-11:30AM On Ship Fashion / Swimwear 2:00-4:00PM In Suite Nude - Indoor/Outdoor 7:30-8:30PM In Suite Nude - Night - Outdoor The Suite and the Models are available at all other times for private bookings Carnival is arranging for us to be seated together for our meals and organized shipboard activities. Onboard, there is nightly entertainment, more food than you could possibly eat and activities througout the day. When you aren't shooting you are free to partake in any activities onboard the ship. We plan this event to have a 2:1 photographer to model ratio. Initially we'll have six to eight photographers and three models. As we get more photographers, we'll add models. We can easily accomodate up to five models and ten photographers. It is even possible to handle more. The price for this event is $800 for non-members or $700 for members. The price DOES NOT include the cost of your cabin on the ship, transportaiton to Long Beach, onboard bar tab or tips. Cabins on the ship start at about $325 per person for an inside cabin, double occupancy. Outside cabins are about $360. If you are on a budget, more than two can be accomodated in a cabin, if arranged for in advance Single occupancy cabins are available, but at a higher price. There are both inside and outside cabins on the same deck as the suite. They are also at a slightly higher cost. Carnival has been running a number of specials. We will put you in touch with our representative who will help you find the best cabin deal. You will be able to pick your own roommate. The cost of this event is non-refundable if you cancel unless we are able find someone to take your place. HERE ARE THE FIRST THREE MODELS [img][/img] [img][/img] [img][/img] MORE WILL BE ADDED AS PHOTOGRAPHERS SIGN UP. CLICK HERE to check out the model's profiles ALL MODELS WILL POSE NUDE, A NUDE PROMOTIONAL RELEASE IS INCLUDED! A FULL COMMERCIAL RELEASE FOR THE ENTIRE CRUISE IS JUST $50 PER MODEL You are welcome to make any travel arrangements to Long Beach you want. Air travel and transfers are available through Carnival Cruises. You may also make your own airline reservations or travel on AMTRAK. For those who want to drive from San Francisco, we will be carpooling from the studio on Sunday night, right after the Sunday photo event. We'll drive to Button Willow and stay at the Super 8 Motel. We'll drive the rest of the way on Sunday morning. If you elect to carpool with us on Sunday, you will get a $25 discount for the Sunday photo shoot at the studio. Parking is available at the Carnival Cruise terminal. All models are available for private booking, but private bookings are not required. The models are being compensated for the shoot so you should not feel obligated to book them.. No passport is required, but you do have to bring a birth certificate with an original seal. There will be one special shoot for members of the Photo Studio Club! Have you joined yet? [img][/img] Cabin Reservations will be made directly with Carnival through our representative. We will provide you with his telephone number upon registration. You may pick your own cabin mate or we will help you select one. You can reserve a cabin onboard at anytime. It is first come, first served. You will make payment arrangements for the cabin directly with Carnival. WE WILL PROVIDE A LIST OF ALL REGISTERED PHOTOGRAPHERS SO YOU CAN SELECT A ROOMMATE
I don't pay in General Industry
I don't really understand the "I don't pay models" mindset. Every working artist I know, whether they are painters, sculptors, or photographers, regularly pays models. Maybe that's because they are all successful enough to be able to afford it. But, anyway on MM it seems to be regarded as a merit badge to not pay models. So for all the newcomers, here it is: The Top Ten Ways to “Never Pay Models” 1. Go to shoot outs. Pay the promoter instead of the model. 2. Give the model “gas money”. Like a modeling fee but not a modeling fee. 3. Rent a hotel room for the model. Claim you need it to shoot in. Maybe she’ll let you spend the night. 4. Let the model stay at your place. She saves hundreds of dollars and lets you shoot her. Pretend she’s trading for the images. 5. Take the model out for dinner. A nice dinner with a bottle of wine. It will cost more than the modeling fee. But it feels like a date. Wowie! 6. Buy the model a plane ticket. Maybe only double or triple what the modeling fee would have been. 7. Don’t shoot anyone. Ever. 8. Drugs. Lots of drugs. Good ones aren’t cheap. 9. Sex. Yes, this works. It’s actually a centuries old practice. But don’t get confused, not every model is your girlfriend. 10. If all else fails, just lie. That’s a very popular approach too. These techniques all work. They have been used for years by some of MM’s “best” photographers. You can use them too.
How does one become titles as a "model?" in Model Colloquy
She sounds a little uppity, or possibly insecure about her own work. I've said it about 40 million times, but I'll say it again: Old ladies in denture cream ads are models. The people playing volleyball on the beach in herpes med commercials are models. Portly, middle-aged men who pose nude for art classes are models. "Booth babes" who stand around at car shows, handing out flyers, are models. The fuzzy white cat who sits on a pillow, on a bag of catfood, is a model. The little kid who is cuddling the white cat on the pillow, is also a model. People performing at a club fetish show are also acting as models. Women who dance around rappers in music videos are models. Random, average-looking guy assembling furniture in an instructional DVD is a model. Anyone can be a model. The only difference is that some people are "professional models," and regularly make money from their modeling, while others are "hobbyist models," and rarely or never earn income that way. They are all models, regardless, and one type is not any more legitimate than the other.
Trade / paid / team . . . in Model Colloquy
Mike, I find myself in a similar situation. I live in a small town and most models I work with must drive 100 miles or more to do a shoot with me, most of which live in areas with may other photographers. It makes attracting models difficult. While I won't claim my portfolio is of professional quality or outstanding in any way, I've reached the point where working with most average looking wannabes with no experience simply will not improve my portfolio or provide me with images that are much use in other ways. I once booked a higher paid model and MUA. The model ended up canceling at the last minute, leaving me with a financial commitment to a MUA, I had no need for. Even if it had worked out, I'm not sure it would have been worth while. I figure I'm not going to use 3-4 shots max from a single model in my portfolio, so to make any notable improvement in my portfolio, is probably going to mean shooting at minimum of 3 notably better models. Let's say each shoot costs $500 for a MUA and model. (remember, they need to travel). What will that $1,500 expenditure really do? Models and MUAs improve the quality of the look of the subject matter. They do nothing to improve my photographic ability, equipment limitations, studio set limitations or editing abilities. That expenditure will do nothing to improve the qualify of the images of future shoots. It certainly hasn't shortened the distance models or clients must drive. All it will do it make my portfolio a little better. Also note, those 3 shoots or 9 images would cost more than all 4 of my AB lights which I'll use for hundreds of shoots. I face a similar question with a middle ground: Feeling like I was getting what I needed from trade anymore, I spent some time and effort at identifying a few models who were fairly new, and had done little if any paid work, but offered what I felt was a good look doing their own make up and offered them $30/hour plus images. The money in addition to images made traveling to me worthwhile over local trade shoots. It definitely meant less communication and better follow through compared to finding trade shoots, and for the first time in a while, I felt I had images that improved my portfolio, but not dramatically so. It resulted in more sellable microstock images as well. However, I don't feel the increased sales will even cover the increase cost of the model, so it's a loss in that respect, and as my portfolio has slowly gotten better over the years, I haven't been getting more shoots. I still am not a pro photographer and still live out in the boonies. It's something I'm still trying to figure out, but for the most part, I don't think investing a lot higher paid models and MUAs is something I'll ever get a pay back on. Attending a good workshop which could potentially improve the quality of all future shoots and provide a few good, different photos would probably be a better use of my funds. Rather than spend a notable chunk of change to have handful of better images, I'm more content to shoot models when I can do so affordably, and shoot something else when I can't. Another issue I've run into after having some better model photos, is that new, average looking models with no experience sometimes feel disappointed that the images I give them are not as good as the best images in my portfolio. It's awkward trying to explain that's because they are not nearly as good.... While our situations may be similar, no two situations or goals are identical. What makes sense to me, may not make sense for you, but I do hope a similar perspective helps you figure out what is right for you.
Reputable Modeling Agencies in Massachusetts in General Industry
Important information regarding Modeling Agencies in Massachussets: … setts.html DLS List of licensed employment agencies: DLS recommends that you call their office at (617) 626-6970 to verify an employment agency's status prior todoing business with them. --------------------------------------------------------- The following is a list of modeling agencies that are licensed with the DLS as employment agencies as of December 2011: 7313 Asian Boston Casting & Media P O Box 52137 Boston MA 617.275.4249 Leo Ballou 6059 Click Models of Boston, Inc. 222 Newbury St., Third Floor Boston MA 617.266.1100 Stefano D'Angola 6034 Copley Seven Models & Talent P. O. Box 170525 Boston MA 617.267.4444 Jo Somers 6054 Dynasty International Models & Talent Agency, Inc. 207 Newbury St., 3rd Floor Boston MA 617.536.7900 Joe & Ginger Freeman 7144 Heart & Soul Enterprises (Worldwide Modeling & Talent) 37 Cedar St, 2nd Floor Boston MA 617.516.4341 Jannie Pettway 6030 Maggie, Inc. 35 Newbury St., Suite 5 Boston MA 617.536.2639 Robert Casey ("Casey") 6070 Model Club, Inc. 329 Columbus Avenue, #2 Boston MA 617.247.9020 Ed Sliney/ Tim Ayers 7269 Spotlight Agency P.O. Box 6324 Boston MA 617.296.1580 8147 The Inej Agency LLC 254 Green Street, Suite 1 Brockton MA 508.454.1281 8031 Keen Agency, Inc. (The) 276 East Grove Street Clarks Summit PA 877.781.3180 Deborah Keen 6076 New York Model Management Scouting & Placement Co. P. O. Box 1461 Dudley MA 508.949.7700 Donna M. Sobieski Jenifer Teran Kay Walker Herbin 6067 Boston Agency (The) 9 Maple Avenue Haverhill MA 978.374.1528 6050 Cinderella Modeling Agency 50 Queen City Avenue Manchester NH 603.627.4125 Suzette Paradis 7100 New England Models Group, Inc. 55 South Commercial St., Unit #10 Manchester NH 603.624.0555 Kathleen Longsderff Dagny DiBona 5047 Model and Talent Management P.O. Box 600646 Newtonville MA 617.969.3555 7408 Port City Models P.O. Box 6820 Portland ME 207.415.4015 6025 Cameo Agency, Inc. (The) 683 Main Street Waltham MA 781.647.8300 7400 Signature Marketing, Inc. 28361 Diehl Road, Unit B #106 Warrenville IL 888.860.1999 8203 Berkshire Beauties LLC 2 Beach Hill Road West Stockbridge MA 413-2.32-.0232 Ogden Gigli 7037 Exxcel Model & Talent, Inc. 5500 Main Street, Ste. 104 Williamsville NY 617.275.7542 Susan Lunetta 6082 Karon Shea Model Management 65 Water Street Worcester MA 508.755.0662 Karon Shea
Finding Models in Photography Talk
Multiple answers: --find a really cool location or a great concept and then approach models about it. Believe it or not, most models really are suckers about creating art and fantastic photos or concepts that are fresh. Tell someone you'd like to do a shoot in a waterfall or with a vintage automobile with her as Bonnie (paired up with Clyde) or with a breeder of exotic animals (so she can pose with a trained cheetah) and you'll get some models who will be interested. --look at what models indicate they want to shoot. A model says she's in love with 1920's vintage...find an old Victorian or B&B you can get access to. A model wants to shoot with two hunky weight lifters holding her above their heads...go visit your local gym and start asking strong guys. There needs to be a "WIIFM" element here if you don't have a great rep as a photographer with a stellar portfolio. And approaching a model saying "that project you're so excited about? I want to shoot it with you!" is one way to get the WIIFM. --hire a professional model. There are plenty of traveling models who are total pros...they've been doing this for years, they probably form poses in their sleep, they work with all kinds of shooters. And it seems like Pennsylvania is a hotbed for a lot of very talented, capable, professional models. For instance, I've done a lot of shoots with Sera Ferron (who's near Harrisburg). Her schedule is tricky these days but she's a real gem...versatile, talented, athletic, a master with makeup, great with clothing and costume, beautiful, lots of artistic talent, has worked with a ton of great photographers, totally diva-free and outstanding at creating poses (either from her own insight or your direction). Just be willing to pay her and work with her schedule and you'll be a very happy photographer. So go find a model with a good rep, contact her pre-shoot and tell her lots of details...that you want to jazz up your portfolio and want a couple of different looks (so not just all glamour nudes of her in the same setting or contemporary fashion of her in the same outfit). There are a lot of traveling pros who, if they were told, "I"m going to pay you to pose for me and create a diverse shoot of your dreams" would jump for joy....they're so often taking direction from shooters ("we're going to shoot Z") that to let them create the shoot with multiple themes and poses is something most would have a blast doing. --I travel a lot. One obstacle I find is that when models find I'm not local, their "is this guy a traveling ax-murder?" radar goes off. So tags and references help a lot. And having local ones helps even more. So your first couple of models, it makes sense to tag each other and make sure you provide enough care and feeding of the relationship so she can serve as a reference. As others have been saying: when you have a portfolio that looks good with a range of themes, you'll get a lot more interest from models. And when you get some tags from models you've worked with, you're no longer an unknown. Ed
How does one become a paid model? in General Industry
There are a million ways you can make some non-specific amount of money that may or may not involve a picture or a few of yourself, ergo you "modelled" but, being that this is specifically a modelling/photography/Stylist site, and not a catch-all talent site, I tend to assume people are actually talking about modelling in the sense of being a model, not someone who is primarily something else but gets their picture taken once or twice and says they modelled FOR that. Acting is what got flo her job. She may appear in other things because she's NOW a celebrity, just like random celebrities grace the covers of fashion mags from time to time. That doesn't mean they're models, modelling is not what got them there, their OTHER talents are. They are something else, and they get their picture taken once in a while because of it. Models are models because they do modelling, modelling is what gets them their jobs. Standards may mean nothing to you personally, but in the world of getting paid as a freelance model on the internet standards absolutely apply to MOST, so they're very relevant and dangerous to just blow off with a "well I don't care bout no stinkin standards" attitude. Usually the people paying you (models) DO care, and if you don't fit them, you aint getting paid. In the way of standards in the modelling business, if she wants to make money she's going to have to MAKE herself fit those standards. How to go about doing that has been outlined already. If thats not something she wants to do, but still wants to make money, I hope she's a damn good singer or actress
Did I handle this correctly? in Model Colloquy
I'm going to start off by saying I've got Asperger's syndrome (if you don't know what that is, it vaguely means I have a lot of trouble communicating) so if you have any suggestions on what I should have done differently or anything like that, please explain. So someone contacted me for a vintage fashion shoot (which is weird, I don't get fashion work), I responded saying I was interested and asked for more information ("Do you have work on another website that I could look through? What is your availability? I noticed your profile says you're in *somewhere over the rainbow*. Do you know about when you will be in Denver?"). He said that he was busy but had open time slots for tonight, tomorrow, and the night after and asked me to leave a comment on his casting call because his "production manager she looks through those for available models that she want's me to shoot." I wasn't sure what that meant but I left a comment anyway. Then I said that I might be free tonight or tomorrow night, depending on if he could provide transportation and if I could make it work within my schedule (I had no shoots planned for those times, but I was planning on cleaning my house then so that could be worked around). I also said, "Would you mind giving me your list of references? I don't see any credits in your portfolio. How often do you work with MM models?" While I was waiting for him to respond I messaged the girl that left a TAG on his profile (it said something about how she enjoyed their shoot) and she messaged back saying she had a great time and they still talk a lot, but she needs to update her portfolio (I don't know why she said that, I never mentioned it being out of date. I went and looked at her profile again just barely and it has the new photos which I also thought was weird). Then he responded saying, "I work with MM models very often in fact shot on Sunday night... You can see in my tags on my profile from a model named *Britney Spears* It will be the most recent tag on my profile, You can see she really enjoyed working with me... If you would like I can provide her phone number you may call her." He also mentioned that he shoots a lot of nude, but doesn't put that in his profile since he does a lot of corporate work and doesn't want them to think of him as someone who shoots porn because they don't understand art. So I asked if he'd mind giving me several MM numbers, because I felt weird about just going off of *Britney Spears* since she had very few photos that hadn't been updated for a while. I don't know if I should have done it this way, but I said, "Would you mind giving me the MM numbers of a few other models you've worked with through Model Mayhem? I try to make a point of contacting several models every time I work with someone so I can better know what to expect. I find it helps me go into the shoot knowing more about the photographer and how he or she tends to work with models from the models' point of view." He gave me the MM# of *Britney Spears* again. We went back and forth a few times with me trying to find a better way of explaining exactly what I wanted and why, but he said, "i have a personal responsibility to protect those who i work with clients and models included. I give you that same promise. I have sent a message to a few other models requesting their permission. I will send you their info he they approve. If this is a deal killer i understand. Trust is very important to my work." I've never heard of someone not wanting anyone to hand out their MM#, but I figured it was because he's used to working with corporations and doesn't understand that models actually want more people to see their portfolios. So just in case, I did another Google search of his name and I kept finding other people, but I did find one place where he had left a TAG on a model's profile that said basically the same thing as his first correspondence with me, so I sent her a message asking her if she's worked with him and if she had how it was etc., and if not why not, but she hasn't answered. Then he called me and said that he was very busy and could only use one model for this project (I don't know why he said that, it seemed random to me). He asked if I knew I would for sure make it to our shoot, but I wasn't sure yet because I hadn't received any references and I didn't want to shoot in his hotel with less than a day's notice without references so I said something about how it was very late notice so I couldn't confirm yet, but I was working on fixing my schedule so I could fit it in. He said something I forgot and then "You're not good enough, goodbye," and hung up. Sorry I wrote a novel. I just don't know if I frustrated him or caused him to be upset by saying I couldn't confirm. I also don't know whether he was a real photographer that didn't understand references or if maybe he was trying to scam me or something and was trying to make me stop asking for them. But there's always the chance that I made a mistake in being pushy and possibly burned a bridge. Do you think I responded correctly? Is there some other way I should handle a similar situation in the future? What would you do if someone with a generic name and no credits that possibly doesn't understand how references work wanted to shoot with you? Edit: *Britney Spears* isn't actually the model's name. I didn't want to out anyone, so I put the first thing that came to mind. *Somewhere over the rainbow* is also not where the photographer lived. Again with the outing thing. Sorry for the confusion.
Mar 17- Riverside - St Paddy's Day Nude Bash - $80 in Events
Saturday, March 17 - Riverside - St. Paddy's Day Nude/Topless Bash - Only $80 "THE BEST DEAL IN PHOTODAYS" Type of shoot: Nude/Topless, 18+ only Date: Saturday, Mar 17 Time: Group shoot event from 11am to 2pm. Private one-on-one shoots from 2:30pm to 5:40pm Location: Beautiful Luxury Home in the Riverside area Food and non-alcoholic drinks will be served Escorts, husbands, boy/girlfriends, managers, body-guards and Aunt Tilly are all welcomed provided they pay the $80 fee! Photographers Instructions: Cost to attend is $80... or check out our REFERRAL REWARD PROGRAM: Bring a photographer that's never registered at any of our events and get 50% off of your admittance! or... Bring a model we've never seen (non-MM ok) and if she poses at the shoot, get 50% off. Model's photos must be submitted prior to the shoot. Please send to: Non refundable deposit of $40 via Paypal will reserve your spot. Please include your MM# and MM name to: (deposit will be refunded only in case of cancellation of the event)... pay the remaining $40 at the door. Please message me to make other payment arrangements. Models will be selling releases for the group shoot for no more than $20 each. For private one-on-one shoots between 2:30pm and 5:40pm, you may book your favorite model(s) participating in this event in 30 minute increments. Time Slots 2:30 - 3:00 pm 3:10 - 3:40 pm 3:50 - 4:20 pm 4:30 - 5:00 pm 5:10 - 5:40 pm Contact/pm models directly with your request and for their rates including model release. You may bring 1 strobe or your speedlight. Save your spot now. Our last 6 events sold out and so will this one. We have some great models on tap for this shoot! Links to previous events: Oct 29, 2011 Sept 17, 2011 July 23, 2011 June 11, 2011 April 30,2011 Model's Instructions: ***Free admission. No charge for models!*** In order to participate in this shoot you must agree to pose at least topless during the group shoot... art, glamour themes. Please do your own hair and makeup. You may sell model releases for no more than $20. For one-on-one private shoots you set your rates, including model release, with photographer. To participate in private one-on-one shoots you must pose for the group shoot. You will be provided a safe, friendly, fun work environment. If you want to be a part of this group event please let me know asap because I expect the model slots to fill quickly, since I'm only looking for 10 models. If you (model/photographer) have any questions or concerns please feel free to message me. Let's have a fun shoot and create some great images.
So few Models in General Industry
I think they must be talking about a specific kind of modeling, too. My regular job is as a figure model. True, when people ask me what I do, I say I'm a FIGURE model (I don't just say I'm a model, because the connotations are different). But yeah--I model for a damn living (and man, I WISH I made 42,000 a year!). Figure modeling is modeling, it's just a specific kind of modeling. Also, both actors and models do television commercials--how do they separate who defines themselves as what? And are they counting glamour models? Models in the adult industry? Considering they seem to think a model is only a real model if you've seen a billboard with them on it, probably not. American Apparel often uses their own shop girls in their advertising. I guess girls who work at American Apparel are more "real" models than, well, real models.
Group Shoot Events - March 10th, 2012 Southern, CA in Events
Follow us on all of our networks Our Official Website Our Facebook Page Our Twitter Page Our Meetup Page Video footage of our recent event: Naughty Vixens Day ~ 20+ Naughty Vixen Models going all out for you in there sexy naughty outfits. If you are a saint, this event might be to much for you to handle Theme: Naughty Vixens Day (Swimwear & Nude Models) When: Saturday March 10th, 2011 from 10:00am to 6pm Where: Private Residence in Woodland Hills, CA # of Models: 20+ (Swimwear & Nude Models) Food: Food & drinks will be provided Meet & Greet: 11am to 11:30am Group Shoot: 11:30am to 2:30pm Mini Break: 2:30pm to 2:50pm Private 1:1's: 2:50pm to 6pm Photographer Cost: $100. ($50.00 Deposit or Full Payment to reserve your spot) Book your own 1:1's with the model directly ~ (Pre-booking is strongly encouraged) Model Release agreements will be provided No Boyfriend/Assistants (unless they pay the entry fee) Refund Policy: No refunds. If you can't attend, we will credit your payment to the next event. Click Button To Register (Registrations must be done by March 9th) [img][/img] One on One time slots: (1)2:50 pm - 3:20 pm (2)3:30 pm - 4:00 pm (3)4:10 pm - 4:40 pm (4)4:50 pm - 5:20 pm (5)5:30 pm - 6:00 pm 2:1 Model to Photographer Ratio Model/Photographer Rotation to assure equal time You may bring 2 strobes or your Speedlights for the indoor shoots Outside the residency, natural light, etc Model Info: Free admission Must participate in group shoot in order to sell 1:1's Must pose swimwear or lingerie in group shoot You may sell model releases for no more than $10, $20 for nudes Set your rates for 1:1 shoots & release agreements with the photographer Model Release agreements will be provided No escorts (unless they pay the photographer fee) We just completed our 1st fun & exciting event of 2012 & we are looking to top it with this one. Surprise announcements will be announced in the next days to come. Thread Link to our recent event: Video footage of our recent event: Models or Photographers with any questions, please email me @ [img][/img] [img][/img] [img][/img] [img][/img] [img][/img] Model Lineup Click on models image to contact them for 1on1 rates Jennz Mayz [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Nicole Ponder [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Lacy [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Valerie Hope [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Marie Cruz [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Carol Seleme [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Implied Nude Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Ashley Marie [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Brianna Nicole [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Alexis Nichole [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Swimwear Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Mandee Varela [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Swimwear Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Miss Les ~ Pre-book her before all her slots are filled. [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) (1)2:50 pm - 3:20 pm (2)3:30 pm - 4:00 pm (3)4:10 pm - 4:40 pm (4)4:50 pm - 5:20 pm (5)5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Olivia Morgan Price [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Implied Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Diana Ochoa [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Naomi Herold [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Katie [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Tabitha Easley [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Shaunae Stovall [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Lyna Ly [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Ela Passion [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Implied Nudes Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Chanel D [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm Lilu H [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:50 pm - 3:20 pm 2) 3:30 pm - 4:00 pm 3) 4:10 pm - 4:40 pm 4) 4:50 pm - 5:20 pm 5) 5:30 pm - 6:00 pm MORE MODELS WILL BE ADDED SHORTLY
Valentines Theme - February 11th, 2012 Tarzana, Ca in Events
Valentines Theme event which will take place in a 5,000+ sqft private residence in Tarzana, Ca. Come create unique images with gorgeous glamour models. Theme:Valentines Day Theme (Swimwear & Nude Models) When: Saturday February 11th, 2011 from 10:00am to 6pm Where: 5,000+ sqft Private Residence in Tarzana, CA (address will be provided to attendees) # of Models: 20+ (Swimwear & Nude Models) Food: Food & drinks will be provided Meet & Greet: 10am to 11am Group Shoot: 11am to 2:30 pm Private 1:1's: 2:45pm to 6pm Photographer Cost: $100 ($50 deposit, pay balance upon arrival) Book your own 1:1's with the model directly Model Release agreements will be provided No Boyfriend/Assistants (unless they pay the $100 entry fee) Refund Policy: No refunds. If you can't attend, we will credit your payment to the next event. Click Register Button Image To Register must be done by February 10th, 2012 [img][/img] Model Info: Free admission Must participate in group shoot in order to sell 1:1's Must pose swimwear or lingerie in group shoot You may sell model releases for no more than $10, $20 for nudes Set your rates for 1:1 private shoots & release agreements with photographer Model Release agreements will be provided No escorts (unless they pay the photographer fee) Models or Photographers with any questions, please email me @ 1on1 booking time slots: 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm [b]Location Pics: [img][/img] [img][/img] [img][/img] [img][/img] [img][/img] [img][/img] [img][/img] Model Lineup Click on models image to contact them for 1on1 rates Tabitha Easley [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Carol Seleme [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Implied Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Daisy Ann [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Swimwear Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Jamie Michelle [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Angel Bates [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Arley Elizabeth [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Implied Topless Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Ela Passion [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Implied Nudes Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Olivia Morgan Price [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Implied Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Lorena Lopez [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Gezzilyn Leon [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Siray Kong [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Claudia Khalil [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Scarlet Starr [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Nordique Fier [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Amelia Simone [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Annie Violet [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Kristin Barcelona [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Vanessa Sheri [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Nude Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Tracie Douglas [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Genesis - Fresh face to the modeling scene [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Kathy Elizabeth [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Roxie Lian [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Cedestoni Salazar [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Nikita Penalosa [img][/img] 1:1 Session Times (Lingerie Limit) 1) 2:45-3:15 pm 2) 3:30-4:00 pm 3) 4:15-4:45 pm 4) 5:00-5:30 pm 5) 5:30-6:00 pm Additional models will be added shortly
Sports Bikes & Sexy girls in Events
On the 2/26/12 i will be hosting the Sports Bikes & Sexy girls photo shoot event. Location: PM Prestige Motoring,inc. 8545 Arjons Dr Suit P. San Diego, CA 92126 Description Happy to announce my new event: Sport Bikes & Sexy girls Hello to all Photographers, Models, MUA & Hair Stylist!!! This up coming event is all about motorcycle and beautiful models. Its another great opportunity for photographers & models to build an amazing portfolio in just one day. If you already come to one of my events- you know its fun and you know you will have a great day!! You will be able to work 1 on 1 - and im sure the pics will be HOT!!! All you need to do is to come with great attitude and a big smile!!! The event will take place in a very cool Motorcycle Show room at: PM Prestige Motoring,inc. Located at - 8545 Arjons Dr Suit P. San Diego, CA 92126 ( off Miramar Rd) I will have about 10-12 Sport bike such as : Yamaha R-6 , R-1 Suzuki 600 & 750 Honda Kawasaki ZX 62 Harley Davidson Photo shoot info: This event will be divided to 2 sessions First session: 10:30 am - 2:30 pm Models : I will have 2 MUA & 2 Hair stylist Please show up on time. I have a limit of 10 models!! Outfits: Bikini, Lingerie, jeans, leather Jackets- to make it simple: what ever you like!!! Photographers: We will start at 11:30 until 2:30 please arrived by 11 am. I have a limit of 15 photographers **** Photographers please note: i will have 2 pro nude model in every session. if interested to shoot with the nude models- please let me know and i will forward you pics of models. its $75 per hour per photographer. its a closed section with full privacy. Second session: 3pm- 6pm Models: Please come at 2pm for Make up & Hair I will have 2 MUA & 2 Hair stylist I have a limit of 10 models!! Outfits: Bikini, Lingerie, jeans, leather Jackets- to make it simple: what ever you like!!! Photographers: We will start at 3pm until 6pm please arrived by 11 am. I have a limit of 15 photographers **** Photographers please note: i will have 2 pro nude model in every session. if interested to shoot with the nude models- please let me know and i will forward you pics of models. its $75 per hour per photographer. its a closed section with full privacy. Cover Fee: Models: Free but tips for the MUA & Hair Stylist will be much appreciated photographers: $40 Like every event: I will have cold drinks, Fruits, snacks & chocolates. Now- if you read until here - great just go and RSVP Thanks Simo Pinto
Posing nude/Topless/Implied in General Industry
Well, many of the models I worked with already had no issues with topless/nudity. They had made that choice for them selves long before they decided to "model." Others looked at modeling as a way to explore aspects of themselves and society. For others, it didn't make a hill of beans of difference They just did it. No "baggage." On the other hand, models who are "shy", I remember something one of the old time photographers said. "It's not modesty, but vanity that keeps a woman in her clothes." That's as far as I go with it. As for "resistance" .... that's a whole other story. I don't push people to do things. In fact, I make them beg I do my best to talk new models out of posing nude, doing "fetish" or anything like that. I have a few pretty good speaches for new models, which if they still want to model after them, well.... they've been warned Nude modeling of any sort is a *BIG* decision, one that will stay with you your whole life -- and beyond. The images *WILL* be seen by people, and will pop up at the WORST times. The more you do, the more chances there are. What you do at 18 and 19 will pop up when you are 30 and have kids in school. Face recognition software is absolutely scary! We let picassa go through our collection of phots spanning the past 40 years,and the picks it made of people during those 40 years was mind blowing! It even found familial relations between people we don't think look anything alike at all! Feature for feature there is nothing similar. So, imagine what it will be like in a few more years! Don't let anyone talk you into doing something. Don't think just because "everyone" else is doing it, you should. Look around you. If you don't see it in your daily life, at home, at work, on the street, etc than everyone is *NOT* doing it, and it's only on-line in a small closed off group like MM you see it. So, "shy" models, is one thing. _RESISTANT_ models are completely another. Remember, there really is no "issue" for a photographer shooting naked women in the most disgusting, revealing, or compromising poses. They are "heroes" with their buddies, and "the man" among their friends. On the other hand, the girl who did the photos is not as quite well revered. She has to live with them as a constant reminder of what she did -- and how OTHER PEOPLE will look at them over the years. That's the reality. It's far, far different than the "cool" factor of doing nudes. The way I look at it, is if I have to ask more than once (eg: I do nudes. If you want to work with me, I do nudes.) than I really need to find a different model. I'm looking for trouble, and potentially causing trouble for the model. That said, I *have* worked with hundreds of nude models over the years, and many have modeled only for me, and no one else. Many have worked on an idea, or a project they felt was interesting, or they wanted some photos to mark a phase of their life, and that was it. Nothing more. On the flip side, I've lost count of even an estimate of the number of people I've talked out of doing nudes, and I sleep better because of it. There have been people I never got to photograph who I wanted to more than anything.... but it didn't happen, or it wasn't right. Again. I sleep well at night. Scott
Shooting Sexy Swimwear Models In Borneo :-) in Photography Talk
Pre Production Casting for the right model. A few days ago i held my casting for the Borneo shoot in London. There were models coming from every top London agency. Over 2.5 hours I looked at 52 different models in swimwear or their undies and their books, I also took very simple front, side back full length and close up shots of each girl so I could send them to my client to get their opinions of who they liked, its a good way of remember each model as they are with out fancy make up or styling, if a model looks good this way you can be sure she will for the shoot, also you get an idea of how they move and hold them selves for the camera (not comments please), and a little about their personality, but unfortunately I did not see one that I thought was right, so I began scouring the models agencies around the world, we are going to have to fly our models in any way so it would make little difference to the budget if we flew a model in from NY LA Paris London or where ever... There are several things to take into account when selecting a model for swimwear. Body shape has to be perfectly toned and a good shape, no fake excessively big boobs, a perfect uk size 8 to 10, with 34b/c cup boobs c22 to 24in waist and 34 to 36in hips, height around 5ft 8in to 5ft 10in tall. Good even clear skin tone that will not burn in the sun in 10 mins so olivey colored skin is perfect. Healthy shinny hair. The models figure size is dictated by the manufacturers swimwear samples sizes. My model look brief for the shoot was healthy fun loving healthy living beach girl that spends a lot of her life on the beach, sort of surfer girl that's quietly sexy and confident in herself and loving life to the full. As it happened I had made contact with a perfect model for the shoot through an art director that I know in New York, he recommended I look at XXXXXX XXXXXX. PERFECT choice I thought. At first I thought my client would not pay the fees she wanted but after a little persuading about how perfect she would be for their brand and presenting a few videos and images of her, my client said yes, we will use her. She is now booked for this shoot. My client decided that we will shoot a second collection whilst there so I also need to select a second model. I had chosen a really lovely girl to propose to the client that I have shot before but my client though her a little too sexy for the first collection but thought her to be perfect for the second collection. She is also now booked for the second shoot. So my 2 day swimwear shoot is now a 4 day shoot and I am very pleased to get an extended trip and two jobs to charge for. I will write about the process that occurred before the casting another day, also about all of the logistics, flights, checking out the what which where and how re shooting in Borneo. Its not as straight forward as you may thing. Sorry to be so secretive regarding the models it sort of client confidence thing until their images are published its not such a good idea to splash the models a client wants to use around the world. i hope you understand.. You will find out eventually. :-) Keep coming back for more and please post your questions. My best regards Bruce Smith MORE TO COME..
Is it wrong to charge a deposit in Photography Talk
Is it wrong to charge a deposit? Wrong? Probably not. Constructive? Also probably not. Some thoughts in random order: >>> You went 0 out of 7. The common denominator is you. Couldn't that indicate that there is something you are doing / offering that makes it easy for models to flake on you? <----- Two no-shows in 18 years. >>> I missed the part where you check these models out (e.g. checked references). Perhaps you need to be more selective. >>> Many models, especially the reliable ones, will find the deposit scheme unfair & inequitable. The most common complaint by photographers is similar to this thread: "Why are models flaking on me?" The most common complaint by models is this: "How long do I have to wait for the photographs from the TF* session?" So, if a deposit scheme is your solution, I would think that a "fair" deposit scheme would go like this... ... Photographer & model agree to work together. ... Model gives photographer a $25 deposit. ... This deposit is refunded to the model as soon as she shows up. ... Photographer & model work together. ... Photographer gives model a $100 deposit. (*) See note. ... Photographer delivers the promised images in the promised format. ... Model refunds the $100 deposit. (*) The photographer's deposit is larger than the model's because... ... Usually the photographer has a greater financial stability than the model, ... At this point, the session is done & the work has been completed. If the model flakes, no work has taken place. My guess is that many photographers would be happy to receive a deposit from a model, but few would be happy to give a deposit to a model. Yet, to me, this scheme is the only one that seems fair.
South FLA Beach Shoot - 5/4-5/6, Miami Beach in Events
I am pleased to announce our FIRST South Florida Beach Shoot. I have held SIX Arizona Desert Shoots in the past and this will be organized and run in a similar manner. I have done a "dry run" for this last year with a Florida based model while on vacation so that it would go in a smoothe and well run fashion. It is a visual feast for the eyes! Arrival day will be Friday, May 4. We will be headquartered in a hotel on Ft. Lauderdale Beach. Arrive on Friday in the afternoon in time for our fun Meet and Greet Reception @ 6pm RIGHT on the beach. Or arrive earlier and enjoy the Florida sun at the beach or pool. TWO DAYS of beach shooting is planned. We will visit TWO beaches each day (Saturday AND Sunday) in the nearby Miami Beach area. World famous legal nude Haulover Beach, South Beach and two additional ones in the nearby area; Oleta State Park and Virginia Key. We will even stop by and shoot at Jimbo's. on of the most interesting locations in the area. If you want some really outside of the box shots,this place is awesome. Old abandoned cars, trucks, trailers, neon colored buildings, grafitt; sort of industrial "grunge" by he bay. Google it. It is very interesting and many years ago it alsow as a legal nude beach. Now is is just "unofficiallly" nude....and some awesome views of the bay. Models will be posing up to FULL NUDE where appropriate; otherwise swim suit, topless, and implied.It is said that topless is now legal on ALL beaches in Dade County (Miami). Haulover Beach is a LEGALLY NUDE beach! Saturday night will be available for some private 1:1 boudoir shooting with our models in at the hotel suite. The models will be available up to FULL NUDE! All the models are familiar with the locations. It will be FUN and a memorable time for all that attend. Spectacular models, Spectacular scenery and a LOT of fun......You DO NOT WANT TO MISS THIS- I assure you! This event will be limited to only TEN photographers. Sign up NOW to assure your spot on this AWESOME EVENT. There are only a few spots left..Models will be assigned as needed with a minimum of 2:1 ratio- photographer/ models i.e. Four Photogs--Two Models, Six Photogs-Three models, Eight photogs-Four models: SCHEDULED MODELS: [img][/img] Cristal Catalina: [img][/img] Mika: [img][/img] Crissy lin: [img][/img] Jen Capone: [img][/img] Audrey Baker: Separate 1:1 Indoor Boudoir Lingerie/ Nude at Hotel Suite on Saturday Evening All models available up to FULL NUDE. One hour 1:1 session-$100 One half hour-$60 PHOTOGRAPHER FEE- $349 PayPal: * Includes Friday Evening Meet & Greet, TWO DAYS Beach Shooting with Models, UP TO EIGHT FULL HOURS of Shooting on several different beach locations RT Transportation both days to/ from beach locations and hotel, snacks, refreshments at hotel location. **NOT included are RT transportation to Ft. Lauderdale, hotel acoomodations, additional meals, transportation from airport/ hotel / airport ***Most models are also available for additional shooting in the area on Monday/ Tuesday. Details to be discussed individually with the models. Any questions/ help-Please write or call: Rick Pickert 414.988.9747
Sexy Sports Theme Shoot - 1/28/12 Irvine, CA in Events
Have you ever wanted to shoot HOT and beautiful models like the ones you see in Maxim, FHM, or other men magazines? Do you have a DSLR but don't know how to take awesome pictures like the magazines? Have you seen those wonderful cheerleaders as you watch you favorite sports? Join us in this amazing Sport Theme Shoot!! We have a limit of 18 photographers so sign up now or be left out! For those who haven't been to our events, we are the #1 theme group shoot event in Orange County. Photographers from Los Angeles, OC, Inland Empire attending our events. We are novice friendly! As many of the past photographer can tell you, Sammy and myself will be available to all beginners as to how to take properly exposed photo. Keep in mind, this isn't a workshop on photography so we won't be going through all the details. Instead, we will assist the beginners using the studio or speedlite light to capture the photo correctly. Preparations: - Photographer should have prior knowledge on how to adjust their camera in manual mode. You'll need to know how to adjust aperture, shutter speed and ISO. - If you have lighting equipment, we suggest you bring them. - If you are planning on bring backdrop, please contact me because space is limited. During the group shoot session, you will have an opportunity to shoot all the beautiful models to see which one you wish to work with more. Many of the models are pre-booked before the event. You can contact them directly either email or on (their MM number are posted with their photo). We encourage you to book them ahead of time because the more popular the model, the faster they'll book all their slots. Book models for 1 on 1 shoots at 1/2 hour increments Checkout the models awesome sexy photos on Model Mayhem site just look up their MM#. Message the models and see if you can hire the model you want after the group event for 1 on 1 sessions. You will have private session with the model of you choice especially if you have a concept in mind, or models may have a specialty which you may be interested in shooting i.e. pinup art. Sign them up before it's all gone... Private Session starting: 2:00pm-2:30 pm 2:40pm-3:10 pm 3:20pm-3:50pm 4:00pm-4:30pm 4:40pm-5:10pm 5:20pm-5:50pm Details: Date: Saturday January 28th Time: 10am to 5:50pm. The main event is from 10am to 1:30pm. Lunch is served at 1:30pm. From 2-5:50pm you can reserve the model of your choice for 1 on 1 sessions at 1/2 hour increments. Model: 8 - 10 professional models NO friend, boyfriend, husband, wife, kids, assistant! But if you absolutely need to bring someone, they will have to pay, no exception! Information are subject to change. Keep checking back for updates with models Confirmed and attending MODELS: Photos coming soon! Tiffy Mac Mayhem #2247765 Emma Mayhem # 2426627 Yentiza Mayhem #892785 Tara Mayhem# 68424 Sandy MM#1328206 Sarah MM# 2273662 Annika MM#1257953
Why Does Height Matter? in Model Colloquy
No we are not the exception to the rule. On the contrary; all the day in day out stuff showroom stuff and small shows; is done by fitting models with maybe a spattering of agency models. Unless it is London fashion week you just don't see the agency or top fashion models. I have not had an exceptional career just pretty normal journeyman stuff. With boutiques; young and new designers; college fashion shows etc - and all the good ones do little shows - the normal thing is models like us; no way could they afford agency models but they want a liitle experience. Provincially the boutique shows can pay really well because they basically want a couple of good models to help girls with little experience but can't afford agency models. This is most of the paid journeyman fashion work; not the high fly glamour stuff people see a couple of weeks a year in the magazines. There are four divisions below the premier league in soccer and dozens of regional leagues below that but it employs most professional footballers; even if they don't get a fraction of the money the premiership players are on. It is the same in fashion. Every now and again one of those players may get the chance with a premiership side. I think the problem here is that people think 'fashion show' and they think the big designers; Milan shows etc. That is a very small % of paid work in fashion shows; and then you will get exclusively tall girls but even then you will get the odd Kate Moss. So does she look silly next to the 6ft models? I have never come across a tall fitting model actually. As I stated my flatmates partner much shorter than me also did a lot of fitting modelling. It is the stats they want; and for the clothes to look good; enormous patience and input and the ability to model. So when they have done something you have to do your stuff then they make the alterations. In lingerie that is very important. If the stuff is designed on you it is going to look better on your than anyone so that is why they use fitting models in showroom (private shows for a few clients) and in runway shows. I agree that taller girls get all the agency work. But not fitting; and fiitting is what an awful lot of us do; but you have to be in a metropolis famous for fashion. London is. So the idea of a 5ft 11" template isn't right. I have done other fitting not just lingerie too. A 5ft 11" model may float a dress down the runway better but that doesn't mean it was made on someone her height; and to the eye of someone who does this work I think one can sometimes tell. Especially when they haven't much of a bust. And yes size 3 (UK 8/10) is a US size 4. That is the truth Shon. Below the tip of the iceberg of fashion height is still a factor but not so much. And Model Mayhem is generally going to be pretty much below the tip of the iceberg; but plenty of the journeyman paid work. Don't get me wrong; height is still a factor but stats and shape (and each designer has different requirements) can be more important. And yes of course; if you are shorter as a fitting model be prepared to stand in 6" heels day in day out. I think part of the problem here is that many of the fashion photographers only see the top of the fashion iceberg and judge everything by that.
Souuth FLA Beach Shoot-5/4-5/6=Ft lauderdale in Events
Guys! These are the dates of our planned South Florida Beach Shoot . Arrival day will be Friday, May 4. We will be headquartered in a hotel in Ft. Lauderdale. Airfares are very attractive to Ft. Lauderdale and with a medium sized airport, much easier to ger in/out of. Direct flights from most major cities should be plentiful and competitively priced. Arrival on Friday mid afternoon in time for our Meet and Greet Reception @ 6pm. The hotel is RIGHT on the beach or if you prefer there are others in the immediate area.You can reach the hotel by taxi or shuttle bus from the airport. TWO DAYS of beach shooting is planned. Two beaches each day (Saturday AND Sunday) in the nearrby Miami Beach area. World famous legal nude Haulover Beach, South Beach( South Point) and two additional ones in the nearby area, Oleta State Park and Virginia Key.Models will be posing up to PENTHOUSE NUDE where appropriate; otherwise swim suit, topless,and implied. Saturday night will be available for some private 1:1s with our models in at the hotel suite. The models will be available up to Penthouse/ Met Art styles....Ooh la la!. I have personally done a "recon" of the beaches and area last June on a top secret mission with an Florida based model ... All the models are familiar with the loactions. It will be FUN and a memorable time for all that attend. Spectacular models, Spectacular scenery and a LOT of fun......You DO NOT WANT TO MISS THIS- I assure you! This event will be limited to only EIGHT photographers.Sign up NOW to assure your spot on this AWESOME EVENT. There are only a few spots left. A $100 DEPOSIT will hold your spot. You can pay the balance up to 30 days prior to the shoot..Models will be assigned as needed with a minimum of 2:1 ratio- photographer/ models i.e. Four Photogs--Two Models, Six Photogs-Three models, Eight photogs-Four models: SCHEDULED MODELS: [img][/img] Mia Corday: [img][/img] APS Captive: [img][/img]Crissy lin:[img][/img] Galas: [img][/img] Jen Capone: Separate 1:1 Indoor Boudoir Lingerie/ Nude at Hotel Suite on Saturday Evening All models available up to Penthouse Style. One hour 1:1 session-$100 One half hour-$60 PHOTOGRAPHER FEE- $349 RSVP Secured with $100 deposit PayPal: * Includes Friday Evening Meet & Greet, TWO DAYS Beach Shooting with Models, RT Transportation both days to/ from beach locations, snacks, refreshments at hotel location. **NOT included are RT transportation to Ft. Lauderdale, hotel acoomodations, additional meals, transportation from airport/ hotel / airport ***Most models are also available for additional shooting in the area on Monday/ Tuesday. Details to be discussed individually with the models. Any questions/ help/ recommendations or anything-Please write or call: Rick Pickert 414.988.9747
Model Release Please? in Photography Talk
I think two separate, but similar, issues are being confused. One is permission for the photographer to edit an image of the model, and the other is permission for licensees to edit the photographer's final work. The language in a typical model release does not give the model permission to alter the image. A model release usually contains language that allows the photographer to modify or distort the model's image. This makes it clear that the photographer can remove a mole, smooth skin, even change eye color. Without said language the model might make a case that she only gave permission to use a true and un-edited version of her image. Generally, the photographer owns the copyright to the image. Copyright law generally forbids people form modifying a copyrighted work without the copyright holder's permission. It is not uncommon for a usage license to reinforce this idea by including language that prohibits the licensee from modifying the work. To summarize: In many (but not all) jurisdictions, the model has the ability to place certain restrictions on the use of her likeness, and the copyright holder can place certain restrictions on the reproducing or commercial use of an image. For "commercial" use of an image, one generally needs permission from both the photographer and the model. General industry practice is for the photographer to obtain the model's assignable permission at the time of the shoot (this is what the "mode release" is for). The photographer than assigns that permission to the client when he gives them the usage license. If the photographer wants to commercially use an image, he only needs the model's permission (model release) as he is already the copyright holder. If the model want's to use the image commercially, or reproduce the image, she only needs the photographer's permission (usage license) as she already has the rights to her likeness. The model release is pertains to using the model's likeness. The Usage license pertains to use of a copyrighted image. The above is of course a gross simplification as to how it works in much of the world. In some areas a model release is usually not required. In some areas the photographer is not the natural copyright holder, and the specific details of a particular situation may outweigh the generalities. By "commercial use" I mean usage that would typically require a model release (the legal definition of "commercial use" is not the same as the common sense definition.) Always consult a competent local attorney for reliable legal advice. Never trust legal advice you get from the web.
Ever had a paid model... in General Industry
It should all be discussed prior to the shoot and the model should understand exactly what is expected of them and acknowledge that fact. You should send them a confirmation email before the shoot stating what the terms are of your shoot for them to sign and send back to you. If they don't then cancel the shoot because they obviously don't have a clue what this industry is about. This is applicable both to amateur and professional alike. Your model release should be worded well enough so it is easy for them to understand what it pertains to and cover all usages such as portfolio, print, web, design, time, area and make sure they sign and date it before you start shooting. Personally, I don't understand why photographers who have paid models to sit for them then give them access to the images. They have no right to the images. They've been paid. Essentially you are paying the model to shoot their book for them. How dumb is that? Why don't you just get a gun and shoot yourself because it'll be quicker. All that happens is that models start putting themselves on a pedestal and demeaning the value of the work. The point they miss is that this is a symbiotic relationship. Models who try to throw their self importance around are a ball ache and should be avoided. They are not your little princess. They are not going to go out with you because you are nice to them. Think about how much you invest in time, effort, equipment and cost and then compare it to what the model is bringing to the table. The majority of girls on here are not models is the sense of agency girls. They are amateurs who don't have the experience nor the look that will really extend your own look very far yet some of them are trying to charge lawyeresque fees because they had a mate take some snaps of them in their undies. Unfortunately today's society supports the idea that being center of attention and getting naked is enough to have your cake and eat it. Added to this is a large number of amateur 'photographers' who are so ridiculously sycophantic in their submission to average models that it's hardly any wonder why egos are so massively out of proportion. What ever level of photographer you are have respect for your subject but have equal respect for yourself and your work. I wouldn't expect experienced models to shoot for nothing with entry level photographers but it's highly unlikely they would anyway but on the other hand new models shouldn't expect to walk straight into a world they don't understand with their hands out. The phrase 'this is how I make my living' is applicable to both photographers and models so cancels it out, in my opinion, despite my overheads and effort being exponentially more. Models who tell me of their student woes get my own woes back regarding my tax bill. At the end of the day it's the individual's choice but as long as egos get fed, photographers pay for substandard models and nobody educates the poorly educated misunderstandings will occur.
Jan 28 - Riverside - 10 Nude/Topless Models - $80 in Events
Saturday, Jan 28 - Riverside - 10 Nude/Topless Models #1 - Only $80 "THE BEST DEAL IN PHOTODAYS" Type of shoot: Nude/Topless, 18+ only Date: Saturday, Jan 28 Time: Group shoot event from 12pm to 3pm. Private one-on-one shoots from 3:15pm to 6:25pm Location: Beautiful Luxury Home in the Riverside area Food and non-alcoholic drinks will be served Escorts, husbands, boy/girlfriends, managers, body-guards and Aunt Tilly are all welcomed provided they pay the $80 fee! Photographers Instructions: Cost to attend is $80... or check out our REFERRAL REWARD PROGRAM: Bring a photographer that's never registered at any of our events and get 50% off of your admittance! or... Bring a model we've never seen (non-MM ok) and if she poses at the shoot, get 50% off. Model's photos must be submitted prior to the shoot. Please send to: Non refundable deposit of $40 via Paypal will reserve your spot. Please include your MM# and MM name to: (deposit will be refunded only in case of cancellation of the event)... pay the remaining $40 at the door. Please message me to make other payment arrangements. Models will be selling releases for the group shoot for no more than $20 each. For private one-on-one shoots between 3:15pm and 6:25pm, you may book your favorite model(s) participating in this event in 30 minute increments. Time Slots 3:15 - 3:45 pm 3:55 - 4:25 pm 4:35 - 5:05 pm 5:15 - 5:45 pm 5:55 - 6:25 pm Contact/pm models directly with your request and for their rates including model release. You may bring your own lighting equipment. Pocket Wizards and/or speedlights recommended. I'll have 2 pocket wizards for rent, please contact me to reserve one. Save your spot now. Our last 6 events sold out and so will this one. We have some great models on tap for this shoot! Links to previous events: Oct 29, 2011 Sept 17, 2011 July 23, 2011 June 11, 2011 April 30,2011 Model's Instructions: ***Free admission. No charge for models!*** In order to participate in this shoot you must agree to pose at least topless during the group shoot... art, glamour themes. Please do your own hair and makeup. You may sell model releases for no more than $20. For one-on-one private shoots you set your rates, including model release, with photographer. To participate in private one-on-one shoots you must pose for the group shoot. You will be provided a safe, friendly, fun work environment. If you want to be a part of this group event please let me know asap because I expect the model slots to fill quickly, since I'm only looking for 10 models. If you (model/photographer) have any questions or concerns please feel free to message me. Let's have a fun shoot and create some great images.
Where are my fellow plus-size models!? in Model Colloquy
It is because magazines and designers are using plus models in many heights and sizes. Examples can be Plus Model Magazine (they did a spread on models who are paid and wear an 18+, here is a blog link … us-models/), Monif C., Dereon, and Just As You Are. Sure there are many more. Sometimes too Alternative Models as I guess you would call them, are all shapes and sizes. They model for designers such as Domino Dollhouse or Pin Up Girl Clothing. People see them in Pin Up or Nudes as well. I mean it is confusing. Consumers of plus size fashion believe why are their models modeling their clothes if they don't even shop in the stores? Clear example of this photo. Of course there is not denying she is gorgeous, but read the comments. … mp;theater But, I am sure that is the way with just fashion too. Even so this article depicts what someone was really trying to find out about this plus size industry. It all depends on the designer of the fashions. … %E2%80%9D/ “I wish I knew who exactly was determining the size of plus-size models. Whenever I ask a brand, they tell me the agencies don’t have high-caliber bigger models. When I speak to agencies, they tell me that the clients are calling for smaller models, so I’m not exactly sure what is going on. All I know is that I can’t get a clear answer from anyone.” or maybe this quote from Tim Gunn... "Have you seen most of the plus-size sections out there? It’s horrifying. Whoever’s designing for plus-size doesn’t get it. The entire garment needs to be reconceived. You can’t just take a size 8 and make it larger. In my travels, I’ve been an advocate for larger women. I’ve been talking to designers, but only a half-dozen make an effort. Most say, ‘I don’t want a woman who’s a size 10 or 11 wearing my clothes.’ Well, shame on you! It’s not realistic. We need to address real women with real needs." Seriously, just like MM, no clear answer. So who is really to say? This argument will go on and on. Anyway, good luck Amanda on your modeling ventures.
Breaking a Model Down to Get the Shot in Photography Talk
Hi Guys! One dispute that seems to come up for me, over the years that I’ve been a fashion photographer, is the treatment of the models. Or better still, what to do with a model who isn’t giving you what you need. So here’s the dilemma: you cast a girl who you think fits the look you’re going for on a particular shoot. You organize the team, putting together the best hair stylist, make up artist and stylist for the job. You rent or find the location. You go over and over the details with your team before you even get to the set. You leave no stone unturned: all the details are complete. You’re finally ready to shoot and the girl just won’t emote. You’re playing her iPod, everyone is happy to be there and in a creative mood, food has been offered and eaten. And the girl just won’t give it up! What do you do? You can watch the video from the post on my blog: … -the-shot/ I have a dear friend in the industry who has been doing this as long as I have and he and I have completely opposite viewpoints on this. I won’t say he’s famous for being a “screamer” but he’s one of these photographers that will definitely get angry with the model if she isn’t emoting or giving him what he needs to get the shot. He’s been known to make the models cry or have them walk off set to call their agents. His take is that he’s put all this work in to the shoot to create exactly what he wants and if the model isn’t emoting, the shoot is a waste. I agree with that….it is a waste if the girl just stands there or if the girl is giving you those Model 101 poses. It is totally frustrating and debilitating. My viewpoint on the subject is this: If she ain’t got it, she ain’t gonna’ get it. At least not in the 6 hour time frame I need her to be “on”. And maybe because I’m a woman and I’m against berating other women, I just can’t find it in me to be a jerk and start yelling at the model. I feel like the reason why she really can’t emote is because she’s shy or insecure in the first place and screaming at her isn’t going to do anything positive for her already low self esteem. To make the shoot more interesting, I’ll end up moving around the girl myself and shooting at angles that add interest and don’t necessarily need her to emote that strongly. Or, if I have to, I will take her aside and make sure she feels comfortable because maybe someone along the way in production (like the make up artist or the hair stylist) did or said something that upset her so I’ll clear that up so hopefully we can move past it. But when all possible reasons why the girl isn’t emoting have been checked off and she still won’t move, I basically walk away with a shoot that wasn’t all I was expecting. And sometimes I’ll admit, the shoot is a wash. At least in my opinion. More often than not, if it’s a job, I don’t have the final say on the model choice. And while I can tell the client what’s happening, that the girl isn’t moving or emoting, at the end of the day, the client doesn’t really want to hear it they just want results. I try to keep the set lively and happy and positive and pull out what I can from the girl. I’m fairly good at it at this point. But I don’t scream and yell and reduce the model to tears. But I know other photographers that do. While I thought I was taking the higher ground by not being a “screamer”, you can see by the short video from our Fashion Photography Exposed DVD when I interview modeling agent James Charles from Photogenics that he doesn’t necessarily agree with me. He thinks that the girls need to be trained and taught that when they are on set with a photographer they need to give that photographer what they’re looking for. So by all means, you gotta’ do what you need to do, to get the shot. I know that not all of you are working with professional models yet and that the new faces or girls from sites like Model Mayhem can be extra challenging because they too are starting out and may not “know” what emoting even is or how to do it. So here are some “tricks” you can try to get the new girls to open up and start emoting for you: Music One is to ask them if they want to hear a particular kind of music. Ask them if they brought their own iPod or iPhone with their iTunes on it so they can hear the kind of music they like listening to. Music is a great motivator to get people “moving” and happy. It’s a mood elevator. And I use it often to get everyone to loosen up and start enjoying themselves. After all, this job is really supposed to be fun, right? Work with People who are Easy Going Another thing I try to do, and I’m not always in a position to do it, but I try to hire make up, hair and stylists that are relatively easy going and fun to work with. A Diva hair stylist can intimidate a new model like you wouldn’t believe. That won’t help your cause, so try to work with non-Diva-esque people. Humour Another trick is humour. Everybody loves to laugh. So try to get the model to laugh. That will help loosen her up. And lastly, SHOW her what you want. Get up there on the cyc or on the seamless and show her where to put her legs or what expression you’d like her to give. If you feel awkward showing her yourself, gather your mood board or have some pictures on hand so you can show her, “This is what I’m looking for, smile (or frown or wink or snarl) like this girl”. Having a reference point will often set them on the right path. I thought it would be interesting to get your feedback. What do you guys think? Are there any “screamers’ out there that get good results from that? Or do you take the more passive role like myself? What are your thoughts. Let’s keep this age old debate going!! I want to hear from you guys now, how you handle a model who isn’t emoting or moving and let us know some tricks you’ve used in the past that might help other readers get through this dilemma.
The death of TFP? in General Industry
I say, "more power to her". She may want $40 an hour, but that doesn't mean she'll get it. You don't get to set the model's rates, instead the local marketplace gets to set her rates. If she gets that $40 an hour from others, then her rate is justified. If no one pays her that $40 an hour, then she'll drop her rates, possibly down to "TFP". So, if you don't want to pay her, don't. Modeling (and photography) is a competitive business -- stick to the models you can afford. If you can't find a decent enough model to pose for you on a TFP basis, you'll have to consider paying them. Either way, all is right in the world. Also, I believe that we all could stand to learn more about negotiations. Here's your first lesson: The party that names a price first is at a huge disadvantage. She's not going to name her best price first thing -- perhaps she's just leaving herself some wiggle room. Make a counteroffer. What's the worst that could happen? Well, first off, everyone wants to get paid, and if no one asks, no one will get paid. Again, you can only set your own limits -- there's nothing wrong with anyone asking to get paid. I agree -- if you are a relatively inexperienced photographer, sometimes you best option is to work with more experienced models, and yes, that often means paying them. There is no shame in that. Regarding not knowing whether a model is worth it -- well, find out before hand whether she is. What I mean is that you should check references. Get to know your local photographic community. Ask them for references. Share information with them. Share other resources & locations. Do some group projects. Have a potluck get together. After they get to know you & you get to know them, it should be easy to check references. Everything is negotiable. I enjoy paying models, especially traveling models. I can afford it because the donations I accept from my web site covers my photographic expenses, including the modeling fees. So, I pay models, and if they want to use any of the images I post on my web site, that's fine to me. You may have a different opinion, but you can strike your own deals. Where do they get the pictures? Maybe they do TFP with the better photographers and they charge the less experienced models? That's kinda like an unsolicited critique. It's none of your business what you think about the images in a model's portfolio. Your job is to decide whether you want to work with them or not. If you do want to work with them, negotiate an agreement. If you can't reach an agreement, move on. But I repeat, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a model asking to get paid, and there is nothing wrong with you making a TFP counteroffer. Just be polite & respectful, and if the negotiations fail, part ways without pathos. With all due respect -- that's not any of your business. Look -- if you want to become a better, more experienced photographer, you are going to have to take risks, both business & aesthetic risks. If you can't afford to pay models, again, there's no shame in that -- find other ways to compensate models. But publicly complaining about models asking to get paid -- that's not a good start.
The death of TFP? in General Industry
Hi This has probably been discussed before, and ive mentioned on other forums. Years ago it was fairly common for new/amateur models to offer tfp in order to get experience and build up their portfolios. This was great for both photographer and model as both benefitted from the experience. Now though it seems that every model, whether on their first or second shoot or only having been modelling a few months, wants to charge £40 an hour or so to do a shoot. Im all for the good models making a living out of modelling and in their cases its totally valid to charge what the market allows. The problem is that a lot of the models wanting to charge from the beginning is that photographers have no way of building up their experience unless they pay up front, and have no idea if the model is any good or capable of carrying off the shoot. Its such a risk to have to pay over £100 every time you want to arrange a shoot with a model, add in studio fees and expenses and its a very expensive gamble. How are these models getting portfolio pictures? If they are charging then i assume the photographers are not giving them the pictures? or are they? If they are then its a double problem in that the model gets paid twice almost. This isnt to say i wont pay for models, in fact i have a few booked that im happy to pay for, but they have good portfolios and references or have an image that im looking specifically for. I am however disappointed in the amount of models whose portfolios i have looked and thought "you know all they need is a few good pictures instead of those badly shot camera style things they have uploaded", contacted them to offer a shoot, only to get a reponse back along the lines of "i dont do tfp, my rates are listed on the site". Are they getting any work? I guess that maybe the idea is that by charging they appear more professional, or scare away the "guy with camera" brigade, but in honesty the guy with camera types are the ones who probably dont mind paying for models with poor portfolios as they might think this means they get a lot more "freedom" with the model, seeing as they are paying. Maybe im just being grumpy........ but theres no way i can afford to take risks on models who have 4 badly shot pictures on their portfolio (despite thinking that with decent shots they might look really good). Whats the general opinion?
True head shot in General Industry
star, you keep going on about actors and the link i provided was for models. quit referring to actors in this argument and quit trying to "act" as knowing what is required for "models" in markets/genres you obviously know nothing about. you should give some realization that models do in fact need headshots and they are not just exclusive for actors. to think otherwise shows more about your lack of knowledge than mine. where a headshot for a model is most needed (commercial lifestyle) you will notice the most effective are those following the requirements i stated. you also seem to be hung up on the "smile" requirement. here is where that becomes important, it's a pleasing introduction. most often when a new model is accepted they don't have a portfolio and there's nothing to present/leave behind to the client. the first step is usually, "get him/her a headshot so we can have the client add it to their agency book until we can start building a book/comp." the reason for that works two-fold. one, it keeps the agency line of communication open to clients. the introduction of a new model provides a reason to stay front and center with the client rather than being out of sight - out of mind. it's how agencies hustle for business. two, it begins the process for the new model to start building comfort/confidence at the client level and they don't walk into the introduction go-see empty handed. for the more established model working commercial lifestyle more often than not you'll see how the rules i stated have been applied to the headshot on their comp. what you fail to realize is modeling is local, agencies serve local clients. most of those local clients are conservative in nature and their messaging follows that form. with that, sure there may be instances where a more brooding fashion shot might be most applicable when directed to local boutiques, etc., but the vast majority of local work is commercial lifestyle. that's the bread and butter of agency billings, that's what the agencies in mid-major markets are hustling. that is the essence in the model headshot. are they required for other genres? not really, hence why in terms of a "model' headshot where they become most important they should be done correctly per how they will be presented for gaining assignments. that's no different than any other genre presentation, as in getting the imaging done right. is there a difference in an actor headshot and model headshot? absolutely. and considering that difference was the basis for certain requirements for models who might choose to work in a genre where a headshot can be used for competing via freelance vs the agencies. this is also an across the board discussion applicable to more than just major markets (where models are more established and client standards are more wide and varied). what is applicable in the major market backyard does not mean it is applicable in mid-majors. with that said however, one would be hard-pressed to find an established commercial model in any market not presenting what i stated.
Model mayhem as seen on youtube. :P in Photography Talk
Yeah, it does seem a bit awkward given he did say it was for a model portfolio. However, it is not uncommon (like almost every time) for me to get a model to sign a release even for a (model) paid test. The release serves two purposes, I might shoot something I would like to use in my own portfolio. As a professional who uses his portfolio for marketing purposes, I don't like to use unreleased photos. I go over this with the model in advance (explaining why I would like a release), and that I don't (and never have) use paid test photos for commercial purposes (other than personal promotion). I also want the model to give me permission to retouch the images, the release covers that. The second reason for the release is that it serves as my license to the model so that he/she can use the photos! (A photographer's license for use was something not covered in the video). The standard language usually says that the model as consideration for signing the release is allowed to use any of the photos for their own promotion, but may not sell the pictures for commercial use. Obviously I want the model to use the heck out of the pictures to promote his/her career, but I don't want to see them in an advertisement (I charge a lot more for advertising and catalog than I do for a model test). Any release should have a consideration clause which states what of value the model is receiving for signing the release. Use of the photos for their own promotion is considered valuable consideration. So there you go, while it might seem odd to have a release signed by a model who is paying for a test, I have not had a model say they objected to me using images for my own portfolio (a model could object, I suppose). And the consideration arrangement in the release does give the model the license he/she needs to use my images in their own portfolio/composite/website, etc. John -- John Fisher 900 West Avenue, Suite 633 Miami Beach, Florida 33139 305 534-9322
Needing some paid photoshoots in Newbie Forum
Although there are always exceptions to the rule, I personally don't know of any models who have joined MM with no experience, a limited/beginner portfolio, and non-agency-standard measurements who then immediately booked paid work. I apologize if that sounds harsh. . . I'm not trying to be, we all started with no experience and beginner portfolios, I'm just trying to be realistic. Even if you get a few paid jobs as a beginner, they will likely be from hobby photographers and they will be occasional. When I was just starting out, I did get a few paid gigs in my area, but as others have mentioned, they will come from having something unique to offer. The paid work I got at the beginning was generally for bodyscape/figure study work. I am taller and thinner than most models in my area, so I got lucky in that I happen to have a figure that is rare to find, at least in my tiny city. Even with having a figure that was in demand, there's no way I could have paid my bills off of the money I made. Making ends meet by modeling is difficult for girls who have years worth of experience and networking, let alone someone without that. The tricky thing about modeling is that it's not something you can really practice, learn, or otherwise get experience in until you're out there on set. You can't go to college and major in modeling or get a modeling internship. For the most part, the models you'll see here are self-taught. What that means is that it will take you (and everyone else) a while to really finesse your skills. You wouldn't decide to become a writer overnight and then expect to write a New York Times best-selling novel within the next month. You wouldn't decide to become a rock start and then quit your day job and show up looking for a record deal with no musical training. It's the same for modeling, except tougher because there's no official training for models. For most of the models here, our "training" was trade shoot after trade shoot after trade shoot, until the pictures started to look better and better and better. If you're serious about modeling, I'd recommend hiring a great photographer, makeup artist, and wardrobe stylist in your area. This is probably not what you want to hear, because it involves spending money rather than making it. However, what you need before you can make money is a killer portfolio. The quality of your pictures is what gets you hired. If you invest a little time and money into getting a good start, it will pay off for you in the end because people will look at your work, be impressed by it, and then ask for you to work for them. You want only the very best to represent yourself. . . get some killer shots in genre which you'd like to work, then delete anything unprofessional or less flattering from your portfolio. I'm not saying that modeling requires you to spend money. I have never paid a photographer to help me build my portfolio (although now that I've been modeling long enough to get a decent portfolio started, I'm considering it to really bring me to the next level and fill in the gaps where my port is lacking). That said, I have a full time Mon-Fri job and am not relying upon modeling as my main income. Sorry to write you a whole novel, I hope some of it was food for thought! Good luck.
Shooting with TFP models vs. Paid models in Photography Talk
- Page views in general should not be a concern. It doesn't matter if Models get more page views, unless the Model attracts an audience that I want to reach, the vast number of people who see their portfolio is irrelevant to me. The value is relative to my business needs which is my case is specific and very targeted. If the wrong eyeballs are seeing my work, it could be bad for business, especially if I'm targeting and servicing different market segments. - It's not promotion unless the Model PROMOTES the image. Simply giving away the image does not insure this and if there is no assurance that there will be a benefit for giving the Model the image why do it? But I can control where I promote it and insure that the audience that I'm targeting sees my work. I don't need a large number of the wrong people seeing my work, I need more of the right people to actively promote me. That require strategic and measured placement, not a shotgun scattered pellets approach. Generally speaking, a hired Model is less likely want to promote you than a Model that trade or pays you because they have less incentive to promote images than a Model that's traded for them or paid for them. There is no investment in time or money for the hired Model that they need to see a return on. Also, if there are other business considerations, providing images can hurt your business. If you are shooting on spec or for stock or for publication, sharing image from a shoot that you paid a Model is not a practical consideration until those consideration have been addressed or resolved. Then there is the unintended consequences of being "promoted" by a Model that you've hired that has "Paid Assignments Only" in her profile. Occasionally, I still get hit up by Models that think I should be willing to pay them because they assume that my images in a Model's portfolio that has "Paid Assignments Only" in their profile means that I should be willing to pay them, totally ignorant that the images from the shoot likely was a trade shoot. Discretion about compensation says a lot. I will admit that "Paid Assignments Only" in a Model' s profile factors into whether or not I hire a Model because have their images in MY portfolio may encourage the wrong type of Model to contact me and I will have to spend time dealing with them. - If those Photographers feel it's in their interest to provide you images after they've paid you and feel that getting in your portfolio will give them some benefit, I'm not going to knock them. They see a value in pursuing that strategy and if it works for them it works for them. I know the value of my images. I know it's good work and that the Models that value it generally will want to trade or pay me to shoot them.
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